Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 06:41:00 -
[1]
As it stands amaar has recently become quite good again (not only for high SP characters) Perhaps, with the speed nerf in mind, they will also be the new FOTM pvp race who knows
But this post isnt about making good ships even better its about giving underused ships a role back with a pinch of uniqueness. I wont even go to frigates because under usage of them is traditional :) Lets start of with
The Augoror
As it stands currently its a prety pointless ship (and thats not saying the scythe is very good ether but at least it has a mining yield bonus and we are talking about Amarr here )
Its current bonuses are:
Special ability: 10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level. 10% bonus to capacitor need of energy transfer arrays per level. 500% bonus to range of energy transfer arrays. That coupled with the lowest ammount of possible turrets and the 5 mbit drone bay/capacity make it a very sub par ship indeed even in its own class! Not saying anybody does infact put guns or missiles on this shipclass but still for the sake of argument I will admit that is can field a somewhat sturdy tank better than the rest however My proposal to make it somewhat usefull again is to
Switch the "10% bonus to armor hitpoints per level" for "10% reduction of Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level" Good will increase the armor a bit but reduce its speed as to stay within the spirit of the decription Finaly increase the base capacitor capacitry to somewhere arround 1100 to ease the cap drain of medium remote reppers
The way i see it this wont make it a t1 uber logistics ship but will certainly enable newer characters to not feel left out when there is repair to be done at a pos for example (like the osprey)
The Maller Before the Omen got a 5th turret (wich could use some pg love btw) the Maller has been more the first choice of begining players simply because of its Tanking ability but with the "improved" Omen it has fallen a bit behind latly
In my eyes there are 2 things that stand out about the Maller
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use per level Its big brother the Sacrilege throwing all that out and using missiles instead The Sacrilege in particular got me thinking. Why not make the Maller a true evolutionary herritage ? Playing with this here is my proposal for the Maller :
Switch the "10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use per level" for the Sacrileges "5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile damage" Give it 5 Launcher Hardpoints
Alternativly just add the 5% heavy assault missile damage to make it a true split weapon system ship (even thou nobody would put lasers on it then and yes i know that would make it 3 bonuses) Rest stays as it is
Not only would this give the people that thought "Inquisitor... its gold and its got missiles ... awesome!" a reason to continue training the missile weapon system , it could potentialy make it a ship with a true split weapon system capability because it has bonuses to both and you can mix and match your weapons as you see fit! Its Damage and Tanking potential would have to be watched however so it doesnt exeed it but instead makes it a viable, interesting and diffrent alternative.
Wich brings us to
The Prophecy To keep it simple The problem :
Its completly outclassed by the Harbinger in every way exept for a somewhat longer staying power due to higher resists, wich the harbinger easily makes up for with the higher dps
Again i looked to its t2 brother to give me an idea on how to improve it
Add the "10% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile velocity" Give it a total of 6 Missile launchers
This would not only finalise the t1 equivalents of purifier, sacrilege, damnation but also give the prophecy a reason to exist again.
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 06:49:00 -
[2]
....continued
i do however see that the prophecy and the maller in my envisioned missile versions would have a massive advantage in the powergrid department something the sacrilege and the damnation do have!
the prophency however would redeem itself in being capable of easily fitting a warfare link in adition to the other necesary modules something battlecruisers and commandships have a tendancy of having a problem to do
so what do you guys think ? Would this create uber Amarr ? Are my ideas for split weapons ystems truly split ? Are my ideas just bonkers?
Let me know
p.s. this is still just about the Amarr ships... i know other races ships in the same classes have similar existentialist issues but im trying to find solutions for the Amarr ships
|
Kitti Kenzaki
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 14:00:00 -
[3]
Some ideas but you forgot something : Only Khanids use missiles boats, Amarrs favour Lasers.
In short : Sac and Damnation are Khanid ship > Missiles Maller and Proph are Amarrian ships > Lasers.
About Harbinger is better than Proph. As for Drake vs Ferox, Hurricane vs Cyclone... (aka tier 2 vs tier 1)
Nevertheless, changes about Augoror are quite interesting (except for Augoror Navy Issue).
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:44:00 -
[4]
Maller and Prophecy are pure Amarrian ship designs. Therefore they should use lasers. Amarr don't use missiles as main weapons.
