Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar 24th Imperial Recon
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 05:46:00 -
[1]
I've used ABs most of the time I've played EVE, but that's because I spent a lot of time running missions.
Now that I'm really starting to get involved with PVP, I really need to learn about MWDs better. When flying frigates, is there ever a time that an AB is better than a MWD?
After Quantum Rise, how does this equation change? It seems like MWDs getting switched off by a warp jam would be pretty grim news for an interceptor (or any frigate, really). Are ABs (I do like ABs, what can I say?) going to be more viable in PVP after QR?
I'm really looking for discussion on this, because it's something I don't have the experience I really need on the matter. |
Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 06:03:00 -
[2]
In general, microwarpdrives make you go faster than afterburners, but they use more power. Since a large part of PvP success is dictating range, the faster ship will be more successful than the slower one; he get's to choose the range (and he'll fight at optimal range for his weapons), or he gets to run away if he can't win.
Times when one might choose an afterburner over a microwarpdrive include fighting in deadspace complexes, where micrwarpdrives don't work. Some ships have so limited powergrid that an afterburner is resorted to just to save power. Occasionally someone will prefer an afterburner to avoid the signature resolution penalty of microwarpdrives.
|
Zarnak Wulf
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 06:35:00 -
[3]
Lots of changes:
Biggest is that webs will be 50-60% effective and not 90%. Ships equipped w/ AB will be able to enter web range and "speed tank" bigger ships tracking. Also, the missile equation is changed. Signature radius is more important then speed in mitigating damage. This is true to the extent that the "reduces sig radius" bonus of interceptors is being changed to "15% less MWD sig penalty" per lvl.
I see MWD getting you too the fight and hopefully out of it. With the speed nerf going into effect you'll find yourself getting hit harder. Just some thoughts. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 06:54:00 -
[4]
Unfortunately, since you will probably still need a MWD in order to burn into 24km point range / burn back to gate / burn out of bubbles after the patch, don't get too excited about fitting ABs to actual PVP ships __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
|
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 06:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Unfortunately, since you will probably still need a MWD in order to burn into 24km point range / burn back to gate / burn out of bubbles after the patch, don't get too excited about fitting ABs to actual PVP ships
This, probably. I think that a few frigates and AFs will maybe use ABs for their speedtanking, and might be able to tank a little better for it, but most will still use MWDs being as they can usually outrange the 7.5k scrams _____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 08:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Terianna Eri Unfortunately, since you will probably still need a MWD in order to burn into 24km point range / burn back to gate / burn out of bubbles after the patch, don't get too excited about fitting ABs to actual PVP ships
This, probably. I think that a few frigates and AFs will maybe use ABs for their speedtanking, and might be able to tank a little better for it, but most will still use MWDs being as they can usually outrange the 7.5k scrams
This. Everyone that thinks that ABs and 9km scrams will be the new thing is wrong.
I'd say 95% of all PVP fit ships will be using MWDs and 24km points still, and the few that armor tank and have a 5th mid to spare (Tempest, Hype, Myrm, Ishtar, Sac w/ 4th mid, Arbitrator, Phobos, Devoter, Broadsword, Onyx etc.) might have 24km, 9km and web, or 2x webs.
Frigs can afford to fit ABs because they have a high enough base speed that ABs can put them over 1k/sec and let them get back to gates and keep range from slower ships. The majority of cruiser sized ships and up will have MWDs however. ABs with the new speed changes just put ships at a *really* low top speed. Too low to be effective in combat. And nobody is going to be fitting faction ABs just for PVP. |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 10:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Terianna Eri Unfortunately, since you will probably still need a MWD in order to burn into 24km point range / burn back to gate / burn out of bubbles after the patch, don't get too excited about fitting ABs to actual PVP ships
This, probably. I think that a few frigates and AFs will maybe use ABs for their speedtanking, and might be able to tank a little better for it, but most will still use MWDs being as they can usually outrange the 7.5k scrams
This may as well be true after Quantum, but it's will become a viable option if your gang has a scout (a real scout with a cov ops) that will give you the warp in point on top of the enemy. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Kurt Ambrose
Caldari Digital assassins G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:01:00 -
[8]
MWD will still be better, MWD will still be used on most PVP ships. |
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar 24th Imperial Recon
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 12:29:00 -
[9]
Good discussion here, thanks--but I've not seen any consideration for the fact that anyone pointing a 24km scrambler at you means your MWD just turned off. If an inty is close enough to put a point on a target, then the target is close enough to turn off the inty's MWD, correct? Thaddeus |
sfsdf
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 12:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor Good discussion here, thanks--but I've not seen any consideration for the fact that anyone pointing a 24km scrambler at you means your MWD just turned off. If an inty is close enough to put a point on a target, then the target is close enough to turn off the inty's MWD, correct?
