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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.10.22 12:58:00 -
[1]
Somebody came into my mission last night in a Catalyst & started stealing from my wrecks. That is fine I no problems with that-they just go flashing red.
What I have a problem with is when I convo the guy-who rejects the invite-either deliberately or by default. I reach the conclusion that as he just sat in the same position for some minutes he wanted me to shoot at him. Checking his stats he was a fairly new character-an even bigger indicator that the catalyst was a bait ship.
I was in a nicely fitted CNR & the reason for this post is to ask the question if he is flashing red & if I ganked him what could the consequences have been. I'm not too hot on the exploits so wondered if he was in a gang whether I was heading for trouble. I took the view that a well fitted CNR is worth more than some tec1 garbage so I let him carry on with his plan & ignored him. He eventually went away & did not come back despite 5 gates full of salvage.
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lacal
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Posted - 2008.10.22 13:06:00 -
[2]
If he's flashing red to you then you are free to engage him, he did 'steal' from you after all.
However this would give him and his corp kill rights on you, so you need to be very sure that you can win and that his corp mates arent around.
If you were in your mission ship then there is no point in engaging as he can just warp off and he would have 15 minutes to come back and engage you. Of course if you warp off mid mission then he would get aggro from your mission rats :)
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.22 13:15:00 -
[3]
The thing to remember is the chances of someone being a genuine noob when they've scanned you out in a mission, turned up and then started flipping cans or straight up stealing loot is slim to none. On that basis it's safe to assume they know what they're doing and have more PvP experience than you.
They want you to shoot at them, that's why they stole from you in the first place.
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Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.10.22 13:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Durzel The thing to remember is the chances of someone being a genuine noob when they've scanned you out in a mission, turned up and then started flipping cans or straight up stealing loot is slim to none. On that basis it's safe to assume they know what they're doing and have more PvP experience than you.
They want you to shoot at them, that's why they stole from you in the first place.
This. Quite likely.
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lucifers widow
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: lacal If he's flashing red to you then you are free to engage him, he did 'steal' from you after all.
However this would give him and his corp kill rights on you, so you need to be very sure that you can win and that his corp mates arent around.
If you were in your mission ship then there is no point in engaging as he can just warp off and he would have 15 minutes to come back and engage you. Of course if you warp off mid mission then he would get aggro from your mission rats :)
Only he can shoot back as he is flagged as a thief, his corp can't fire in support though they can remote rep him thus making them selves flashy red to you but can't fire on you till you fire on them in that case.
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Wannabehero
Caldari Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.10.22 23:17:00 -
[6]
He steals your stuff -> Flashy Red, you can shoot him (an so can anyone in your corp, assuming player corp)
You shoot him -> You are now flashy red to him, he (an only he) can shoot you back for 15 min.
You blow him up -> har har, you dead n00b, learn not to steal my lootz!
He warps back in a combat vessel specifically designed to fight your CNR -> oh noes! ctrl-q!
You get away -> hide in station 15min
or
You get blown up -> He salvages your equipment from your wreck, saying "har har, you dead noob! I stealing your lootz!"
This is a hypothetical scenario of course, he could just be a true noob, but if you were scanned down in a mission, then the above is far more likely. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
Tyler
Sardaukar Sietch Tabr
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Posted - 2008.10.22 23:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Wannabehero He steals your stuff -> Flashy Red, you can shoot him (an so can anyone in your corp, assuming player corp)
You shoot him -> You are now flashy red to him, he (an only he) can shoot you back for 15 min.
You blow him up -> har har, you dead n00b, learn not to steal my lootz!
He warps back in a combat vessel specifically designed to fight your CNR -> oh noes! ctrl-q!
You get away -> hide in station 15min
or
You get blown up -> He salvages your equipment from your wreck, saying "har har, you dead noob! I stealing your lootz!"
This is a hypothetical scenario of course, he could just be a true noob, but if you were scanned down in a mission, then the above is far more likely.
This.
IMO it is always better not to shoot. Keeps you safe from whatever tricks they could use. OFC, it depends on really how young he was but my first point still stands. If he is there to try and get you to aggress, then if you give him no reaction chances are they will give up and find easier prey.
