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Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
454
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
50
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Confirming that the next several months are going to be awesome. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
urbino
Tetraktys Rolling Thunder.
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little.
this |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2043
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little.
Not to mention, that these changes are good for industry professions and have been requested for a long time. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3654
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Miners would be golden gooses for a while?
|
Muestereate
Two Geezers in Space
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Time waits for no man |
Amity Lane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are.
Vince Snetterton wrote:If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. Tell that to Franklin Roosevelt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
Seemed to work out OK. vOv |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
115
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
man... they dont change anything for what, 3 years? MASSIVE QQ
they start changing thigns, MORE qq Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Alara IonStorm
1925
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil.
Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE.
I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it. |
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Black Dranzer
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops.
Woah, woah. They're actually doing this?
I heard about it a while back, but it never actually got implemented. Is it actually coming with inferno?
If so, that's AWESOME. |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
50
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
And who says mineral prices are going to go down, which is what your T1 ship costs are based on? Most of these changes are geared to reducing easy mineral supply, and putting far more of the Eve's mineral supply dependent on human miners. Seems reasonable and fair enough, but what if not enough humans are willing to deal with the drudgery of mining plus deal with the ever increasing risk of gank attacks, let alone what the new ward dec system will do to mining corps.
And please don't say that mining corps can just hire merc corps to fight their battles. Of course they can, but the cost of those merc corps is an added expense in the production of the minerals and will be passed down to the customer.
So don't expect your shiny ships to drop in price by say July. And if they are just remember your comment tonight. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
504
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
That depends on your perspective. Once upon a time in Eve you went out and tried to mine all your minerals your self for you first, cruiser, then your first battle ship. Many of the first cap ships were mined by the owners. Despite the greater risk then, compared to now, the population distribution across security sectors is very close to what it has always been.
Perhaps increasing mineral prices by reducing the supply is an attempt to fix, and perhaps your perception needs adjustment as well. |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
146
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little.
It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests.
Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc Order of the Void
249
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
If they are getting rid of meta 0 items from loot drops, that would be amazing. Stop letting mission runners bypass two professions at once (miners, manufacterers).
|
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
146
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. Vince Snetterton wrote:If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. Tell that to Franklin Roosevelt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
...and people are still sending that guy hate mail....even though he's dead. |
Alara IonStorm
1926
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote: And who says mineral prices are going to go down, which is what your T1 ship costs are based on? Most of these changes are geared to reducing easy mineral supply, and putting far more of the Eve's mineral supply dependent on human miners. Seems reasonable and fair enough, but what if not enough humans are willing to deal with the drudgery of mining plus deal with the ever increasing risk of gank attacks, let alone what the new ward dec system will do to mining corps.
And please don't say that mining corps can just hire merc corps to fight their battles. Of course they can, but the cost of those merc corps is an added expense in the production of the minerals and will be passed down to the customer.
So don't expect your shiny ships to drop in price by say July. And if they are just remember your comment tonight.
While a valid perspective you also have to consider the Bounty and Incursions nerf. That and the fact that Mining will become much more profitable which will help pay for ganking loses.
The number one complaint about Mining isn't a gank but that you can make so much more doing other stuff.
Adunh Slavy wrote: That depends on your perspective. Once upon a time in Eve you went out and tried to mine all your minerals your self for you first, cruiser, then your first battle ship. Many of the first cap ships were mined by the owners. Despite the greater risk then, compared to now, the population distribution across security sectors is very close to what it has always been.
Perhaps increasing mineral prices by reducing the supply is an attempt to fix, and perhaps your perception needs adjustment as well.
Different world. Now Tier 2 Battlecruisers are the norm and add on's like Rigs and a lack of T1 Balance around T2 Fitting stats have made ships like T1 Cruisers less then viable for engagements. With all the new ships the bar is being set higher and higher with what you have to use to compete.
Back then a T1 Battleship was like a Capital today and Frigates / Cruisers were the norm. Now the field has expanded. The rebalance may help lower the cost of entry level PvP making ISK Costs go down for T1 Ships which might alleviate the problem.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
457
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests. Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has. Real men cover themselves in honey first.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
115
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests. Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has.
Black Powder scattergun. Thats how my uncle does it Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
506
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 05:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Different world. Now Tier 2 Battlecruisers are the norm and add on's like Rigs and a lack of T1 Balance around T2 Fitting stats have made ships like T1 Cruisers less then viable for engagements. With all the new ships the bar is being set higher and higher with what you have to use to compete.
Back then a T1 Battleship was like a Capital today and Frigates / Cruisers were the norm. Now the field has expanded. The rebalance may help lower the cost of entry level PvP making ISK Costs go down for T1 Ships which might alleviate the problem.
True enough, but I'll tell ya something. Fun in Eve is not defined by the nifty ship, it is defined by what you do with it. It is more fun to get your corp mates and try to do a lvl 4 in T1 cruisers than all of you in pimped out faction sparkle boats.
One of the most fun experience I had in Eve was in Null sec. I fit up a crappy blackbird with whatever crap I could find on the market, all T1 stuff. I joined the fleet and some guy laughed, "hu hu hu, you won't jam anything with that!". Well a few minutes later, off we ran to help some blues save a carrier that was under attack by some reds. In we zip to the carrier and I locked the reds, each one of them, zap. I jammed them all in a cheap little crappy ship. The fleet asked, "Why didn't they shoot? What happened." I told them, "I used my crappy little blackbird." They didn't laugh at my crappy blackbird after that or my crazy caracal stuffed full of tracking disrupters.
You do not need the big fancy pants ship to have fun. In fact, flying what you can afford to loose and not giving a damn is where the fun is. |
|
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 06:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Blob, blob, blob, blob, blob, blob, blob and blob some more.
If you look at all the changes, they really hate solo content this year. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
70
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 06:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adapt or die.
No offense Wis. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Samillian
Moonshine Industries The Last Chancers.
110
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 08:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Your worried, we got the that. Its sweet of you but all in all change is a good thing that opens up new opportunities.
I say this as a small to medium industrialist on a different toon. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
577
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 08:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. Vince Snetterton wrote:If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. Tell that to Franklin Roosevelt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_DealSeemed to work out OK. vOv
/win - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 08:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one. They do have an economist on staff but I suppose that doesn't mean he didn't just say "Just let them HTFU and deal with it" Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
baltec1
1030
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 08:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Started training my mining skills again, knew they would come in handy at some point |
Vain Eldritch
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. It's about bloody time, tbh. Androgynous Caldari Cross-dresser |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3276
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
Economic Chaos is good in a game. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
504
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Who would have thought that the (grand name) Military Inferno Patch would be the best industry patch ever. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5922
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 09:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:But at what cost? None. Well, I suppose we'll have to give away a whole lot of boredom, same-old-same-old, tradition, doing-what-we-did-yesterday, and similar coinage, but that's not really a cost, now is it?
This kind of shake-up can only ever have positive consequences in a system that has grown as static as EVE has. Now shush and prepare to make humongous piles of cash!
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Who would have thought that the (grand name) Military Inferno Patch would be the best industry patch ever. War is always good for industry (especially in a system where the broken-window fallacy isn't a fallacy). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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Savage Creampuff
Ion Corp. Citex Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
505
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Savage Creampuff wrote:out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good
and profitable. I pillaged some Jita markets for some easy profits later. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
InstinctE17
Avant-Garde Monastery G00DFELLAS
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
you really have no idea what your talking about do you? |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
152
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Actually what they're doing is very simple. They're decreasing mineral supply, that's basically it. The incursion nerf will be balanced out with new isk income from the revamped drone regions.
Prices will rise, more people will take up mining because it's more profitable, and a new equilibrium will be reached.
Implementing something like PI and redoing the NPC goods is a much bigger undertaking than what's happening in Inferno. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3277
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Savage Creampuff wrote:out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
409
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP is on definitely the roll <3
|
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
urbino wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. this
this |
Space Wanderer
Ruatha Holding
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:I fit up a crappy blackbird .
Another blackbird.... Are they now free with cereals or something?
Sorry, couldn't resist. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
534
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 10:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
People are always fitting crappy ships with crummy mods and soloing level IVs for fun. Ever notice that? FACT!
The economy was adjusted after a visit from a phd in economics less than a year ago. FACT!
IRL if companies are in cahoots fixing prices they go to jail. FACT! (almost)
As long as there is no control over the amount of currency in circulation inflation will be with us forever. FACT!
My kitchen needs painting. FACT!
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
96
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
IT WILL BE A GOOD YEAR FOR INTERNET SPACESHIPS MARK MY WORDS! |
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bldyannoyed
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is all well and good but there is one small-ish problem.
MINING IS A ******* AWFUL GAME MECHANIC.
Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).
So basically with ALL cash bounties nerfed, inflation inevitably going insane and ALL secondary sources of minerals removed (basically a double nerf for anything that's not sleepers/incursions) the only way to get ahead is going to be null sec mining or playing markets.
Now don't get me wrong here. I'm all for mining/industry getting a boost and further I'm also firmly of the opinion that any impacts the market feels as a result of CCP actions against RMT'ers/botters is a good thing as it represents the market regaining equilibrium that has been artficially screwed up by cheating *** holes.
But I will never mine. And I'm not the only one. If there was any way to conduct an accurate survey on these forums I would be absolutely fascinated to see the numbers for people who would quit when/if faced with a game where industry was the ONLY viable form of PvE activity.
|
Surge Roth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
If people can't afford the ships now, they won't be able to afford it later after money making nerfs. This change will change absolutely nothing. All they're really doing is shifting isk around to different activities and out right nerfing things. The only reason why prices are so high now is because demand is obviously higher than supply and all the people buying up minerals in anticipation of drone poop not dropping anymore.
Yes, if they go through with the nerf, prices of things may go down because there will be less demand, but the gap that is there now will be there then because people will be making less money. Also, initially, it's going to be a lot worse than it is now and the market won't follow the trend immediately. Hell, if all the rumors about moon mining and high sec crap is true about some of the alliances I hear, the prices won't drop much at all. Also, it will make anyone without a ship program avoid PVP even more, initially of course, because the gap will be even bigger at the start of all this.
Personally, I don't care. I'm good at making isk and I still will be after the nerfs. But saying the economy is broken is a load of bull crap and all this nerf will do is give the illusion that something was fixed when there was nothing broken in the first place. |
Lt Angus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
cant wait, the econemy should not be something you can set your watch by, should go nuts everynow and then |
malaire
332
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 11:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
This is good time to be a trader.
I'm not active in any of the "interesting" areas which are getting changed, but I've got a lot of cheap items dumped to my jita buy orders, probably from people wanting quick ISK to invest in greener pastures.
New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1459
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
There is no real need for low prices. Prices were much worse many years ago. When prices go up more, people will start appreciating smaller/cheaper ships again. Low prices hurt the game more than high do, because of decadence and the loss of emotional value.
People need to stop being decadent and spoiled ... and if such people leave ... it's even better for everybody ! People who cry about high prices either have to learn to put :effort: into something, or hey ... have fun somewhere else ! :D
And with Inferno, prices will go up even more ! :D
It's perfect !
TL;DR:
Higher prices means we will have more variety in space, cowards and spoiled brats will remove themselves over time, people will start appreciating again what they have worked for !
Perfect ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
412
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:When prices go up more, people will start appreciating smaller/cheaper ships again. Low prices hurt the game more than high do, because of decadence and the loss of emotional value. Oh well, the ol' Drake backbone is creaking a little. Still not as bad as the tengu backbone some people rely on.
Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE.
The economy will recover on its own. If mineral prices skyrocket all that will mean is that players who do combat pvp or mission running will flock to the mining profession in their veldspar-mining cruisers and battleships to help the career miners meet the demand for minerals. Once prices settle, the pvp/pve players will continue on their merry way.
This is not an assumption or made up fact. This is based on Adam Smith's principles on modern economics in which he came up with the idea of the "Invisible Hand" theory stating that the self interests of buyers and sellers in a free market economy will stabilize the economy over time. Think of it as an economic form of "homeostasis" in which things always balances out eventually.
Besides, it's not like anyone is stuck doing one profession just because they trained their characters for it. I am strictly a mining person and I occassionally dip into manufacturing, pvp, pve, and even null-sec roaming. Eve Online allows players to be that flexible after all. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
bldyannoyed
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:
There is no real need for low prices. Prices were much worse many years ago. When prices go up more, people will start appreciating smaller/cheaper ships again. Low prices hurt the game more than high do, because of decadence and the loss of emotional value.
TL;DR:
Higher prices means we will have more variety in space, cowards and spoiled brats will remove themselves over time, people will start appreciating again what they have worked for !
Perfect !
Thats utter crap btw.
For a start prices right now are just about as high as I can remember them being. I'll admit that my memory of market prices at the end end of 2004 is a little bit hazy as I didn't really have much of a clue what was going on but I do remember that my first Tempest (I was so proud) which I got some time during 2005 cost about the 125mill mark.
Atm the cheapest to be had in empire is 115mill and apparently the median selling price 124mill. Thats, ooooh I dunno, 7 years of almost constant deflation reversed in the space of a few months. And its still accelerating.
As far as appreciating smaller/cheaper ships again thats only going to happen if they're actually any good. Right now the majority don't fly cruisers and frigs because they're rubbish, not because they're so massively wealthy that they can afford to burn isk all the time. Ship diversity is going to rely exclusively on CCP getting the tiericide ship rebalancing right because otherwise pvp will simply be everyone flying around in the defacto OP cruiser or frig rather than the defato OP BC. Yeah, thats really good for diversity.
As far as low prices hurting more than high prices that basically comes down to your wallet. It's very easy to take the holistic view of it when you're sitting on billions of isk, its slightly different when you're still trying to make your way in the game and the economy has gone supernova around you.