24k point won't turn off your MWD, just the 7.5km one |
|
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar 24th Imperial Recon
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 12:53:00 -
[11]
Oooh. Well crap. Thanks, I thought it was any point of warp jam--I guess I made that assumption based on the fluff behind it. :) |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 13:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/10/2008 13:09:02
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Terianna Eri Unfortunately, since you will probably still need a MWD in order to burn into 24km point range / burn back to gate / burn out of bubbles after the patch, don't get too excited about fitting ABs to actual PVP ships
This, probably. I think that a few frigates and AFs will maybe use ABs for their speedtanking, and might be able to tank a little better for it, but most will still use MWDs being as they can usually outrange the 7.5k scrams
This. Everyone that thinks that ABs and 9km scrams will be the new thing is wrong.
I'd say 95% of all PVP fit ships will be using MWDs and 24km points still, and the few that armor tank and have a 5th mid to spare (Tempest, Hype, Myrm, Ishtar, Sac w/ 4th mid, Arbitrator, Phobos, Devoter, Broadsword, Onyx etc.) might have 24km, 9km and web, or 2x webs.
Frigs can afford to fit ABs because they have a high enough base speed that ABs can put them over 1k/sec and let them get back to gates and keep range from slower ships. The majority of cruiser sized ships and up will have MWDs however. ABs with the new speed changes just put ships at a *really* low top speed. Too low to be effective in combat. And nobody is going to be fitting faction ABs just for PVP.
Agreed about ABs - it's silly to expect them on anything except frig hulls, although I think MWD + 9km scrambler is going to be mandatory for the effective usage of medium blasters/ACs (for solo). I for one don't see how fitting a 24km point would work on my Rupture/Hurricane (again, for solo).
As for smaller ships, ABs+9km will be viable on frig hulls, but frig hulls do 1+km/s on AB which is already semi-decent. I use AB-ing AFs now at times and they work, they just get a insanely huge buff on SISI.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 13:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor Oooh. Well crap. Thanks, I thought it was any point of warp jam--I guess I made that assumption based on the fluff behind it. :)
CCP helps to add to the confusion here. No matter how many points you get on you, the combat log say you are "warp scrambled". Players shorten it down to saying we're "scrambled".
Now look at the modules, the shorter range 2p warp scrambler is called, well exactly that, a warp scrambler. While the longer range 1p is called a warp disruptor.
When the changes to the warp scrambler was announced, that it would shut off MWD, CCP had to edit and specify it specificly meant the short range "Warp Scrambler". Look at the Arazu, it says it has "20% bonus to warp disruptor range" - many players subsequently assume it only means the long range module, which is wrong. It does add range on the short range 2p module as well.
As you can see it's no wonder players get confused, CCP is mixing the concepts themselves as well. Imho it would be good if they could have one general name for being unable to warp (i.e. scrambled), and make a better distinction on modules (Warp Scrambler, Warp Disruptor) to show which is affected by what. Including updating the Arazu bonus text to show what it actually does.
Anyway, I agree with the posters above. I think the MWD will still be needed, AB today have very limited use outside of PvE, and in the future I'm guessing you'll generally only see it on specific ships. Possibly the smaller ones, and/or cruiser sized vessels, but I doubt we'll see much BC or BS with anything but MWD.
|
Deadlock X
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 14:06:00 -
[14]
Pre patch ab's were pretty crap, the patch contains no boosts to ab's therfor it's pretty safe to say that after the patch ab's will still be crap.
