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Rainson Arrvax
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Posted - 2008.10.25 13:50:00 -
[1]
Can someone explain to me the reason why Destroyers have a massive 25% penalty to turret rate of fire? Is there a game dynamic I'm not seeing that turns this into an advantage? Other than cost, wouldn't a Cruiser make a just as effective anti-frigate platform. It seems to me that its low and medium slots would make up for its lack of "small" turret bonuses and they have a lot more shields and armor. Or, is the Destroyer supposed to be a very cheap platform that you always buy in twos?
Thanks.
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:02:00 -
[2]
It has a RoF penalty because 7/8 small turrets at full power would probably outdamage a cruiser. Destroyers are meant be solely anti-frigate platforms, and even with the RoF penalty you'll kill most frigates with a couple volleys.
And yes, you're meant to die a lot while flying them. |
Rainson Arrvax
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jana Clant It has a RoF penalty because 7/8 small turrets at full power would probably outdamage a cruiser. Destroyers are meant be solely anti-frigate platforms, and even with the RoF penalty you'll kill most frigates with a couple volleys.
And yes, you're meant to die a lot while flying them.
I guess what I find silly is that they don't just reduce the numberr of turrets by 25%. Oh well. |
Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Amanda Wilkins on 25/10/2008 14:31:51 One of my first CEOs once told me that destroyers was named destroyers not just because they destroy things, but because they are easily destroyed.
That being said, I love them - and Agony Wolfpack classes have shown that they can be very dangerous in pvp, used right. They have a high damage potential and can be used for sniping too.
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Sanka Cofie
Amarr Fractured Core
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:38:00 -
[5]
I'd love to see the fit on this sniping destroyer of yours.
I plan on using it for all future POS takedowns. |
Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sanka Cofie I'd love to see the fit on this sniping destroyer of yours.
I plan on using it for all future POS takedowns.
Snipering isn't just used for POS takedown, you know... Sometimes snipering a gatecamp can be quite devastating to hostile morale. But hey, why am I telling you...
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Sanka Cofie
Amarr Fractured Core
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:48:00 -
[7]
because i'll pay top dollar for the secret of your snipe-dessy?
Seriously. What kind of range are we talking about? 140? 160? |
Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.25 14:52:00 -
[8]
Do your own EFT work - and try an Agony Unleashed Wolfpack to expand your horizon.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Shadow Company Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sanka Cofie because i'll pay top dollar for the secret of your snipe-dessy?
Seriously. What kind of range are we talking about? 140? 160?
With destroyers we're talking about 60-100km. Maybe more if you're willing to rig it. It used to be a lot more important back in the days when you couldn't find an Apoc anywhere and anyone fitting long range guns outside sniper-battleship fleets were laughed at (despite the tactical uses for long range guns). A couple of dessies warping in at 70 could easily wreck a gangs frigates and cruisers (and depending on the number of dessies, HACs as well) before they could respond and then warp off. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Sanka Cofie
Amarr Fractured Core
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:11:00 -
[10]
Am I stupid/crazy enough to rig a destroyer?
I just might be.
I . just . might . be. ~-~-~-~-~ -[WillChat4ISK]- I can be the handsome Amarr space captain. You can be the helpless Minmatar slave girl. |
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Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.25 15:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Amanda Wilkins on 25/10/2008 15:22:49 Destroyers in action
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Atherin Gaius
Caldari Domini Umbrus Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 17:17:00 -
[12]
they also have better tracking than other ships so their ability to hit fast moving targets is better than average. I have a couple sweet anti-AF and anti-interceptor fits that have missile explosion velocity over 3500m/s. Will do damage to all AFs and most inercepors and hacs (unless they are overheated, snake implanted and going 10K plus.)
Once the speed nerf hits, destroyers will be more valuable as well I would think.
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Antarr Slagh
The Pillage People
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Posted - 2008.10.25 21:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amanda Wilkins Edited by: Amanda Wilkins on 25/10/2008 15:22:49 Destroyers in action
Congratulations, 40 mini cruisers took down two HACs. You're bad because you didn't kill them all. With 40 people, you should have more than enough tackle. |
Ralara
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Amanda Wilkins Edited by: Amanda Wilkins on 25/10/2008 15:22:49 Destroyers in action
Fantastic. The smaller gang was outnumbered 10 to 1. --
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.10.25 22:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rainson Arrvax
Originally by: Jana Clant It has a RoF penalty because 7/8 small turrets at full power would probably outdamage a cruiser. Destroyers are meant be solely anti-frigate platforms, and even with the RoF penalty you'll kill most frigates with a couple volleys.
And yes, you're meant to die a lot while flying them.
I guess what I find silly is that they don't just reduce the numberr of turrets by 25%. Oh well.
And then you'd have the same DPS, but a lower alpha strike. More turrets and less RoF is better. |
Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Antarr Slagh
Congratulations, 40 mini cruisers took down two HACs. You're bad because you didn't kill them all. With 40 people, you should have more than enough tackle.
Congratulations. You managed to miss the point that it was not my team, but an Agony Unleashed Wolfpack - and you also managed to miss the point that these destroyers use alphastrikes and range, not tackling, as their primary means of engaging. Well done!!!
Originally by: Ralara
Fantastic. The smaller gang was outnumbered 10 to 1.
Eve is not about being fair. Sorry, was that news to you? But try taking the price of the 44 ships on the one side and the 4-5 ships on the other side and you'll find that it is about equal.
Amanda Wilkins CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish
*****
DGAF teaches PVP to new players and veterans alike ... because we DGAF! |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 23:31:00 -
[17]
Simple: destroyers are meant to have a high alpha strike (though this is kind of obsolete after multiple HP boosts). To get this, you need a lot of gun slots (or a large damage bonus, which is essentially the same thing). To let destroyers have those gun slots without giving them too much damage over time, they get a ROF penalty. The result is you get the dps of 5-6 guns, but the alpha strike of 7-8. |
Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:51:00 -
[18]
Destroyers are good for...
- Salvaging, since they're reasonably fast and can fit 4 tractors and 4 salvagers
- Level 1 missions, they can pop most rats in one volley
- Factional warfare, as they're the biggest thing you can take into a Minor plex and a properly fit destroyer will chew up interceptors and spit them out. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.26 02:58:00 -
[19]
The advantage of lots of turrets with RoF penalty = ALPHA STRIKE with the cost of more isk for more guns... |
Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.26 07:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ecatherina W on 26/10/2008 07:05:39 At 50km range, thrashers can deal an alpha strike of 822... that's pretty impressive for a low-tech ship. Sure, I am using all level 5 skills, 2 rigs and t2 ammo, but still?
At a much lesser cost, a cormy easily goes to the range of 60km and still does a nice 200+ alpha.
Setups are at our forums, sorry, don't want to post them here, too big images.
Destroyers in a group are good for more than just salvaging. Don't sell them short, you'll regret it one day, in flames.
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Ulasim
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 07:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ecatherina W Edited by: Ecatherina W on 26/10/2008 07:14:31 At 50km range, thrashers can deal an alpha strike of 822... that's pretty impressive for a low-tech ship. Sure, I am using all level 5 skills, 2 rigs and t2 ammo, but still?
[Thrasher, Fly-by] Gyrostabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor S [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Collision Accelerator I [empty rig slot]
At a much lesser cost, a cormy easily goes to the range of 60km and still does a nice 200+ alpha.
[Cormorant, Flyby Sniper] Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Indirect Scanning Dampening Unit I, Targeting Range Dampening Indirect Scanning Dampening Unit I, Targeting Range Dampening
125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S 125mm Railgun II, Spike S Small 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction /OFFLINE
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Setup images are at our forums, sorry, don't want to post them here, too big images.
Destroyers in a group are good for more than just salvaging. Don't sell them short, you'll regret it one day, in flames.
[Rupture, sniper] Inertia Stabilizers I Inertia Stabilizers I Reactor Control Unit I Gyrostabilizer I Tracking Enhancer I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead M [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
lower cost, more range, more alpha, more dps, more speed, more buffer, 2 extra slots, more flexibility.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.10.26 08:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ecatherina W on 26/10/2008 08:08:41
Originally by: Ulasim
rupture setup...
