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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.04 13:53:00 -
[121]
I wish this was back in ships and modules, some interesting discussion actually happened there ¼_¼
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Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:46:00 -
[122]
Its a excelent idear for a nearf i will give you that. The thing is that i dont aprove of nerfing the falcon at all.
Problem isnt as much just with range but in general people dont like bieng jammed - Thus we get a lot of whins about people who was not able to firre the guns at some random target.
This will reduce the Falcons power but you will still see a lot of people complaining about the falcon and its awesome power
So yes the falcon is a good support ship but it made from tin foil. If you force falcons into the optimal range of any ship (more specifically BS's in this case). If you miss a Jam you are dead.
The falcon works so well only cause its out side the normal optimal range (even with optimal range scripts) of who ever its trying to jam.
I see to solutions to this "problem".
- First one have already been mentioned, it was to buff the sensor damps slightly, so they had a bether chance as working as a counter for Falcons.
Its a excelent idear and would bring Damps back into the pictur and lets face it they are not really bieng used any more.
- Second solution is to give people a insentive to fit a ECCM Backup array rather then what they would normally fit.
Back when Damps wore the ultimate EW of the univers, people alwayes fittet a sensor booster which was a coutner measure for the Damp on a normal ship. People might have used it for something else but it sill worked as a countermeasure for the damps and it still does. So now the solution is to give people a insentive to fit a ECCM backup array. Solution is to give ECCM backup array a additional bonus more then just the boost to sensor strength, let it affect more then one stat. Then people will not be as likely to be jammed and it will solve a lot of problem.
You can argue to reduce the falcons optimal range bonus to 15% rather then 20% which would reduce it from the current 185 to about 140. I know your idear was to force falcons closer so they wouldnt go into there fall of range but lets face it, the falcon only does one thing (compared to its sister recons in the other races) and thats jamming, it doesnt deal damage, and it cant use drones. So forcing this ships into about 80km to be at optimal range will kill the role of the ship unless you give it a new secondary ability.
And lets face it, the secondari abileties havnt worked out that well for recons (just take a Arazu, Lacheeses and pilgrim).
I do however forsee the gallente recons getting a second genesis as there bonus also applies to the new Warp Scramblers, giving a effective point a range of
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Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.06 09:40:00 -
[123]
...
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.06 13:18:00 -
[124]
I'm liking this a lot. The Falcon still retains the covops cloak and the tactical advantages that come with it, but now gets an element of risk vs reward rather than jamming from 200km where it can only be hit be sniper battleships. Coming to 81km (or ~100km with optimal rigs) for full effectiveness means it needs to really be aware of long-range enemy ships, and likewise it's a lot more feasible to have ships that can fire out to these ranges than to the Falcon's current optimal.
It also gives the Rook some relevance, as it exchanges long-range jamming power for the element of surprise.
Signed.
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Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:57:00 -
[125]
~~
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Adaera
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:27:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
Originally by: Terianna Eri I like it, very elegant way to make falcons have to make a choice between jamming power and range while using the current game mechanics.
I take it the other ECM ships (rook mostly) will retain their old bonuses, and that the falcon has to make this choice in exchange for the cloak that it gets?
Correct.
That pretty much sold it for me. A good tradeoff for an excellent defensive module. /supported
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.11.07 12:41:00 -
[127]
[APPROVED]
When can we expect implemention?
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ezraniel
Caldari 0ccam's Razor UNLeashed Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:09:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Dibsi Dei [APPROVED]
When can we expect implemention?
Hopefully never.
I'm a full fledged main falcon pilot and this idea will pretty much kill the Falcon as a ship if you just cut down its range like this.
As someone before me on the other page said, people just don't like being jammed, and that's probably what causes all this feedback against the falcon.
Forcing a falcon to engage at aproxx. 80KM of a target will put it in range of everyone and its mother(Eagle, Cerberus, BS's, Arazu, Rapier, ....) which makes it go *POP* everytime you don't get a lock.
All the other recons/ships have a (small?) buffer to mitigate any possible damage, while a falcon if it loses a cycle, or has to many targets up against it just goes *POP* in 2 seconds of fire.
I really don't see any point at all in nerfing the falcon unless your sole intent is to completely render the ship useless. (at 80Km's flying blackbirds with T2 fitting'd prolly be cheaper and almost as affective...)
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.11.07 21:37:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Dibsi Dei on 07/11/2008 21:40:02
Originally by: ezraniel
Originally by: Dibsi Dei [APPROVED]
When can we expect implemention?
Hopefully never.
I'm a full fledged main falcon pilot and this idea will pretty much kill the Falcon as a ship if you just cut down its range like this.
As someone before me on the other page said, people just don't like being jammed, and that's probably what causes all this feedback against the falcon.
Forcing a falcon to engage at aproxx. 80KM of a target will put it in range of everyone and its mother(Eagle, Cerberus, BS's, Arazu, Rapier, ....) which makes it go *POP* everytime you don't get a lock.
All the other recons/ships have a (small?) buffer to mitigate any possible damage, while a falcon if it loses a cycle, or has to many targets up against it just goes *POP* in 2 seconds of fire.
