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IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:00:00 -
[31]
meh i always thought amarr is more tank than gank (even at the age of the gankageddon) and since you cant do both at the same time ship is ether tank or gank most amarr ships are tank so when looking at t1 ships we got more tank than gank and the gank ships are excellent for laz0rz the tank ships can tank and dont shoot back much lasers are horrible on cap... something with youd want to have to tank so why not fit something else like um projectiles (no cap) or missiles (no cap) thats just the perks of these particular weapon systems
and if you want story mode an amarr would sooner fit missiles to a ship because they "are" caldari (and you know they are brosefs) rather than fitting something those flithy stinking rust covered slaves have built
soo why dont give em missile launchers aswell and change the even at lvl5 strange bonus of 10% cap use for something ether completly unrelated at weapons or a bonus that makes those alternative weapon systems nice but still keeps em from being "gank" ---------------------------------------
aditionaly what ever happened to those nice scifi idea of having secondary weapon systems ? i see drones as tertiary you know pewpewpewpewpew close to near medium range then missiles from close to far medium range and then super awesome pewpew for extreme ranges
actualy why am i bothering to write this ?... because im borred thats why!
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Misanth Sensitive matter.
I love and hate the Khanid change. The ships got alot better, admittedly. And I love the Sacrilege and Damnation as they are today. But at the same time I still never forgave CCP for "nerfing my laser ships".
Used to love having the option to fit Heavy Pulses on so many ships, one major factor I don't fly the cruiser-sized Amarr ships so much anymore is purely because of the lack of laser ships.
That's because omen is poo, maller is more poo
but the zealot pretty much makes up for that and then some __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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SSteejans
20th Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Khraunus Edited by: Khraunus on 29/10/2008 20:57:40 Hmm, maybe because caldari and gallente both use hybrids? Don't touch my sac. Boost the vengeance all you want, but so help me if you touch my sac...
this.... heed the warning. there will be hell to pay if my sacrilege gets messed up. _______________ if CCP's logs really never show anything, i have to wonder, do they even have logs? |
Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.10.30 06:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: SSteejans
Originally by: Khraunus Edited by: Khraunus on 29/10/2008 20:57:40 Hmm, maybe because caldari and gallente both use hybrids? Don't touch my sac. Boost the vengeance all you want, but so help me if you touch my sac...
this.... heed the warning. there will be hell to pay if my sacrilege gets messed up.
Forgot to mention that.
Touching my sac will be sacrilege. (bad pun alert)
But seriously, the ship owns hard as it is. BS don't see that tank coming. --------- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. Eve job list |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:08:00 -
[35]
LAZERS GO PEW PEW!!! OMG!!11one
Seriously, though, I have no idea what this thread is about. Something about some ships using lasers and some using hybrids. Y'know, I heard some ships use projectiles weapons.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:20:00 -
[36]
Moved to " Ships & Modules " forum. Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.30 07:33:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 30/10/2008 05:26:59
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra What are you talking about when you mention Ares, Enyo and Phobos as fail ships?
You mean apart from the fact that in general, they're somewhat weaker and crappier than most ships in their class, including other gallente ones - and that this plague of suckage extends through pretty much every ship Roden makes?
Granted, some are worse off than others, but they vary from 'mildly bad' to 'nigh unflyable'
Quote:
Have you ever flown one of them? I think not
You assume very much yet know very little
Ships are not good for all uses. Ares is a very effective interceptor and is the best at its intended role (pure tackler, unlike Taranis) for all races.
Phobos i have flown against and is a ship that while is not great for solo, is shining in small/medium gangs. Enyo with blasters is a very tricky situation which may result in glorious victories (rarely) or painful deaths (more often). But there are also the rails setup which i am very fond of.
In general Gallente ships are not for solo work, so if you use them like that you get a lot less than they can offer.
I see you are the one you assume too much. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Imaos
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tykkis
Originally by: Khraunus Edited by: Khraunus on 29/10/2008 20:57:40 Hmm, maybe because caldari and gallente both use hybrids? Don't touch my sac. Boost the vengeance all you want, but so help me if you touch my sac...
Exactly what i mean, if one amarr ship gets bad after a gameplay change, there is no alternative unless you wanna train half year for another weapon system. There is no way for another ship to even accidentally become good if for example zealot gets nurfbatted. It's do or die...
I dont know where your attributes are, but in half a year I could train 3 weapon systems (only counting guns) and I have a little too much charisma. Also missiles spec 2 is fast to train.
And amarr isnt the only faction with this minor problem. Guess what would happen if they nerfed the drake and boosted the vulture.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:32:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra In general Gallente ships are not for solo work
They aren't? __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:41:00 -
[40]
yeha i agree, khanid ****ed up Amarr if u ask meh.. wtf do we nee dmissles for.. its just terrible.. www.garia.net |
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:46:00 -
[41]
I agree, too few ships use lasers. Give Minmatar T2 ships laser bonuses and fittings.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.30 08:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Garia666 yeha i agree, khanid ****ed up Amarr if u ask meh.. wtf do we nee dmissles for.. its just terrible..
are people honestly complaining about the khanid ships?
the sacrilege is amazing and the only problem with the diction / vengeance is that rockets are terrible __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Terianna Eri are people honestly complaining about the khanid ships?
the sacrilege is amazing and the only problem with the diction / vengeance is that rockets are terrible
Dunno about that guy, but in my case; I already stated the Khanid ships are awsome. But I still dislike that they're not laser ships. Was taking the **** when I finally felt I mastered the frig/cruier/bc sized ships and boom, several of the ships I flew well suddenly needed new t2 weapon training. It took me well over a year before I accepted the thought of it. I flew with arbalest launchers for bloody long, refusing to get missile skills past lv1, simply because I been training for this;
a) lasers/guns b) drones c) armor tank
I'm not Caldari. I don't want missiles. Every single sp in missiles is a major failure to Misanth. I'd rather see Amarr be buddies with Gallente, screw Caldari, let them play with Minmatar, those two are missile nublets. Amarr and Gallente is the perfect crosstrain match. Screw background stories, etc.
Missiles on Amarr ships = SP sink = abomination = good way of CCP to slow down Amarr players progress.
That's why I dislike the Khanid change. Doesn't matter that the ships are actually good, for all I care they could be overpowered or crap, doesn't matter, having missiles on Amarr ships is disgusting.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Ships are not good for all uses. Ares is a very effective interceptor and is the best at its intended role (pure tackler, unlike Taranis) for all races.
Better as a pure tackler than a stiletto with its additional medslot?
Quote:
Phobos i have flown against and is a ship that while is not great for solo, is shining in small/medium gangs.
...but still subpar to the Onyx, Broadsword, and Devoter for tanking and midrange damage Quote:
Enyo with blasters is a very tricky situation which may result in glorious victories (rarely) or painful deaths (more often). But there are also the rails setup which i am very fond of.
Yes, but for most situations there's no reason to prefer the enyo over the ishkur. You lose a turret/launcher(lol), highslot, and lowslot for an extra med and a double flight of angry t2 droneswarmlings.
Quote:
In general Gallente ships are not for solo work, so if you use them like that you get a lot less than they can offer.
Can I has your drugs? Gallente ships, the good ones, mind you, have a decent enough balance of mids to tackle/inject, lows to armor buffertank or boost DPS, and highs/drones to melt people's faces. What's not good for soloing?
Quote: I see you are the one you assume too much.
lol _____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: IR Scoutar meh i always thought amarr is more tank than gank (even at the age of the gankageddon) and since you cant do both at the same time ship is ether tank or gank most amarr ships are tank so when looking at t1 ships we got more tank than gank and the gank ships are excellent for laz0rz the tank ships can tank and dont shoot back much lasers are horrible on cap... something with youd want to have to tank so why not fit something else like um projectiles (no cap) or missiles (no cap) thats just the perks of these particular weapon systems
and if you want story mode an amarr would sooner fit missiles to a ship because they "are" caldari (and you know they are brosefs) rather than fitting something those flithy stinking rust covered slaves have built
soo why dont give em missile launchers aswell and change the even at lvl5 strange bonus of 10% cap use for something ether completly unrelated at weapons or a bonus that makes those alternative weapon systems nice but still keeps em from being "gank" ---------------------------------------
aditionaly what ever happened to those nice scifi idea of having secondary weapon systems ? i see drones as tertiary you know pewpewpewpewpew close to near medium range then missiles from close to far medium range and then super awesome pewpew for extreme ranges
actualy why am i bothering to write this ?... because im borred thats why!
Please go outside and beat yourself repeatedly.
Most Amarr ships can tank and gank. Abaddon is f**king insane (at the expense of cap), Geddon is regarded as one of the better tanks in a BS fleet, Harb is suprisingly thick, sac is nuts...
Lasers pwn. We know they use cap. That's what 1600mm RTs are for. When something does the damage of a gank Megathron at 20km, I like it.
Have you ever considered flying (or at least talking to people who flew) a race's ships before you made uneducated comments on them? --------- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. Eve job list |
McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:19:00 -
[46]
you forgot all the sansha ships use lasers. Oh and Gallente/Caldari share hybrids, always been that way. Amarr ships all use lasers (cept arbitrator and curse), Khanid Ships use Missiles.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 09:24:00 -
[47]
I don't get this thread.
since there's not that many laz0r ships, and there are 2 races with basically the same gun system, you want more laz0r ships because there aren't enough laz0r ships because there are lots of hybrid ships due to the lack of laz0r ship-... wait.
eh?
I'm confused. this thread is making my brain meltdown. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.30 10:36:00 -
[48]
Amarrian ships probably still have less variety than the other races, particularly the Caldari.
Over-reliance on one weapons system gimps the whole line.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Tykkis
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:31:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Tykkis on 30/10/2008 11:35:29 Here is another take on the same issue.
Amarr T2 ship specialization: Assault ship: Laser and Rocket ship Command ship: Laser and Heavy Assault Missile ship Interceptor: Laser and Rocket ship Combat recon: Drone ship Covert Ops: Drone ship Force Recon: Drone ship Interdictor: Rocket ship Heavy Interdictor: Laser ship Electronic Attack Ship: EW ship (none of them specialize in weapons) Stealth Bomber: Cruise Missile ship (all of them are missile ships)
Amarr T2 ships(BC and below) have 4 laser, 1 EW, 2 drone and 5 rocket/missile specialized ships. Caldari allready having many missile ships and minmatar suffering with dual weapon systems, i don't think EVE gains much diversity by replacing laser ships with other weapon systems.
edit: I don't want to get rid of existing khanid ships, I just want to point out that future eve ship additions should focus more on lasers.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tykkis Covert Ops: Drone ship
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Tykkis
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Tykkis Covert Ops: Drone ship
Thx, fixed it.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.30 11:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Misanth overpowered missiles..
What eve are u playing and in what other paralell universe?
If you even LOOKED at the discussions lately, ull notice that missiles are getting "re-worked" by CCP, and moswt likely over-nerfed.
I wouldnt be complaining about ur amarr laser boats if i were you, considering everything other weapon besides rails (only sort of due to opti-rig nerf) is getting nerfed. EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:02:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Misanth on 30/10/2008 12:05:32
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Misanth overpowered missiles..
What eve are u playing and in what other paralell universe?
If you even LOOKED at the discussions lately, ull notice that missiles are getting "re-worked" by CCP, and moswt likely over-nerfed.
I wouldnt be complaining about ur amarr laser boats if i were you, considering everything other weapon besides rails (only sort of due to opti-rig nerf) is getting nerfed.
Re-read my posts and you will see that it's 50%+ joke. The thread you quote in particular. The smiley + the post I quoted and the way I replied (the /tinfoil for example, sarcasm over tinfoil posters) should give it away. If missiles were that powerful, wouldn't it be good that we had them on more and more Amarr ships too? Another thing that should give it away.
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Don J
Doom Guard
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:10:00 -
[54]
It mystifies me that a thread like this can get this long. I have alot of sp invested in Amarr kit, and i dont feel short-changed on the laser platforms available to me.
OP doesn't account for the inherent bias towards rails/blasters that exist in Caldari/Gallente ships despite being able to use both, and lists the helios as a viable hybrid platform, which, while strictly true, aint what that ship is about.
Looking at how the ship bonuses stack up, it's possible to create a case for the op's argument, but in terms of proper combat platforms it doesn't hold water imo.
That said, i sometimes wish the Heretic was a laser boat
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:12:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Don J That said, i sometimes wish the Heretic was a laser boat
I used mine with 4 pulses, 2 standard launchers, cloak and bubble launcher.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Misanth Edited by: Misanth on 30/10/2008 12:06:38
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Misanth overpowered missiles..
What eve are u playing and in what other paralell universe?
If you even LOOKED at the discussions lately, ull notice that missiles are getting "re-worked" by CCP, and moswt likely over-nerfed.
I wouldnt be complaining about ur amarr laser boats if i were you, considering everything other weapon besides rails (only sort of due to opti-rig nerf) is getting nerfed.
Re-read my posts and you will see that it's 50%+ joke. The one you quote in particular. The smiley + the post I quoted and the way I replied (the /tinfoil for example, sarcasm over tinfoil posters) should give it away. If missiles were that powerful, wouldn't it be good that we had them on more and more Amarr ships too? Another thing that should give it away.
OMG I got totally sucked in.. /facepalm EVE history
Missiles post-nerf |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:33:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Ships are not good for all uses. Ares is a very effective interceptor and is the best at its intended role (pure tackler, unlike Taranis) for all races.
Better as a pure tackler than a stiletto with its additional medslot?
Quote:
Phobos i have flown against and is a ship that while is not great for solo, is shining in small/medium gangs.
...but still subpar to the Onyx, Broadsword, and Devoter for tanking and midrange damage Quote:
Enyo with blasters is a very tricky situation which may result in glorious victories (rarely) or painful deaths (more often). But there are also the rails setup which i am very fond of.
Yes, but for most situations there's no reason to prefer the enyo over the ishkur. You lose a turret/launcher(lol), highslot, and lowslot for an extra med and a double flight of angry t2 droneswarmlings.
Quote:
In general Gallente ships are not for solo work, so if you use them like that you get a lot less than they can offer.
Can I has your drugs? Gallente ships, the good ones, mind you, have a decent enough balance of mids to tackle/inject, lows to armor buffertank or boost DPS, and highs/drones to melt people's faces. What's not good for soloing?
Quote: I see you are the one you assume too much.
lol
Better than Stilleto? maybe i haven't ever flown a Stilleto. Maybe not. It's among the best for sure though.
As for Phobos you did a great job in totally ignoring what i said, and answered something i didn't even brought up.
Enyo over Ishkur? Tough but when in big gangs Enyo has the advantage of tracking bonus and does a lot of good dps even with rails. While Ishkur is depended on drones a lot more, and may lose them if a hasty retreat is needed.
No you can't have my drugs, because i make extended use of them and i don't donate to freeloaders. The indeed good allocation of mids lows and highs is being negated by the fact that Gallente ships are very cap hungry. Armor tank and weapons are very demanding on the cap, thus making Gallente quite vulnerable on that area. Carrying cap boosters is limited by cargo bay. I think you can see the pic.
Going around solo is risky for every ship of every race, but Gallente ships work best when they are more than one. I didn't say it's impossible to solo in a Gallente ship mind you. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Tykkis
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Don J OP doesn't account for the inherent bias towards rails/blasters that exist in Caldari/Gallente ships despite being able to use both, and lists the helios as a viable hybrid platform, which, while strictly true, aint what that ship is about.
Looking at how the ship bonuses stack up, it's possible to create a case for the op's argument, but in terms of proper combat platforms it doesn't hold water imo.
Thx for the criticism, all comments and opinions are welcome. I'm not trying to affect or change anyones opinion and not saying any of those ships(laser/missile or hybrid) are/aren't viable or balanced.
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Mona X
Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Out of those supcapital amarr ships:
Bantam
Wat?
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:44:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Terianna Eri are people honestly complaining about the khanid ships?
the sacrilege is amazing and the only problem with the diction / vengeance is that rockets are terrible
Dunno about that guy, but in my case; I already stated the Khanid ships are awsome. But I still dislike that they're not laser ships. Was taking the **** when I finally felt I mastered the frig/cruier/bc sized ships and boom, several of the ships I flew well suddenly needed new t2 weapon training. It took me well over a year before I accepted the thought of it. I flew with arbalest launchers for bloody long, refusing to get missile skills past lv1, simply because I been training for this;
a) lasers/guns b) drones c) armor tank
I'm not Caldari. I don't want missiles. Every single sp in missiles is a major failure to Misanth. I'd rather see Amarr be buddies with Gallente, screw Caldari, let them play with Minmatar, those two are missile nublets. Amarr and Gallente is the perfect crosstrain match. Screw background stories, etc.
Missiles on Amarr ships = SP sink = abomination = good way of CCP to slow down Amarr players progress.
That's why I dislike the Khanid change. Doesn't matter that the ships are actually good, for all I care they could be overpowered or crap, doesn't matter, having missiles on Amarr ships is disgusting.
Caldari have to train missiles, hybrids and drones Minmatar have to train projectiles, missiles, drones as well as shield and armour tanking. Gallante have to train hybrids and drones, but they need to train heavy drones to use their premier HC. Amarr have to train lasers, drones and missiles, but they don't have to train large missile launchers which really soak up the SP.
I'm not seeing where Amarr are disadvantaged here. Amarr have the second lowest SP requirements to train all their racial weapons, after Gallante.
SP required:
Minmatar ---> Caldari -> Amarr -> Gallante
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