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Kayosoni
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:07:00 -
[1]
CCP you have my blessing for this patch. The changes to speed will do wonders for making fleet fights fun again.
just wait and see. -----------------------------------
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Kayosoni CCP you have my blessing for this patch. The changes to speed will do wonders for making fleet fights fun again.
just wait and see.
Totally agree.
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Nye Jaran
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:18:00 -
[3]
I don't know about the massive fleet fights, but I know that the upcoming patch has actually got my corp active again in preparation. So much awesome stuff is coming out it makes up for EA.
The speed change is eh, too many things outside of nano still getting nerfed way too hard (my opinion) by the changes. The possibility of changing 0.0 local though.... *drools*
We might actually be able to play Eve the way we have all REALLY wanted to for a long time.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.29 11:36:00 -
[4]
I see nothing good about these changes unless you count encouraging blobbing to be a good thing, ppl will say screw that lets just bring a bigger blob and spam dps......crap changes and only good for ppl who play eve and pvp in their heads, paper tiger nerfing FTL.
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El Mauru
Amarr Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 12:11:00 -
[5]
Actually agree with the op. All the testing I did on sisi in the various setups so far has been more fun than i imagined it to be. About the blobbing thing: We'll have to see I guess. BS blobs will still be too difficult to maneuver around with on a large scale and using dictors to hold up pursuing blobs will be as effective as never before. -
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kayosoni CCP you have my blessing for this patch. The changes to speed will do wonders for making fleet fights fun again.
just wait and see.
No offence m8 but we are not all that into fleet fights, though I can't argue with you that it does buff blobing quite a bit.
Assuming you are the original Kayasoni though, with all the stuff your account has done in pvp I am somewhat surprised you still get kicks from blob v blob.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:15:00 -
[7]
Wow, this thread couldn't be more ambiguous if it tried.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.29 15:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shard Merchant Wow, this thread couldn't be more ambiguous if it tried.
What do you expect lol, the anti nerf guys and gals are posting problems along with examples from the test server showing how screwed up this whole idea is, while the best we get from the pro nerfits is:-
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Kayosoni CCP you have my blessing for this patch. The changes to speed will do wonders for making fleet fights fun again.
just wait and see.
Totally agree.
Nothing like a detailed and highly technical report from the nerf hounds to boost support for this disgrace to gaming skill and ability.
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Shard Merchant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:41:00 -
[9]
You mean like the detailed and highly technical reports I posted all over?
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Marconus Orion
Amarr Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.29 16:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Murina
I see nothing good about these changes unless you count encouraging blobbing to be a good thing, ppl will say screw that lets just bring a bigger blob and spam dps......crap changes and only good for ppl who play eve and pvp in their heads, paper tiger nerfing FTL.
NOTHING will ever make people decide NOT to bring more numbers. People want to win, and no matter what game changes happen, superior numbers will always be a tactic.
Enough about the "(insert any change here) encourages blobbing!" Its getting really old. Players will always, always blog if they have the people to do it.
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Kayosoni
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:01:00 -
[11]
What I mean is, to put it kind of vaguely, the current fleet warfare of bringing all BSs and some token support + dictors/hictors will not work after the patch. It will require much more fleet diversification. It's pretty obvious why and what's going to happen in fleet battles if you think about it for 10 minutes. -----------------------------------
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Ass Eels
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:10:00 -
[12]
I have thought about it for 10 minutes.... everyone will sit in a bubble and get DD'd, that is what will happen. Alternately everyone will fight at 0km because of the boredom involved in moving :)
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:12:00 -
[13]
Good for fleet fights, absolute **** for everything else.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kayosoni ...will require much more fleet diversification...
My guess is we'll see standard fleets with tacklers/dictors/hics, nanos, and battleships. Not much different than today.
Running gangs of pure battleships won't be as viable but lets face it. Pure battleship gangs are mostly a low sec thing. Gangs of just hacs might be viable still to gank ratters etc.
So the only difference is that the ratio of battleships/nanos change.
