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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Corp Quas
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 19:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Corp Quas on 24/10/2008 19:51:54
Quote: Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
I swear to you CCP if you mess this up in any way you will lose at least 6 more accounts. This is primarily only catering to the roaming PvP pilots. There are far more people that need local to work as-is to enjoy this game. Changing it will be a drastic "last straw" change and you will lose alot of players.
In 0.0 as we get intel of hostile gangs via local we can form defence gangs to prepare. With the proposed changes roaming gangs will have ultimate power over 0.0 space. There will not be defence gangs because no one will even know any hostiles are there until it is too late.
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Good Sir
Gallente The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.24 19:59:00 -
[2]
Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it. |
Corp Quas
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:05:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
Apparently you dont even know much about the onboard scanner as it has no way to show friend or foe.
Also, having to click the scanner every 2 seconds while i'm already doing 10 other things isnt exactly a balance. |
Darth Worm
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:05:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Darth Worm on 24/10/2008 20:06:31 I have to say this is the type of change that would ruin this game. Way to drastic of a change when there is nothing wrong with the current local status. I can't even think of any positives for this only negatives. Unless you think about the fact that you will get a lot of free kills.
Negatives - I am sure there are more than this 1. Intel would be hard to come by when you could march a 300 man gang across the universe undetected unless someone sees them on overview 2. It would take forever to find someone because you would have to scan down each system you go in. Its already hard enough to scan people down when you know they are in local. 3. You would absolutely kill off most ways of people making isk...No one would want to mine or rat when they have no warning if hostiles are around or can't watch local. No one wants to die with no warning at all. This is a space ship game for Gods sake. Having to press the scan button over and over and over is really weak for an advanced space ship game.
Positives - I can't think of any positives except if you are a pvp'r. It will still take you a long time to scan down people but at least when you do it will be a free kill with no warning for your victim.
I agree with Corp Quas.....this is to drastic of a change. If you can't name more positives than negatives to any change it should be re-thought. You will lose my 4 accounts if you make this change without thinking this threw properly.
WHO WANTS TO HIT THE SCAN BUTTON A MILLION TIMES WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY MINING OR RATTING IN AN ADVANCED SPACE SHIP GAME!!!!
Uncle Worm |
Moostang
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Corp Quas Edited by: Corp Quas on 24/10/2008 19:51:54
Quote: Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
I swear to you CCP if you mess this up in any way you will lose at least 6 more accounts. This is primarily only catering to the roaming PvP pilots. There are far more people that need local to work as-is to enjoy this game. Changing it will be a drastic "last straw" change and you will lose alot of players.
In 0.0 as we get intel of hostile gangs via local we can form defence gangs to prepare. With the proposed changes roaming gangs will have ultimate power over 0.0 space. There will not be defence gangs because no one will even know any hostiles are there until it is too late.
I agree. This would be an E.L.E. when it comes to my time in eve.
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Vim
Spook Division
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:12:00 -
[6]
thank god for lowsec missions is all I say then.
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Aero Zolic
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:14:00 -
[7]
I don't know. It seems to me that when you get bored there in CCP you come up with a new stupid idea and run to test it out. Maybe ask people first? Is this idea really coming from people living in 0.0? I don't think so to be honest. If it's not an idea from people actually living in 0.0 then please don't even consider it, ok?
Drop that idea and you're doing a huge favor for 0.0 and yourself.
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Isek
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:16:00 -
[8]
Why not just put up an option in the chat windows. nr.1: See everyone on local. Nr.2: Only see those who are writing in local. Nr.3: (don't know, maybe something else). (default setting = Nr.2)
Just a thought.
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Diehard Si
UK1 Zero G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:21:00 -
[9]
i hadn't realised they were doing this.
Should of been done ages ago imo, how silly is it being able to see who is in system just by landing in it.
the isk farmers going to hate it though. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Corp Quas
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
Apparently you dont even know much about the onboard scanner as it has no way to show friend or foe.
Why not ask in Local? Or in the intel/corp/alliance channel? Don't know how to setup channels?
Originally by: Corp Quas Also, having to click the scanner every 2 seconds while i'm already doing 10 other things isnt exactly a balance.
Almost every request to CCP to remove Local as an intel collecting tool talks about buffing the ship's scanner to assume the current Local's intel gathering functionality, though at a limited range. CCP devs themselves have stated that this is the way they plan to go.
The new intel tool would provide the essential information, but without the current Local's omnipotence. How hard is that to understand?? |
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:35:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Georn on 24/10/2008 20:37:15 Where did you get that Quote?
Edit: found it http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=905941 |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:44:00 -
[12]
Dear Chicken Licken.
The lack of free intel will swing both ways. Tools already exist for you to forewarn yourself of an approaching hostile. Never fly anything that you cannot afford to lose.
Now if you'll excuse me I have acorns to throw. |
Corp Quas
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Razin
Why not ask in Local? Or in the intel/corp/alliance channel? Don't know how to setup channels?
Almost every request to CCP to remove Local as an intel collecting tool talks about buffing the ship's scanner to assume the current Local's intel gathering functionality, though at a limited range. CCP devs themselves have stated that this is the way they plan to go.
The new intel tool would provide the essential information, but without the current Local's omnipotence. How hard is that to understand??
Omnipotence? I think not. It only shows people in the solar system not where in the system they are. Even if it was Omnipotence you're wanting to change it to Oblivious so that it requires alot more effort, time, personel to do even the simpliest of 0.0 activities somewhat safe.
Good pvp'ers can still get plenty of kills with local being what is currently is. Removing local will create a blackhole of oblivious gank fests that will cause CCP's bottom dollar/profit to fall because I know my 6 accounts will not be the only ones to go. |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:47:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 24/10/2008 20:51:41 Edited by: Crackzilla on 24/10/2008 20:50:42
Originally by: Darth Worm Negatives - I am sure there are more than this 1. Intel would be hard to come by when you could march a 300 man gang across the universe undetected unless someone sees them on overview
Could put scouts on the gates. The 300 man gang doesn't know precisely what they're up against as they might run into a small gate camp that turns into a 400 man gate camp. So this cuts both ways.
Originally by: Darth Worm
2. It would take forever to find someone because you would have to scan down each system you go in. Its already hard enough to scan people down when you know they are in local.
However most space is a wasteland. Local with perfect intel can render the space of hundreds of au's worthless because hostiles know there is some one in there.
Macro ratters would be impacted. This would make ninja ratting easier. Some tactics would allow for a battleship to rat so that a covops/recon would be needed to have a chance of catching it. Of course looting etc would be difficult and popping your wrecks all important.
The up shot is that pvp'ers would find more targets. Ratters would have more space to hide in. This would be mostly about tactics and technique.
Might change some stuff and make an assault frig the best ratting ship due to its ability to escape a hostile fleet bouncing in a belt.
Originally by: Darth Worm
3. You would absolutely kill off most ways of people making isk...No one would want to mine or rat when they have no warning if hostiles are around or can't watch local.
And war decs would be more dangerous. Either way it'll drive numbers to empire mining/missioning.
But there are ways to make isk. Most it is about technique. I suspect most pve ships would carry cloaks. Likely also a huge recon buff.
Originally by: Darth Worm Having to press the scan button over and over and over is really weak for an advanced space ship game.
I would hope if the scanner were to autorefresh when on screen. So you could configure it, then wait for something to pop up.
Originally by: Corp Quas Omnipotence? I think not. It only shows people in the solar system not where in the system they are.
if hostiles know where folks are with limit options to leave, there isn't anywhere to go. There isn't any way to hide in system and be productive. It is all about who is willing to log off longer or go afk longer.
Originally by: Corp Quas
Good pvp'ers can still get plenty of kills with local being what is currently is. Removing local will create a blackhole of oblivious gank fests that will cause CCP's bottom dollar/profit to fall because I know my 6 accounts will not be the only ones to go.
"Good pvp'ers" mostly gank fools. Some farm npcs. Others farm those farming npcs. Not much different than today. What will keep people alive are tactics and being prepared.
Not sure this is positive or negative. It is interesting.
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Bobbechk
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.10.24 20:50:00 -
[15]
could still show numbers and i'd be fine =)
(apart from the fact that theres still lvl 3-4 missions in highsec)
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Ashley Thomas
Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:14:00 -
[16]
wait, whats this, local got nerfed? is it true? /me does happy dance |
DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:14:00 -
[17]
i mean this will be funny a long time ago i got an bug that doesnt show me the local and that was not bad i lost my ship but there is an chance given to make better fights like a game without wallhack....
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Dear Chicken Licken.
The lack of free intel will swing both ways. Tools already exist for you to forewarn yourself of an approaching hostile. Never fly anything that you cannot afford to lose.
Now if you'll excuse me I have acorns to throw.
Dear fellow player.
Two seconds of thinking indicate that your reasonning is deeply flawed.
While both sides are theorically going blind, the pvper has a good idea where to find a ratter, since systems with a decent number of belt aren't that common.
And the main tool of forewarning, the scanner, is not meant for extensive use. First because of limited range, you could very well see an hostile coming and already run out of time to align and warp out. Second, do you really see yourself clicking refresh on the scanner every five seconds, for literally hours?
If this goes live, I'll take the most-profitable-over-long-term-use route, and go grind missions in high-sec, and do only pvp in 0.0. Most will do the same, and a few weeks later people like you will complain about lacking targets.
Removing local without greatly improving scanners first would be ever dumber that the remote doomsday crap. |
Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
You win the thread. |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shadowsword While both sides are theorically going blind, the pvper has a good idea where to find a ratter, since systems with a decent number of belt aren't that common.
The pvper has the element of surpise while the ratter can use scouts. It'll take more time for the pvper to check the belts. Likely the pvper warps to zero.
Originally by: Shadowsword
the scanner, is not meant for extensive use.
Scanner isn't practical for this agreed. CCP has said that the scanner would be updated to provide limited information. It might be something like the overview showing those on grid, however the range might be something like 12au. The scanner would update just like the overview shows who is on grid.
Originally by: Shadowsword
First because of limited range, you could very well see an hostile coming and already run out of time to align and warp out. Second, do you really see yourself clicking refresh on the scanner every five seconds, for literally hours?
If I were doing something that put me at risk then I might bother. Otherwise technique wins.
Create safe spots so that I warp to a snipe spot. Snipe the rats. Warp out. Use a smaller fast ship to loot. It'll take recons or cov ops to get kills. If the bs aligns quickly and varies the safe spots the ratter will have a decent chance.
Otherwise small ships will be better for ratting.
And consider that CCP wants to remove fixed belts. So rather then 12 belts on overview, the belts must be located via exploration.
Originally by: Shadowsword
If this goes live, I'll take the most-profitable-over-long-term-use route, and go grind missions in high-sec, and do only pvp in 0.0.
I agree that most people will over react. I also agree that empire mission running is a better way to make isk now.
Originally by: Shadowsword few weeks later people like you will complain about lacking targets.
If ratters/miners are paying attention than roamers should have _zero_ kills now. Most kills are due to someone having poor technique or doing something silly.
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/10/2008 21:37:53
Originally by: Darth Worm Edited by: Darth Worm on 24/10/2008 20:08:16 Edited by: Darth Worm on 24/10/2008 20:06:31
WHO WANTS TO HIT THE SCAN BUTTON A MILLION TIMES WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY MINING OR RATTING IN AN ADVANCED SPACE SHIP GAME!!!!
Uncle Worm
I think CCP has very clearly shown in the past that they do not like "free" isk in any form, or unbalanced combat.
You mining in a raven ratting with a cloak, and warping whenever local jumps is NOT freaking balanced in any shape or form.
GET RID OF ACTIVE LOCAL CHAT NOW!
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Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Koyama Ise on 24/10/2008 21:47:20
------ FIX THE BLOODY OVERVIEW ALREADY! SPEED NERF! RUN FOR THE HILLS! |
Beep BeepCLick
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:49:00 -
[23]
i like the ideal of the Easy Intel local going away but there needs too be something better then scanner smashing all day.
So before you kill local add tools that replace the job it does.
long lasting sentry probes that send reports too your ship of ships going by it. all should should come with a cheap version built in. the better ones taking a Slot too use. we got FoF system in eve now ( red minus or Blue Plus) that could also be added too the report.
the ship scanner could Auto run so you know whats around you at 14 AU.
many more things need too be done before Local takes the Nerf bat. |
whisk
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:51:00 -
[24]
BEST CHANGE EVER |
Jason Rockefeller
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Posted - 2008.10.24 21:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Darth Worm Edited by: Darth Worm on 24/10/2008 20:08:16 Edited by: Darth Worm on 24/10/2008 20:06:31 I have to say this is the type of change that would ruin this game. Way to drastic of a change when there is nothing wrong with the current local status. I can't even think of any positives for this only negatives. Unless you think about the fact that you will get a lot of free kills.
Negatives - I am sure there are more than this 1. Intel would be hard to come by when you could march a 300 man gang across the universe undetected unless someone sees them on overview 2. It would take forever to find someone because you would have to scan down each system you go in. Its already hard enough to scan people down when you know they are in local. 3. You would absolutely kill off most ways of people making isk...No one would want to mine or rat when they have no warning if hostiles are around or can't watch local. No one wants to die with no warning at all. This is a space ship game for Gods sake. Having to press the scan button over and over and over is really weak for an advanced space ship game.
Positives - I can't think of any positives except if you are a pvp'r. It will still take you a long time to scan down people but at least when you do it will be a free kill with no warning for your victim.
I agree with Corp Quas.....this is to drastic of a change. If you can't name more positives than negatives to any change it should be re-thought. You will lose my 4 accounts if you make this change without thinking this through properly.
WHO WANTS TO HIT THE SCAN BUTTON A MILLION TIMES WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY MINING OR RATTING IN AN ADVANCED SPACE SHIP GAME!!!!
Uncle Worm
I completely agree. CCP, a move like this would be what I refer to as a "game killer". The first game I experienced this with was Star Wars Galaxies. Having moved on from that game and found a new game to love and enjoy, I sincerely hope that you do not make a move such as the one described above to kill this game I enjoy so much.
As Darth said, this has no real pros. Even for someone who enjoys hunting people down it means you will have to warp into a system not knowing if someone is there, spend no telling how much time checking to see if someone is there, and tracking down whatever is (or isn't) in that system. Even if you do find that there is someone there, they may have picked up scan probes on their ship scanner and warped away.
Another point Darth makes, this kills the two main ways pilots make money in the game, A) Mining and B) Ratting / Running Plexes. What is the point in trying to do either of these when there is no way of knowing whether or not it is safe to do so. Is it worth risking 100+ million ISK ships for this? It isn't for me.
My two accounts will be gone along with many more I am sure if a change of this magnitude is made.
J Rock
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Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:00:00 -
[26]
Argh, the whining.
Get a buddy to patrol the gates for you. It's not a solo game.
If you can't manage that, odds are you actually aren't ready to be in the space you're in.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: whisk BEST CHANGE EVER
/signed
At least scouting will be real profession not just some alt sitting in ibis in one place waiting to get popped. You want eyes on hostile fleeT? get more than 1 covops to follow em coz you might lose em easily.
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Vim
Spook Division
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:30:00 -
[28]
Patroling the gates means to split profits. =missions in empire far far safer thank you :) Lets not forget trading, lets not forget ppl that already made all the isk they need or whom sell gtcs and have no need to fund their pvp fun and would be delighted to prey upon thoose of us not so fortunate with isk or rl cash.
We shall see, if ccp makes something as good as local. Fine fine. I see increased blobage, if you know its a 5 man gang, you dont need to bring a hundred.
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5n4keyes
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:39:00 -
[29]
This is a bad bad feature, and heres why!
From now on, to check local people will just keep hitting scan.
Now I cant imagine how much server load a single scan would do, but i can imagine people pressing it atleast once every 30 seconds.
Even 10,000 people doing this... thats 20,000 scans that didnt exist before now going to happen.
I cant imagine at a time when were trying to lower the number of requests to the server, CCP are going to want to implement something thats going to undo peoples work!
Something that would be a little more acceptable, is if local updates once every 1 minute, keeps the roamers happy, and would probably save on some server requests! |
Seishomaru
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:59:00 -
[30]
pff peopel as usuall blind to their own belly.
Local nerf is not a boost to roamign and pirates and a nerf to ratters. Its balanced.
Because the pirates also do not know that you are in local so they need more time to check whole dam system. That makes much easier to stay hidden and avoid them as well.
More important a solo ship has a better chance of not being dectected than a giant blob. So this is a boost for small gangs against blobs! Finnaly
This will be THE best and most important change ever.
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