The Maller could be boosted with more powergrid, since it has no drone bay and totally relies on either big guns (heavy beam/pulse) or big tank (plates). At the moment it can't fit a rack of heavy pulse lasers, a medium nosferatu, an afterburner and a medium armor repairer. I'm not saying this would be the most efficient way to fit a Maller currently, but it's pretty much a standard fit that's suggested by the ship's layout. It's similar with focused pulse lasers and a 1600mm plate. The Maller definitely lacks 120-200 MW.
The Prophecy should be boosted to 1400 MW base powergrid, for similar reasons.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Yussef
Amarr War is Bliss
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:47:00 -
[5]
The Augorer change seems ok. I don't know about going with missles for the Maller and Prophecy though. Also I absolutely agree with the above poster that the Maller needs more grid. I think that is basically the only thing holding it back. Furthermore I'm not necessarily sure I agree the Prophecy has a problem. The ship that outclasses it is after all more expensive.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:54:00 -
[6]
Maybe make the Maller and Prophecy laser snipers like the Apocalypse. Would at least give them a role different than any of the other Amarr ships in their classes. The Augoror, meh, anything really, though a armor rep and energy transfer bonus at the same time on a T1 ship might be a bit nber. Might use a cargo hold bonus, it's a slave transport after all.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 02:31:00 -
[7]
in regards to Amarr = Lasers, Khanid = Missiles
I considered that aswell and then came to the conclusion that "history" like that seems to be fluent in EvE after all only khanid mk2 made them missile spewing armor tanking monsters before that khanid where the ones with "the best shield systems outside of caldari space" (and still being armor tanked but thats another story) sacrilege still has 4 turret hardpoints from that era... similarly the player variants of Sansha ships have radicaly changed what they are aswell (nightmare used to be a split weapon system ship for example)
In adition, ships like the omen the prophecy and even the apoc do have missile launcher hardpoints. Amarr do have a frigate thats completly based on missiles The Stealth bomber is still made by Viziam (you know the makers of the hard tanking hard pewpewing laz0r ships )
So i see the whole thing "Amarr = Lazors" as a point that can be easily forgotten or easily easily "modified". And it has been modified in the past.
Now
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
The Maller could be boosted with more powergrid
I respectfuly have to dissagree. I dont think cruisers should be capable of carying the biggest guns AND be capable of doing anything else aswell. Thats the domain of Battlecruisers as for the glass cannon aproach the Maller could do this (if it whernt for the useless bonus), however the Omen cannot. If anything the Omen should get more powergrid to at least make it capable of being a glass canon out of the box
I guess the main issue with these ships is that their laser bonus 10% to laser turret capacitor use makes them very good for fitting projectile turrets but not much else so i thought: Why not spice things up and make diffrent ships more unique. The Khanids still can be the ones who take all the bad out of the ships and turn em into true the hardest tanking missile spewing monsters.
Finaly my reply to
Originally by: Abrazzar
he Augoror, meh, anything really, though a armor rep and energy transfer bonus at the same time on a T1 ship might be a bit nber. Might use a cargo hold bonus, it's a slave transport after all.
Yeah its a very iffy thing to do. I also considerd a cargohold bonus but then it wouldnt make the ship much more usefull. So my reasoning for the 10% cap use on remote reppers is It gives it a true use and its not getting a range bonus so the only thing it could effectifly do out in the field is give its cap to other ships something it already can do (and nobody in their right mind does )
|
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 07:40:00 -
[8]
Okay i agree that the Aurgoror is rather poorly bonused for it mission in life.
The Maller needs little or no loving, i fly around in very effective (all be it rather slow) fittings for it. The ship dose not need to be turned into i missile thrower, as pointed out above that it not the MO of the Amarr. Only the Khanid specialty ship yards convert the ship over tho throw missiles.
As for the Prophecy. I see no reason to change anything on this ship. Sure the Harbinger can out DPS a Prophecy. But I know of only one other battlecruiser that has the potential wall of hit points that the Prophecy can throw up. About the funniest thing i have seen is a Prophecy murdering a Harbinger with relitive ease.
Its not all about DPS, sometimes its all about out lasting the other guy. The Maller and the Prophecy are very well built for that purpose. Even their spiritual big brother (the Abaddon) which has a horrible cap consumption issue, is known for having more hit points then most ships know how to deal with. They are not perfect, they just take a rather different philosophy to fly.
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 13:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Balor Haliquin Okay i agree that the Aurgoror is rather poorly bonused for it mission in life.
The Maller needs little or no loving, i fly around in very effective (all be it rather slow) fittings for it. The ship dose not need to be turned into i missile thrower, as pointed out above that it not the MO of the Amarr. Only the Khanid specialty ship yards convert the ship over tho throw missiles.