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Kayosoni
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Veldya Good for fleet fights, absolute **** for everything else.
honestly it's not really different from how it is now. battleships cannot hit frigs/cruisers, and since webs are 60% only, frigs webbed still have a chance to live, and cruisers webbed by battleships also still have a chance to live. -----------------------------------
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Kayosoni
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Kayosoni ...will require much more fleet diversification...
My guess is we'll see standard fleets with tacklers/dictors/hics, nanos, and battleships. Not much different than today.
Running gangs of pure battleships won't be as viable but lets face it. Pure battleship gangs are mostly a low sec thing. Gangs of just hacs might be viable still to gank ratters etc.
So the only difference is that the ratio of battleships/nanos change.
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi. hacs are useless against frigates now. interceptors will be for tackling targets with MWDs (dictors/hictors) and AFs will excel at killing hacs/recons. I dunno if hacs will even be useful at all since they have been relegated to a role in fleet fights that battleships do - killing bs and cruisers. -----------------------------------
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kayosoni What I mean is, to put it kind of vaguely, the current fleet warfare of bringing all BSs and some token support + dictors/hictors will not work after the patch. It will require much more fleet diversification. It's pretty obvious why and what's going to happen in fleet battles if you think about it for 10 minutes.
People take BS and T2 ships because they are generally the only ships that can survive DDs, can shoot at long range.
Lack of range is the main reason why smaller ships aren't of much use.
If more smaller ships are going to be more common then fleets will just employ a few more tacklers. These changes do nothing really for fleet battles. Small ships still wont have range to do ****.
If frigate fleets become more common you will just see battleships load up with Warrior IIs instead of no drones and just use them for the small trash.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: lecrotta on 29/10/2008 17:34:52
Originally by: Kayosoni
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi.
In gang combat or are you preaching the ultra rare 1 v 1 scenario again?.
Originally by: Kayosoni hacs are useless
Snipped abit off but this is the first accurate thing you have posted.
Originally by: Kayosoni interceptors will be for tackling targets with MWDs (dictors/hictors) and AFs will excel at killing hacs/recons.
You think balance is AF's being i-win ships against 100mil + fittings ships?.
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: Veldya Good for fleet fights, absolute **** for everything else.
honestly it's not really different from how it is now. battleships cannot hit frigs/cruisers, and since webs are 60% only, frigs webbed still have a chance to live, and cruisers webbed by battleships also still have a chance to live.
At close range battleships moving at AB speed are going to take significantly less damage than they used to from BS class weapons. There is just going to be a whole lot of craptastic damage going on unless fleets are immobile.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:42:00 -
[20]
The only eve patch that has made me consider quitting EVE. I'll probably see a bit how it works out on tranq, but i'm leaning towards quitting atm.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Esmenet The only eve patch that has made me consider quitting EVE. I'll probably see a bit how it works out on tranq, but i'm leaning towards quitting atm.
I agree, horrible patch with too many residual nerfs. Not sure how it is great for fleets. I see less diversification as everyone now will be training amarr for their turret range/dmg over the other races gimpy ships. The patch is devestating to solo/small gang warfare, with the web nerf hurting the most. That is unless you enjoy flying AF, which i consider to be less than fun.
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kayosoni
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi. hacs are useless against frigates now. interceptors will be for tackling targets with MWDs (dictors/hictors) and AFs will excel at killing hacs/recons. I dunno if hacs will even be useful at all since they have been relegated to a role in fleet fights that battleships do - killing bs and cruisers.
Ammusingly the HAC that was the worst against fast ships is now the best, Cerberus using assault launcher will be able to take out AFs and Intys.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kayosoni fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters.
Maybe 1v1 at point blank. What I found was that if a hac could keep its distance then the af/ceptor would be torn up. A zealot and deimos did a number on my af's that I tested. And an ishtar with sentry drones setup for distance was murder at 100km. Just seems that frigs no longer pop nearly so quickly as they did before.
In fleet fights it is rarely 1v1.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Kayosoni fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters.