The only viable way of making them work is to drasticly boost the overload speed boost on ab's along with the heat damage to compensate, so you can still use them to burn into range / out of bubbles ect but can't leave them overloaded long enough to turn them into the new mwd. |
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar 24th Imperial Recon
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 14:18:00 -
[15]
I'm really disappointed that it's not *any* warp jam that turns off MWDs. Speaking of that, those modules are under "Warp Jammers" in the market. I think "Warp Interference" would be a better name, then you could say you got a point of Int on them.
I'm majorly bummed out about the AB now--I was really hoping it was going to be viable now. Not better, just not a bad choice. |
Thaddeus Brutor
Minmatar 24th Imperial Recon
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 14:41:00 -
[16]
Does anyone think it would be good if MWDs turned off if you got 2 points of warpjam on you? Then either a 9km or TWO 24km would turn it off. They would still be decent, but ABs would be more viable then. |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 18:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor Does anyone think it would be good if MWDs turned off if you got 2 points of warpjam on you? Then either a 9km or TWO 24km would turn it off. They would still be decent, but ABs would be more viable then.
I think CCPs intention is to boost the shortrange scrambler and get more people fitting it, which they currently have no reason to. Making it so that any two points on a ship disable MWDs would just again relegate the scrambler to the waste bin _____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
|
Cpt Cosmic
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 20:11:00 -
[18]
I think AB and scram will be only viable on AF (which will get a mass rebalance) cause they do not die in few seconds to drones. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 20:42:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Misanth on 25/10/2008 20:43:09
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think CCPs intention is to boost the shortrange scrambler and get more people fitting it, which they currently have no reason to. Making it so that any two points on a ship disable MWDs would just again relegate the scrambler to the waste bin
That's what they claimed before at least, and imho makes sense. Double 24km isn't hard to get on a target and would make it a tad too powerful if it shut down mwd's as well. The short range scrambler has very little use today.
Post-nerf AB+2p combinations? Yah, AF sounds like a possibility. I still reccon most interceptors will be moving outside web and scrambler range, neut, drones and certain missiles will be their enemies, not scramblers shutting off mwd. I'm guessing we'll still see mostly disruptors around, perhaps a bit more AB than today but that'd overall it'll be pretty similar.
As for the OP's question regarding AB in PvP; put it this way - I have four accounts atm, three of them pure PvP ship pilots with the 4th being a mix of trade/mine and combat pilot. Of all the ships I can and do fly, I only have AB on two of my PvP fits. Post-change I doubt it will change very much either. I reccon the bigger difference will be in lows, alot of speed mods will be replaced by +dmg and tank mods. In general you won't want AB in PvP.
|
Joshua Calvert
Caldari Safespot Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 22:55:00 -
[20]
Sp short range warp disruptors are gonna disable mwd also? |
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 23:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Sp short range warp disruptors are gonna disable mwd also?
Uhm, just to kill off the confusion;
Dev blog about speed here.
Quote; Warp scramblers (the close range ones) |
Zarnak Wulf
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 00:16:00 -
[22]
I like the new changes. I think that they'll add some flavor to the game. You might also see some wierd fits....stilleto has four mids.... MWD & AB maybe? You could, (gasp), do that w/ a vagabond too.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 02:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/10/2008 02:17:01 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/10/2008 02:16:10 Post patch: On frigate hull ships (for purposes outside of pure tackle, mainly on AFs however): AB
On everything else: MWD
Now: On frigate hull ships (for most purposes - in low-sec AB fits are feasible ofc): MWD
On everything else: MWD Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
|
Posted - 2008.10.26 06:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Thaddeus Brutor Does anyone think it would be good if MWDs turned off if you got 2 points of warpjam on you? Then either a 9km or TWO 24km would turn it off. They would still be decent, but ABs would be more viable then.
No, they would not. ABs are inviable because you can't use them to burn back to gates; to make them viable you have to make them better at gtfoing than MWDs, which isn't going to happen.
IMHO, give ABs scripts that let you use them as MWDs for 1-2 cycles at a time, and then not again for like 30sec. Then you'd see the sort of thing we want to see: people using AB to manuever in combat, while still being able to burn into range and back to gates so that they don't miss a load of targets and die to random camps. But now I'm repeating myself. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |