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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
demonfurbie
Minmatar
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:21:00 -
[211]
after talking to some people and looking at it on test it seams to now only be able to fit one link at a time. is that intended cause if so i can sit in an eos and tank the rats kill the rats and give out 3 link bonuses and being able to do all of that with 1 person takes away the need for a belt tanker and role giver so that person can be in a hulk/mack/skiff negating the link bonus that the orca would give out (id be giving out less of a bonus but the gang would be gaining 1 or more miners) and i can fit tractors and a mwd to gather cans if need be.
even with the orcas ability to gather ore for the haulers (who will still be needed to empty it) couldnt the current setup of 1 command ship (tanker/bonus giver/tractor) be better off than the orcas need for a tanker in any belt in less than .5 space.
then there is the added bonus of an eos (sry dont know much about the other races ones it the one i fly) ability to kill the rats for bounty and field shield drones to help the hulks/macks/skiffs if they get aggro.
am i totally off base here or would a command ship be better off than this ship for the role they are trying to fill here. unless the orca has some better stats im not seeing an use for this ship that there isnt already something to fill this role. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:21:00 -
[212]
 Quote:
1 more high slot, and it can fit 3 gang links and a tractor.
Only the one gang link is worth it to be honest. 2 tractors and that link.
Quote:
1 more low slot, and it could be brought to above 120km3 hold.
You get 100km3 + 30km3 corp hangar. There you go.
Quote:
1 more med slot and it could fit a decent shield tank.
Best named XL shield booster(t2 is just more shields no cap difference) + 2 large shield extenders t2. Gives 15000+ shields and perma running xl shield booster. Which is enough to tank the 0.0 rats in fd-
Considering this is kind of meant for high sec... dont even worry about it. Even if you were to get a nasty spawn in 0.0... huge shield buffer gets you away; or gives you plenty of time to use hobgoblins to kill some of the dps and saves you.
Quote:
I'd say 75m3 drone bay and 50mbit bandwith for a flight of Mediums and a flight of mining drones or (lights as replacement).
25m3 for hobs and 25m3 for mining drones t2 is plenty. Again this is meant to be a high sec ship. High sec rats cant hit hard and dont need to be that hard.
Also remember... they are probably going to be nerfing medium drones.
Quote:
No offense to miners, but you already have 3 barges, 3 exhumers, and a capital, not to mention a shipload of specialist modules.
firstly the procuror is a piece of ****. Easily outmined by just about everything. Covetor is nice but by the time you actually can use it... you are mere hours from hulk. So really miners have retreiver and the exhumers.
The capital isnt really that special.
Quote:
The storage is temporary for one reason: it has a ship maintenance array, which means you can pull up next to it with a FREIGHTER and drag the 120,000 m3 of ore into the freighter for hauling.
Can freighters do this? If so... how long until they are removed this allowance?
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The ship maintenance array cannot hold a BS, can this be increased?
This is needed.
Quote:
well, think about it dude. If it has a main cargohold of 30,000 that can be expanded to 90,000 as well as with a corp hangar with a cargohold of 30,000, you can push 180,000 m3. Not to mention a ship maint bay with 400,000 m3 you could put haulers in them and fill them up as well (not sure about the maint bay though, I thought I heard something a while back about an ammunition & charges only rule when having items in a stored ship)
There seems to be different rules for different ships.
Carriers and moms can have any ships and do what they will.
rorqual only allows indys and barges afaik.
Perhaps given the fact that this ship has no jumpdrive will allow this ship to have rigged up iteron 5s full of giant cans which can be filled with whatever.
I should go test :) If we can do this... oh boy that would make it a minifreighter for sure. |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:36:00 -
[213]
Just tested and no it wont work. No assembled cans allowed in ship maintenance.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Aussie Vengeance
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 05:49:00 -
[214]
All this talk about mining and industrial uses is making my head hurt  .
This thing looks to be a nice mobile platform for 0.0 ninja-ratters. Scout an alt flying an Orca out to deeeep 0.0. In the hangars are buckets of ammo, fittings and a few packaged ratting ships. When you get to the desired location, main(s) switch --> ratting ships, the alt is cloaked (or logged) at a safespot, and mains rat away. Once the ratting ship is full of loot (and/or out of ammo), log the alt in, drop loot off, re-arm guns, repeat as required. Ratting ship gets ganked by nasty PvPers? Go back get another. Pod also went pop? You only gotta get a fast ship out, combat ships already in situ. Once you have 30k-90k of loot (!!!) or no more ammo left, return to empire once again using scouts to get you clear.
