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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
necronarcosis
Shadow Company Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:16:00 -
[121]
Edited by: necronarcosis on 25/10/2008 21:16:01 will there be a counter to full on recon gangs that cant ever be tracked under the proposed changes?
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:24:00 -
[122]
We don't even know when the changes will happen, what the sum total of them will be, and otherwise
I'm pretty much certain that there'll be some replacement intel tool similar in function to local, but much less "hay guys this is a chat channel you get to use for intel, too!" |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:55:00 -
[123]
Without the local as it is now, without anything like the local as it is now - and of course an onboard scanner adjusted to this,
New never before seen tactics will take place in eve, whole fleets will escape if the enemie scouts arent smart enough. Scouts in general will be alot more important, a smart or dumb scout can send a fleet into death or victory - they will then be truly the eyes and ears of the fc.
It will be impossible to determine if the enemie fleet has 200 or 400 ships, parts of fleets can be hidden and join the fight lateron, an fc will have to be alot more wary of what is happening.
Fcs of small gangs will have to enter skirmishes without knowing the exact count of the enemie, no more OH GAWD HE HAS ONE FUKKEN MORE SHIP THEN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECCCIOUS LIVES!.
Non alliance players can use the vast space held by alliance with only poses, with the current local never used but without localthose alliances have no idea what is going on there, it can take weeks or longer before an alliance notices that a small corp has made its home in a system right in the middle of the alliances territory.
Mining ops will have to be more organized, local isnt the perfect guard anymore - now you will need one or several emergency guards like falcons that can bail out scrambled hulks, at the same time one scout in a strategic system can warn and make a whole constellation disappear for a incomming fleet, for them to never see a target.
Recons andcov ops will see a revival in their true role, being undetected roaming behind enemie lines - at the same time an attacking recon never knows how many defending ships there really are when it uncloaks in scrambling range of the target.
-------
This change, when clever introduced will make the so boring, the so constant 0.0 as it is now into a fearsome, always pushing and adrenalin milking environment. Bring it on ccp, dont listen to the naysayers, only listen to the arguments against it, as there is a solution to all of them if you play it smart.
Very ineteresting times ahead, indeed. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Brigsby5987
Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:41:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Corp Quas Edited by: Corp Quas on 24/10/2008 19:51:54
Quote: Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
I swear to you CCP if you mess this up in any way you will lose at least 6 more accounts. This is primarily only catering to the roaming PvP pilots. There are far more people that need local to work as-is to enjoy this game. Changing it will be a drastic "last straw" change and you will lose alot of players.
In 0.0 as we get intel of hostile gangs via local we can form defence gangs to prepare. With the proposed changes roaming gangs will have ultimate power over 0.0 space. There will not be defence gangs because no one will even know any hostiles are there until it is too late.
Stop whining.
Unsubscribe to eve please. And give me your stuff.
I could care less about you or your six accounts leaving. Less lag for me.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.26 00:03:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists It will be impossible to determine if the enemie fleet has 200 or 400 ships, parts of fleets can be hidden and join the fight lateron, an fc will have to be alot more wary of what is happening.
Fcs of small gangs will have to enter skirmishes without knowing the exact count of the enemie, no more OH GAWD HE HAS ONE FUKKEN MORE SHIP THEN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECCCIOUS LIVES!.
Instead we'll have OH GOD THEY MIGHT HAVE ONE MORE SHIP THAN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECIOUS LIVES.
Newsflash: risk averse players will still be risk averse, gung-ho players will still be gung-ho. Removing a source of quick intel wont make risk averse players suddenly turn gung-ho, it just means they'll be spending even longer trying to scout and get relative numbers before they commit to a fight.
Quote: Non alliance players can use the vast space held by alliance with only poses, with the current local never used but without localthose alliances have no idea what is going on there, it can take weeks or longer before an alliance notices that a small corp has made its home in a system right in the middle of the alliances territory.
O hey a buff to chinese isk farmers that's just what EVE needs.
Quote: Mining ops will have to be more organized, local isnt the perfect guard anymore - now you will need one or several emergency guards like falcons that can bail out scrambled hulks, at the same time one scout in a strategic system can warn and make a whole constellation disappear for a incomming fleet, for them to never see a target.
In other words boring **** like mining ops will be even more boring because you need a bunch of falcons to sit doing nothing for hours on end while they babysit the miners and a group of covops sat doing nothing covering every approach system glued to the screen, all waiting for hostiles which may or may not ever show up. And of course, every Falcon and covops is one fewer mining ship, so we've succeeded in increasing the tedium of 0.0 mining whilst decreasing the profit. Hell YES.
Why would anyone want to live in 0.0 again?
Quote: Recons andcov ops will see a revival in their true role, being undetected roaming behind enemie lines - at the same time an attacking recon never knows how many defending ships there really are when it uncloaks in scrambling range of the target.