Not on topic, but I'll bite. Sure, you get a bit more than twice the speed (1670 m/s vs 680 m/s) but you increase the signature from 75 to 932. That means that while you increase your effective hitpoints from 3387 to 7901, you increase the chance of being hit by more than a factor 10... Somehow the tradeoff does not seem worth it.
Sorry, you don't win a brownie point in my book.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 26/10/2008 11:30:53 Well, while it's downtime, here's another setup.
Catalyst, Plexer
HIGH: 7x 150mm Railgun II w/ Spike S
MID: Sensor Booster II w/ Targeting Range
LOW: MAPC 2x Gallente Navy Mag Stab
DRONE: 1x Hobgoblin II
RIG: 1x Hybrid Collision Accelerator I 2x Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Costs a bucket of ISK but we're theorycrafting :)
With a 61km optimal and 63 km lock range with reasonable skills, it can hit frigs at warp-in from the cap point, or vice versa. With 368 alpha it'll one-volley most non-shield-tanked frigs into armor, and pop 'em if they're not quick on the warp-out - even an inty can't cross the distance fast enough to get under it's guns.
As for the Rupture setup, it is more damaging, better tanked, faster, and more versatile, but you can't take into a minor plex in FW - the gate admits T1 frigs and destroyers only.
Also I have my doubts it'd make a good anti-interceptor platform since even with low transversal medium guns are going to have a hard time hitting a such a tiny target, a fully bonused inty only has a sig radius of 200m2 or so, with the MWD running. |
Antarr Slagh
The Pillage People
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Amanda Wilkins
Originally by: Antarr Slagh
Congratulations, 40 mini cruisers took down two HACs. You're bad because you didn't kill them all. With 40 people, you should have more than enough tackle.
Congratulations. You managed to miss the point that it was not my team, but an Agony Unleashed Wolfpack - and you also managed to miss the point that these destroyers use alphastrikes and range, not tackling, as their primary means of engaging. Well done!!!
Congratulations. You forgot to realize that tackling is not a means of engaging, it's a matter of turning on your scrambler.
As has been mentioned before, you weren't good because destroyers are good, you were good because it was 10 to 1 odds.
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Nexus Kinnon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:46:00 -
[25]
Destroyers are fun to fly and they own most T2 frigates.
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Burn Mac
Minmatar The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.10.27 09:15:00 -
[26]
Thrasher of doom:
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II Empty
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captain skinback
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Posted - 2008.10.27 13:32:00 -
[27]
i been looking at these ships for a few days funny that a thread pops up my interest in them has sparked heres a setup i got on eft with my skills
lows overdrive injector system II interia staberlizer II
mids 1 min mwdII X5 prototype engine enervator
highs 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II 200mm autocannon II small nos
with my skills it flys at 2000m/s well at max its 2200. looking at it i think this ship is perfect for faction warfare plexing at least, mainly because its dirt cheap. it goes in to the plex and starts munching on all the frigs slower than it. only problem with that is it only goes at 2000m/s.... not much is going to be slower than it
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Nexus Kinnon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.27 14:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Burn Mac Thrasher of doom:
Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II 250mm Light Artillery Cannon II Empty
pretty sure you can fit 280s if you get a MAPC and have AWU V |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.27 15:00:00 -
[29]
Concept as DPS for a destroyer gang.
NMF: 300ihs dps @ 6ish (0.50ish tracking) SCO: 240ish dps @ 18ish (0.40ish tracking) yet you have to pray that there are repair drones or remote reppers around ;)
[Coercer, PVP:Bulldog] C3S Convection Thermal Radiator Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II
Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Energy Locus Coordinator I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] |
Laerise
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.28 07:30:00 -
[30]
Nothing kills drones faster than a gatling coercer, it will also benefit from the "lol coercer" syndrome which makes it unlikely that the ecm drones will be stuck on your Zealot buddy.
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