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Khraunus
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.22 23:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Khraunus on 22/10/2008 23:30:19
Originally by: lacal If he's flashing red to you then you are free to engage him, he did 'steal' from you after all.
However this would give him and his corp kill rights on you, so you need to be very sure that you can win and that his corp mates arent around.
I highlighted what you did wrong. Shooting someone doesn't flag you to their corp. Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature? |
lacal
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Posted - 2008.10.22 23:40:00 -
[9]
Cheers for the correction guys - I didnt know that.
My sole experience has been a 2003 player salvaging/looting in a rifter and hanging around for me to agress him, which I did, but only because I was salvaging in my hurricane that has a webber and warp disruptor fitted - 5 hobgoblins can take out a salvage rigged rifter pretty quickly!!! - I did need to hide for the next 15 minutes tho.
If I was doing it over I would ignore him as we engaged in the same carry on over the same field of wrecks for about an hour and a half, I suppose he was bored!
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AMF2
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Posted - 2008.10.23 04:53:00 -
[10]
A similar thing happened to me about 2 days ago,was just doing a mission and this guy ****s out and starts stealing my stuff and starts blinking red but I just ignored him,killed the last ship and warped to the next pocket, afterwards I came back to salvage what was left of the wrecks and all of them were not touched except for 3-4 or so,I just don't know a) it was a trick so he cold get killrights b)he really was a beginner and did not know the value of dog tags if you sell them in the right place Was the guy in the Catalyst a Minmatar?
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Iced Earth
Caldari Goat Riders Werewolves.
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Posted - 2008.10.23 07:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Iced Earth on 23/10/2008 07:54:23 Look Here and Here
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lacal
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Posted - 2008.10.23 08:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Iced Earth Edited by: Iced Earth on 23/10/2008 07:54:23 Look Here and Here
This is why I thought you were flagged to the corp as well, the second link has the following in it
What happens when you steal
When you take something from a container/wreck that does not belong to you and which you do not have the implicit right to take things from, you will be shown a confirmation dialog asking you if you really want to steal it and warning you of the consequences.
If you choose to go ahead and steal despite the warning, you will be criminal flagged to:
The corporation which the owner of the container/wreck belongs to, if it is not an NPC corporation. The owner of the container/wreck (this is not done if the ownerĘs corporation was flagged).
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Sharina Mallis
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:54:00 -
[13]
If no one can help him (except remote repping)then I would finish the mission and leave him be for that time. Loot what you can and then give him a few volleys. Either he dies or warps off.
If he warps off you have no reason to stay. You can BM a can and come back later. If you think he might be able to kill ya, just wait for the aggro to timeout.
As a former pirate I would not hesitate to shoot him if only for the change that he goes pop.
If you take a shot make sure that you're aligned and at a good range from him. I think it's only fair if you at least try to kill him (the dark side is strong! it keeps pulling me )
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Cece Cline
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Posted - 2008.10.24 11:51:00 -
[14]
Don't shoot unless you are prepared to lose the ship, they didn't accidently pop in there, they are there to get you.
There are very intrigued and sophisticated plans solely dedicated for you to lose that cnr of yours, remote reppers and hot swapping ships in space that makes you a valid target to all of them when your first salvo of cuise missiles are en route to target.
Best thing to do in a situation where there still are rats alive ist to warp out and leave the salvagestealer in the pocket with the rats, the rats drive him away. |
Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.10.24 13:26:00 -
[15]
I was so very tempted to shoot that Catalyst-is it ethical to post the name of the Character to see if he is known?-I cant remember his name off hand but I added him to my address book for later reference.
I doubt whether his catalyst would have survived a volley of 7 cruise missiles but I just wondered what I was letting myself in for so decided it was better to let be & live another day. |
Miss Xs
Caldari Generals Of Destruction Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.24 14:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Miss Xs on 24/10/2008 14:29:59 i beleive CCP has done i big masch of cram out of a simple action
You steal from me i shoot at you <simple> if i die cause you are stronger OR better is ok No argument here.
Some one steal from me what has to do with my or his corp with this ? <simple> My problem i shoot at you if i die cause you are stronger OR better is ok No argument here.