Additionally, it will be a nice and cheap alternative to a small POS OR carrier replacement for individuals or small groups running 0.0 ops/strikes in hostile territory.... no fuel to run, it's not there (i.e. cloaked or logged) 99.9% of the time so can't be popped..... Those out pewpewing can have replacement ships and ammo waiting close by, can refit their ship in the ship hangar based on the scenario you face......
Obviously these scenarios require the ship hangar to behave like a POS one does now - but I have not seen any evidence to refute this. Will have to check it out in Sisi and see which way the wind blows 
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:09:00 -
[215]
The base capacitor stats look very nice, it does looks like you will be able to park it in a belt, let the npcs aggro you, and let the miners come in, without needing another player to tank on top of the rest.
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Hi Lo
Faulty Solutions
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:29:00 -
[216]
the 50m3 seems alittle small for a mining support ship. Although we don't want to make it a solo mining ship now do we. :S |
Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:29:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Lobster Man on 24/10/2008 06:29:38
Can it generate cynos and/or jump? |
Haclya
Caldari
The Red Ring
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Posted - 2008.10.24 06:32:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Haclya on 24/10/2008 06:33:03
wow only need more slots 1 Med 1 high but really a good ship.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:08:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Aussie Vengeance
Obviously these scenarios require the ship hangar to behave like a POS one does now - but I have not seen any evidence to refute this. Will have to check it out in Sisi and see which way the wind blows
Ya and you can even give fleet members access to the corp hangar. So dont even matter what rights they have for corp.
Yes the cloak factor will be special. Having a megathron or raven or whatever... who has free high slots to fit a cloak for 0.0 actions will be best. |
Clarence X
Enlightened Research and Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:11:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Pater Deus
Wouldn`t it be great to have a 125M3 dedicated mining drone bay? Heavy mining drones would be superb to have. I pray to the Gods of CCP to eventually redeem themselves and surprise us EVE mortals with real T2 mining drones in a near future, not the whimpy T2 ones we now have to use.
A Mining Command Ship (Orca) pilot will still lack this skills:
- Drone Foreman
- Drone Director
- Advanced Mining Drone Interfacing
- Heavy Mining Drones
and a ship with a Dedicated Heavy Mining Drone bay
and only then Drone Mining Augmentor Rigs will give real benefit$ and payback for our inve$tment.
Last but not least, 70kms range of tractor beams and 125kms survey scanner range? Am I missing something or are we to see double sized belts in high sec?
I really like the idea of a ship using new, enhanced mining drones and skills to great advantage. It could be a role for the orca, but may be another ship to develop as well -- a huge drone tender for mining fleets. It could assign it's drones to the hulks and the drones would harvest to the hulk with their attributes depending on the hulk pilots skills. The hulk is just not designed to carry and deploy these new-fangled drones from the brilliant minds of Creodron and ORE Engineers. |
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:12:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Lobster Man
Edited by: Lobster Man on 24/10/2008 06:29:38
Can it generate cynos and/or jump?
You can fit a cyno generator on basically everything... there's no jumpdrive. |
FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:39:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 23/10/2008 20:27:27
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Also, for an ORE ship, the skills are right where they should be, the rorqual requires barges V as well
The rorqual requiring Mining Barge V is also a mistake. if you have mining skills you should be mining, haulers should require a different skillset regardless of what faction they belong to.
The only significant change I can endorse is renaming the skill to "ORE Vessels" or something similar, as ORE has expanded significantly over the years and has become somewhat more varied than just mining barges
Or make it generic "Industrial V".
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:40:00 -
[223]
Nice addition. I personally think the skills should be a smidge more intensive.
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ight8
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:41:00 -
[224]
I really like the idea of the new ship, it's been a long time coming and it's due. The Rorqual is valuable because it can jump fearful miners into low sec and give them a some rat protection while making some nice isk. Instead you've given the Orca a pathetic tank, (3 mid slots?) an even more pathetic drone bay, (50 m/3) and a useless corp hanger. This pathetic concept is a kick to the groin of any miner. This ship does not carry on the concept of getting out of high sec and finding good ore. You should in fact be giving the orca a battleship tank, kill the hanger for a better drone bay, and give it some strip miners! at least then miners will be more apt to go into low-sec / 0.0 and chance something for a change. I sincerely hope you reconsider and help to bridge the gap between high sec miners and low sec miners. Other then that, thanks but no thanks, I already have an obelisk.
 Try this, 6 high slots, 6 mid slots, a battleship tank, a Dominix drone capacity, and bonuses to shield transport and drone damage. yeah it's a super hulk, but no hulk could ever stand up to a battleship for very long and still mine enough ore to make the hazard < reward.
 Otherwise tritanium prices in high sec are gonna drop to a point where you may as well give away the ships free. just like ice prices when you made concord respond faster.
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Clarence X
Enlightened Research and Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.24 07:56:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian
I dont have an alteration suggestion... but just a question.
The Hulk has 4 midslots, why does this have only 3?
Hulk has T2 resists as well. The Orca needs to tank at least as well as a Hulk.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:11:00 -
[226]
That seems pretty solid ship. 90k m3 max cargobay is a bit lower than expected, but on the other hand it makes it up with 'battleship like' agility. Also ship maintenance array is nice addition - not big enough for battleships ofc, but one can drag several fitted HAC's around with it so it's definately step forward. |
Gedhay
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:12:00 -
[227]
i wold sugest 4 slots on high and the posibility to activate 3 gang moduls at once 
but it's just my opinion... |
MidNite247
Caldari
Tacos Revolution
Morsus Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:22:00 -
[228]
i love the thing and its not out yet :) |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar
Meltd0wn
iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:23:00 -
[229]
Oh, and just noticed, it doesn't need Capital Corporate Hangar Bay components to build, but has one. Intended? |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:36:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Clarence X
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian
I dont have an alteration suggestion... but just a question.
The Hulk has 4 midslots, why does this have only 3?
Hulk has T2 resists as well. The Orca needs to tank at least as well as a Hulk.
Look at the capacitor stats. The Orca already outtank the Hulk because it can afford to run large or even XL shield boosters.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:38:00 -
[231]
8 week base ME research time? Don't most other things have a longer PE than ME research ?
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:49:00 -
[232]
My biggest worries about this ship is the small hold, ~90k is filled in a few minutes with a resonable skilled group of miners.
This also means you have no low slots left so it will need to trust it's shields for protection which on an ORE tech 1 ship are about as useful as bringing the Pax Amarria to a minmatar slave rally. If you ad to that the ships obvious size and slugish movement you have a huge big fat sitting duck, certainly because it's price and required skills does not make it a likely participant on 1.0 mining ops. It will mostly be operated in 0.5 to 0.1 where pirates and even normal rats will have to be totaly drunk and blind to be able to miss it.
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Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Dark water
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Posted - 2008.10.24 08:53:00 -
[233]
Nice ship but....
Drone bay to small and not enough bandwidth to put out 5 med drones???
the hulk can put out that much so why a bigger ship without the ability to do at least the same?
will it be able to compress ore as does it's bigger brother the rorqual?
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:01:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Ralitge boyter
My biggest worries about this ship is the small hold, ~90k is filled in a few minutes with a resonable skilled group of miners.
This also means you have no low slots left so it will need to trust it's shields for protection which on an ORE tech 1 ship are about as useful as bringing the Pax Amarria to a minmatar slave rally. If you ad to that the ships obvious size and slugish movement you have a huge big fat sitting duck, certainly because it's price and required skills does not make it a likely participant on 1.0 mining ops. It will mostly be operated in 0.5 to 0.1 where pirates and even normal rats will have to be totaly drunk and blind to be able to miss it.
0.5 to 0.1 mining? Trust me, this won't be used for mining there, as there is seriously no real reason to mine in low-sec. This ship will pretty much be useful anywhere large scale mining takes place, be that in safe empire, or safe 0.0.. but there is NO reason to take it to low-sec. |
Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:07:00 -
[235]
Anyone know when CCP start work, cause I'm looking forward to dev responses to see if this already great ship can get better. |
Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:09:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Miyamoto Uroki on 24/10/2008 09:11:51
Orca got very cool looks, here are my requests:
- give it enough drone bay, lets say 75m¦ with 75 bandwith, so it can deploy 3 sentry drones and take care of any high sec rats that are around prior to rats reaching noob miners with fragile ships in your mining op
- ore compression. The orca doesn't replace haulers really, which is semi-optimal. I won't say it have to replace all haulers needed, but at least give us the possibility so it can compress the ore to one or two haulers sufficient. Skilled miners with orca bonus will fill the orcas cargohold in no time, so thats not even considered a buffer.
- in terms of tanking it doesn't need much as this ship is designed for high sec. If you want a mining command ship in 0.0, get yourself a rorqual...
About half the tanking abilities of a hulk would be sufficient to tank high sec npc spawns forever
- skill requirements. This ship is not really a pure mining addition. It's mainly a transport ship with the added bonus of mining gang assist modules. With mining barge 5 as prerequisite you are removing a miner from the mining op as that pilot would be better off in a hulk. Make it transport ships 5 instead or something like that. |
adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:32:00 -
[237]
WHOOOOO! yay! hauling of rigged ships
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Clarence X
Enlightened Research and Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:44:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Clarence X on 24/10/2008 09:45:57
Let's debunk the orca as a tool designed for high-sec only. If the Rorqual didn't miss on a couple of its' designed null sec roles, then I might be willing to relegate the Orca to a purely hi-sec existence. As it is, it needs to fill the roles that the Rorqual misses for us miners in dangerous areas. There are also lots of high sec voices in this thread that don't appreciate the rigors of null sec mining or moving vulnerable ships in lawless space.