"Too High" is just as bad if not worse than "Too Low". While too low does indeed take some of the meaning out of the game how much meaning is there when the huge variety of ships in Eve boils down to whatever cruiser is cheapest?
|
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
77
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hopefully with the RMT purge, prices will begin to fall On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
Hell no. The markets shake like shoot dead every change. If they are going to again, better once than 5 diferent times. |
|
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
422
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
i cant be a minmatar honor warrior if i cant afford honor ships. I have more space likes than you.-á |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:
As far as appreciating smaller/cheaper ships again thats only going to happen if they're actually any good. Right now the majority don't fly cruisers and frigs because they're rubbish, not because they're so massively wealthy that they can afford to burn isk all the time. Ship diversity is going to rely exclusively on CCP getting the tiericide ship rebalancing right because otherwise pvp will simply be everyone flying around in the defacto OP cruiser or frig rather than the defato OP BC. Yeah, thats really good for diversity.
Not true at all. Everywhere I go throughout all four empires and various regions I run into players who fly mostly frigs, dessies and cruisers. I travel a lot and I am in the process of cleaning up the hoarding I made throughout high-sec in 20-30 systems. That means I have traveled through hundreds of star systems in between those 20-30 systems where my random junk are stashed and I always run into frigs, dessies and cruisers.
Also, I have seen these things in action and they are not rubbish. If used right, a pack of frigates or dessies can kill a well-fitted battlecruiser or battleship. The Rifter, Atron, Catalyst, Thrasher, Coercer, Vexor, Stabber, and Blackbird are also extremely versatile for their class. Why also do you think Frigates and Cruisers are always primaried in battle? It's not because they're weak, which they are, but because they are extremely annoying if not dealt with early on. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5926
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Why also do you think Frigates and Cruisers are always primaried in battle? It's not because they're weak, which they are, but because they are extremely annoying if not dealt with early on. It's both: they're low-hanging fruit. They can be annoying, but they are also very easy to get rid of, so the opportunity cost for shooting them is nil.
They're no more annoying than their advanced versions, but they're a free reduction in the enemy's numbers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote: You do not need the big fancy pants ship to have fun. In fact, flying what you can afford to loose and not giving a damn is where the fun is.
Amen.
|
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
Calm down. Relax.
Take a deeeeep breath.
It's really all going to be OK.
It's a GAME. Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
143
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Every single change will apparently lead to masses of players unsubbing in protest. |
Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
149
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:Hopefully with the RMT purge, prices will begin to fall
LOL you really think this
While yes there were plenty of bots grinding isk from bounties far far more were mining.
The removal of BOTs is going to put a serious damper on the supply of minerals. how much? I don't know but I having tried my hand at mining I suspect that the vast majority of minerals that are mined are done so by bots so I expect to see a massive reduction in the supply of minerals which is going to equate a massive increase in price.
It's going to be a very interesting experiment. I'm still trying to decide where all this is going to end up.
It's all going to depend on how much they tinker with the ISK supply. I fully expect prices on everything to rise as the supply of raw materials is decimated. however if they reduce the influx of isk sufficiently we won't see much change in prices
What will happen regardless is a reduction in real economic activity. Reduced supply or minerals will naturally result in a decreased supply of finished goods.
I think it's an open question on whether or not human miners are really capable of supplying the market for minerals. and yeah I know we'll eventually reach a new equilibrium but that equilibrium is likely to at a much smaller volume than currently
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
143
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:[quote=Lyron-Baktos]Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.
Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.
|
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
78
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:Lyron-Baktos wrote:Hopefully with the RMT purge, prices will begin to fall LOL you really think this While yes there were plenty of bots grinding isk from bounties far far more were mining. The removal of BOTs is going to put a serious damper on the supply of minerals. how much? I don't know but I having tried my hand at mining I suspect that the vast majority of minerals that are mined are done so by bots so I expect to see a massive reduction in the supply of minerals which is going to equate a massive increase in price. It's going to be a very interesting experiment. I'm still trying to decide where all this is going to end up. It's all going to depend on how much they tinker with the ISK supply. I fully expect prices on everything to rise as the supply of raw materials is decimated. however if they reduce the influx of isk sufficiently we won't see much change in prices What will happen regardless is a reduction in real economic activity. Reduced supply or minerals will naturally result in a decreased supply of finished goods. I think it's an open question on whether or not human miners are really capable of supplying the market for minerals. and yeah I know we'll eventually reach a new equilibrium but that equilibrium is likely to at a much smaller volume than currently Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.
I said RMT, not botting. Purging the bots will make minerals more expensive and raise prices. Purging the RMT will remove ISK from the market. With less isk in the market, demand will slow down as people can't afford to buy the expensive ships. That will cause the market to be over saturated with expensive items and hopefully, drive down prices.
But there are just too many variables all being affected at the same time to really tell what will happen. A lot of the serious botting operations were being used to fund RMT. Then with all the other nerfs and changes, who the hell knows
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
bldyannoyed
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.
Recession: A period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced
Sounds spot on to me |
|
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:wever if they reduce the influx of isk sufficiently we won't see much change in prices
What will happen regardless is a reduction in real economic activity. Reduced supply or minerals will naturally result in a decreased supply of finished goods.
I think it's an open question on whether or not human miners are really capable of supplying the market for minerals. and yeah I know we'll eventually reach a new equilibrium but that equilibrium is likely to at a much smaller volume than currently
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.
Really, do you think there aren't enough minerals? Ofc there are, you just need to increase their prices. The market will balance itself, just that we may see some inflation meanwhile. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote: Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).
Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation.
Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks.
So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet.
* Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:00:00 -
[63] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.
@Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. Recession: A period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced Sounds spot on to me
Damn it, someone already beat me to it. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. @Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up.
LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation.
And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA. |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
289
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:Henry Haphorn wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE. Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is. @Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up. LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation. And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA.
Thank you for the correction.
Also, where did I say that people will stop producing? Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
143
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Point to where the "downturn in economic activity" is going to occur.
Trying to apply complex real world economic terms to eve phenomenon often leads to oversimplifications like this. Eve does have an economy, but there are fundamental differences that require you to think a little deeper before you make one to one comparisons with the real world.
I will without hesitation agree that there will be a downturn in "GDP", but a "recession" implies far more than that, far more which will likely not occur. Furthermore, given the negative connotations of the term "recession" and the negative connotations of the original argument in this thread, the misuse of the term "recession" is significant. Much of the undesirable aspects of a real recession will not be occurring, while much if not all of the actual impact of a lower overall galactic output will be offset by the fact that it will be being produced by actual players having fun and not bots (how exactly you value the increased playability of mining against an overall decline in the supply of goods being a personal evaluation, not a collective one).
|
gfldex
448
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 15:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
As of today the sky is officially falling. There is no Drake in Jita on sell orders below 50M ISK.
Luckily it's all just speculation, right? :-> And in 2012 the whining became ENDLESS. |
Zircon Dasher
127
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up. Target-rich environment, my friend. Target-rich environment.
|
|
baltec1
1030
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Mineral prices going up....... check Scalability of mining unchanged........check Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check
I hope Sreegs can keep up.
If he cant then BATs will do our best to kill as many macro miners as possible. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
93
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Marduk Nibiru wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little. It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests. Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has.
I'm sorry, but I have to flag you.
I own all rights to any references to Bee's on this forum, so desist bombing my Bee's in your sentences.
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:32:00 -
[73] - Quote
Black Dranzer wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Woah, woah. They're actually doing this? I heard about it a while back, but it never actually got implemented. Is it actually coming with inferno? If so, that's AWESOME.
It is kinda silly. Once my corp was doing a mining OP. I hate mining so missioned instead and salvaged all my missions/reprocessed the loot. I gave the minerals to the corp.
I 'mined' more isk in minerals than the the typical miner did from that op. |
Selinate
792
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
522
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
These changes will be good for the game... and we could definitely stand for a shake-up of the game.
Instead of going on a long rant about the economy, I'll just say this: RL comparisons don't hold up. Unemployment in EvE is 0%, nobody is retired & there are no pensions to pay, healthcare is cheap (as cheap as your clone), and you can't invest in options contracts. ...oh. and murder is legal.
|
SilverTrav
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Selinate wrote:I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny.
You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at. I don't care if I fall, so long as someone picks up my guns and keeps shooting. |
Bischopt
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
85
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:45:00 -
[77] - Quote
I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.
Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
97
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.
Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken.
Mission running is injecting WAY more ISK into the economy than incursions are... i know cause the fancy graphs say so. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 16:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
SilverTrav wrote:Selinate wrote:I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.
Funny. You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at. You know that each post has a counter on it, indicating teh number of 'likes' it directly recieves, right?
+28 as of this post.
|
mickydees
League of Gentlemen
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:bldyannoyed wrote: Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).
Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation. Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks. So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet. * Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead.
wow you must be a poor nobody.
|
|
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
mickydees wrote:
wow you must be a poor nobody.
Poor? Not hardly. Not vastly wealthy in-game, but more than enough ISK to indulge in playing any way that occurs to me. Mining keeps the main's wallet topped-up and well-supplied with munitions.
Nobody? If you say so. I'm certainly not playing to impress you. Frankly, whether or not anyone is impressed with me immaterial. I'm here to entertain my self. All else is a bonus. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
Don't think bounties need touching. Just remove *all* drops from belt rats.
Only place stuff drops:
- Missions - Complexes - Anoms - PVP
This *is* a pvp game after all.
Belt rats should just be for standing grinds and to pwn solo miners (doing it wrong).
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5927
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Enkryption
Intergalactic Pool Boys
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Don't think bounties need touching. Just remove *all* drops from belt rats.
Only place stuff drops:
- Missions - Complexes - Anoms - PVP
This *is* a pvp game after all.
Belt rats should just be for standing grinds and to pwn solo miners (doing it wrong).
There is pvp in this sandbox, yes, but that's not everything the game is. A huge part is industry. I don't think the no meta 0 drop change is going to effect too much tbh, it might raise mineral prices but I doubt it will be THAT noticable. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 17:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either. |
Zircon Dasher
129
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either.
Rich and Poor are relative terms and I think you severely underestimate what it takes to be "rich" in this game. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Amity Lane has big cheeks. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5927
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:02:00 -
[88] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. You mean reading, quite correctly, how you negated a negation.
GÇ£Poor? HardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Not reallyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? No.GÇ¥
GǪexcept that you wrote:
GÇ£Poor? Not hardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Fully.GÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Yes.GÇ¥
Double negatives are bad for you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
67
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either. Wasn't a failure at reading, it was a literal reading of your post. "Poor? Not hardly." should actually read "Poor? Hardly."
/grammar lesson
E: Damn, ninja'd. "Fun fact: carebears are not necessary for the game to function." --áTippia |
D3F4ULT
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
This OP goes to prove they know nothing about economics, they don't know a single fact about the current economic status and what inflation is. The OP also doesn't know that only about 8-10% of the population really interacts mostly with Marketing/Trading.
Prices go up causes isk to flow, no clogs, More isk sinks means less inflation coming into the game (more stable economy), and with PLEX as 25% of the market, uh... yeah.. need some moderation there and a little bit of control if it gets stupid.
CCP has some economists in their hands that are handling it with careful consideration, they aren't just poking at it with a stick. With 10 years under their belt you're nothing more than a Doomsday Sayer so go crawl back under the rock you came from.
o7 good day. Creator of CCP ZULU - Incarna : Pants Online ( http://youtu.be/AObrlCf3Dcs ) |
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
523
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:04:00 -
[91] - Quote
bldyannoyed wrote:This is all well and good but there is one small-ish problem.
MINING IS A ******* AWFUL GAME MECHANIC.
Yeah, mining needs a change, something interactive that won't scare CCP's network admins, and can't be hacked client side. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:06:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. You mean reading, quite correctly, how you negated a negation. GÇ£Poor? HardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Not reallyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? No.GÇ¥ GǪexcept that you wrote: GÇ£Poor? Not hardlyGÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Fully.GÇ¥ GåÆ GÇ£Poor? Yes.GÇ¥ Double negatives are bad for you. Damn. You are, embarasingly, quite right.
I stand corrected. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:silens vesica wrote:Tippia wrote:silens vesica wrote:Poor? Not hardly. So actually really. Heh. I like how you failed at reading there. I could buy 20 bc hulls with my current wallet, and fit them all. That's not vast wealth, but it's not poverty, either. Rich and Poor are relative terms and I think you severely underestimate what it takes to be "rich" in this game. You are, of course, quite right that 'wealth' is a relative and subjective term. I define 'wealth' as "having the resources to be able to do whatever occurs to me, immediately."
By that standard, I qualify quite handily. Ultimately, it's my own play the concerns me, so that's all that matters.
|
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:11:00 -
[94] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. Vince Snetterton wrote:If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. Tell that to Franklin Roosevelt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_DealSeemed to work out OK. vOv
Yeah and America's economy is the envy of the world. |
Zircon Dasher
129
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:19:00 -
[95] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:bldyannoyed wrote:This is all well and good but there is one small-ish problem.
MINING IS A ******* AWFUL GAME MECHANIC.
Yeah, mining needs a change, something interactive that won't scare CCP's network admins, and can't be hacked client side.
And hopefully something that encourages multiple players banding together, not just 1 player running 6-12 accounts. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
83
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:22:00 -
[96] - Quote
This is a joke, right? The New Deal was an economic disaster. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Scarlett LaBlanc
PlusEight
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
When I first arrived in EVE my first job was industry. I looked up frigate and dystroyer fits on battle clinic to see what the popular modules wereand then trolled the markets to see what had good profit margins.
I spent day looking at the markets in two regions confused at how nearly all those modules could possibly be selling at or below cost. It was about that time I joined my first corp. a corp mate clued me in about all those meta 0 loot drops.
I was originally drawn to EvE by the thought that (most) everything was player made. Always blew my mind that perhaps the biggest exception were the things a new player would use, and that a new industrialist could afford to make.
To the change in loot drops +1
As to the the changing mineral prices, I don't see the issue. While some people won't mine because they simply don't like it, many more don't because anything other activity earns more ISK. If mineral prices rise, more of those people will start to mine as it becomes more profitable. More people mining increases supply and suppress prices. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
524
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote: And hopefully something that encourages multiple players banding together, not just 1 player running 6-12 accounts.
Agreed, it scales too well for one human. It's just too easy to sit there and watch TV. This is also a good thing in some respects, but it should come at a cost compared to being more active.
I've long advocated for two mining modes, the lazy I wanna watch TV mode, that reduces current yields by up to 80% in high sec, and a active mode that would give up to 20% more yield than passive in high sec. There would be no penalty for passive mode in low sec and null, where you need to be keeping an eye on things. Active mode in those areas would be 30% and 50% above current.
What the active mode would be, it's hard to say what is best, there have been ideas on these forums for years. Trusting the client is the difficult part. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:37:00 -
[99] - Quote
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:When I first arrived in EVE my first job was industry. I looked up frigate and dystroyer fits on battle clinic to see what the popular modules wereand then trolled the markets to see what had good profit margins.
I spent day looking at the markets in two regions confused at how nearly all those modules could possibly be selling at or below cost. It was about that time I joined my first corp. a corp mate clued me in about all those meta 0 loot drops.
I was originally drawn to EvE by the thought that (most) everything was player made. Always blew my mind that perhaps the biggest exception were the things a new player would use, and that a new industrialist could afford to make.
To the change in loot drops +1
As to the the changing mineral prices, I don't see the issue. While some people won't mine because they simply don't like it, many more don't because anything other activity earns more ISK. If mineral prices rise, more of those people will start to mine as it becomes more profitable. More people mining increases supply and suppress prices.
I wonder if anyone realizes that removing meta 0 loot drops and drone poo at the same time will end up being a zero sum game...? |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote: And hopefully something that encourages multiple players banding together, not just 1 player running 6-12 accounts.
Agreed, it scales too well for one human. It's just too easy to sit there and watch TV. This is also a good thing in some respects, but it should come at a cost compared to being more active. I've long advocated for two mining modes, the lazy I wanna watch TV mode, that reduces current yields by up to 80% in high sec, and a active mode that would give up to 20% more yield than current in high sec. There would be no penalty for passive mode in low sec and null, where you need to be keeping an eye on things. Active mode in those areas would be 30% and 50% above current. What the active mode would be, it's hard to say what is best, there have been ideas on these forums for years. Trusting the client is the difficult part.
You've obviously never mined in null-sec. It's actually a cakewalk.
Also you're adding artificial controls and penalties to punish players for not mining the way you want them to.
It really bothers you that miners get to take a leak while their lazers continue to pull in ore, doesn't it? |
|
Obvious Cyno Alt
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 18:59:00 -
[101] - Quote
I see all these changes with a warm feeling in my pants as I'm a dedicated miner in nullsec, so mineral prices going up means more iskies in my pocket, at least until the players do settle into a new balance. Hopefully this balance will take months! (probably not though)
I'd love to have the patience to play the market properly, but it's just too much brain drain.
And to this guy...
silens vesica wrote:You are, of course, quite right that 'wealth' is a relative and subjective term. I define 'wealth' as "having the resources to be able to do whatever occurs to me, immediately."
By that standard, I qualify quite handily. Ultimately, it's my own play the concerns me, so that's all that matters.
Mate, while your perspective is quite correct, when compared to the wealth of other players, you me and almost everyone are indeed poor. You said something about being able to buy 20 BCs with fittings. Well I could raise you 20 BS fully fit while paying my accounts with Plex as I currently do (+/- 2bil/month)... and I'm poor by EVE standards! Granted that I have more than enough to play the game I feel like playing atm, but when compared to some players, all my assets/isk are a mere drop in a very large ocean.
Anyway, if you can buy 20 BCs, why in the hell didn't you go out and blow up 10 of them? :P (This was meant as a good spirited joke and not trying to tell you how to play your game :D) |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:This is a joke, right? The New Deal was an economic disaster.
holy crap someone paid attention Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:10:00 -
[103] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: While a valid perspective you also have to consider the Bounty and Incursions nerf.
There will not be a REAL bounty nerf because when you include Drone bounties the amount of ISK injected into the system from bounties will far exceed the 10% reduction IMHO. Unless I am missing something the bounty nerf was not annouced for April 24th and will (may) be later in the year. I expect in the month following Esclation bounties will jump from 26 trillion to 30-36 trillion if nothing unannounced is done.
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
s666ss666ss666
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:16:00 -
[104] - Quote
As a drone region resident who has not been selling lately, i approve of these changes. Oh boy is my stack of plush going to be worth a bundle afterwords |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:17:00 -
[105] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Started training my mining skills again, knew they would come in handy at some point
I'll start trainning my alts ganking skills I knew it'd become handy at some point An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Savage Creampuff wrote:out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good and profitable. I pillaged some Jita markets for some easy profits later.
The goons will be seigeing Jita waiting for you to come out or your hapless 'customers' trying to come in to buy anything An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:21:00 -
[107] - Quote
Roime wrote:CCP is on definitely the roll <3
rolling like lemmings off a cliff IMHO An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:22:00 -
[108] - Quote
Obvious Cyno Alt wrote:I see all these changes with a warm feeling in my pants as I'm a dedicated miner in nullsec, so mineral prices going up means more iskies in my pocket, at least until the players do settle into a new balance. Hopefully this balance will take months! (probably not though) I'd love to have the patience to play the market properly, but it's just too much brain drain. And to this guy... silens vesica wrote:You are, of course, quite right that 'wealth' is a relative and subjective term. I define 'wealth' as "having the resources to be able to do whatever occurs to me, immediately."
By that standard, I qualify quite handily. Ultimately, it's my own play the concerns me, so that's all that matters.
Mate, while your perspective is quite correct, when compared to the wealth of other players, you me and almost everyone are indeed poor. You said something about being able to buy 20 BCs with fittings. Well I could raise you 20 BS fully fit while paying my accounts with Plex as I currently do (+/- 2bil/month)... and I'm poor by EVE standards! Granted that I have more than enough to play the game I feel like playing atm, but when compared to some players, all my assets/isk are a mere drop in a very large ocean. Anyway, if you can buy 20 BCs, why in the hell didn't you go out and blow up 10 of them? :P (This was meant as a good spirited joke and not trying to tell you how to play your game :D) See, there's that issue of perspective again. I live by the perspective I stated - I don't really care what others can do, so long as I can do what *i* want. Which I can.
As I said - not vastly wealthy, but well enough off. What do I care if someone else has a bigger stack? Sure, I'd *like* to have what's in your stack, but it's not a pressing issue. If I had *half* my current stack, I'd be a bit worried, but even then I wouldn't need to beg or borrow, and could still buy anything I can fly, with spares left over.
There is no official "You win at EVE" metric - So I considser being able to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, while having a good time doing it, to be victory. IOW: I win. So what if some others have won 'bigger?' Conga-rats to them, and I hope they're having as much fun as I am.
As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up.
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
454
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE.
Look at it from a different perspective:
BPOs which you purchase from NPC's are still the same price. Therefore BPO costs are now less compared to the revenue to be had from manufacturing - you pay for your BPO faster by building and selling stuff. Mineral prices are going up, meaning there is more profit to be had mining your own minerals rather than buying them from someone else on the market because it still takes the same time invested in mining to come up with enough minerals for ship X. OR on the other hand, there is profit to be had mining and selling minerals on the market. Trit at 5/unit is nicer than trit at 3/unit. Again the time to mine 1 trit has not changed.
Any way you look at it it's all good.
Who it sucks for are the incursion/mission runners, for whom ship replacement has gotten more expensive and for whom bounties (on level 4's anyway) have been reduced. But how often do you lose a ship on a mission/incursion anyway? |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
455
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:28:00 -
[110] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts. |
|
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:34:00 -
[111] - Quote
lol, no
the changes that CCP is making are long overdue and I for one, welcome them
Get lost OP.
The likes on the second post speak thousands of words |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
524
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 19:42:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts. Great beard of Odin I can't believe I'm actually taking a pro goon position on this... but actually you are wrong. The text you are quoting would, in my view,pertain to things like spamming cans/ships, sending chat requests (spamming, like a DoS attack), or using network exploits. If you bring 5000 dudes into a system to destroy everyone therein, that's not an EULA violation, it's EvE kicking your a**. By your rational, any large fleet fight would qualify participants for bans. They aren't trying to break "The Game", they are trying to break "your game."
Also, I think you are giving the Goons too much credit. We're talking about Jita. Jita is the center of gravity for the game. It'll be a fun s***storm but I don't think there will be ANY kind of lasting effect from whatever they have planned. It's going to be a salvagers dream tho' (if anything even happens, whole thing could be a troll)
|
Obvious Cyno Alt
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 20:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up.
I thought that was implied, but after thinking about it, it was my bad on not including that bit. I did indeed mean go out and kill everything in sight until you get blown to hell! But whatever floats your boat is fine with me
Ptraci wrote:Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.
Not happening mate. If it really did happen like that, I would, eventually, stop playing this game as like Mittani said somewhere, the sandbox that lured me to play EVE will be dead. I have nothing invested in it, never use Jita, barely ever go to empire space but I'm just waiting for the tears on the forums, just for **** and giggles :D
I have a alt in Jita (as probably everyone else), and I will certainly be a spectator at some point. It's awesome emergent content and CCP should just use it to boost marketing for EVE, showing the best feature it has, the sandbox/emergent content in all it's glory, just as it was designed to be.
Other games need someone (multiple people) behind the curtains to think up what's going to happen next month/year. Here it's up to us! There's no way to not love the balls on goons for doing this, if they actually go through with it. Oh, and I'm not a goon nor have any sympathy towards them, but I do love EVE with all it's bells and whistles |
Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
290
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 20:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
I'll ready my Catalyst be the time Goons start firing. Goons, fire away. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 20:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
Obvious Cyno Alt wrote:silens vesica wrote:As for blowing up half of what I could buy - I could, but that's not as much fun as using them to blow other stuff up. I thought that was implied, but after thinking about it, it was my bad on not including that bit. I did indeed mean go out and kill everything in sight until you get blown to hell! But whatever floats your boat is fine with me See, here I was thinking you'd invited me to a potlatch, a wasting party, or to indulge in some other form of conspicuous consumption.
|
Patrick Estemaire
EVE University Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 20:55:00 -
[116] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.
So you'd prefer a more restrictive game than the current freedom we enjoy in the EVE sandbox? Did the goons steal your ice cream cone when you were little?
I may be wrong, but when it's all said and done I think most people will look back on the Jita rampage and say 'Yeah I was playing EVE when that happened. It kicked ass.' |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 21:02:00 -
[117] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one. If they are getting rid of meta 0 items from loot drops, that would be amazing. Stop letting mission runners bypass two professions at once (miners, manufacterers).
So the solution to ISK inflation is to reduce the product inputs of High Sec even more. That's not the way the real economy works. Jesus. I mean for people who ramble on and on about "player driven economy" they don't know the first thing about how an economy actually works. Yes, yes, let's FURTHER REDUCE the real product input of High Sec, that'll reduce inflation for sure!
But it does benefit Null Bears, so I suppose that makes it okay.
It will make, by itself, INFLATION WORSE. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 21:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
Oh, and replacing drone minerals with bounties will ALSO make inflation worse.
Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
The entire CSM should be fired. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3279
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 21:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.
If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?
Apart from, you know, wishful thinking. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 21:33:00 -
[120] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ptraci wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts. If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita? Apart from, you know, wishful thinking.
If the Null Bears continue demanding that "only they" deserve all access to raw inputs, and CCP continues wildly caving to them, a ban know as "server shutdown" will probably effect all Goons. |
|
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
146
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 21:42:00 -
[121] - Quote
lol another guy threatening to kill eve if ccp doesnt do what he wants
oh gd, so predictable |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
525
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:06:00 -
[122] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote: But it does benefit Null Bears, so I suppose that makes it okay.
It will make, by itself, INFLATION WORSE.
Good, Eve needs some price inflation. It's also good for high sec. Maybe you can find something else to do other than shoot rats. As prices go up, the value in shooting rats goes down. Instead, maybe build ammo, mine something, trade over priced ships to rat chasing people? There's an entire sandbox out there that does not involve shooting red + symbols. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Savage Creampuff wrote:out of the crucible and into the inferno. life is looking good and profitable. I pillaged some Jita markets for some easy profits later. The goons will be seigeing Jita waiting for you to come out or your hapless 'customers' trying to come in to buy anything Yeah but with all the warning who will actually be stupid enough to fall for it? Also, why the hell the warning?
Ptraci wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
The goons will be seigeing Jita
Can't wait for the goons to be banned for breaking the EULA (thou shalt not try to break the game/intentionally cause undue strain on the servers, etc), and frankly nothing of value will be lost. Spoiled children need consequences. EVE is not "their" game, there are only 8000 of them, and most of them are alts.
Yeah gl with that... how is PVP in a game that allows nonconsentual PVP breaking the game intentionally? Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Brutorthegreat
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
The economy is broken. I would rather they get it all done at once then drag out this painful situation. seriously. | -áFour Horsemen of the Apocalypse [THE4] | Dedicated Caldari Faction Warfare Corporation | Since December 2009 | -á-á |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
501
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:42:00 -
[125] - Quote
Brutorthegreat wrote:The economy is broken. I would rather they get it all done at once then drag out this painful situation. seriously. Plus, unlike real life the economy going **** up isn't necessarily bad.
In Eve, the economy going mad makes things interesting. In real life, the economy going **** up means I can't afford whiskey, her0in and hookers.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
457
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:55:00 -
[126] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Brutorthegreat wrote:The economy is broken. I would rather they get it all done at once then drag out this painful situation. seriously. Plus, unlike real life the economy going **** up isn't necessarily bad. In Eve, the economy going mad makes things interesting. In real life, the economy going **** up means I can't afford whiskey, her0in and hookers.
Not true herion prices have been going down because US soldiers destroyed the the Taliban ... in July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate ****** production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.[ The Bush administration paid a 43 million dollar 'eradication' reward payment to the Taliban in 2001.
An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 22:56:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right?