Some one RR the thief CONCORD takes pot shoots at the guy who RR the thief does not makea diffrence if is his corp mate or an neutral / alt same for me that i got the ballz to shoot the thief.
Message to CCP (i know you will never do this but hey) In both cases not bull****e, every action should have a reaction, and the one and only the one who has the ballz to do the first step is responsible for that action.
live or die that is. :)
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Sharina Mallis
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cece Cline Don't shoot unless you are prepared to lose the ship, they didn't accidently pop in there, they are there to get you.
There are very intrigued and sophisticated plans solely dedicated for you to lose that cnr of yours, remote reppers and hot swapping ships in space that makes you a valid target to all of them when your first salvo of cuise missiles are en route to target.
Best thing to do in a situation where there still are rats alive ist to warp out and leave the salvagestealer in the pocket with the rats, the rats drive him away.
I agree with you. However, your scanner is your best friend. Set it to 'close range' to check if his buddies are waiting by the gate to your mission (I know, not all have a gate) and check local.
Never hot swapped a ship but I see what you mean. As I said, just align your ship when your done and fire them cruise missiles at a good distance.
Or get close to him pulling the NPC's with you and warp out.
Finally, you can have an alt cloaked by the entrance of the gate to the mission.
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Joshua Calvert
Caldari Safespot Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:34:00 -
[18]
No, it was a tarp
Peace and love, Josh
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Tiberius Dresari
Caldari UNAS Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert No, it was a tarp
Damn! Beat me to it...
Also, nice name Calvert :D loved that series. |
Metallion1
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Posted - 2008.10.25 13:51:00 -
[20]
There is only one rule is situation .
Rule - Never fire back ...the mission junk is not worth losing your ship for ;) |
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Metallion1
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Posted - 2008.10.25 13:52:00 -
[21]
* in this situation :/ |
annoing
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:27:00 -
[22]
After asking the same type of questions earlier this week, ive developed a new stratagy for dealing with this .... I leave them to flash red and I pop any wreck they fly near. They have nothing to loot, nothing to salvage and therefore, no reason to be there. Worked for me these last 3 days
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Delta Kiri
Delta Innovative Tech and Cat House
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Posted - 2008.10.25 16:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wannabehero He steals your stuff -> Flashy Red, you can shoot him (an so can anyone in your corp, assuming player corp)
You shoot him -> You are now flashy red to him, he (an only he) can shoot you back for 15 min.
You blow him up -> har har, you dead n00b, learn not to steal my lootz!
He warps back in a combat vessel specifically designed to fight your CNR -> oh noes! ctrl-q!
You get away -> hide in station 15min
or
You get blown up -> He salvages your equipment from your wreck, saying "har har, you dead noob! I stealing your lootz!"
This is a hypothetical scenario of course, he could just be a true noob, but if you were scanned down in a mission, then the above is far more likely.
Add to this; he come back in a tank/tackle/ECM ship with buddies that have HACs with remote reppers. He holds you in the mission area until you either clear it or the rats pop you. Yes, the buddies go red-flashy to you. But, they are all a couple years old and have HACs. |
Xavier Zedicus
Zardoz Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.26 01:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: lacal If he's flashing red to you then you are free to engage him, he did 'steal' from you after all.
However this would give him and his corp kill rights on you, so you need to be very sure that you can win and that his corp mates arent around.
If you were in your mission ship then there is no point in engaging as he can just warp off and he would have 15 minutes to come back and engage you. Of course if you warp off mid mission then he would get aggro from your mission rats :)
shouldt give the sert right, however they can RR. |
TechnoButt
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Posted - 2008.11.07 04:15:00 -
[25]
So, apparently I dn't understand aggression as well as I thought. I had a similar situation.
Vexor lands in my mission. He starts flashing red. Sec status is 2.0. He's fairly new. I'm sure it's a trap, and I get ****y and fall for it.
My question is this: If he's flashy red and I havne't set standings against him/corp, I shoot him. Does that give anyone else rights to attack me? He got help, no concord response.
I was under the impression that flashy red only gets rights to attack you, not his friends (unless you attack them or do something else to earn their aggression)?
Did I miss something?
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Jon Neeley001
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:55:00 -
[26]
i was told that if they were fleeted then the theif's fleet had agression rights upon shooting the theif.
can anyone tell me if this is right or wrong?
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TechnoButt
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jon Neeley001 i was told that if they were fleeted then the theif's fleet had agression rights upon shooting the theif.
can anyone tell me if this is right or wrong?
This, essentially, is also my question. I thought they did not get rights, but apparently they do (now at least?).
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Dominatus Crispus
Gallente Nation of Muppets
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Posted - 2008.11.07 19:31:00 -
[28]
ok... lets try tog et this straight..
ok note this before we start... - fleet is irrelivant, as fleet doesn't help or hurt any agreession flags. - this is high sec rules only, there are no rules for low sec.
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player A steals from player B's jetcan or wreck
player A will become flashy red to player B and player B's corp as long as its a private corp and not an npc corp.
This means that player B and his NON-npc corp can now shoot your ship, (not pod)
player A can NOT return fire to anyone unless he is shot upon first. so for example, if player B's corp mate shoots player A, player A can not shoot player B, he can only shot to defend the person agressing him.
if you shoot flashy red player A, he can shoot you.
this agression timer is listed in the upper right hand corner of your client, and it will display ALL the name of people who can shoot you if you mouse over it.
ship death does not end this timer. agression timer is 15 mins. and will restart for each and every act of agressiong wither it is to or from you. ____________________
ravetrax.com ... player owned and operated |
TechnoButt
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Posted - 2008.11.07 20:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dominatus Crispus ok... lets try tog et this straight..
ok note this before we start... - fleet is irrelivant, as fleet doesn't help or hurt any agreession flags. - this is high sec rules only, there are no rules for low sec.
---
player A steals from player B's jetcan or wreck
player A will become flashy red to player B and player B's corp as long as its a private corp and not an npc corp.
This means that player B and his NON-npc corp can now shoot your ship, (not pod)
player A can NOT return fire to anyone unless he is shot upon first. so for example, if player B's corp mate shoots player A, player A can not shoot player B, he can only shot to defend the person agressing him.
if you shoot flashy red player A, he can shoot you.
this agression timer is listed in the upper right hand corner of your client, and it will display ALL the name of people who can shoot you if you mouse over it.
ship death does not end this timer. agression timer is 15 mins. and will restart for each and every act of agressiong wither it is to or from you.
This was not the experience I had last night.
I was in a mission in a Raven (angel mission in .9), Vexor shows up. Vexor does some stuff that makes him flashy red to me.
I open fire, he scram/webs me. I'm like, this looks bad. Did I misunderstand aggression.
Then his buddy shows up and drops drones to assist, and starts pounding me, too. At which point they become flashy red too, obviously. They also assist his armor rep/etc. Not a pretty scene for me (he must be setup to tank explosive due to the angels in the area since he's ninja ratting, as my explosive cruise do little to him, even before his help arrives).
Sad part is that I got well into his hull before I died, but his assistance won the day for him.
Concord takes no action. Pretty soon I'm capless, which means I die fairly easily.
Ah well.. lesson learned. The opportunity to kill is not worth risking a mission boat at risk.
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Lord Anime
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Posted - 2008.11.07 21:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: TechnoButt
I open fire, he scram/webs me. I'm like, this looks bad. Did I misunderstand aggression.
The moment you shot him you got flashy red to him too, the difference is while he's aggressed to your whole corp, you're aggressed only to him.
Originally by: TechnoButt Then his buddy shows up and drops drones to assist, and starts pounding me, too. At which point they become flashy red too, obviously. They also assist his armor rep/etc. Not a pretty scene for me (he must be setup to tank explosive due to the angels in the area since he's ninja ratting, as my explosive cruise do little to him, even before his help arrives).
Something wrong here, if his buddy just shot straight at you he'd be killed by Concord, no ifs and buts (otherwise you could just open a petition and get reimbursed since this would be clearly an exploit). What probably happened is that he remote repped the flashy Vexor, which made him flashy red as well to you. At that point you shot the buddy too, giving him the right to shoot back, and the rest is history.
The lesson here should be quite clear, just never shoot ninja-looters, leave them alone, you don't want that loot anyway...
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