I really don't see any point at all in nerfing the falcon unless your sole intent is to completely render the ship useless. (at 80Km's flying blackbirds with T2 fitting'd prolly be cheaper and almost as affective...)
Fit LSE and stay aligned.
Also observe the grid, see what range you can start jamming people from. If it's too hot, go a little further away and you can still work in falloff, even if the efficiency isn't 100%. Just like the Minmatar do.
Edit: Also note the op's calculations are on Gallente ships, other ships have lower sensor strength so the figures are actually higher.
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Korovyov
Luminous Love Brewery
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Posted - 2008.11.07 21:53:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Win.
I want it, and I want it now.
--=--=-- end of post --=--=--
got booze? |
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quisno
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Posted - 2008.11.07 23:22:00 -
[131]
hey y nerf it put afew more books in there to muddy the waters . let make books to make veladors into jammers.
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Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.10 15:51:00 -
[132]
Thanks for the support vOv
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Nexus Kinnon
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:53:00 -
[133]
Originally by: quisno hey y nerf it put afew more books in there to muddy the waters . let make books to make veladors into jammers.
wat
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.23 03:05:00 -
[134]
may as well +1 this
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:18:00 -
[135]
I'm baffled really. This is actually a very good and sensible solution! Many thumbs up dude!
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Mikhale Romanov
Black Hats Delta
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Posted - 2008.11.25 20:07:00 -
[136]
Two flaws I see:
Quote: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use and -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
The CPU reduction should still be on the recon ships side of the equation as it makes fitting the ship (for newer players without max skills) a bit more difficult until they achieve Recon IV/V (this is going off EFT.. as I cannot fly a falcon). Even with Recon ships IV the Cov ops cloaker still uses 100CPU and the 25ish day (with average stats) would prevent a lot of people from maxing their falcons CPU efficiency. You do mention this in your post I just thought I would reiterate it.
The second issue I see is The Blackbird will somewhat replace the falcon Due to the Opti bonus on the Blackbird that would remain. It is 20%/Lvl and MUCH cheaper/easier to fly. Existing falcon pilots would just flip to the BB and not care about losing them as they would all have Max bonus from the ship. Thoughts?
ZOMG Communism! |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 09:36:00 -
[137]
I like this.
// low sec Falcon pilot (no idea on Falcons in 0.0) -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today. |
Nikunai
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Posted - 2008.11.26 10:38:00 -
[138]
Hey if ccp can squeeze this nerf in before the new year, between this and missiles, we can call this the "Great Caldari Nerf of 2008"
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VoiceInTheDesert
Gallente Diplomatic Disruption
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:19:00 -
[139]
Bumpz.
Old topic, great idea, ccp plz :)
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:38:00 -
[140]
I fly falcons occasionally. I support this falloff risk/reward trade off.
Voluntold, New Webcomic
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My'kel An'jelo
Amarr Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.12.17 15:17:00 -
[141]
~sneaky alt bump~
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agroculture two
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Posted - 2008.12.17 15:27:00 -
[142]
signed, that's the only good caldari ship u forgot to nerf. should i start to train for blasters and megathron now?
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Gantor Tesla
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Posted - 2008.12.17 16:32:00 -
[143]
I thought the total lack of a tank and no DPS was a good trade off. The Falcon is fine, you just don't want to fit ECCM. IF the Falcon has to get in close, it needs HAC resistances, o wait, then it'd be a ROOK!
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Blood Titan
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Posted - 2008.12.17 17:58:00 -
[144]
/signed
*bump*
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VoiceInTheDesert
Gallente Diplomatic Disruption
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Posted - 2008.12.18 17:48:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Gantor Tesla I thought the total lack of a tank and no DPS was a good trade off. The Falcon is fine, you just don't want to fit ECCM. IF the Falcon has to get in close, it needs HAC resistances, o wait, then it'd be a ROOK!
My only point is that every other ewar in the game has short range. I don't see why the best ewar in the game, by far, (ecm) has triple the range of everything else.
I don't see why Falcons/Rooks are the only recons in game that can still be 100% effective outside of gate gun range.
And just for the record, ECCM makes it harder to jam, you, but even with one fitted, it's just a little more difficult to jam you...you will still be jammed for several 20 second cycles (an eternity in pvp).
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2008.12.23 11:35:00 -
[146]
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
I don't see why Falcons/Rooks are the only recons in game that can still be 100% effective outside of gate gun range.
I guess its because CCP wants ECM to be an option in fleet fights.
For all i know ECM and ECCM is working in perfect harmony in big fleet fights, but they do not in small gang action.
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Grumber1
Caldari Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.12.23 11:59:00 -
[147]
this idea is the best ive ever heard :)
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2008.12.29 19:54:00 -
[148]
Still a decent Idea. Cheers Nexus Kinnon, I referenced your idea here, though sadly I didn't give you credit for it --
Don't harsh my mellow |
Sean Faust
Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.29 21:14:00 -
[149]
Please for the love of god implement this change! Best idea heard all year!
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.30 00:15:00 -
[150]
Really good idea OP. lovin the sig too.
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