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eliminator2
Gallente Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.10.29 09:05:00 -
[31]
i would think after the patch if nothin is done to fix the blasters or all bs that people will start running cruiser gangs and orbit the bs and just sit and watch it die a slow death and what could the bs do nothing nothing at all.at least it used to stand a chance against cruiser on wards but now it wont.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.29 09:23:00 -
[32]
meh I got sick of pvp a while ago as every minmatar ship I want to fly I know I'd be doing better off flying the caldari counterpart (which I can fly but prefer flying mini). So I was wondering could someone try some of the suggestions on how to adapt and tell me how they go? too busy and not enough pvp skills/experience to do this myself. I'd say give it a try, come back and ***** about how stupid you / ccp is for braking / fixing pvp. There's been plenty of whine threads lately from all races (amarr and caldari as well) if you aren't gonna try anything new in these then it's unlikely ccp will listen.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
SirDanceAlot
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Xenomorphea
Hyperion This is a slightly modified version of what I use for solo PvP on TQ, and a very similar build to what top Hyperion pilots such as Bellum Eternus use. If you want to get an idea about what this ship is capable of, go watch his awesome videos.
Highs: 8x Ion Blaster Cannon II (Void L / Null L) Mids: 100MN AB II, Heavy Cap Booster II, ECM (magnetometric), Warp Scrambler II, Fleeting Propulsion Inhibithor Lows: LAR II, DC II, 2x EANM II, 1600 plate, MagStab II Rigs: 2x Auxiliary Nano Pump, 1x Nanobot Accelerator Drones: 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Vespa EC-600
[continues]
Stopped reading right there.
1. Who the **** cares about bellum the epic whiners fits?
2. Fit dual webs you epic noob. Your whole test is worthless piece of crap. Fit dual webs and stfu.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Raguun * Going to pvp with prepatch fit = FAIL (think about changes?) * Going with T2 Ammo against subBS ship = FAIL ( I saw Faction ammo on blaster boats even against BSes. Ever saw their tracking drawback?) * Medium ECM drones = FAIL (if you want to jam him take large ECM ones or Ogres II ) * You knew the oponent to fit propper jam = FAIL (if you knew him, fit second web > Target painted > Tracking computer at least? They all will solve your tracking issue greatly) Basicly what you did was testing how prepatch fit is doing after nerf. EVERYONE knew that blasters were nerfed!!!! Damn first try to adapt not just go to forum wining how you dont know how to fit ship now? You know lots of fits will have to change after this patch not just your Hyperions.
This is my opintion about this "test". Next time send someone more inovative to test ships.
An afterburner and a single ECM is a 'pre-patch fit'? m'kay... --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:34:00 -
[35]
Care to explain why the blaster BS pilot doesn't know that both version of T2 Blaster ammo has tracking penalties? I'm a projectile user and I don't even need to look it up, t2 hail short range ammo has insane .5 penalties to tracking and falloff while t2 barrage short range has .75 tracking and +50% to falloff. If I or my target is moving much at all, hail is useless which is why I rarely use it. Now that webs are nerfed, I wouldn't be caught dead putting Hail L into anything.
Try again with T1 ammo (faction is not seeded on sisi) Also try webbing your target and dictating range at 6-8km. I have used turret BS in missions with short range guns (no web) and you have to cut down the transversal. I don't see why it is so difficult to keep range and transversal at 6-8km from a 60% webbed astarte. He is going around 70m/s and you are going around twice that with AB while webbed? Shouldn't be too hard to do a look at target command and see if he is approaching or running away and align your ship accordingly.
I'm just stating what I would do as the latest sisi patch is down or something. But fitting your ship in a way that YOU KNOW IS DUMB and then whining about it when you don't even know much about blasters yourself is dumb. Learn to play (try showing info on blaster ammo for starters) and then come back and talk to me. I'm not saying you are wrong and that blasters don't need fixing, but I am saying that the OP is using a faulty example because he is a noob. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Xenomorphea PS: no, you cannot have my stuff.
Even I would not have considered asking for your stuff, which is somewhat of a past time of mine - i'm not in the mood.
This is truly sad. A great game going down the pipes.
Oh, and let me say what everyone else won't say because their balls have shrunk up: **** Nozh. Designing a game isn't the same as playing a game. If your concepts go through, believe me that as a life-long gamer, I can tell you that your name will go down with the likes of John Smedley and Howard Scott Warshaw of gaming fail.
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Megan Maynard I'm a 0.0 blob warfare specialist and only have to push f1 and sit back so what do I care
Yeah...STFU
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ArmyOfMe
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:17:00 -
[38]
fit dual webs, at least until they fix eccm
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:59:00 -
[39]
Way to take 2 overtanked ships, and use them both in the least effective way possible to kill the other.
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC
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Posted - 2008.10.29 12:24:00 -
[40]
Interesting report, and one which shows some of the inherent problems with balancing.
By your account both ships were 'balanced' to such a high degree an effective stalemate occured. As some other posters have pointed out a few alterations to fittings could have tipped the fight either way. But thats not so suprising - if you consider ISK cost skills required for a BS vs a Command BC they're fairly close.
CCP have said theyd like battles to last longer and if so new mechanics such as sub-system targeting might become viable. 18 Minutes sounds a bit excessive but certainly within a ball park area to allow such mechanics to be realised.
C.
Originally by: Tarminic Your continued whining is somewhat diminished by your continued willingness to give your money to CCP.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tnam Way to take 2 overtanked ships, and use them both in the least effective way possible to kill the other.
Exactly, it is bull**** propaganda. It's like saying vengeance/damnation/vulture is broken because they can't break their own tanks. I do sometimes wonder if people think we are THAT stupid to fall for a joke "test" like this.
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:16:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Xenomorphea on 29/10/2008 14:18:46 It is interesting to find out where these qualified comments come from ...
Originally by: SirDanceAlot
Stopped reading right there. 1. Who the **** cares about bellum the epic whiners fits? 2. Fit dual webs you epic noob. Your whole test is worthless piece of crap. Fit dual webs and stfu.
SirDanceAlot started EVE in Jan 2008, and never left the Federal Navy Academy. A brillian career for a PvP pilot!
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Tnam Way to take 2 overtanked ships, and use them both in the least effective way possible to kill the other.
Exactly, it is bull**** propaganda. It's like saying vengeance/damnation/vulture is broken because they can't break their own tanks. I do sometimes wonder if people think we are THAT stupid to fall for a joke "test" like this.
Amira Shadowsong starte EVE in Dec. 2007, and never left the State War Academy. Just FYI, the Vengeance is an Assault Frigate, while Damnation and Vulture are Fleet Command Ships. And your point would be?
For the record, the test pointed out how both ships could not deal any decent damage, not how they outtanked each other. As for dual webs - sure you can fit dual webs on a few BS (certainly not on a mega) but the whole point is that this should not be required when using short range weaponry to hit a target as large (and as slow) as a BC at you OPTIMAL. Do you get it?
Cheers, Xeno
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Raguun
LDK Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 29/10/2008 14:18:46 It is interesting to find out where these qualified comments come from ... ... SirDanceAlot started EVE in Jan 2008, and never left the Federal Navy Academy. A brillian career for a PvP pilot! ... Amira Shadowsong starte EVE in Dec. 2007, and never left the State War Academy. Just FYI, the Vengeance is an Assault Frigate, while Damnation and Vulture are Fleet Command Ships. And your point would be?
For the record, the test pointed out how both ships could not deal any decent damage, not how they outtanked each other. As for dual webs - sure you can fit dual webs on a few BS (certainly not on a mega) but the whole point is that this should not be required when using short range weaponry to hit a target as large (and as slow) as a BC at you OPTIMAL. Do you get it?
Cheers, Xeno
Ever heard about posting with alts? Most ppl flood in CAOD with alts couse they cant/dont want with mains and they dont bother to change posting chars.
And about you. You did quite good countering Astarte damage, you basicly now need to refit your damn ship to be able deal your damage. Read some comments and ****ing try them instead of stating some stupid your ideas about how game should be. If you cant track someone fit modules whitch increase you tracking abilities.
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eliminator2
Gallente Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Typhado3 meh I got sick of pvp a while ago as every minmatar ship I want to fly I know I'd be doing better off flying the caldari counterpart (which I can fly but prefer flying mini). So I was wondering could someone try some of the suggestions on how to adapt and tell me how they go? too busy and not enough pvp skills/experience to do this myself. I'd say give it a try, come back and ***** about how stupid you / ccp is for braking / fixing pvp. There's been plenty of whine threads lately from all races (amarr and caldari as well) if you aren't gonna try anything new in these then it's unlikely ccp will listen.
done it cross trained amarr and im gallenete both races are failing and i dont see point in waisting my time training for another race when maybe next patch or a few patches later that will be nerfed and then i have to restart a new race again it just doesnt do it for me it seems more like a job that your paying for nowadays which is not what im looking for
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:24:00 -
[45]
Fit civilian turrets, will hit for MAX damage!
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Xenomorphea Edited by: Xenomorphea on 29/10/2008 14:28:22 It is interesting to find out where these qualified comments come from ...
Originally by: SirDanceAlot
Stopped reading right there. 1. Who the **** cares about bellum the epic whiners fits? 2. Fit dual webs you epic noob. Your whole test is worthless piece of crap. Fit dual webs and stfu.
