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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |

Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:37:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Xe na Edited by: Xe na on 28/10/2008 14:17:45 I like that idea, it will stop the:"uhm they have more ppl in local we better leave"
That is exactly why its a ridiculous change.Because it encourages the random brainless people hoping to get a fight with the odds 5 to 1 in their favor...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |

Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:27:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Xe na Edited by: Xe na on 28/10/2008 14:17:45 I like that idea, it will stop the:"uhm they have more ppl in local we better leave"
That is exactly why its a ridiculous change.Because it encourages the random brainless people hoping to get a fight with the odds 5 to 1 in their favor...
There is nothing wrong with people wanting to get 5:1 advantages in fights, the 1 is just a person that failed :) And people ratting without scouts and good intel, in 0.0 in a non-pvp worthy ship, should die! Griefing careless ratters is a very viable tactic and fun too. The fact that this can happen is a clear indication of lack of teamwork on the part of the carebear who is probably just leeching his space access for personal gain anyway...
Seriously, we've killed so many ratters that think its okay to fit a racial tank in 0.0, have no mods that can tackle etc. it is not okay. 0.0 is an asset and its dangerous, defend it...
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Hugh Jassole
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:00:00 -
[273]
I'm undecided about this change. But one thing is for sure:
Before they put this change in, something needs to be about AFK cloakers. Already bad enough to have them when you KNOW they're in system, never sure when they'll come back to gank. But if you can't even tell if they're in local? Zero way of knowing. Scanner is empty b/c they're cloaked, local is gone unless they feel chatty. Is garbage.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:33:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Tnam Much of 0.0 is much too safe,
This is why there's no one in highsec running level 4's.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:37:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Tnam we've killed so many ratters that think its okay to fit a racial tank in 0.0, have no mods that can tackle etc. it is not okay.
That part is perfectly ok.
Its the bit about being careless is why they die. Everyone mocks a careless ratter/miner.
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Freakdevil
Phantom Squad Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.29 23:51:00 -
[276]
Local should never have been provided IMHO. Gameplay is too static and predictable. Usual blob mentality applies. I have seen this attitude prevail gangs and people just log rather than look for options. Make people work for their meals.
If CCP really wants to take bold steps. Elminate local, provide more chokepoints into systems with more randomness and maybe just maybe more people will leave their level 4 safety net.
Oh and increase the attractiveness of low sec.
Just my .02
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rciq
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:14:00 -
[277]
Dumb carebear whiners. Local was a total mistake since the beginning. Still I agree that spamming "scan" is far from comfort. If the local is gone, the scanner must get a change soonÖ. |

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.30 00:20:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Borgholio
I honestly can't imagine a situation where a 300 or 400 man fleet should be allowed to evade detection. Even if you consider smaller gangs or solo pilots, it'd completely change how the game is played. It would make certain kinds of activities such as mining and ratting very dangerous since a hunter would know just to search the belts one at a time, while the prey would be oblivious to someone entering the system.
That would be the point of making such a change.
A large fleet has all the right to be able to evade detection if the opposing force does not field adequate scout teams.
One hopes that the new scanning tools would allow sufficiently (but no too) early warning of a possible hostile in proximity. Mining and ratting are currently almost completely risk-free.
now somethign that must be tuned is. MAke way that smaller gangs have more chance of passing by undetected tahn large gangs.. why? because this creates for the very first time a drawback on beign on a blob!
IF the scan is changed so that its much easier to detect a large fleet, but very small gangs have more chance of not beign detected, taht would really HELP gerrilha warfare! Then CCp coudl achieve their promisse to not let eve become a blob online game. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.10.30 01:31:00 -
[279]
What about making blobs easier to scan out while small gangs are more difficult? I assume if local goes we'll get a scanner with a slightly bigger radius, maybe 20 AU. It would be nice if it were graphical and displayed transponder signals (ie: red for bad standing, gray for nuetral, blue for friendly.)
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.30 01:35:00 -
[280]
I am against this change:
1) PvP is hard enough to find in EvE without hitting a pos. 2) Patroling your space in 0.0 becomes impossible. 3) Farmers will have a field day - they already have cloaks that make it very very hard to find people, this only makes them stronger. 4) Lack of intel means people will camp/bait even more.