No, roaming and defence ops will become limited to cloakships only - "what, no you can't come in a HAC/ceptor/BC, you'll get scanned and give our presence away, get in a recon or don't come at all." -----------
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Moostang
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.26 00:03:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Brigsby5987
Stop whining.
Unsubscribe to eve please. And give me your stuff.
I could care less about you or your six accounts leaving. Less lag for me.
He wont be the only one. The more subs ccp loses the closer this game will be to going belly up as with all sub-based games and if you play this game because you enjoy it then you too will be hurt by this when CCP says "we're shutting this down". MMORPG's are a dime a dozen these days and holding on to subs should be the highest priorities. I've seen several games in the past several years go belly up. MMORPG's must fight for subs these days, they cant just throw them away if they want to survive.
This change is too drastic to be allowed to happen. To too have over 4 accounts and many other posters have relayed that they too will unsub. their accounts. Everyone is either content or happy with the current system. Content as in no one is relaying their intent on leaving if local isnt currently changed (though i'm sure some morons will after they read this).
Scouts are not even close to being a good substitute for local. Some systems have 4+ gates in them so what, 4 people are going to have to stay bored to hell for 23/7?? And if they leave to go crap, eat, spend time with their family, or whatever and a few hostiles slip in, no one will know. What if those hostiles log out in the system for a day, how will you know when they log back in and are a threat again?? Not to mention Cloaked-warped able ships will be immune to all detection once in system and will be the new flavor of the year(s).
Moostang Darkstar 1 Goonswarm
Priceless Necro Thread |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.26 00:43:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists It will be impossible to determine if the enemie fleet has 200 or 400 ships, parts of fleets can be hidden and join the fight lateron, an fc will have to be alot more wary of what is happening.
Fcs of small gangs will have to enter skirmishes without knowing the exact count of the enemie, no more OH GAWD HE HAS ONE FUKKEN MORE SHIP THEN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECCCIOUS LIVES!.
Instead we'll have OH GOD THEY MIGHT HAVE ONE MORE SHIP THAN US WE CANNOT RISK OUR PRECIOUS LIVES.
Newsflash: risk averse players will still be risk averse, gung-ho players will still be gung-ho. Removing a source of quick intel wont make risk averse players suddenly turn gung-ho, it just means they'll be spending even longer trying to scout and get relative numbers before they commit to a fight.
Nope , people seimply cannto become more paranoid and afraid then they are. Because there is a limit. No local will make people more willign to engage at least in fast hit an drun tactics.
FINNALy tactics will mean something in eve.
Alliances wil have to concentrate on smaller pockets if they want to have safe operations. Its a price! Finnaly Risk reward applied to 0.0 because with current TQ status there is ZERO risk to make isk in 0.0 once you live in a region you control. Even if you are the only person in your alliance that lives in that station system.
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Brugar
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Posted - 2008.10.26 01:51:00 -
[128]
This change will increase bookmarks to an all time high again, bringing us back to the database issues and bookmarks. People will be making bookmarks at each and every gate they normally use so as to be able to safely check for bubbles and not get trapped. 150km+ bookmarks will be all over the place.
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AmmoniaisNH3
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:16:00 -
[129]
i don't mind that change, but: please make the scanner active, so we don't have to spam 'scan' change the 'pilots in space the last 30 minutes' to a shorter period, 15 minutes or something
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Kephael
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:25:00 -
[130]
This seems like a great idea, CCP just need to make the scanner a like a modern radar type device. Have it rotate and if it's picking up an incoming vessel traveling at a high rate of speed (warp) towards your general area have an alarm go off in addition to the visual alert of the radar.
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Ashley Thomas
Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:26:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Brugar This change will increase bookmarks to an all time high again, bringing us back to the database issues and bookmarks. People will be making bookmarks at each and every gate they normally use so as to be able to safely check for bubbles and not get trapped. 150km+ bookmarks will be all over the place.
or they will run with a scout... if you wanna check for bubbles warp to nearest planet and... use the directional scanner. sure there's some gates that aren't by planets but its good enough.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:26:00 -
[132]
my problem with it is that it will make 0.0 even more lonely and will aid chinese farmers who can cloak and use the local delay to stay hidden.
My problem is that combined with cloaks on none-covert ships this feature makes it almost impossible to police your space. And while I would like the 'intel' aspect of local removed in an ideal pvp world, to remove it the way EvE is played now would give the gate camper/cloaker too much power. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:27:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/10/2008 02:27:53
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Nope , people seimply cannto become more paranoid and afraid then they are. Because there is a limit. No local will make people more willign to engage at least in fast hit an drun tactics.
FINNALy tactics will mean something in eve.
There's only one small issue with local change: force recon gangs (which are very potent ships in themselves) are going to become insanely overpowered.
"Hit and run" might as well become "hit and stay around and hit again" and "bait and blob". At least now, your way to see that 4-5 cloaking recons are going to uncloak on you when you attack the bait ship is local (which might or might not give you a clue - in low-sec with many neutrals around, you often have to engage under very unclear circumstances, but if you frequent a area often you know who's who) and totally murder you.
Meaning, either be in your own cloaky gang or die. With local nerfing I have to say cloaking recons (which are very potent ships to begin with) are a bad idea to have in the game at all.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.26 06:46:00 -
[134]
I think it is an important change. There is no real point to covert ops and stealth ops behind enemy lines when everyone knows exactly which systems you are moving through.
However, there need to be some dramatic UI improvements.
I think UI should be changed and have a box in the middle which incorporates your shield, armor and structure status but also includes your short-range sensor information.
Short range sensors should be passive. Their range based on the strength of your sensors. In the circle you are represented in the middle and the Sensors are tuned to pick up any ships with a friend or foe system where it will show green dots on the sensors for friendly+ ships in proximity and anything else neutral- represented as a red dot. That way when a ship comes close enough to within your detection range then you are made aware. Can set it for audio warnings when enemy craft get into sensor range.
Cloak ships wont be detected by short range sensors.
Probes should be able to detect cloaked vessels, just be a lot harder to accurately pin down. |
DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:39:00 -
[135]
Have you guys heard of Login Traps ??? Yes, is metagaming but people do it all the time... Have people thought about what will happen with this new feature and the will of people at "win at all cost" ???
________________ God is my Wingman |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:43:00 -
[136]
Originally by: DeadDuck Have you guys heard of Login Traps ??? Yes, is metagaming but people do it all the time... Have people thought about what will happen with this new feature and the will of people at "win at all cost" ???
These changes are hardly surprising if you look at the players ccp gathered to help them, armchair warriors and paper tigers the lot of them.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Heavily Utilized Mechanic Mayhem Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 09:54:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Crackzilla
And consider that CCP wants to remove fixed belts. So rather then 12 belts on overview, the belts must be located via exploration.
My first thought was indeed "bye bye to 0.0 ratting", but if belts would indeed be more difficult to locate and possibly a slight buff to onboard scanner range (its currently not enough to guarantee your safety in the blind local scenario even when clicking it every 2 seconds) it would be a different story. I would really like non-fixed belts. |
Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.10.26 10:35:00 -
[138]
So your roaming pilot/gang/fleet gains an extra level of surprise at the cost of an extra amount of work needed to locate targets.
Targets that either won't be in 0.0, or blobbed up to counter any surprises. Yes, that's an awesome buff to 0.0 small gang PvP.
There's a reason 90% of 0.0 systems are dead and empty, and it's not to do with PvP. It's because they're worthless. Making local "delayed mode" will not increase the number of targets available. |
Noelle Fay
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:35:00 -
[139]
OMG the carebears don't like this change, what a surprise!
Guys, 0.0 isn't meant to be a "oh local jumps, I just go cloak up and wait it all out" place. It is dangerous. Can't handle it? Go to lowsec. This might help populating low sec as well in the end..
I'm all for this drastic, yet good, change. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:40:00 -
[140]
The best thing about this change if done properly, even considering the things i posted above - EVE will be Huge again, flying through 0.0 will feel like the first times again, when you didnt know whats next door, when things were "unexplored" and new.
Itll be freakin awesome, and all arguments against it that ive seen can be with some fixin cancelled out by ccp - again, if they do it properly. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:30:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 26/10/2008 13:36:17
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
Yes! Good Sir, you are a ****ing genious!
Next time I want to talk in local, I'll first use my scanner to see if anyone is even in system! Then, after checking all the stations, I'll be able to confirm weather or not people aren't answering me in local is because they aren't paying attention or because nobody is ****ing there
and to go a little further, maybe you ditto heads like to search a whole system before realizing (after 40minutes) that there isn't anyone in system. And if the scanner is as useful as you say it is, isn't it the same damn thing as having a local window? |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:31:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 26/10/2008 13:31:01 CCP: Don't even THINK about doing this unless you first revamp and improve the scanner and it's UI.
If local won't tell you who comes into your system, who is hostile and who is an ally, then the ship scanner SHOULD. And should do so at a reasonable range.
Furthermore, if you are part of the alliance that OWNS sov in a 0.0 system, local should work as is. I mean, it's YOUR system isn't it? Don't the gates also belong to your alliance? Shouldn't you get notification of hostiles entering?
This could work. But the scanner needs a fix to go ALONG with this, not to be done afterwords.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:33:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Good Sir Frankly, I beg to differ. Your ship always has an on board scanner. I highly suggest you learn how to use it.
This.
/Thread |
Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:41:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Terra Mikael on 26/10/2008 13:43:19
Originally by: Mirirar Argh, the whining.
Get a buddy to patrol the gates for you. It's not a solo game.
If you can't manage that, odds are you actually aren't ready to be in the space you're in.
So, if you need a buddy to hold your hand, then you're ready to take on the universe? Did I read this right?
seriously, only a former WoW player would suggest that you need a full party to play this game. you fail. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:53:00 -
[145]
Originally by: DeadDuck Have you guys heard of Login Traps ??? Yes, is metagaming but people do it all the time... Have people thought about what will happen with this new feature and the will of people at "win at all cost" ???
Yeah, those will get far more powerful. I'm honestly more worried about cloaking recon gangs, however, they don't even need to logoff/logon, just sit there all day ;P
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Market Bandit
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:00:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: DeadDuck Have you guys heard of Login Traps ??? Yes, is metagaming but people do it all the time... Have people thought about what will happen with this new feature and the will of people at "win at all cost" ???
Yeah, those will get far more powerful. I'm honestly more worried about cloaking recon gangs, however, they don't even need to logoff/logon, just sit there all day ;P
If they are willing to sit there all day....waiting patiently for the kill, then they deserve it. At least you don't have to worry about afk cloakers anymore, until they wake up but thats no less a threat than you have to deal with already.
Summation of the whines in this thread - ohnoes I can no longer safespot, cloak & ctrl-q as soon as a hostile appears in local...:emoragequit: Good riddance
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:15:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Alliances wil have to concentrate on smaller pockets if they want to have safe operations. Its a price! Finnaly Risk reward applied to 0.0 because with current TQ status there is ZERO risk to make isk in 0.0 once you live in a region you control. Even if you are the only person in your alliance that lives in that station system.
Yes, 0.0 ratting in the current game is completely risk free. All those killmails and lossmails on our killboard of ratting battleships caught by roaming gangs are faked. -----------
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:24:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Alliances wil have to concentrate on smaller pockets if they want to have safe operations. Its a price! Finnaly Risk reward applied to 0.0 because with current TQ status there is ZERO risk to make isk in 0.0 once you live in a region you control. Even if you are the only person in your alliance that lives in that station system.
Yes, 0.0 ratting in the current game is completely risk free. All those killmails and lossmails on our killboard of ratting battleships caught by roaming gangs are faked.
You forgot to mention how claiming Sov, removing opposing Sov claims, maintaining and defending said Sov claim is also completely risk-free. |
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:24:00 -
[149]
While I encourage people to discuss balancing changes, new ideas, old ideas, and such. Please do not take a one sentence reply to a specific question, get upset and think that we will put local in delayed mode on Tranquility without thinking, testing and getting feedback first. And please do not flame and troll others for bringing their thoughts and ideas to the table.
This is my personal opinion on this:
Quote: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown.
- We acknowledge that Local at its current form is a way too powerful intel tool. Example: CCP Oveur has expressed this concern during an interview with EVE-TV. I do not remember the date, it could have been last Alliance tournament or Fanfest.
Quote: We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
- We have ideas on this front, but if that doesn't result in something concrete we have the option to address the problem the other way around:
1. Put local in delayed mode on Singularity for testing purposes. 2. Get feedback on what issues arises, pros and cons. 3. Build and improve tools to balance the issues, pros and cons, based on the feedback. 4. Put the new tools on Singularity for testing purposes. 5. Get feedback on issues, pros and cons. 6. See point 3. 7. Weigh the old system against the new system - See what we learned and how we can continue. |
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Gai Servos
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:34:00 -
[150]
Originally by: CCP Casqade While I encourage people to discuss balancing changes, new ideas, old ideas, and such. Please do not take a one sentence reply to a specific question, get upset and think that we will put local in delayed mode on Tranquility without thinking, testing and getting feedback first. And please do not flame and troll others for bringing their thoughts and ideas to the table.
This is my personal opinion on this:
Quote: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown.
- We acknowledge that Local at its current form is a way too powerful intel tool. Example: CCP Oveur has expressed this concern during an interview with EVE-TV. I do not remember the date, it could have been last Alliance tournament or Fanfest.
Quote: We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
- We have ideas on this front, but if that doesn't result in something concrete we have the option to address the problem the other way around:
1. Put local in delayed mode on Singularity for testing purposes. 2. Get feedback on what issues arises, pros and cons. 3. Build and improve tools to balance the issues, pros and cons, based on the feedback. 4. Put the new tools on Singularity for testing purposes. 5. Get feedback on issues, pros and cons. 6. See point 3. 7. Weigh the old system against the new system - See what we learned and how we can continue.
YOu cannot test something at this scale on sisi.
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