Mining, to me, is all about efficiency. Hulks and hulk pilots must stay in belts. Lasers must stay on and targets must move on to new roids. Commanders and their gang links need to stay in belts and tank the rats while their bonuses stay active. All this so that actual yield per hour approaches max theoretical yield per hour. The inefficient role is hauling. Nobody makes an account to just be a hauler for a 0.0 mining crew. When a noob chooses to be a hauler, he does not aspire to be a hauler for his entire career. I want a ship that combines command and hauling in the right manner.
My personal mining crew is a max director and 2 near-max hulk pilots. All 3 can haul, but this drastically cuts their productivity per hour. When I heard about the Orca, I wanted it to be a relatively affordable mining command ship for my director so he can retire his vulture and so the gang could haul their ore more efficiently. If it had tank, super tractor beams, sufficient ore capacity and could fit in a rorqual to stage remote mining ops, I would be happy.
I think the orca as outlined in the dev blog falls short of this role. The capacity of the holds means we only compress 3 hauler trips into 1. I can't afford a command ship that is warping back and forth every 20-30 minutes, dropping its bonuses and leaving the hulks and drones to endure the change in rat agro. I expected that this ship would end up with about the capacity of a jump freighter, minus the jump of course. If it came in around 250k m3 max for an ore-specific hangar, I could clear most belts of the ore I mine and then warp out, unload and restage the crew in a new belt which means no real lost productivity.
Another issue I have with it as-revealed is that it won't fit in a rorqual or carrier for remote deployment. It will be supporting the mining crew -- it has to go with them in the same manner that the hulks go -- in the belly of the jump beast.
It also seems a bit pricey for its cargo size and for its risk vs reward ratio. The rorqual misses because its just too expensive to risk in belts, which also neuters its' tractor beam systems. I am not sure how many people will risk even a 400 mil ship in low and null sec belts.
I was concerned about the lack of mid slots for the tank, but if the cap is sufficiently vigorous, as has been pointed out, then 3 slots should be ok.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.24 09:48:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Aussie Vengeance
All this talk about mining and industrial uses is making my head hurt .
This thing looks to be a nice mobile platform for 0.0 ninja-ratters. Scout an alt flying an Orca out to deeeep 0.0. In the hangars are buckets of ammo, fittings and a few packaged ratting ships. When you get to the desired location, main(s) switch --> ratting ships, the alt is cloaked (or logged) at a safespot, and mains rat away. Once the ratting ship is full of loot (and/or out of ammo), log the alt in, drop loot off, re-arm guns, repeat as required. Ratting ship gets ganked by nasty PvPers? Go back get another. Pod also went pop? You only gotta get a fast ship out, combat ships already in situ. Once you have 30k-90k of loot (!!!) or no more ammo left, return to empire once again using scouts to get you clear.
Additionally, it will be a nice and cheap alternative to a small POS OR carrier replacement for individuals or small groups running 0.0 ops/strikes in hostile territory.... no fuel to run, it's not there (i.e. cloaked or logged) 99.9% of the time so can't be popped..... Those out pewpewing can have replacement ships and ammo waiting close by, can refit their ship in the ship hangar based on the scenario you face......
Obviously these scenarios require the ship hangar to behave like a POS one does now - but I have not seen any evidence to refute this. Will have to check it out in Sisi and see which way the wind blows
That sounds like a *really* awesome idea tbh.
My only concern is really the lack of a jump drive. Good luck getting an Orca trough 0.0 unharmed.
However, it does have a considerable better cargo hold(Both in terms of actual ship maint. and actual cargohold), but that's a tradeoff obviously.
For my personal ninja-ratting I would still prefer paying double price and get a carrier. However, it's *still* lots more skill consuming than an Orca. |
Kina Putten
Amarr
Coalition of Nations
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Posted - 2008.10.24 10:13:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Kina Putten on 24/10/2008 10:13:44
Originally by: Icarus Starkiller
One thing, CCP, please I beg of you.... this ship is pretty snazzy, but you're missing something!
CANNOT BE TRAINED/FLOWN IN NUUB CORPS!
CANNOT BE FLOWN IN NPC CORPS!
Period, gods get these things out of the NPC corps or you'll have one parked at every belt in highsec with 3 miner II's fitted!!!
THIS MAN, GIVE HIM A MEDAL
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