SirDanceAlot started EVE in Jan 2008, and never left the Federal Navy Academy. A brillian career for a PvP pilot!
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Tnam Way to take 2 overtanked ships, and use them both in the least effective way possible to kill the other.
Exactly, it is bull**** propaganda. It's like saying vengeance/damnation/vulture is broken because they can't break their own tanks. I do sometimes wonder if people think we are THAT stupid to fall for a joke "test" like this.
Amira Shadowsong started EVE in Dec. 2007, and never left the State War Academy. Just FYI, the Vengeance is an Assault Frigate, while Damnation and Vulture are Fleet Command Ships. And your point would be?
For the record, the test pointed out how both ships could not deal any decent damage, not how they outtanked each other. As for dual webs - sure you can fit dual webs on a few BS (certainly not on a mega) but the whole point is that this should not be required when using short range weaponry to hit a target as large (and as slow) as a BC at you OPTIMAL. Do you get it?
Cheers, Xeno
Do I get it? You're the one that is dumb. Anyone with more then 1 iq can see why this whole thread is a joke.
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Tsual
Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:02:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xenomorphea
Highs: 8x Ion Blaster Cannon II (Void L / Null L)
Erm am I reading item database correctly meaning that Void and Null both decrease tracking further by 25% or 50%?
******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence.
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:34:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Do I get it? You're the one that is dumb. Anyone with more then 1 iq can see why this whole thread is a joke.
Please stop trolling and embarassing yourself: if you have nothing constructive to say, just ignore the thread.
Thanks, Xeno
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tsual
Originally by: Xenomorphea
Highs: 8x Ion Blaster Cannon II (Void L / Null L)
Erm am I reading item database correctly meaning that Void and Null both decrease tracking further by 25% or 50%?
This is correct, which is why on TQ I opt for faction AM, as stated in the OP. The tracking reduction was never a major issue against a BC class hull when webbers had 90% efficiency. Maybe T2 ammo should be "rebalanced" considered the new webber stats.
Cheers, Xeno
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:51:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Xenomorphea
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Do I get it? You're the one that is dumb. Anyone with more then 1 iq can see why this whole thread is a joke.
Please stop trolling and embarassing yourself: if you have nothing constructive to say, just ignore the thread.
Thanks, Xeno
Uhm what? You're the one saying it is silly to expect a hype to fit dual webs. Mega has one web sure, but it has more tracking aswell. Who is the one trolling?
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:28:00 -
[51]
t2 short range ammo is designed for targets of like size or greater, get over that. the web nerf is coming, get over that. Things are going to be working as intended, so find out how to adapt. "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Aranu Ryn
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:44:00 -
[52]
TRACKING SPEED MULTIPLIER 0.5 x
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Talia Windheart
Minmatar Fat J Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Talia Windheart on 29/10/2008 20:24:21 I've not logged onto Sinq yet but i will try tonite.. on TQ i use this fit. YES IT IS A GANG FIT.
[Megathron, Neutron/Buffer] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction /OFFLINE
Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
about 736ish DpS, can easly stand toe toe with it self or another gank bs and do well, the offline LRAR is for a heatsink if you need to overload the weapons. But after reading the changes the way things sound megathron will be sideline or longrange only witch is horrible :(. anyone who's been on sinq tell me how this style setup now plays.. ofc swaping mwd for ab. i don't see it being very usefull anymore :(
KNC4LIFE |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:43:00 -
[54]
3 eanm?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Talia Windheart
[Megathron, Neutron/Buffer] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I
I hope you don't plan on moving to get into range?
Quote: about 736ish DpS, can easly stand toe toe with it self or another gank bs and do well, the offline LRAR is for a heatsink if you need to overload the weapons. But after reading the changes the way things sound megathron will be sideline or longrange only witch is horrible :(. anyone who's been on sinq tell me how this style setup now plays.. ofc swaping mwd for ab. i don't see it being very usefull anymore :(
Well, it might stand ok if it could get into range of another ship, but strictly speaking you'd be better off with 1 plate and hardeners. At least then your RR gang would have a chance to help you more effectively.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR www.kwikdeath.org |
Talia Windheart
Minmatar Fat J Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.30 01:45:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Talia Windheart on 30/10/2008 01:45:16
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Talia Windheart
[Megathron, Neutron/Buffer] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Internal Force Field Array I
I hope you don't plan on moving to get into range?
Quote: about 736ish DpS, can easly stand toe toe with it self or another gank bs and do well, the offline LRAR is for a heatsink if you need to overload the weapons. But after reading the changes the way things sound megathron will be sideline or longrange only witch is horrible :(. anyone who's been on sinq tell me how this style setup now plays.. ofc swaping mwd for ab. i don't see it being very usefull anymore :(
Well, it might stand ok if it could get into range of another ship, but strictly speaking you'd be better off with 1 plate and hardeners. At least then your RR gang would have a chance to help you more effectively.
-Liang
as i stated its a gang ship aka we have it tackled need a decent hitter or bait since it lasts for a long long time. it is not ment to primary tackle and i've gotten many many kills with one.
KNC4LIFE |
Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:52:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Xenomorphea on 30/10/2008 06:53:12
Originally by: Talia Windheart Edited by: Talia Windheart on 29/10/2008 20:24:21 I've not logged onto Sinq yet but i will try tonite.. on TQ i use this fit. YES IT IS A GANG FIT.
[Megathron, Neutron/Buffer]
about 736ish DpS, can easly stand toe toe with it self or another gank bs and do well, the offline LRAR is for a heatsink if you need to overload the weapons. But after reading the changes the way things sound megathron will be sideline or longrange only witch is horrible :(. anyone who's been on sinq tell me how this style setup now plays.. ofc swaping mwd for ab. i don't see it being very usefull anymore :(
Well, the main issues for Blaster-BS on Sisi are in a 1 vs 1 (BS vs smaller ship) or 1 vs multi (BS vs multiple smaller ships). In a 1 vs 1 (BS vs BS) scenario not much has changed, except that you might want to use a scrambler to offline your opponent MWD, and you might want to fit an AB instead of a MWD to dictate range once at optimal.
In a 5 vs 5 up to 10 vs 10 BS gang scenario, I think most TQ setups should still work fine with minimal tweaking. Of course with a RR Blasterthron you have to face this critical choice: 1. fit a MWD so you can get at optimal fast, but once you are scrambled your mobility is reduced to 0, so you not only have a hard time to get at optimal, but you might not manage to keep in the limited RR range from the rest of your gang. 2. fit an AB and take forever to get at optimal, but retain a certain degree of mobility when scrambled.
About your specific setup, I think that using no damage mods AND only 6 turrets are too many tradeoffs for tank vs damage and kind of negates the main purpose of using a Megathron, which is to deal the max. amount of damage in the least amount of time. I would recommend swapping an EANM for at least 1 MagStab, and if you do fit 2 RRs try to online both of them. If you have CPU issues, swapping a second EANM for an Adaptive Plating II might help. But I personally prefer using all 7 turrets and 2 MagStabs, as you cannot run 2x RR for very long without depleting your cap anyway.
If you prefer the vast amount of EHP instead of high DPS approach, I think you should consider using other ships that are better at that. For example the Abaddon, thanks to its resistance bonus, can easily manage 284000 EHP (with low grade slaves and gang bonus) vs. about 220000 EHP of your setup. It can still fit a local LAR and deals the same amount of damage of your setup (about 750 dps) at a much higher range (15-20 km with Multifrequency, or over 45 km with less damage if you switch to Scorch). Or if you prefer RR setups, the Geddon is an excellent ship. These are the reasons why I crosstrained Amarr, because I think these BS are generally better in gangs larger than 5.
Cheers, Xeno
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Talia Windheart as i stated its a gang ship aka we have it tackled need a decent hitter or bait since it lasts for a long long time. it is not ment to primary tackle and i've gotten many many kills with one.
Um, I used to get tons of kills in a T1 fit Vexor... doesn't make it a fantastic ship fitting. ;-)
That said, I was trying to tell you ways that you can sacrifice a fairly minimal amount of EHP in return for vast improvements in your RR (GANG) tank. Also, don't forget about overloading hardeners.
But really now, if you didn't want comments on your fit, why bother asking for them? I'd never fly a Mega like that - if I wanted to do something like that I'd use a Domi.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR www.kwikdeath.org |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:04:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/10/2008 09:04:46
Originally by: Liang Nuren
That said, I was trying to tell you ways that you can sacrifice a fairly minimal amount of EHP in return for vast improvements in your RR (GANG) tank. Also, don't forget about overloading hardeners.
Well, tbh, I prefer having a minimum of 2 plates, it is very hard to get good EHP without at least two plates. People get jammed and/or need a bit of time to respond, RRs don't boost you right off but at cycle end... imo, without at least 120K EHP you're way too fragile, and it is very nice to have 150K+ EHP in a gang.
After that, when we consider hardeners, well, meh -> I would not fly without 3 hardeners + EANM (hey, without at least a EANM... laser ship meets tri-hardened setup) + DC II/EANM, which is 7 slots. Great for a Dominix, but on turret-based ships you really want one damage mod at least.
Burning to targets is not a concern, you don't do it anyway. Which is why Mega sucks for the job anyway.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:24:00 -
[60]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 30/10/2008 09:26:00 So, big ships now don't work whilst unsupported? Not seeing the problem here. Blobs of all BS were boring anyway. -- 249km locking? |
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