As for the Prophecy. I see no reason to change anything on this ship. Sure the Harbinger can out DPS a Prophecy. But I know of only one other battlecruiser that has the potential wall of hit points that the Prophecy can throw up. About the funniest thing i have seen is a Prophecy murdering a Harbinger with relitive ease.
Its not all about DPS, sometimes its all about out lasting the other guy. The Maller and the Prophecy are very well built for that purpose. Even their spiritual big brother (the Abaddon) which has a horrible cap consumption issue, is known for having more hit points then most ships know how to deal with. They are not perfect, they just take a rather different philosophy to fly.
Amarr Missile ship
and Technicaly i tend to agree with you on the maller when you look at it as a solo ship tank is amazing for a cruiser and back in the nos days single handedly holding a raven till some dps arrived was quite quite thrilling but if i look at it from a tiny gang and upwards perspective its sort of a Me first ship... same with the prophecy unless it has a link and lets face it 99% of the players that will pilot it dont again dont get my wrong back in "The good old days" when the prophecy was the only amarr battlecruiser i used it to death and i still like its looks and i did have some odd moments where primarys where actualy switched away from me again but fankly i find it utterly useless nowerdays it runs far better with projectiles because lets face it the dps is useless anyways so why dont switch to guns that use no cap and arnt such a burned on the fittings and frankly i cannot explain how you say a prophecy murdering harbinger with ease unless only the prophecy pilot knew exactly what ship and what fittings he was up against even drones vs drones and just both *****tanking the harbinger would win ok perhaps it would be a close call i havent actualy tryd such a weired thing the point im trying to make in every single way the harbinger outclasses the prophecy exept resists in any case you have intrigued me to the point where id very much like to know this prophecy fitting
the potential wall you are looking for is called a drake btw
|
Jolene Obeng
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 15:16:00 -
[10]
What the Prophecy really needs is another slot, either mid or low.
|
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 18:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 29/10/2008 18:36:00
Originally by: IR Scoutar Now Originally by: Tarron Sarek
The Maller could be boosted with more powergrid
I respectfuly have to dissagree. I dont think cruisers should be capable of carying the biggest guns AND be capable of doing anything else aswell. Thats the domain of Battlecruisers
I think that's a rather unfounded argument. For example even with perfect skills you can't fit 7x Heavy Neutron Blaster II and a (named) MWD on a Brutix. I'd say measuring all ships of a class by the same yardstick usually doesn't help.
Currently the Maller isn't very popular. I think we can agree on that fact. Most of the time ships are unpopular because they lack dps. Therefore going all 'oh noes, this will be overpowered!' when talking about giving it some more grid so that it can be fitted for a bit more dps or tank doesn't make sense from my point of view. What you said can be applied to ships like the Thorax, which sport a considerable amount of drone space or other nice features. Whereas the Maller is a very onesided design which should at least be allowed to excel at that role.
I wasn't talking about making a good ship better. I was talking about a way to make an underused ship more popular.
The same goes for the Prophecy. Currently it has 200 MW less base powergrid, compared to the Harbinger. That's too much of a difference.
Maller and Prophecy both are no dps monsters. Even if they fit heavy beam/pulse. It's almost impossible to overpower them by giving them a bit more PG. Giving them the option to fit a mean tank without totally compromising their dps would be fair and balanced imho.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Tykkis
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 19:35:00 -
[12]
There is allready shortage on frigate and cruiser size laser ships. No need for new missile ships for caldari to quickly get access to.
Good Laser ships,BC or below(BS and up are good): HAC: Zealot BC: Harbinger T1 frigs: Punisher & Executioner Interceptor: Crusader (The other has bonus to rockets) Command ship: Absolution (The other has bonus to heavy assault missiles)
some whine and cheese: Retribution would be good but it has 1 mid slot...sad, other assault ship uses rockets
Here are ship classes that have no laser ship: Covert Ops (Anathema) bonus to rockets Interdictor (Heretic) bonus to rockets Combat recon (Curse) bonus to drones, has 2 turret and 4 launcher hardpoints Force recon (Pilgrim) bonus to drones, has 3 turret hardpoints Electronic assault ships & Stealth bombers have never bonuses to turrets
Lasers walk on thin ice. BS&BC are slowass boring and if amarr didn't have Zealot... there just aren't any choises.
I just hope CCP doesn't add more missile ships when they release T3 !
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |