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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2012.04.05 14:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:wever if they reduce the influx of isk sufficiently we won't see much change in prices
What will happen regardless is a reduction in real economic activity. Reduced supply or minerals will naturally result in a decreased supply of finished goods.
I think it's an open question on whether or not human miners are really capable of supplying the market for minerals. and yeah I know we'll eventually reach a new equilibrium but that equilibrium is likely to at a much smaller volume than currently
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.
Really, do you think there aren't enough minerals? Ofc there are, you just need to increase their prices. The market will balance itself, just that we may see some inflation meanwhile. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
3
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Posted - 2012.04.05 14:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote: Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).
Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation.
Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks.
So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet.
* Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.
@Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. Recession: A period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced Sounds spot on to me
Damn it, someone already beat me to it. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. @Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up.
LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation.
And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. @Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up. LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation. And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA.
Thank you for the correction.
Also, where did I say that people will stop producing? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
143
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Point to where the "downturn in economic activity" is going to occur.
Trying to apply complex real world economic terms to eve phenomenon often leads to oversimplifications like this. Eve does have an economy, but there are fundamental differences that require you to think a little deeper before you make one to one comparisons with the real world.
I will without hesitation agree that there will be a downturn in "GDP", but a "recession" implies far more than that, far more which will likely not occur. Furthermore, given the negative connotations of the term "recession" and the negative connotations of the original argument in this thread, the misuse of the term "recession" is significant. Much of the undesirable aspects of a real recession will not be occurring, while much if not all of the actual impact of a lower overall galactic output will be offset by the fact that it will be being produced by actual players having fun and not bots (how exactly you value the increased playability of mining against an overall decline in the supply of goods being a personal evaluation, not a collective one).
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gfldex
448
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Posted - 2012.04.05 15:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
As of today the sky is officially falling. There is no Drake in Jita on sell orders below 50M ISK.
Luckily it's all just speculation, right? :-> And in 2012 the whining became ENDLESS. |
Zircon Dasher
127
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
3
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up. Target-rich environment, my friend. Target-rich environment.
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baltec1
1030
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up.
If he cant then BATs will do our best to kill as many macro miners as possible. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
93
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests. Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has.
I'm sorry, but I have to flag you.
I own all rights to any references to Bee's on this forum, so desist bombing my Bee's in your sentences.
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
75
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
Black Dranzer wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Woah, woah. They're actually doing this? I heard about it a while back, but it never actually got implemented. Is it actually coming with inferno? If so, that's AWESOME.
It is kinda silly. Once my corp was doing a mining OP. I hate mining so missioned instead and salvaged all my missions/reprocessed the loot. I gave the minerals to the corp.
I 'mined' more isk in minerals than the the typical miner did from that op. |
Selinate
792
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
522
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
These changes will be good for the game... and we could definitely stand for a shake-up of the game.
Instead of going on a long rant about the economy, I'll just say this: RL comparisons don't hold up. Unemployment in EvE is 0%, nobody is retired & there are no pensions to pay, healthcare is cheap (as cheap as your clone), and you can't invest in options contracts. ...oh. and murder is legal.
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SilverTrav
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
3
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Selinate wrote:I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny.
You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at. I don't care if I fall, so long as someone picks up my guns and keeps shooting. |
Bischopt
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
85
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.
Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
97
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.
Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken.
Mission running is injecting WAY more ISK into the economy than incursions are... i know cause the fancy graphs say so. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
4
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Posted - 2012.04.05 16:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
SilverTrav wrote:Selinate wrote:I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny. You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at. You know that each post has a counter on it, indicating teh number of 'likes' it directly recieves, right?
+28 as of this post.
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mickydees
League of Gentlemen
1
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:bldyannoyed wrote: Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).
Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation. Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks. So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet. * Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead.
wow you must be a poor nobody.
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
5
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
mickydees wrote:
wow you must be a poor nobody.
Poor? Not hardly. Not vastly wealthy in-game, but more than enough ISK to indulge in playing any way that occurs to me. Mining keeps the main's wallet topped-up and well-supplied with munitions.
Nobody? If you say so. I'm certainly not playing to impress you. Frankly, whether or not anyone is impressed with me immaterial. I'm here to entertain my self. All else is a bonus. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
229
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
Don't think bounties need touching. Just remove *all* drops from belt rats.
Only place stuff drops:
- Missions - Complexes - Anoms - PVP
This *is* a pvp game after all.
Belt rats should just be for standing grinds and to pwn solo miners (doing it wrong).
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5927
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Enkryption
Intergalactic Pool Boys
8
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Don't think bounties need touching. Just remove *all* drops from belt rats.
Only place stuff drops:
- Missions - Complexes - Anoms - PVP
This *is* a pvp game after all.
Belt rats should just be for standing grinds and to pwn solo miners (doing it wrong).
There is pvp in this sandbox, yes, but that's not everything the game is. A huge part is industry. I don't think the no meta 0 drop change is going to effect too much tbh, it might raise mineral prices but I doubt it will be THAT noticable. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
6
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Posted - 2012.04.05 17:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either. |
Zircon Dasher
129
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either.
Rich and Poor are relative terms and I think you severely underestimate what it takes to be "rich" in this game. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Amity Lane has big cheeks. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5927
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:02:00 -
[88] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. You mean reading, quite correctly, how you negated a negation.
GÇ£Poor? HardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Not reallyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? No.GÇ¥
GǪexcept that you wrote:
GÇ£Poor? Not hardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Fully.GÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Yes.GÇ¥
Double negatives are bad for you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
67
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either. Wasn't a failure at reading, it was a literal reading of your post. "Poor? Not hardly." should actually read "Poor? Hardly."
/grammar lesson
E: Damn, ninja'd. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
D3F4ULT
15
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Posted - 2012.04.05 18:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
This OP goes to prove they know nothing about economics, they don't know a single fact about the current economic status and what inflation is. The OP also doesn't know that only about 8-10% of the population really interacts mostly with Marketing/Trading.
Prices go up causes isk to flow, no clogs, More isk sinks means less inflation coming into the game (more stable economy), and with PLEX as 25% of the market, uh... yeah.. need some moderation there and a little bit of control if it gets stupid.
CCP has some economists in their hands that are handling it with careful consideration, they aren't just poking at it with a stick. With 10 years under their belt you're nothing more than a Doomsday Sayer so go crawl back under the rock you came from.
o7 good day. Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
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