Maybe 1v1 at point blank. What I found was that if a hac could keep its distance then the af/ceptor would be torn up. A zealot and deimos did a number on my af's that I tested. And an ishtar with sentry drones setup for distance was murder at 100km. Just seems that frigs no longer pop nearly so quickly as they did before.
In fleet fights it is rarely 1v1.
/signed
I just tested a BC vs a ceptor that was orbiting at mwd and afterburner speeds and at range to simulate a situation where a ceptor would be tackling a gang member.
The ceptor got owned with pulse and beams so bad it was painful to watch.
This patch sucks.
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Keflin Geard
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kayosoni
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi. hacs are useless against frigates now. interceptors will be for tackling targets with MWDs (dictors/hictors) and AFs will excel at killing hacs/recons. I dunno if hacs will even be useful at all since they have been relegated to a role in fleet fights that battleships do - killing bs and cruisers.
15m ships slaughtering 120m ships on a level playing field makes no sense - the progression from cheap to expensive ships is what eve is about - People will just start flying lots of cheap ships and the people who get killed now will be the same people getting people killed after the patch - they just wont have much to aspire to and older players will die of boredom.
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:48:00 -
[26]
if you want to do away with blobs, drop all ships hit points down so low that the first to fire gets the kill and everyone else is left twiddling their thumbs!
Like that idea right? No, didn't think so, thus there is no solution to blobs.
Blobs exist to make fights end fast so people can fight in relative safely.
People are people, you can't fix blobs with speeding ships up, its just forcing them to call on people in dedicated ships.
1 to 'ecm'. 1 to 'web'. 1 to 'neut'. 1 to 'tank'. 1 to 'dps'. Yes, some freak 1v1 fights break out from time to time, but the large majority of those are corp mates 'testing' their skills. Man goes to the doc, with a strawberry growing out of his head. Doc says "I'll give you some cream to put on it." |
Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Spurty if you want to do away with blobs, drop all ships hit points down so low that the first to fire gets the kill and everyone else is left twiddling their thumbs!
Like that idea right? No, didn't think so, thus there is no solution to blobs.
Blobs exist to make fights end fast so people can fight in relative safely.
People are people, you can't fix blobs with speeding ships up, its just forcing them to call on people in dedicated ships.
1 to 'ecm'. 1 to 'web'. 1 to 'neut'. 1 to 'tank'. 1 to 'dps'. Yes, some freak 1v1 fights break out from time to time, but the large majority of those are corp mates 'testing' their skills.
That is bang on true for 0.0 pvp but not the case for lowsec or empire engagements. Small fights happen all the time, and arguably they are the most fun. At least in my experience (blobs and fleet warfare sux, mainly due to lag). My worry is that I wont be able to hold a target with one web long enough before it reaches a gate to jump out of a fight.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.10.29 18:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Keflin Geard
Originally by: Kayosoni
well, fact is nothing on sisi can hit assault frigs or interceptors except other assault frigs or inters. Even a vaga and ishtar can't hit my webbed hawk on sisi. hacs are useless against frigates now. interceptors will be for tackling targets with MWDs (dictors/hictors) and AFs will excel at killing hacs/recons. I dunno if hacs will even be useful at all since they have been relegated to a role in fleet fights that battleships do - killing bs and cruisers.
15m ships slaughtering 120m ships on a level playing field makes no sense - the progression from cheap to expensive ships is what eve is about - People will just start flying lots of cheap ships and the people who get killed now will be the same people getting people killed after the patch - they just wont have much to aspire to and older players will die of boredom.
agreed
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Spurty
People are people, you can't fix blobs with speeding ships up, its just forcing them to call on people in dedicated ships.
1 to 'ecm'. 1 to 'web'. 1 to 'neut'. 1 to 'tank'. 1 to 'dps'.
What you have their is variety and versatility not blobbing.
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August Guns
Minmatar Infinite ISK.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:10:00 -
[30]
All the nano patch does is move the FOTM from nanos to recons. August Guns |
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