Yes, local should not be an intelligence gathering tool - but to remove it is to make pvp even more rare then it already is. As it stands, traveling 30+ jumps for a fight gets old fast. Low and High sec pvp is all but dead already anyway. So all in all, this change will reduce the number of fights - and I think thats a bad thing. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
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mamolian
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 02:11:00 -
[281]
Meh this game is going to **** tbh.. CCP send us a please resubscribe email when you figured your **** out. -----------
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Elder Langley
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Posted - 2008.10.30 17:41:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Pac SubCom Edited by: Pac SubCom on 25/10/2008 01:04:42 Absolutely great idea because something will replace it, and that something could be really good. For instance, there could be new sensor mechanics:
1. You have passive sensors and active sensors on your ship.
2. The passive sensors are always receiving and automatically warn you of ships in the vicinity (with a certain range based on sensor strength). They won't tell you the name of the pilot, but they do give a clue on how big it is and whether it's a combat ship or something civilian or whatever. The better your sensor skills (new types of skills), the more info you can get. On grid you might even get information on fitting. It's delayed though. Passive sensors need time to make out bogeys and discern details - so at first you don't see anything, then only have a red dot on your screen, and after a while it becomes clear what that thing really is.
Naturally passive sensors do not give your location away.
3. Active sensors give instant detailed information on ship and its location, but will also give your location and presence away.
4. Friendly ships are always in communication with each other and will alert their presence to you via radio (namely you will get detailed information immediately once their enter system just like local now, but also with ship details. This way you won't have false alarms.
5. There exist modules and skills which enhance the range, speed and detail of the sensors (although the skills would be must have). Active modules are med slot, passives are low slot.
6. Friendly stations and pos might link their own sensor data to your ship if they are equipped with sensor mods. Command ships and battlecruisers can equip sensor warfare links doing the same. The existing warfare links can also affect the new sensors.
7. Cloaks: Covops cloaks enable you to do passive scanning without penalty, other cloaks have such a penalty. Non-cloaking ships fitting a cloak will be blind! You can't see them, but they will also get no information on you... Recons will have the best sensors available.
8. Sensor attributes are based on the racial sensor types - e.g. Caldari will be slowest but longest ranged, Minmatar will be quick but low range.
There.
Amazing, you put into words what I have been thinking, but unable to describe. I 99% agree (I think your way is overly detailed and may need to be dumbed down, but mostly dead on).
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TimGascoigne
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.30 19:28:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
have you ever used the on-board scanner? It gives no clue as to who is piloting the ship. you will be reporting friendly gangs all day long.
how about we replace local with a scan which works in exactly the same as having local, or we could save ourselves lots of bother by leaving local as it is.
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 21:24:00 -
[284]
The only way to keep it fair for both hunters and prey is to give a reasonable chance for either side to detect and avoid detection. That will involve the introduction of a totally new system and more than likely having all sorts of balance issues to deal with. For the time being, local should stay as is until we know for a fact that the replacement system will be not only effective, but easy to use. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |

Rip Striker
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Posted - 2008.10.30 21:46:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Without the local as it is now, without anything like the local as it is now - and of course an onboard scanner adjusted to this,
New never before seen tactics will take place in eve, whole fleets will escape if the enemie scouts arent smart enough. Scouts in general will be alot more important, a smart or dumb scout can send a fleet into death or victory - they will then be truly the eyes and ears of the fc.
It will be impossible to determine if the enemie fleet has 200 or 400 ships, parts of fleets can be hidden and join the fight lateron, an fc will have to be alot more wary of what is happening.
Fcs of small gangs will have to enter skirmishes without knowing the exact count of the enemie, no more OH GAWD HE HAS ONE FUKKEN MORE SHIP THEN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECCCIOUS LIVES!.
Non alliance players can use the vast space held by alliance with only poses, with the current local never used but without localthose alliances have no idea what is going on there, it can take weeks or longer before an alliance notices that a small corp has made its home in a system right in the middle of the alliances territory.
Mining ops will have to be more organized, local isnt the perfect guard anymore - now you will need one or several emergency guards like falcons that can bail out scrambled hulks, at the same time one scout in a strategic system can warn and make a whole constellation disappear for a incomming fleet, for them to never see a target.
Recons andcov ops will see a revival in their true role, being undetected roaming behind enemie lines - at the same time an attacking recon never knows how many defending ships there really are when it uncloaks in scrambling range of the target.
-------
This change, when clever introduced will make the so boring, the so constant 0.0 as it is now into a fearsome, always pushing and adrenalin milking environment. Bring it on ccp, dont listen to the naysayers, only listen to the arguments against it, as there is a solution to all of them if you play it smart.
Very ineteresting times ahead, indeed.
/SIGNED!1!!1! 
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chao226
Dark Entropy
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:01:00 -
[286]
Edited by: chao226 on 31/10/2008 02:03:04 Ok here is my thoughts on the matter. This is a much needed change although done as in change notting cept local would be a bad idea.... reasons for this is People are 2 dependant on the current system (even though it is hugely one sided)
people are lazy relying on local channel rather than other methods of gathering intel.
now my personal expiriance from years of 0.0 mineing and npc'ing I have only ever lost a ship when carebearing in 0.0 when I was drunk. if one moniters local vigilently they will never have losses, this should not be the case.
ok i have read some posts here and a few complaints have came up.
1. npc will apparantly all return to empire and do lvl 4 missions: i'm sure some will but I also belive risk vs reward is going to be rethought with this. for example exploration can get a huge bost more of thoses sites u scan with the on board scanner. this make you a lot harderto find as in soemone will needto takethe time to probe out somone who may not actily be there.
2. mineing:
rather simple pay scouts to sit at gates for ya and pick a system with onyl a few gates.
also I would add that recons stelth bombers ext would actuly relly fill there roles. black ops will become a lot more useful.
more intel tools will be needed but perhaps this will incurage people to deveop there own intel system ways of lettingthere aliance know if hostiles are spotted ect
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 02:40:00 -
[287]
Originally by: chao226
also I would add that recons stelth bombers ext would actuly relly fill there roles. black ops will become a lot more useful.
Recons already fill their role. With local removal, they're nothing short of totally OP.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |

Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.31 04:08:00 -
[288]
Now something constructive for a change,
the best idea ive seen in this thread to replace the current local imo, is to integrate a ships sensor strength in the scanning process, which itself then shows you more or less what is going on in your system.
I like using the sensor strength for the scanning as it gives certain ships such as covert ops, recons, EAF but also Hacs and battleships an advantage in scanning ships over interceptors, interdictors, cruisers etc.
With this implemented some ships are better for scouting, when ratting bigger ships such as battleships see enemie ships faster - but at the same time when ratting with an assault frigate you warp faster. When mining a rorqual with its strong sensor strength will be very useful for protection as well. Eccms will be a whole lot more important, this will solve the debate about falcons being overpowered.
The question is how to create a new system from the theory.
An idea i had was to use the system map as a ground layer and the ships sensor strength used to dictate a scanners maximum reach.
On this system map every ship emits a signal depending on its signature radius. A signal from a cruisersized signature radius, as example, could then create a 1AU radius on the system map which the onboard scanner can scan when in range. With a bigger signal from a bigger signature radius you will have a signal radius, as example when a cruisersized signature radius produces a 1Au signal radius, a battleship would produce a 4AU Signal radius - which is, of course, is more likely in range of a onboard scanner.
Now for fleets you could let signals add up when in range to each other, no matter if friend or fo, thus creating a bigger signal radius which can be scanned from further away.
When such a signal is scanned it would be appropiate to show how strong the signal is and whereabouts it is coming from. Altho the infos should be kept vague otherwise its too easy to predict an enemies ship etc.
Scanner should never fail to see a signal, if in range - otherwise you have ceptors on top of you before you know it. The whole point is that bigger ships are seen from further away then smaller ships.
When a battleships has a 4AU signal radius, which is a 10 seconds guess and will have to be balanced, a fleets signal radius of 50 battleships shouldnt be 4*50 but more like maybe 25AU or something sane.
I think it would be reasonable to increase the lock delay after uncloaking, a big increasement for normal and another 5seconds maybe for cov ops cloaks. In change cloaked ships have a minimum singal radius.
The signal radius`s should be liveupdated, or every few secs automaticly on your system scanner, this way miner and ratter can keep the system map open and keep on with their business. Some sort of out of system map warning when a new signal was detected should be implemented, too.
thats it, excuse me when i forgot some stuff, its 5 int he mornin here and feel free to take this idea and change it as much as you like. A local change is a chance to make the game so much more interesting, and when you have accepted that ccp will change the local - rather then complaniing that they will think of something youd like to see the local become to. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Philip Stark
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Posted - 2008.10.31 04:56:00 -
[289]
Ok I can see the Pros and Cons of this. Hunters would have more power as they can scan the belts and the Miners and Ratters wouldnt know if someone was in system hunting for them. Pros are Hunters have the ability to seek and destroy, cons for them is they dont know if the prey is prey or just bait. (Cloaked Ships waiting for Hunters to show up). Pros and Cons for Ratters and miners are, Hunters dont know if they are there with out scaning the system(but we all know how easy it is to scan systems for ships look at how easy it is for gankers to find mission runners). Now the Miners/Ratters dont always have the mods to scan down the system to see if theres anyone hunting them while they are doing their job. Only current sulution to this is to have someone in gang actively scaning the entire system every sec, but I dont think teh probs work that fast.
Heres some solutions that might work might not work. Ok first of all All ships should have some form of IFF on them. (Identify Friend or Foe) For alliances that have Sov of systems this is simple. You have a POS structure that scans the systems for the IFF signals. This can be either something that CCP makes that everyship in the same Corp or Alliance always has so that if someone leaves the Corp its gone and they cant sneak into that alliance space. Or Every ship gets a special rig slot thats only for IFF moduals, and they have to be given that modual from the corp for every ship. Upon leaving the corp the rig is auto destoryed, but if a ship with this modual is destroyed theres a slim chance that it surivies and can be used on an enemy ship to sneak into that factions space. (very slim chance though so that Alliances dont have to worry about Gobs of Fleets sneaking in as a friendly fleet) Also maybe Make an extra IFF slot so that when Alliances join togeather they can use a common IFF rig so people dont get shot at. I know we have a current IFF scheme now, ie where people are orange to red and various shades of blue. But if you take away local, then using the IFF rigs and having a POS structure that can scan the entire system will let alliances know that someone with out the proper IFF rig has entered their space.
For the ratters/miners give us a new skill and mod that lets us scan for warp sigunatures comeing towards us. So ok we will need a new skill or two that and a mod that uses a mid slot. But think if we they have an active Scanner looking for Warp Siguatures coming towards them then at least its some sort of warning before the gankers get there. The skill could determin the range of when the scanner detects the incoming warp. But it would only detect uncloaked warping signatures, which would give cloaking gankers an edge, but theres still that time gap between cloak and ability to lock that would allow someone the ability to get away.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2008.10.31 07:31:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Nian Banks on 31/10/2008 07:32:49 I am for the change if and only IF they add one other change at the same time.
What needs to be added is to have corps/alliance owned systems post in local for members of the corp/alliance when an alliance-corp/friendly/enemy/unknown enters that system via a gate and in alliance chat posts when enemies enter via a gate any systems owned by that alliance.
That I believe is what must be done for the local change to be decent and workable.
It gives an advantage to the defenders, and so it should be that case.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:06:00 -
[291]
well, I've started to hash together a 'local replacement' discussion, on F&I.
It's: Here
Comments/feedback (and resultant thread bumping ;p) is appreciated. -- 249km locking? |

Saraah Leeown
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:30:00 -
[292]
Holy crap, I read like 2 pages of this drivel before my eyes felt like they were going to bleed.
You guys just pick one small thing and blow it WAY out of proportion. CCP have said NUMEROUS times, that they wouldn't just straight out remove local, because it wouldn't make the game fun. They've also said that mashing the scanner button every few seconds isn't fun. During one of the live dev blogs it was mentioned that an overhaul of the probing/scanning system was being looked at in conjunction with the removal of local intel. In other words, they want to remove the intel part from local, and replace it with something else that will take a little bit of skill to use in order to get the same info.
In my opinion, this is an awesome idea, and I look forward to seeing how it's implemented.
I just hope it's soon, because otherwise we're going to continue to hear "OMG CPP YOU'RE DESTROYING THE GAME I'M GOING TO CANCEL MY ACCOUNT AND SO WILL EVERYONE ELSE THIS IS THE LAST STRAWAKFNKTRLIJHFL<KNSFL>M<DVLKJDSLKJFJ" from all the myopic idiots who read every comment from the devs as "We personally hate you and eve online, and are doing our best to ruin it just to spite you because even after 5 years of developing the greatest mmo out there, we still have no idea what we're doing"
I've been playing this game in one form or another for almost 2 years, and it just keeps getting better and better. Sure I don't agree with every change but I'm not going to nerd rage over it, coz eve's still the one game that holds my attention after all this time.
Honestly, a lot of you sound like you're 4 years old, and just been told you have to go to bed early coz it's a school night.
Stop being idiots and... well there is really no and, just stop being idiots
Thanks in advance
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tachet
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:44:00 -
[293]
This has to be the worst idea i have ever heard from CCP and tbh im surprised they would suggest such a thing, I for one would never enter low sec again without blob fleet this would make the game so crap for people who want to rat or (try) and solo pvp...i have no words to discribe how appauled i am at this idea...just...no
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Q429
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Posted - 2008.10.31 10:50:00 -
[294]
As long as I can smack talk into the scanner/new local, and at least be able to tell if there is anyone in system (even it just said "presence detected" or whatever) then the social aspect of local would not go away.
also, players should have a way to have buddies, and it would notify each other that they are in system together. It would be something they both have to agree on of course.
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Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:05:00 -
[295]
I personally think it would be a great improvement removing or delaying local, especially for 0.0 space, but you do need to make sure people can still easily gather intel locally.
My suggestion is simple.
Something that bugs me is if you can see talk locally across the vast AUs/light years of space then why not pictures........?
I'd like to see Camera Drones introduced that can be deployed (like fighters) and sent to view gates or belts and whatnot for your intel gathering needs.
I would like to see it so they could be deployed by ratters at gates so they can see who comes in or out of a system.
They could also be deployed by pirates/gangs to belts to look for ratters - this would work especially well if you had a varient (perhaps Tech II) that could cov ops cloak.
Ideally a mini window of the visual where they are deployed from their viewpoint would be good with a limited sub-overview showing ship/cans etc.
This brings a new 'cat and mouse' aspect to piracy. Fleets/gangs also have the great advantage of (cov ops) scouts being able to do real 'sneaky' scouting for targets.
If you combine this idea with some nifty scanner upgrades and I think local will be fine just as the chat channel it was intended to be.
Just my thoughts.
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Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:05:00 -
[296]
Carebear whine. It's war out there. Stay in highsec then.
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2008.10.31 16:55:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Carebear whine. It's war out there. Stay in highsec then.
QFT. Remove local, adapt or move to high sec.
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:14:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Gai Servos
YOu cannot test something at this scale on sisi.
Wholeheartedly agreed. How you can mimic the large scale politics and strategies that dictate defense networks on sisi I can't imagine.
NB - This will promote blobbing, but of alliances. Only the large will survive.
As the CEO of a small, proudly independent corp with 0.0 access via political networking, this change troubles me. It may spell the end of our presence in 0.0 if it's wrongly implemented.
I, for one want an active scanner that updates at least every second, and with at least 21AU range! Right now, a fast inty can cover 13.5AU per second - that's enough to be next to you within a second. 21AU semi-active scanning would give you, maybe, enough warning to hit the warp button if someone appears on scan. 21AU also catches every type of scan probe except the ferret and observator - give people some reason to train Astrometrics 5.
Oh, and please make the probes selectable as a type on the overview. Having to turn off the 'use current overview settings button' to see them is really cr4ptacular.
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:31:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Perry How about...
Local Pod Probe (fits into Recon Probe Launcher) - analyzes the current System for active Pod-Transmitters - 15seconds needed to provide a list of players in this system
Local Pod Scanner Array (POS Module) - needs Sov 1 - changes Local from delayed to instant mode for every pilot in same ally (or for all players, if former doesnt work)
NPC 0.0(eg Stain) becomes valueless without a deployable module of some description.
In addition to your above suggestions, an anchorable module, like a bubble, would be even better. Make people invest some time in setting up security for their ratting / mining.
PS - An Observator probe is a great solution to this problem - it covers an entire system and gives you location and shiptype for the entire system.
However, I sure as hell want an auto-repeat on that scan, or it's more button mashing. I'd also want it to be quickler than its current default speed of 120 seconds (minimun 24 approx, with a rigged covops).
I do not want to have to rely upon other people for my fun in game. I have played this game most of two and a half years mostly solo, and that's not going to change.. Politics and networking for cooperative support is one thing I can accept... but anything that makes solo ratting or mining in 0.0 impossible or massivly more of a pain in the arse is the death of the game for me.
...and my three active and one inactive acount.
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:59:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov I'm all for removing local - would make 0.0 much more fun.
When I heard this I posted that if implemented, it would solidly gain my vote of confidence that they haven't gone completely soft on us hard core players. This game is where we came many years ago for the sole reason that it's supposed to be the deadliest game out there.
There needs to be a real reason to go to cheaper fitted ships, and this would be a good reason to fly them. Don't undock what you can't afford to lose.
We need more blood in the water.
In contrast, I think that CCPs survival as a company, and hence survival of the game we all play, relies upon them attracting as wide and stable a userbase as possible.
'Hardcore' is niche; a bit like the top chain predator. For every wolf there are 100 bison, or elk. For every lion there are 100 wildebeest. Also: right now there's something of a drought on - it's called a global recession. People are going to be considering what they do with their hard-earned, and might not stump for as many eve accounts (you know, the people who run 6 accounts).
To maintain viability, and attract more casual players, rather than relying on a specialised group of PvPer, I think Eve probably needs to get less hardcore.
BTW : I'm one of those multiple accounts, but I have the luxury of not having to pay for them, because I farm ISK... That'll get harder to do as people find it harder to justify selling GTCs, and the prices go up.
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