Funny, the high sec bears are having fun playing EVE too... why dont we just ignore each other then
rofl Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
504
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 23:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Not true herion prices have been going down because US soldiers destroyed the the Taliban ... in July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate ****** production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.[ The Bush administration paid a 43 million dollar 'eradication' reward payment to the Taliban in 2001. As someone who doesn't genuinely take her0in, or copy and paste random crap from wikipedia in an attempt to appear intelligent, I was completely unaware of this amazing information.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
220
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 23:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
Richard Aiel wrote:Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? Funny, the high sec bears are having fun playing EVE too... why dont we just ignore each other then rofl
Sandbox. We don't have to. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Amity Lane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
223
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:23:00 -
[131] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:This is a joke, right? The New Deal was an economic disaster. If be "economic disaster" you mean "turned America into the richest, most powerful nation on the planet", then sure.
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Yeah and America's economy is the envy of the world. It was in the late 40s/early 50s. vOv
Jacob Staffuer wrote:Amity Lane has big cheeks. It's really just the photo angle/lighting. At least that's what I tell myself when I look in the mirror so I don't cry. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
527
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:If be "economic disaster" you mean "turned America into the richest, most powerful nation on the planet", then sure.
In spite of, not because of. |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:04:00 -
[133] - Quote
Brutorthegreat wrote:The economy is broken. I would rather they get it all done at once then drag out this painful situation. seriously.
Thats what ppl said when they voted in Mittens as CSM, then they bitched when he proved he wanted to do it lol
Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:05:00 -
[134] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Richard Aiel wrote:Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? Funny, the high sec bears are having fun playing EVE too... why dont we just ignore each other then rofl Sandbox. We don't have to.
lol that comes off as a nanny nanny boo boo type reply... as the reply is "sandbox. I can if I want to"
Im rubber youre glue all that Ravan Hekki: "Well done CCP. Banned tears the best sort of tears." especially Goon tears
|
Liam Mirren
430
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:23:00 -
[135] - Quote
Chaos is good. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:39:00 -
[136] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Amity Lane wrote:If be "economic disaster" you mean "turned America into the richest, most powerful nation on the planet", then sure.
In spite of, not because of.
This, tbh. The New Deal only propped the economy up. FDR paused it for a time and it went right back down the drain. Military production for WW2 is what brought us out of the depression, not the New Deal. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:42:00 -
[137] - Quote
Artemis Ahab wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Amity Lane wrote:If be "economic disaster" you mean "turned America into the richest, most powerful nation on the planet", then sure.
In spite of, not because of. This, tbh. The New Deal only propped the economy up. FDR paused it for a time and it went right back down the drain. Military production for WW2 is what brought us out of the depression, not the New Deal. Without all the new roads and bridges built under the New Deal, that military production would have been basically impossible.
See also: Cause and effect. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:48:00 -
[138] - Quote
I'm not saying it didn't help. I'm saying people give it too much credit, and that it did not bring us out if the depression, which is the impression I got from his original post about it. If we hadn't gotten involved in WW2 when we did the New Deal would have been a massive failure. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:52:00 -
[139] - Quote
Artemis Ahab wrote:I'm not saying it didn't help. I'm saying people give it too much credit, and that it did not bring us out if the depression, which is the impression I got from his original post about it. If we hadn't gotten involved in WW2 when we did the New Deal would have been a massive failure.
Yeah, just look at Stockholm...
The fact of the matter is that precious capitalism, driven by the war, could not have occurred without the New Deal. Capitalism had utterly failed and there was no real wealth - anywhere. Let alone production.
Therefore, the New Deal brought us out of The Depression.
Subsequent events were subsequent. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Zircon Dasher
130
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:55:00 -
[140] - Quote
lol @ epistemic problems with conceptions of causal relationships in open and dynamic systems. |
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Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:59:00 -
[141] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:lol @ epistemic problems with conceptions of causal relationships in open and dynamic systems. You're right, in a complex system cause and effect become completely divorced.
Those roads and bridges were built in spite of the New Deal, not because of it. The American people, rebellious as ever, decided that, despite the government's offer of paychecks, it made better sense to just communally build roads and bridges so that when the Japanese attacked a decade later, we could be ready to respond.
In a sense, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor built those roads and bridges and restored the US infrastructure.
Cause and effect, who needs them? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Zircon Dasher
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:36:00 -
[142] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:lol @ epistemic problems with conceptions of causal relationships in open and dynamic systems. You're right, in a complex system cause and effect become completely divorced. Those roads and bridges were built in spite of the New Deal, not because of it. The American people, rebellious as ever, decided that, despite the government's offer of paychecks, it made better sense to just communally build roads and bridges so that when the Japanese attacked a decade later, we could be ready to respond. In a sense, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor built those roads and bridges and restored the US infrastructure. Cause and effect, who needs them?
4 realsies? |
Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
68
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Different world. Now Tier 2 Battlecruisers are the norm and add on's like Rigs and a lack of T1 Balance around T2 Fitting stats have made ships like T1 Cruisers less then viable for engagements. With all the new ships the bar is being set higher and higher with what you have to use to compete.
Back then a T1 Battleship was like a Capital today and Frigates / Cruisers were the norm. Now the field has expanded. The rebalance may help lower the cost of entry level PvP making ISK Costs go down for T1 Ships which might alleviate the problem.
True enough, but I'll tell ya something. Fun in Eve is not defined by the nifty ship, it is defined by what you do with it. It is more fun to get your corp mates and try to do a lvl 4 in T1 cruisers than all of you in pimped out faction sparkle boats. One of the most fun experience I had in Eve was in Null sec. I fit up a crappy blackbird with whatever crap I could find on the market, all T1 stuff. I joined the fleet and some guy laughed, "hu hu hu, you won't jam anything with that!". Well a few minutes later, off we ran to help some blues save a carrier that was under attack by some reds. In we zip to the carrier and I locked the reds, each one of them, zap. I jammed them all in a cheap little crappy ship. The fleet asked, "Why didn't they shoot? What happened." I told them, "I used my crappy little blackbird." They didn't laugh at my crappy blackbird after that or my crazy caracal stuffed full of tracking disrupters. You do not need the big fancy pants ship to have fun. In fact, flying what you can afford to loose and not giving a damn is where the fun is.
nerf ecm |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Different world. Now Tier 2 Battlecruisers are the norm and add on's like Rigs and a lack of T1 Balance around T2 Fitting stats have made ships like T1 Cruisers less then viable for engagements. With all the new ships the bar is being set higher and higher with what you have to use to compete.
Back then a T1 Battleship was like a Capital today and Frigates / Cruisers were the norm. Now the field has expanded. The rebalance may help lower the cost of entry level PvP making ISK Costs go down for T1 Ships which might alleviate the problem.
True enough, but I'll tell ya something. Fun in Eve is not defined by the nifty ship, it is defined by what you do with it. It is more fun to get your corp mates and try to do a lvl 4 in T1 cruisers than all of you in pimped out faction sparkle boats. One of the most fun experience I had in Eve was in Null sec. I fit up a crappy blackbird with whatever crap I could find on the market, all T1 stuff. I joined the fleet and some guy laughed, "hu hu hu, you won't jam anything with that!". Well a few minutes later, off we ran to help some blues save a carrier that was under attack by some reds. In we zip to the carrier and I locked the reds, each one of them, zap. I jammed them all in a cheap little crappy ship. The fleet asked, "Why didn't they shoot? What happened." I told them, "I used my crappy little blackbird." They didn't laugh at my crappy blackbird after that or my crazy caracal stuffed full of tracking disrupters. You do not need the big fancy pants ship to have fun. In fact, flying what you can afford to loose and not giving a damn is where the fun is. nerf ecm
I personally disdain this over-used tearpost, but you sir have earned a +1 from me for it this time! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
511
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 03:06:00 -
[145] - Quote
Potamus Jenkins wrote:nerf ecm Why?
People with falcon alts are the easiest to bait, they will always engage clearly superior ships purely because they believe they can jam you. Fit some ECCM and fit for ranged DPS, overheat the ECCM to kill the falcon, then kill them.
At worst you get a ~150m recon kill, at best you kill whatever the hell they engaged you in as well.
Unless you're complaining about it in small fleet fights? In which case why not fit up one ship specifically for killing the falcon? One of my alliance mates has a pretty funny anti-falcon sacrilege he likes to use a lot.
Anyway, a falcon isn't really that big of a deal unless you aren't prepared for it. It's a force multiplier with very low EHP and easily accessible counters, I'd rather face a rag-tag gang with a falcon than face a sniper gang with rapiers, arazus etc.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 03:28:00 -
[146] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?
Completely unrelated, but that was fun.
|
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
222
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 03:31:00 -
[147] - Quote
L'ouris wrote:Malcanis wrote:
If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?
Completely unrelated, but that was fun.
Yeah, one of those events obviously happened in Star Trek Online... He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
Seems like most people here think I am wrong with my views of chaos on the horizon. That's OK, I have never been one to believe the masses are always right.
Here is a question that NO ONE but CCP can answer: What will be the ISK bounties set on the drones? Keep in mind, all those players in the Drone Regions won't suddenly disappear. Suddenly they are creating ISK with drone bounties. And let's not forget the drone bounties that will still occur in high sec. I would estimate that 10-12% of all the missions my L4 agent gives me are Drone missions.
So you are looking at a bump in high sec bounties as well. But the elephant in the room will be the increases ISK from the Drone Lands.
So CCP, I ask again, do you REALLY know how ALL these simultaneous changes will impact the economy? How much ISK do you forsee being injected into the economy at the same time all these high end minerals are vanishing?
Tinkering with many sinks and faucets at once is a recipe for wild fluctuations.
But hell, what do I care. My 2 accounts are sitting on about 8 billion in cash. I will buy plexes with that as long as the cash holds out. If the game becomes unpleasant for me to play, I will just slip away as do most people who quit the game.
Hopefully, I am wrong and the game remains interesting and enjoyable to play. I am just not betting on it. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
224
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:09:00 -
[149] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Seems like most people here think I am wrong with my views of chaos on the horizon. That's OK, I have never been one to believe the masses are always right.
Here is a question that NO ONE but CCP can answer: What will be the ISK bounties set on the drones? Keep in mind, all those players in the Drone Regions won't suddenly disappear. Suddenly they are creating ISK with drone bounties. And let's not forget the drone bounties that will still occur in high sec. I would estimate that 10-12% of all the missions my L4 agent gives me are Drone missions.
So you are looking at a bump in high sec bounties as well. But the elephant in the room will be the increases ISK from the Drone Lands.
So CCP, I ask again, do you REALLY know how ALL these simultaneous changes will impact the economy? How much ISK do you forsee being injected into the economy at the same time all these high end minerals are vanishing?
Tinkering with many sinks and faucets at once is a recipe for wild fluctuations.
But hell, what do I care. My 2 accounts are sitting on about 8 billion in cash. I will buy plexes with that as long as the cash holds out. If the game becomes unpleasant for me to play, I will just slip away as do most people who quit the game.
Hopefully, I am wrong and the game remains interesting and enjoyable to play. I am just not betting on it.
Let's say you're right and the ISK injection is titanic.
So was the expulsion of all the botter ISK and items being destroyed. Those bots paid their subs through PLEX, which profit CCP more than normal for-pay subs at the end of the day. That also had an effect on Eve's economy. It drove up the demand for PLEX and therefore the price.
So we get a fountain of ISK which hypothetically will be titanic balanced against the titanic sink of destroyed and queued for destruction ISK from botters.
Looks like business as usual to me. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
214
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Spaceships is srs bizness. Mhm. |
|
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
214
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:22:00 -
[151] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:L'ouris wrote:Malcanis wrote:
If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?
Completely unrelated, but that was fun. Yeah, one of those events obviously happened in Star Trek Online... You owe me for cold coffee,which just exited my nose. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:25:00 -
[152] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right?
And yet the CSM hasn't looked at a High Sec nerf they don't like. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:25:00 -
[153] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:L'ouris wrote:Malcanis wrote:
If CCP didn't ban anyone for the battle of LXQ (3000+ in one system) what makes you think they'll ban anyone for burning Jita?
Completely unrelated, but that was fun. Yeah, one of those events obviously happened in Star Trek Online... You owe me for cold coffee,which just exited my nose.
Sorry about that, just doing my part to add content to the Eve universe! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:25:00 -
[154] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: But it does benefit Null Bears, so I suppose that makes it okay.
It will make, by itself, INFLATION WORSE.
Good, Eve needs some price inflation. It's also good for high sec. Maybe you can find something else to do other than shoot rats. As prices go up, the value in shooting rats goes down. Instead, maybe build ammo, mine something, trade over priced ships to rat chasing people? There's an entire sandbox out there that does not involve shooting red + symbols.
So you think Miners are better than Mission Runners?
Or are you just trying to sound clever? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
513
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:26:00 -
[155] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Seems like most people here think I am wrong with my views of chaos on the horizon. That's OK, I have never been one to believe the masses are always right.
Here is a question that NO ONE but CCP can answer: What will be the ISK bounties set on the drones? Keep in mind, all those players in the Drone Regions won't suddenly disappear. Suddenly they are creating ISK with drone bounties. And let's not forget the drone bounties that will still occur in high sec. I would estimate that 10-12% of all the missions my L4 agent gives me are Drone missions.
So you are looking at a bump in high sec bounties as well. But the elephant in the room will be the increases ISK from the Drone Lands.
So CCP, I ask again, do you REALLY know how ALL these simultaneous changes will impact the economy? How much ISK do you forsee being injected into the economy at the same time all these high end minerals are vanishing?
Tinkering with many sinks and faucets at once is a recipe for wild fluctuations.
But hell, what do I care. My 2 accounts are sitting on about 8 billion in cash. I will buy plexes with that as long as the cash holds out. If the game becomes unpleasant for me to play, I will just slip away as do most people who quit the game.
Hopefully, I am wrong and the game remains interesting and enjoyable to play. I am just not betting on it. No one is disagreeing with your view of economic chaos on the horizon, although it probably won't be *that* bad. What we are disagreeing with is your view that this is a bad thing.
As you've said, you are currently sitting on around 8 billion ISK. Most long time players have much larger stashes tucked away that currently go unused, this is not a sign of a "healthy" economy in a computer game. Maybe in real life it is desirable for everyone to be able to afford everything, but not in a game.
Many games have been ruined in the past because everything became too accessible, in my honest opinion Eve could very much do with a little bit of poverty to ensure this doesn't happen to us. It has already begun to head in that direction, hopefully CCP can save the day before it is too late.
Either way, this seems like a step in the correct direction.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:29:00 -
[156] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Seems like most people here think I am wrong with my views of chaos on the horizon. That's OK, I have never been one to believe the masses are always right.
Here is a question that NO ONE but CCP can answer: What will be the ISK bounties set on the drones? Keep in mind, all those players in the Drone Regions won't suddenly disappear. Suddenly they are creating ISK with drone bounties. And let's not forget the drone bounties that will still occur in high sec. I would estimate that 10-12% of all the missions my L4 agent gives me are Drone missions.
So you are looking at a bump in high sec bounties as well. But the elephant in the room will be the increases ISK from the Drone Lands.
So CCP, I ask again, do you REALLY know how ALL these simultaneous changes will impact the economy? How much ISK do you forsee being injected into the economy at the same time all these high end minerals are vanishing?
Tinkering with many sinks and faucets at once is a recipe for wild fluctuations.
But hell, what do I care. My 2 accounts are sitting on about 8 billion in cash. I will buy plexes with that as long as the cash holds out. If the game becomes unpleasant for me to play, I will just slip away as do most people who quit the game.
Hopefully, I am wrong and the game remains interesting and enjoyable to play. I am just not betting on it. No one is disagreeing with your view of economic chaos on the horizon, although it probably won't be *that* bad. What we are disagreeing with is your view that this is a bad thing. As you've said, you are currently sitting on around 8 billion ISK. Most long time players have much larger stashes tucked away that currently go unused, this is not a sign of a "healthy" economy in a computer game. Maybe in real life it is desirable for everyone to be able to afford everything, but not in a game. Many games have been ruined in the past because everything became too accessible, in my honest opinion Eve could very much do with a little bit of poverty to ensure this doesn't happen to us. It has already begun to head in that direction, hopefully CCP can save the day before it is too late. Either way, this seems like a step in the correct direction.
So making it impossible for new high sec players to afford anything will be helpful.
Indeed.
You know why Rift failed? Cause the Gersh decided to make Bright Wizards II and *BLEEP* all over Rogues, who were like 1/3 of all players.
High Sec is more than half of all players.
I suspect someone in CCP has gotten tired of explaining to the children why destroying themselves is a bad idea and has decided to let the toddlers get to it. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:29:00 -
[157] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? And yet the CSM hasn't looked at a High Sec nerf they don't like.
Obvious nerf requirements are obvious.
RISK = REWARD
The kiddie rides are never as good as the big coasters. You heard it here first! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:32:00 -
[158] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? And yet the CSM hasn't looked at a High Sec nerf they don't like. Obvious nerf requirements are obvious. RISK = REWARD The kiddie rides are never as good as the big coasters. You heard it here first!
Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level? |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
215
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:32:00 -
[159] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Obvious nerf requirements are obvious.
RISK = REWARD
The kiddie rides are never as good as the big coasters. You heard it here first!
Agreed. Same reason why Macs don't have viruses.
|
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:33:00 -
[160] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Ptraci wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Clearly the Null Bears are bent on "cornering the market" regardless of the consequences to EVE.
Er, the "null bears" couldn't give a damn about your precious high sec market - we're too busy having fun playing EVE. You know you can make stuff in null sec right? And yet the CSM hasn't looked at a High Sec nerf they don't like. Obvious nerf requirements are obvious. RISK = REWARD The kiddie rides are never as good as the big coasters. You heard it here first! Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
In fact, it exceeds it in many areas. True story. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
|
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:34:00 -
[161] - Quote
Quote:Quote: Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
In fact, it exceeds it in many areas. True story.
Completely shameless. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
231
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:40:00 -
[162] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Quote:Quote: Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
In fact, it exceeds it in many areas. True story. Completely shameless.
- Incursions > nullsec anything per capita
- Production (More Factories in highsec by far than null)
- Research, for same reason
- Very New Players (they can't kill 0.0 npc's)
- Ice Mining (more Ice, easy 23/7 access)
Shall I go on or are you unshamed yet? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
149
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:46:00 -
[163] - Quote
They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
|
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
231
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 04:47:00 -
[164] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
Nice hoodie! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:15:00 -
[165] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
This is an ISK sink how?
Or is it just like the cooliest to make them care-bears cry?
I KNOW! I KNOW!
We should make Rifters cost 50,000,00000 ISK! Won't them Care-bears cry when we pawnz them!
That would be so awesome!
Then they will unsubscribe cause they are whiney and don't want to spend a week making money for a single Rifter!
WHINERS! |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:18:00 -
[166] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Quote:Quote: Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
In fact, it exceeds it in many areas. True story. Completely shameless.
- Incursions > nullsec anything per capita
- Production (More Factories in highsec by far than null)
- Research, for same reason
- Very New Players (they can't kill 0.0 npc's)
- Ice Mining (more Ice, easy 23/7 access)
Shall I go on or are you ashamed yet?
Production is often zero profit or even negative given that "Everything I mine is free" crowd.
Research is crowded, POS is used for just that reason.
Very, very new players may not be able to rat belts but they can "rat" missions for more money than High Sec. Most players more than a month old can rat 0.0.
Ice Mining is probably better in High Sec. That would explain the Goon hatred of it. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:18:00 -
[167] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
This is an ISK sink how? Or is it just like the cooliest to make them care-bears cry? I KNOW! I KNOW! We should make Rifters cost 50,000,00000 ISK! Won't them Care-bears cry when we pawnz them! That would be so awesome! Then they will unsubscribe cause they are whiney and don't want to spend a week making money for a single Rifter! WHINERS!
This is what the addition of the Incursion ISK fountain is doing to prices. Even in null-sec.
The CSM are trying to stop that.
But along with helping High-sec has to come some kind of reasonable scale of risk vs. reward for the risk-averse but skilled players who continue to reside there instead of moving on in pursuit of greater reward at the cost of increased peril. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:20:00 -
[168] - Quote
Back to topic.
Removing loot drops DOES NOT REDUCE INFLATION. IT INCREASES IT.
Removing drone minerals DOES NOT REDUCE INFLATION. IT INCREASES IT.
HELLO! HELLO! |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:22:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Quote:Quote: Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
In fact, it exceeds it in many areas. True story. Completely shameless.
- Incursions > nullsec anything per capita
- Production (More Factories in highsec by far than null)
- Research, for same reason
- Very New Players (they can't kill 0.0 npc's)
- Ice Mining (more Ice, easy 23/7 access)
Shall I go on or are you ashamed yet? Production is often zero profit or even negative given that "Everything I mine is free" crowd. Research is crowded, POS is used for just that reason. Very, very new players may not be able to rat belts but they can "rat" missions for more money than High Sec. Most players more than a month old can rat 0.0. Ice Mining is probably better in High Sec. That would explain the Goon hatred of it.
No, mining it doesn't make it free. It makes it cheaper, a value you can assign yourself given the value of your time. Production still yields profit, and therefore ISK/hr.
Research POS in high-sec last I checked are invulnerable to wardecs, am I right? By the way what about the 24 hour cooldown before people can even shoot your research POS? Because boy us null-sec people would sure love 24 hours notice every damn time...
Notice that I said Very New Players. I did not say Month Old Players.
Not to mention all low-end mining for the same reason I stated about ice.
Face it, there are plenty of avenues of income in high-sec which pay more ISK per hour than their null-sec correlaries.
That is whack. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:23:00 -
[170] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
This is an ISK sink how? Or is it just like the cooliest to make them care-bears cry? I KNOW! I KNOW! We should make Rifters cost 50,000,00000 ISK! Won't them Care-bears cry when we pawnz them! That would be so awesome! Then they will unsubscribe cause they are whiney and don't want to spend a week making money for a single Rifter! WHINERS! This is what the addition of the Incursion ISK fountain is doing to prices. Even in null-sec. The CSM are trying to stop that. But along with helping High-sec has to come some kind of reasonable scale of risk vs. reward for the risk-averse but skilled players who continue to reside there instead of moving on in pursuit of greater reward at the cost of increased peril.
And they accomplish this by making inflation worse!
They solve the problem by making it worse!
WOO HOO!!!!!!!
The tactics the Goons employ only work when the victim can't leave. |
|
Zircon Dasher
131
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:23:00 -
[171] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Incursions > nullsec anything per capita
This is the best one! |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:26:00 -
[172] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:They very much want things to be, in general, harder to afford and more significant to lose.
This is an ISK sink how? Or is it just like the cooliest to make them care-bears cry? I KNOW! I KNOW! We should make Rifters cost 50,000,00000 ISK! Won't them Care-bears cry when we pawnz them! That would be so awesome! Then they will unsubscribe cause they are whiney and don't want to spend a week making money for a single Rifter! WHINERS! This is what the addition of the Incursion ISK fountain is doing to prices. Even in null-sec. The CSM are trying to stop that. But along with helping High-sec has to come some kind of reasonable scale of risk vs. reward for the risk-averse but skilled players who continue to reside there instead of moving on in pursuit of greater reward at the cost of increased peril. And they accomplish this by making inflation worse! They solve the problem by making it worse! WOO HOO!!!!!!! The tactics the Goons employ only work when the victim can't leave.
You have a very viable strategy there.
It's not like you people couldn't organize players to run and vote properly against them. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
151
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:27:00 -
[173] - Quote
You're working with false premises here.
They don't really care about inflation because it's not game-breakingly high and it's not a real world economy. What they care far more about is risk/reward balances, mining as a player-run task, and the devaluation of acquiring ships. Those are the reasons why you're seeing the drone change and the bounty adjustments. Again, they want ships to be harder to get than they are now.
Possible ISK sinks are a whole other matter, and a distant second in importance to balancing the actual output of the economy in a way that promotes generally better gameplay. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:29:00 -
[174] - Quote
Quote:Quote:
Production is often zero profit or even negative given that "Everything I mine is free" crowd.
Research is crowded, POS is used for just that reason.
Very, very new players may not be able to rat belts but they can "rat" missions for more money than High Sec. Most players more than a month old can rat 0.0.
Ice Mining is probably better in High Sec. That would explain the Goon hatred of it.
No, mining it doesn't make it free. It makes it cheaper, a value you can assign yourself given the value of your time. Production still yields profit, and therefore ISK/hr. Research POS in high-sec last I checked are invulnerable to wardecs, am I right? By the way what about the 24 hour cooldown before people can even shoot your research POS? Because boy us null-sec people would sure love 24 hours notice every damn time... Notice that I said Very New Players. I did not say Month Old Players. Not to mention all low-end mining for the same reason I stated about ice. Face it, there are plenty of avenues of income in high-sec which pay more ISK per hour than their null-sec correlaries. That is whack.
Oh yeah, Null Sec POS dropped in the middle of your territory get shot at all the time, I am sure.
And thank you for agreeing that mining isn't free. That does not change the fact that some people seem to think it is and then destroy manufacturing profits because of that.
Players less than one month old are important, and the imbalance between null/high for ratting is obviously of a very temporary nature. It SHOULD be that way.
Low end mining does not compete with ABC mining. Ice mining may, so no wonder Goons and CSM are hysterical about it.
LOOK LOOK! The high-secers have SOMETHING. Must smash! |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:32:00 -
[175] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:You're working with false premises here.
They don't really care about inflation because it's not game-breakingly high and it's not a real world economy. What they care far more about is risk/reward balances, mining as a player-run task, and the devaluation of acquiring ships. Those are the reasons why you're seeing the drone change and the bounty adjustments. Again, they want ships to be harder to get than they are now.
Possible ISK sinks are a whole other matter, and a distant second in importance to balancing the actual output of the economy in a way that promotes generally better gameplay.
They do not care about risk/reward balance in the slightest extent or low-sec would have the highest reward of anywhere.
Don't be absurd. The average null-sec drone has far less risk than almost any resident of low-sec. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
233
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:33:00 -
[176] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Quote:Quote:
Production is often zero profit or even negative given that "Everything I mine is free" crowd.
Research is crowded, POS is used for just that reason.
Very, very new players may not be able to rat belts but they can "rat" missions for more money than High Sec. Most players more than a month old can rat 0.0.
Ice Mining is probably better in High Sec. That would explain the Goon hatred of it.
No, mining it doesn't make it free. It makes it cheaper, a value you can assign yourself given the value of your time. Production still yields profit, and therefore ISK/hr. Research POS in high-sec last I checked are invulnerable to wardecs, am I right? By the way what about the 24 hour cooldown before people can even shoot your research POS? Because boy us null-sec people would sure love 24 hours notice every damn time... Notice that I said Very New Players. I did not say Month Old Players. Not to mention all low-end mining for the same reason I stated about ice. Face it, there are plenty of avenues of income in high-sec which pay more ISK per hour than their null-sec correlaries. That is whack. Oh yeah, Null Sec POS dropped in the middle of your territory get shot at all the time, I am sure. And thank you for agreeing that mining isn't free. That does not change the fact that some people seem to think it is and then destroy manufacturing profits because of that. Players less than one month old are important, and the imbalance between null/high for ratting is obviously of a very temporary nature. It SHOULD be that way. Low end mining does not compete with ABC mining. Ice mining may, so no wonder Goons and CSM are hysterical about it. LOOK LOOK! The high-secers have SOMETHING. Most smash!
New players should make the most ISK/hr in high-sec.
Reasonably competent and experienced players should always make more ISK/hr elsewhere.
That's not so hard to agree on.
Also, notice I didn't name high-end mining.
I just want to point out that you were totally strawmanning me with that last point. I was comparing low-end mining in high-sec vs. low/null. It's incontrovertibly obvious where the highest actual ISK/hr is. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
151
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:34:00 -
[177] - Quote
Ah, I see. This has nothing to do with "the economy", and everything to do with the incoming risk/reward balancing.
In that case, forget all the "discussion" and just deal wiz it. It's coming, and no amount of NPC alt forum whining and unsub threatening is going to stop it. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:39:00 -
[178] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Ah, I see. This has nothing to do with "the economy", and everything to do with the incoming risk/reward balancing.
In that case, forget all the "discussion" and just deal wiz it. It's coming, and no amount of NPC alt forum whining and unsub threatening is going to stop it.
Again, it has nothing to do with risk/reward.
I will go farther and say it has nothing to do with anything except weak people going out drinking with the CSM and then getting really stupid ideas locked in their heads.
CCP: Inflation is out of control, what do I do, what do I do?
Mittani: These changes will fix it!
CCP:Yes, and you are obviously a paragon of virtue with no ulterior motive! I will implement these changes without thinking about them at all!
Mittani:Yes, yes.......
Well, CCP, here is the Clue Train coming:
Nerfing Product inputs INCREASES inflation.
Nerfing ISK inputs DECREASES inflation.
ISK Sinks also decrease inflation and would be easy to implement as well. Like a ISK TAX on refining. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:40:00 -
[179] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:Ah, I see. This has nothing to do with "the economy", and everything to do with the incoming risk/reward balancing.
In that case, forget all the "discussion" and just deal wiz it. It's coming, and no amount of NPC alt forum whining and unsub threatening is going to stop it. Again, it has nothing to do with risk/reward. I will go farther and say it has nothing to do with anything except weak people going out drinking with the CSM and then getting really stupid ideas locked in their heads. CCP: Inflation is out of control, what do I do, what do I do? Mittani: These changes will fix it! CCP:Yes, and you are obviously a paragon of virtue with no ulterior motive! I will implement these changes without thinking about them at all! Mittani:Yes, yes.......
You should have a very successful CSM8 campaign. I'll consider giving you my vote.
Suggestion: Organize your voters. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
153
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:41:00 -
[180] - Quote
OMNOMNOM
Incoherent hisec forum warrior tears. These are only going to get better and better as these changes land and the jita camp starts. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
514
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:45:00 -
[181] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:OMNOMNOM
Incoherent hisec forum warrior tears. These are only going to get better and better as these changes land and the jita camp starts. This Jessie guy is priceless. Well worth the nerfs just for the last few pages of forum posts, screw economic repercussions I'll happily vote for further nerfing everything purely for more of his impotent whinging on the forums.
--Will Support Your Terrible Forum Thread For ISK-- |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
234
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 05:46:00 -
[182] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Darth Tickles wrote:OMNOMNOM
Incoherent hisec forum warrior tears. These are only going to get better and better as these changes land and the jita camp starts. This Jessie guy is priceless. Well worth the nerfs just for the last few pages of forum posts, screw economic repercussions I'll happily vote for further nerfing everything purely for more of his impotent whinging on the forums.
There are some things ISK can't buy. They're pretty much all available on the GD forums, though.
\o/ He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
457
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 16:50:00 -
[183] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Are you suggesting that High Sec income is currently equal to null sec income for any SP level?
Are you seriously suggesting that the guy who earns 1 million isk an hour and whose only expense is ammo needs the same ISK as the guy who earns 10 million an hour but has to replace clones and implants (all part of the isk sink) on almost a daily basis, not to mention ships?
Oh you make a lot more in nullsec. But you spend a hell of a lot more too. That is unless you really are a "null bear" and log off every time someone shows up in local. So you may go on about the "riches" to be had in nullsec, but I'm damned if I know, after alliance fees and sov fees and replacement costs and hauling costs and fuel costs, how you actually get to keep those riches. Money comes in, money goes out. It doesn't stick around for very long. But boy do I have more fun than I did shooting rats or rocks. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
135
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:14:00 -
[184] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:You're working with false premises here.
They don't really care about inflation because it's not game-breakingly high and it's not a real world economy. What they care far more about is risk/reward balances, mining as a player-run task, and the devaluation of acquiring ships. Those are the reasons why you're seeing the drone change and the bounty adjustments. Again, they want ships to be harder to get than they are now.
Possible ISK sinks are a whole other matter, and a distant second in importance to balancing the actual output of the economy in a way that promotes generally better gameplay.
lol Darth are you trying to use the Dark side powers to read CCP's minds? If so U are doing a bad job. CCP doesn't care about inflation because its not game wreaking?? if so that's pretty short sided on CCP's part especially with the intro of a possible huge ISK faucet (drones)
Nice to see what they care for & sure there's no lip service in what you are saying they care for CCP would be VERY, VERY short sided if they where wanting ships to be harder to get than they are now for newbies because they'd be seeing ALOT of unsubs from them... if CCP DEVs were smart they'd make the tier 1&2 BC's & BS's easier to get but look at the HUGE cost spikes in Drakes!!! If CCP was making the tuffer hi end BS+ ships & T3's ( and super CAPs) to get then it'd be a much wiser route but I foresee the mineral loss not appreciably making them as expensive a difference then the lower end ships percentage wise.
I hope there is a piece in the economy that CCP is currently keeping close to their vest and will release on the 24th with the rest of Escalation because without a ISK sink or bounty nerf there'll be ALOT of turbulence ( although I guess some rocky economic period would add somespice to the game as long as it isn't hurting subsscriptions ) An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
531
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:21:00 -
[185] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: if CCP DEVs were snart they'd make the tier 1&2 BC's & BS's easier to get but look at the HUGE cost spikes in Drakes!!! If CCP was making the tuffer hi end BS+ ships & T3's to get while then it'd be a much wiser route for a gal to reach but I foresee the mineral loss not appreciably making them as expensive a difference then the lower end ships/
And the result would be more money in the system with prices dropping further. Eventually the only thing worth doing would be shooting rats in high sec. That would kill the sandbox and turn it into an amusement park. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:51:00 -
[186] - Quote
A starting player, with 1-2 mill sp that went out mining for a drake say.. 6 months ago, would have to mine for X hours in a mining cruiser to get his drake. That would net him 30 mill isk.
Today, he will get 50 mill isk for the same work.
If he then sell the drake, the new player will be at an advantage because he has more isk to buy mods, invest in blue prints or speculate in mods.
The loser here is the isk heavy lazy NULL bear that is to cool to mine, do not salvage his rats and have a high-sec incursion alt. HIS work just got cut 50%.
If he instead now go out and mine along with 500 of his friends, in NULL sec, well, then he will to profit, and help drag the price on minerals down. As long as the NULL bears are 'to cool to work', they have to live with the fact that inflation will eat up their stash of ISK.
|
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
157
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 20:38:00 -
[187] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
lol Darth are you trying to use the Dark side powers to read CCP's minds?
No, I'm following fanfest presentations and dev blogs so I actually know what I'm talking about. |
bornaa
GRiD.
187
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 21:40:00 -
[188] - Quote
I am all for higher prices. Maybe now we will see and smaller ships that noone used because they had too much money. That Ain't Right |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 22:11:00 -
[189] - Quote
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:A starting player, with 1-2 mill sp that went out mining for a drake say.. 6 months ago, would have to mine for X hours in a mining cruiser to get his drake. That would net him 30 mill isk.
Today, he will get 50 mill isk for the same work.
If he then sell the drake, the new player will be at an advantage because he has more isk to buy mods, invest in blue prints or speculate in mods.
The loser here is the isk heavy lazy NULL bear that is to cool to mine, do not salvage his rats and have a high-sec incursion alt. HIS work just got cut 50%.
If he instead now go out and mine along with 500 of his friends, in NULL sec, well, then he will to profit, and help drag the price on minerals down. As long as the NULL bears are 'to cool to work', they have to live with the fact that inflation will eat up their stash of ISK.
Mining for new players is already stupidly better than Mission Running. New player can wipe in a Level 1 mission before he upgrades to a destroyer(assuming he knows a destroyer exists). If the new player doesn't understand you can warp out in seconds and just how fast you can die, he is guaranteed wipes. Many wipes. Without "max" frigate and skills, Lvl 1 missions can blow up a frigate fast and that is exactly the kind of situation a new player is in.
The missions also pay about 1/3 of what a new player(1 day old) can make mining. If a new player gets racial mining frigate, level 1 industrial, and jetcan mines he can easily make 800,000 ISK/hr.
Even with a destroyer, it is doubtful that a new player will beat mining Veldspar in 1.0 space.
So missions have been kind of nerfed. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 22:24:00 -
[190] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
lol Darth are you trying to use the Dark side powers to read CCP's minds?
No, I'm following fanfest presentations and dev blogs so I actually know what I'm talking about.
Funny how 2 people can listen to the same thing then come to opposite conclusions in may diiferent ways, huh? Do you really think CCP's actions which are doubling the price of Drakes making them more tuff to get is thier intention? Right now the highest end ships (Titans ) prices are not anywhere close to doubling like with Drakes ( probably dropping in price lately, no? They'll I bet not be more difficult to purchase & I bet after the next nerf thier prices won't increase appreciably due to lack of demand ( not becuase the lack of minerals but lack of usefullness compared to pre nerf ) An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
534
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 22:30:00 -
[191] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote: So missions have already been kind of nerfed.
That thought right there, is the light at the end of the tunnel. Stick with it.
BTW, since that noob is not shooting rats, none of that ISK came into the economy either. |
The Racketeer
Hardcore Industries
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 23:38:00 -
[192] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Who would have thought that the (grand name) Military Inferno Patch would be the best industry patch ever.
"Industry stimulus package"
It increases PvP witch will increase ship losses and increases mineral value through loot and drone poop nerfs all at the same time. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc Order of the Void
255
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 23:47:00 -
[193] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Montevius Williams wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one. If they are getting rid of meta 0 items from loot drops, that would be amazing. Stop letting mission runners bypass two professions at once (miners, manufacterers). So the solution to ISK inflation is to reduce the product inputs of High Sec even more. That's not the way the real economy works. Jesus. I mean for people who ramble on and on about "player driven economy" they don't know the first thing about how an economy actually works. Yes, yes, let's FURTHER REDUCE the real product input of High Sec, that'll reduce inflation for sure! But it does benefit Null Bears, so I suppose that makes it okay. It will make, by itself, INFLATION WORSE.
Bottom line is, EVERYTHING in EVE needs to be player made. Why should I, as a manufactuer, have to deal with NPC's dropping the same **** I build. It's hard enough trying to sell stuff and competing against other players. Mission runners have it WAY to easy. I mean damn, they get
-Standings -LP -Bounties -Salvage -Minerals -Loot -Mission rewards
Im not saying take away loot, but they should not be getting the same loot that a industrialist can make. It doesnt make sense. |
Jita Alt666
995
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 23:55:00 -
[194] - Quote
Industry Buff = Mission Ratting nerf. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 23:57:00 -
[195] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You want to make changes for some kind of perception that the economy is broken.
OK, I get that. But nobody in their right mind would change so many things in such a complicated system in such short order as you are. I already posted a thread with the changes that are happening in the next 7 weeks, and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops. Yes, I recognize this merely moves the wealth from the mission runners to the miners and industrialists.
But are you planning on changing SO many things simultaneously, you will be introducing chaos into the economy. Sure, eventually it will all settle and new equilibriums reached.
But at what cost? How many subscribers are going to throw their arms in the air with frustration and pack it in? You might get them all back, maybe. I would suggest why risk it?
Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once. If a real life economist suggested making all these changes in such a short span in a 400,000 person economy, they would be fired on the spot. No one knows, especially you CCP, about where this is all going to lead. And many of us don't like change and uncertainty. No real life economy does, and Eve's economy is complex enough to emulate one.
I always turn to the Imperial Academy for my economic analysis |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 00:51:00 -
[196] - Quote
The Racketeer wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Who would have thought that the (grand name) Military Inferno Patch would be the best industry patch ever. "Industry stimulus package" It increases PvP witch will increase ship losses and increases mineral value through loot and drone poop nerfs all at the same time.
"Industry stimulation package" will be interesting since Jita will be burning while Hulkageddon will be raging An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
835
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 11:50:00 -
[197] - Quote
Yeah, that's going to be an interesting time. Less minerals being trucked in from the drone regions, plus less minerals from the meta-zero module drops, plus miners having to scatter to the four winds and mine in grav sites.
Still, it's player-driven content, which is a good thing (as long as the harvest-build-destroy circle stays balanced). |
Falcon Tastic
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 12:01:00 -
[198] - Quote
If these changes allow mining to become profitable I will happily fly out to the belts and afk mine. At current levels it is not worth it. I am pro these changes. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
137
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 17:51:00 -
[199] - Quote
Falcon Tastic wrote:If these changes allow mining to become profitable I will happily fly out to the belts and afk mine. At current levels it is not worth it. I am pro these changes.
Have fun AFK mining during Hulkageddon... I'm suremany will be using their agent locators on you after that post An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
201
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:19:00 -
[200] - Quote
Time to cry out for the end!
Eve community: An angry mob of bright people hunting witches, more torches, more hay forks, growing and growing. |
|
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
154
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 19:37:00 -
[201] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Falcon Tastic wrote:If these changes allow mining to become profitable I will happily fly out to the belts and afk mine. At current levels it is not worth it. I am pro these changes. Have fun AFK mining during Hulkageddon... I'm suremany will be using their agent locators on you after that post
Most ppl I know mine, afk during hulkageddon and have never been hit.
Its a bigger universe than you think
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:18:00 -
[202] - Quote
Dear god, I wish CCP would stop trying to force people into doing things they don't want.
They try to force people out of high-sec. They try to force people to mine. They try to force people to produce tech 1 modules.
STOP. |
Testerxnot Sheepherder
DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew
45
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 20:34:00 -
[203] - Quote
I'm loving the changes being made. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:30:00 -
[204] - Quote
It would have been interesting to see how the economy and thus market would have shaken out if CCP did not announce every change weeks to months beforehand... |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
155
|
Posted - 2012.04.07 21:56:00 -
[205] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:It would have been interesting to see how the economy and thus market would have shaken out if CCP did not announce every change weeks to months beforehand...
I have the same thought as far as juitageddon and hulkageddon. Imagine the damage if they didnt give warning
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
139
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 06:04:00 -
[206] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Dear god, I wish CCP would stop trying to force people into doing things they don't want.
They try to force people out of high-sec. They try to force people to mine. They try to force people to produce tech 1 modules.
STOP.
I don't honestly think CCP is trying to force anyone to anything anymore ( especially after the Incarna flap ) but they are trying to give big enticements to shake the game up. TBH we are about to get a big shake up but I think its in many ways a good thing... Unintended consequences though are going to give every one including CCP a few pauses in the next month to a month in a half i predict An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:04:00 -
[207] - Quote
I'm guessing that the Obama administration is advising CCP on economics. Just throw out sh*t and hope it sticks every few months.
Logic escapes both groups. |
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:06:00 -
[208] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Falcon Tastic wrote:If these changes allow mining to become profitable I will happily fly out to the belts and afk mine. At current levels it is not worth it. I am pro these changes. Have fun AFK mining during Hulkageddon... I'm suremany will be using their agent locators on you after that post Most ppl I know mine, afk during hulkageddon and have never been hit. Its a bigger universe than you think
Pure Lies.
Mittens, they may have banned your main, but I see you still have your alts. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:13:00 -
[209] - Quote
CBA to read this whole thread, skimmed through first page and nowhere there's a link to a source. The only devblog posted in April (for those who don't pay attention to dates, that is the last 8 days) was from Sreegs regarding the RMT. Or are CCP daft like usual and poasting info on external boards to media first? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
550
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:47:00 -
[210] - Quote
Misanth wrote:CBA to read this whole thread, skimmed through first page and nowhere there's a link to a source.
Fanfest news, feature site for first bit of Inferno, a vid on tenton, prices of minerlas on the market. Easy to find stuff. Have fun. :) |
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
541
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:51:00 -
[211] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Misanth wrote:CBA to read this whole thread, skimmed through first page and nowhere there's a link to a source. Fanfest news, feature site for first bit of Inferno, a vid on tenton, prices of minerlas on the market. Easy to find stuff. Have fun. :)
I play EVE, I use eveonline. Tenton is an external source to begin with, that's irrelevant. Prices of minerals could be speculated for plenty of reasons anyway. Fanfest is way too much info to check all you know, even if you are there you can't see all presentations, and if you are not (I paid for the stream), you have days and days of material to check through. Twitter is meaningless as well, you have to dig through the useless drivel to find what's important.
Devblog, or news info on eveonline-/client, everything else is irrelevant. It's easily-accessible, easy to see what it's about in the subject lines, etc. That's the only way news should be presented.
TL;DR you are suggesting to 'figure things out' by reading between the lines on external sources. Ok. I'll re-post then: Source? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Norrin Ellis
Venture Racing
78
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 08:54:00 -
[212] - Quote
Assuming for a moment that drone goo and Meta 0 loot are being removed from the loot tables, I'm very interested to see the effect it has on subscriptions. By no means am I enthusiastic about the change, as these are my preferred source of gathering minerals for the few things that I do occasionally build (usually faction ships for friends), but given that I earn the bulk of my ISK from other activities and never risk ships in PvP, I can afford to sit back and watch.
The major problems that I see here are that people don't really enjoy mining and effectively handing a monopoly on necessary high-end minerals to the nullsec cartels only alienates the majority of the playerbase. I honestly think it might be better to remove mining from the game entirely, refund the skillpoints, and make all mineral production the result of some combat-oriented activity, whether it be PvE or PvP.
The simple fact is that this change will drive up prices for everything. Mining is boring. People who get minerals from missions aren't going to suddenly become miners and keep the supply flowing. The nullsec cartels aren't exaactly philanthropists, so I doubt they'll supply anything at reasonable prices once they've got a lock on the market. Those who do mine are easy targets, and driving up the cost to replace their ships or forcing them to hire mercs to fend off wars will only make matters worse. Let's face it--no matter how many escorts a Hulk has, it's going down in flames to any suicide gankers that care to kill it.
Personally, I only undock to do the occasional mission, and I only collect the loot from the drone missions. For me, this change will mean sitting in station permanently and never undocking. I'll also never build anything, as I'm not willing to pay current mineral prices, so I certainly won't pay when the prices go through the roof. Eventually, this EVE experience will become insufferably boring, and I'll have no choice but to close my two accounts. I can only imagine how players of similar interests that do not have similar bankrolls--I have at least 10 billion on hand at all times--will respond to the change.
I expect that when this change is implemented, I will become a one-man ISK sink. I plan to continue making money by providing a meta-game service (join EOH Poker channel), but I will stop spending ISK in the new EVE economy. No purchases. No loans. No gifts. No capital investments. Money that goes into my pocket might as well have been tossed into a black hole. This will be the effect of the change for me... until I grow weary of giving my RL money to a company that clearly has no concern for my interests as a customer. CEO, Venture Racing Senior Banker, EVE Online Hold'Em |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
551
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 09:12:00 -
[213] - Quote
Misanth wrote: TL;DR you are suggesting to 'figure things out' by reading between the lines on external sources. Ok. I'll re-post then: Source?
google.com |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 12:39:00 -
[214] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:Dear god, I wish CCP would stop trying to force people into doing things they don't want.
They try to force people out of high-sec. They try to force people to mine. They try to force people to produce tech 1 modules.
STOP.
Shut up an mine!
This is a game. Why do you want to have fun? |
J Kunjeh
390
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:02:00 -
[215] - Quote
I'll just leave this here:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/04/stool.html "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:11:00 -
[216] - Quote
He would be right. Accept for the fact that he is wrong.
Indeed, he is totally and completely wrong.
You wanna know you train up skinning in most MMOs ? You kill critters and skin them!
You wanna know how you get cloths and other drops for crafting in most MMOs? You kill critters and they drop them.
You wanna know how you get the faction standing to buy certain recipes? It generally ain't crafting.
You wanna know how you repair your armor after being damaged? It's called GOLD. You get gold by killing monsters!
Clearly, these activities are all GATHERING eh? Just gathering as far as the eye can see.
It is true that flat harvesting amounts to a PART of producing items. It is also true anyone that has ever played another MMO could not possible believe zippee's claims. |
J Kunjeh
390
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:19:00 -
[217] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:He would be right. Accept for the fact that he is wrong. Indeed, he is totally and completely wrong. You wanna know you train up skinning in most MMOs ? You kill critters and skin them! You wanna know how you get cloths and other drops for crafting in most MMOs? You kill critters and they drop them. You wanna know how you get the faction standing to buy certain recipes? It generally ain't crafting. You wanna know how you repair your armor after being damaged? It's called GOLD. You get gold by killing monsters! Clearly, these activities are all GATHERING eh? Just gathering as far as the eye can see. It is true that flat harvesting amounts to a PART of producing items. It is also true anyone that has ever played another MMO could not possible believe zippee's claims.
Was that an argument? Cause yeah, it made no sense whatsoever (when I could understand it through all of the terrible use of the English language). I wouldn't bet on Jester being wrong on this, he has a great track record of being correct most of the time.
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp
126
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:25:00 -
[218] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Misanth wrote:CBA to read this whole thread, skimmed through first page and nowhere there's a link to a source. Fanfest news, feature site for first bit of Inferno, a vid on tenton, prices of minerlas on the market. Easy to find stuff. Have fun. :) I play EVE, I use eveonline. Tenton is an external source to begin with, that's irrelevant. Prices of minerals could be speculated for plenty of reasons anyway. Fanfest is way too much info to check all you know, even if you are there you can't see all presentations, and if you are not (I paid for the stream), you have days and days of material to check through. Twitter is meaningless as well, you have to dig through the useless drivel to find what's important. Devblog, or news info on eveonline-/client, everything else is irrelevant. It's easily-accessible, easy to see what it's about in the subject lines, etc. That's the only way news should be presented. TL;DR you are suggesting to 'figure things out' by reading between the lines on external sources. Ok. I'll re-post then: Source?
Here ya go Inferno Escalation Features Roses are red. Bacon is also red. Poems are hard. Bacon. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:33:00 -
[219] - Quote
J Kunjeh wrote: Was that an argument? Cause yeah, it made no sense whatsoever (when I could understand it through all of the terrible use of the English language). I wouldn't bet on Jester being wrong on this, he has a great track record of being correct most of the time.
The quality of your arguements... that is that they have no quality.... is so low that I can't be bothered to edit my writing.
It is however clear enough for even you to see that most "gathering" and "grinding" in other MMOs involved significant amounts of PvE.
Oh, I forgot Leveling in order to "craft" you character. Forgot that. Oops.
Anyway, his argument is clearly wrong from my counter-examples. I am sure you will continue making petty and pointless shouting and hand-waving. |
YuuKnow
The Long Kiss Goodnight
178
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:35:00 -
[220] - Quote
Wouldn't this change decrease the supply of minerals and thus increase mineral cost and item cost more? |
|
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
413
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 13:56:00 -
[221] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Wouldn't this change decrease the supply of minerals and thus increase mineral cost and item cost more?
We have a winner.
Why do you think people (like me) have invested Billions (50B here) into minerals weeks ago? It's already worth 150% of it's original price.
The changes are good for the economy. It'll allow industrialists to actually earn a profit, and make mining actually worth it to make isk. People won't be forced any more to either do incurstions or lvl 4's for isk. Now they'll be able to do mining and industry too. Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
YuuKnow
The Long Kiss Goodnight
178
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 14:18:00 -
[222] - Quote
btw. Is there a source for this rumor? |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 14:45:00 -
[223] - Quote
Riley Moore wrote:YuuKnow wrote:Wouldn't this change decrease the supply of minerals and thus increase mineral cost and item cost more? We have a winner. Why do you think people (like me) have invested Billions (50B here) into minerals weeks ago? It's already worth 150% of it's original price. The changes are good for the economy. It'll allow industrialists to actually earn a profit, and make mining actually worth it to make isk. People won't be forced any more to either do incurstions or lvl 4's for isk. Now they'll be able to do mining and industry too.
High sec industrialists are taking a huge, huge hit with the destruction of the datacore mechanism and subsequent transition to an FW based datacore production. Further, minerals, unless spawned out of missions, are NOT an unending source like ice. The belts have specific spawn dates and the Euro time zones have a huge advantage when it comes to mining.
You are going to see a ton of angst on the forums when that fact hits home. The people who make money are the traders now, and in the future very high powered miners in the Euro TZ's.
Mission runners get hammered. Datacore farmers get hammered. Incursion runners get hammered. People who do PvP in low end ships are getting hammered. Industrialists will likely get hammered (don't forget, CCP is mulling moving T2 mfg out of high sec, but no hard data on that yet). All non-Euro miners will be fighting for resources, plus we had the joys of a new war dec system that DO NOT favour mining corps. All high sec miners have to endure Hulkageddon and who knows what ganking after that. It would be in the best interest of all null sec corps to permanently park afk alts in every high system that is asteroid rich, just to suppress any high sec mineral production.
All in all, CCP is decimating a lot of isk generation in one sweep. A good number of the chars/accounts can't just turn on a dime to a new profession, even if they want to. A significant percentage will just say screw it, and move onto another game. |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
413
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 14:46:00 -
[224] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:btw. Is there a source for this rumor?
No rumours; facts: http://community.eveonline.com/en/inferno/features/
Quote:Loot Table Changes Show Some Industrialist Love
n++NPC ships will no longer drop manufacturable T1 loot. NPCs will continue to drop modules, however T1 items which have a blueprint will no longer drop, making player manufacturing the primary source for these items.
Quote:Bountiful Drone Rewards
Alloys have been removed from the rogue drones, and bounties have been added to them to bring them in line with other faction mobs. Players no longer have to gather a cargo hold full of alloys to make rogue drone hunting lucrative. Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1490
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 17:02:00 -
[225] - Quote
Just a few observations
1: Concerning the profitability of High Sec vs. Low Sec
There is a reason why most Null Sec players have an industry or mission runner alt in High Sec to fund themselves. Do not confuse Alliance level income sources with Player level income sources
2; The change in the Data Core mechanism is huge, and will be a boon to FW pilots if/when it occurs. However keep in mind that any T2 producer that does any volume rarely obtains enough Data Cores from their research agents to fill their production needs even now. End result, the price of T2 vessels will rise slightly (also due to the increase in mineral and T1 hull costs) but not as much of a percentile increase as T1 hulls do, and FW will receive a big boost. Current Data Core farmers may indeed have to take a serious look at involving an alt in FW, which I personally view as a good thing
3: Asteroids spawning only at down time will be brought sharply into focus, and needs a serious fix. However, increased competition between miners is not necessarily a bad thing. EVE could use more wars started by industrial corporations to protect their interests from rivals. It was one of the main reasons for the war dec system in the first place, and is currently rarely used for this purpose. Rarely will you see a more entertaining battle than one waged between players that are primarily speced for more peaceful pursuits
4: The current cost of vessels (both T1 and T2) are cheap compared to past years. Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available). Also keep in mind that the current insurance system was specifically designed to be easily adjusted to reflect actual ship cost periodically
5: People who like to compare the profitability of mining high end ore vs low end ore need to take yield into consideration. Often mining Veldspar is a more profitable use of ones time, depending on how secure the area the high end ores are mined in. Also consider that if mining becomes a more important part of an alliances income there is also a higher probability it will become a juicier and easier to find target for roaming gangs
6: Hulkageddon has had a minor impact on mineral production in the past, true. However consider that while the cost of the ships necessary to do mining may increase somewhat, when you scale that against the high income being constantly produced the miner still comes out far ahead of where he is currently
7: The debate of drone land bounties causing an ISK injection vs the current mineral injection boils down to how the bounties on drones work out vs the value of the minerals produced currently. If the bounties per drone are equal to or less than the value of their current alloy drops the injection of ISK will not be an issue, merely a boosting of an income poor en devour and a simplification and perhaps slight nerf of a currently lucrative one.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 17:37:00 -
[226] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Just a few observations
1: Concerning the profitability of High Sec vs. Low Sec
There is a reason why most Null Sec players have an industry or mission runner alt in High Sec to fund themselves. Do not confuse Alliance level income sources with Player level income sources This has been mitigated to a degree with anoms, but is still common.
2; The change in the Data Core mechanism is huge, and will be a boon to FW pilots if/when it occurs. However keep in mind that any T2 producer that does any volume rarely obtains enough Data Cores from their research agents to fill their production needs even now. End result, the price of T2 vessels will rise slightly (also due to the increase in mineral and T1 hull costs) but not as much of a percentile increase as T1 hulls do, and FW will receive a big boost. Current Data Core farmers may indeed have to take a serious look at involving an alt in FW, which I personally view as a good thing
3: Asteroids spawning only at down time will be brought sharply into focus, and needs a serious fix. However, increased competition between miners is not necessarily a bad thing. EVE could use more wars started by industrial corporations to protect their interests from rivals. It was one of the main reasons for the war dec system in the first place, and is currently rarely used for this purpose. Rarely will you see a more entertaining battle than one waged between players that are primarily speced for more peaceful pursuits
4: The current cost of vessels (both T1 and T2) are cheap compared to past years.
Do you remember being on a 3 month waiting list to pay 3X or more than current costs to obtain a HAC? I do.
Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available).
Also keep in mind that the current insurance system was specifically designed to be easily adjusted to reflect actual ship cost periodically.
5: People who like to compare the profitability of mining high end ore vs low end ore need to take yield into consideration. Often mining Veldspar is a more profitable use of ones time, depending on how secure the area the high end ores are mined in. Also consider that if mining becomes a more important part of an alliances income there is also a higher probability it will become a juicier and easier to find target for roaming gangs. Perhaps high end ore will actually become the rare and valued holy grail of the miner that is was always meant to be.
6: Hulkageddon has had a minor impact on mineral production in the past, true. However consider that while the cost of the ships necessary to do mining may increase somewhat, when you scale that against the high income being constantly produced the miner still comes out far ahead of where he is currently
7: The debate of drone land bounties causing an ISK injection vs the current mineral injection boils down to how the bounties on drones work out vs the value of the minerals produced currently. If the bounties per drone are equal to or less than the value of their current alloy drops the injection of ISK will not be an issue, merely a boosting of an income poor en devour and a simplification and perhaps slight nerf of a currently lucrative one.
HAC isn't a Tier 1 ship. An apple also is not an orange.
Quote:Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available).
If you mean missions, missions have been nerfed and will be nerfed more. Manufacturing is impossible for a new player to do. Hauling competes with Freighters and Jump Freighters. With Freighter and Jump Freighter COMPANIES. Bounties are also bad. Mining was already the best thing for a new player to do by a stupid margin, this just makes it even worse. Punish new players hard.
It's all CARE BEARS deserve. |
Rara Yariza
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 17:50:00 -
[227] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
This |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1490
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 17:55:00 -
[228] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Just a few observations
1: Concerning the profitability of High Sec vs. Low Sec
There is a reason why most Null Sec players have an industry or mission runner alt in High Sec to fund themselves. Do not confuse Alliance level income sources with Player level income sources This has been mitigated to a degree with anoms, but is still common.
2; The change in the Data Core mechanism is huge, and will be a boon to FW pilots if/when it occurs. However keep in mind that any T2 producer that does any volume rarely obtains enough Data Cores from their research agents to fill their production needs even now. End result, the price of T2 vessels will rise slightly (also due to the increase in mineral and T1 hull costs) but not as much of a percentile increase as T1 hulls do, and FW will receive a big boost. Current Data Core farmers may indeed have to take a serious look at involving an alt in FW, which I personally view as a good thing
3: Asteroids spawning only at down time will be brought sharply into focus, and needs a serious fix. However, increased competition between miners is not necessarily a bad thing. EVE could use more wars started by industrial corporations to protect their interests from rivals. It was one of the main reasons for the war dec system in the first place, and is currently rarely used for this purpose. Rarely will you see a more entertaining battle than one waged between players that are primarily speced for more peaceful pursuits
4: The current cost of vessels (both T1 and T2) are cheap compared to past years.
Do you remember being on a 3 month waiting list to pay 3X or more than current costs to obtain a HAC? I do.
Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available).
Also keep in mind that the current insurance system was specifically designed to be easily adjusted to reflect actual ship cost periodically.
5: People who like to compare the profitability of mining high end ore vs low end ore need to take yield into consideration. Often mining Veldspar is a more profitable use of ones time, depending on how secure the area the high end ores are mined in. Also consider that if mining becomes a more important part of an alliances income there is also a higher probability it will become a juicier and easier to find target for roaming gangs. Perhaps high end ore will actually become the rare and valued holy grail of the miner that is was always meant to be.
6: Hulkageddon has had a minor impact on mineral production in the past, true. However consider that while the cost of the ships necessary to do mining may increase somewhat, when you scale that against the high income being constantly produced the miner still comes out far ahead of where he is currently
7: The debate of drone land bounties causing an ISK injection vs the current mineral injection boils down to how the bounties on drones work out vs the value of the minerals produced currently. If the bounties per drone are equal to or less than the value of their current alloy drops the injection of ISK will not be an issue, merely a boosting of an income poor en devour and a simplification and perhaps slight nerf of a currently lucrative one. HAC isn't a Tier 1 ship. An apple also is not an orange. Quote:Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available). If you mean missions, missions have been nerfed and will be nerfed more. Manufacturing is impossible for a new player to do. Hauling competes with Freighters and Jump Freighters. With Freighter and Jump Freighter COMPANIES. Bounties are also bad. Mining was already the best thing for a new player to do by a stupid margin, this just makes it even worse. Punish new players hard. It's all CARE BEARS deserve.
I was discussing the impact on the costs of ships in general, and the impact of higher priced ships on combat. I also pointed out the implications for new players/players that only fly T1.
Running missions is NOT combat, and percentages of ships lost during this activity is negligible compared to ships lost in combat. However, missions have needed this slight nerf for some time. Many mission runners don't collect their loot as it is... yet despite this a huge volume of minerals comes from this source.
Removing T1 loot drastically reduces the mineral supply, even if meta level mods (which refine for less minerals) replace them on a 1 to 1 ration. Hopefully this will not be done on a 1 to 1 ration, else there would not be a significant boost to T1 module production.
Manufacturing is far from impossible for new players, in fact that was how I (and many others) got started. The only thing that made it difficult was the lack of demand due to, wait for it, T1 module drops from rats and missions.
Hauling? Okay, I'll bite. You do realize that there are not that many sources of NPC goods on the market that will fill up a freighter right? Most are limited in supply before the price adjusts to become unprofitable. There will be just as much NPC goods hauling as their currently is, and none of these changes would impact courier missions in any way. Moot point.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1490
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 17:56:00 -
[229] - Quote
Oh, lest I forget:
You maintain that mining was the best option for new players before these changes (debatable when you look at PI among others, but I'll let it stand for the sake of the point), and yet you are maintaining that higher profitability makes the situation for them WORSE?
Seriously?
Wow.
I think new players will enjoy more of this type of punishment. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1490
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 18:02:00 -
[230] - Quote
Rara Yariza wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it. This
If your money making activities on a day to day basis are much more profitable, and do not involve frequent ship loss, you come out very far ahead.
The people that this will impact the most are PVP characters, and they don't seem to be too worried.
If you only have to replace a ship on an infrequent business, and every day you make a large amount more profit... you do the math.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
|
Alara IonStorm
1958
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 18:17:00 -
[231] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: The people that this will impact the most are PVP characters, and they don't seem to be too worried.
Because they all hang out in threads discussing the economy.
What portion of the population across all four sec status's did you sample to reach this conclusion.
How many of them have alternate farming accounts or buy plex?
I know I have been hurting since the price hike personally. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
141
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 18:34:00 -
[232] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Just a few observations
primarily speced for more peaceful pursuits
4: The current cost of vessels (both T1 and T2) are cheap compared to past years.
Do you remember being on a 3 month waiting list to pay 3X or more than current costs to obtain a HAC? I do.
Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available).
. HAC isn't a Tier 1 ship. An apple also is not an orange. Quote:Higher costs of combat vessels in the past did little (if anything) to dissuade combat, it merely had an effect on fleet composition. Lets face it, if prices double on a cheap T1 frigate or cruiser they are still easily affordable even by new players (who now have significantly improved income sources available). If you mean missions, missions have been nerfed and will be nerfed more. Manufacturing is impossible for a new player to do. Hauling competes with Freighters and Jump Freighters. With Freighter and Jump Freighter COMPANIES. Bounties are also bad. Mining was already the best thing for a new player to do by a stupid margin, this just makes it even worse. Punish new players hard. It's all CARE BEARS deserve.
-HAC is a Tech 2 ship I don't get what you are talking about he was comparing the tech 1 & tech 2 cost differences has shrunk recently.
- I think I get what you are saying about mining... it sucks & is boring! CCP says they are going to fix that in the future but they are now setting up a system which is almost forcing newbies to do boring mining from the get go to afford newships. This may seem ok to vets ( having noobs to the grunge work for them ) but I don't think its good in the long run becuase of more turnover with new subscibers whom rightfully see mining as exciting as watching paint dry & now have to do more of it to get a ship that has double or tripled in price.
Ranger 1 wrote:Oh, lest I forget: You maintain that mining was the best option for new players before these changes (debatable when you look at PI among others, but I'll let it stand for the sake of the point), and yet you are maintaining that higher profitability makes the situation for them WORSE? Seriously? Wow. I think new players will enjoy more of this type of punishment.
Oh yes we all know how much every new player enjoys mining CCP has made mining more important w/o fixing mining at least with drone alloy mining you had some fun going pew pew. What I REALLY find hilarious is that now that CCP has made mining so much more important peeps are countering by starting Hulkageddon. Jita's buning is also liable to cuase a huge demand for ships too as ship destruction is a Mineral sink not a ISK sink ( like many still believe ) The destruction of a mineral faucet with the promise of a new mineral faucet ( ring mining ) way out in the future seems to be a mistake IMHO An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1491
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 18:54:00 -
[233] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: The people that this will impact the most are PVP characters, and they don't seem to be too worried.
Because they all hang out in threads discussing the economy. What portion of the population across all four sec status's did you sample to reach this conclusion. How many of them have alternate farming accounts or buy plex? I know I have been hurting since the price hike personally.
It wasn't an attack Alara, just an observation. Often we are in complete agreement, other times not.
As I pointed out a large number of people that engage in PVP regularly fund those characters with an industry or mission runner alt... so they do indeed have a vested interest in this, and potentially stand to be affected by the higher prices far more than those that rarely lose ships. I believe the reason we haven't heard more of an outcry from that segment of the EVE population is that most realize that the frequency of combat is not likely to be affected (partially due to increased income levels), however fleet composition quite possibly will.
Interestingly, we may see an increase in the number of T2 ships used in combat, as proportionally their cost will not rise as much as many T1 ships (due to the entire cost of a T1 ship being based on the cost of minerals, while in T2 ship production a large part of their production costs are from other materials.
Market manipulation in the short term will make life uncomfortable for some (I'm sorry it has made things tight for you) but as we have seen in the past it takes awhile for the economy to adjust (especially from early, wild speculation and market manipulation), but I wouldn't worry too much about long term effects.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1491
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 19:04:00 -
[234] - Quote
Quote:Oh yes we all know how much every new player enjoys mining Roll CCP has made mining more important w/o fixing mining at least with drone alloy mining you had some fun going pew pew. What I REALLY find hilarious is that now that CCP has made mining so much more important peeps are countering by starting Hulkageddon. Jita's buning is also liable to cuase a huge demand for ships too as ship destruction is a Mineral sink not a ISK sink ( like many still believe ) The destruction of a mineral faucet with the promise of a new mineral faucet ( ring mining ) way out in the future seems to be a mistake IMHO
Mining as a profession could definitely use some work, although even in its current state many folks seem to find it relaxing. I personally support allowing mining in it's current form to exist while introducing a more "advanced and interactive" form to be introduced that would be more engaging... thus keeping both types of miners happy.
Consider though that even for a new player, the ones who are mainly going to be purchasing frigates, destroyers and cruisers, that even a 2X price increase is still easily affordable to them with the income streams (other than mining) that are currently available to them.
Even a very small time PI operation will fund these ships in a matter of a few days.
New mission runners often don't even collect their loot after the first few days as they view getting the bounties from rapidly completing the missions to be more lucrative than spending the time looting.
Now I can see people that make all or part of their income from looting others wrecks will be affected. However to what extent will depend on the value and numbers of the meta level modules that are dropped after the change. When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 21:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
With these changes, I can see the casual player eventually throwing in the towel because when it becomes work in a game, they would rather do other pursuits in real life. Personally, I have a friend that does some casual research and planetary interaction in high sec space. The change in taxes have been stressing her to stay with the game. A complete change of data cores to a combat reward will force her to leave. She has no interest in hard core player versus player combat even though she knew that was what the game was based upon. |
baltec1
1064
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 21:08:00 -
[236] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Manufacturing is impossible for a new player to do.
Wrong. |
Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 21:08:00 -
[237] - Quote
So Eve becomes yet more challenging.
Oh wait - no, it reverts to being the challenging game it was a few years ago.
Eve is
Well. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
219
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 21:13:00 -
[238] - Quote
Chaos is good in eve... also a lot of people will be able to turn a huge profit off this change, all meta 0 items will proberly rise in cost a little, making them worth more to produce and so on... mining will become worth more, so you actually get higher "isk hour" from doing it = you could do it less and have more time for pvp, or do it more and earn even more (without actually inflating the economy because mining adds assets, not direct isk)... |
Kiamerin
Creep Factory Interspacial Dynasty
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 23:26:00 -
[239] - Quote
... So are we bitching about the devaluing of ISK? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
174
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 23:55:00 -
[240] - Quote
Ok I will admit I am a little confused. It seems to me that they are changing loot drops to not drop meta 0 stuff anymore. Shouldn't that mean mission runners will have a greater chance for good meta 1-4 items as as a result?
I mean when I have run missions I pretty much reprocessed meta 0-2 stuff without thinking twice. And most meta 3 items did better being reprocessed as well.
So maybe I will get more meta 1 loot, which will just be reprocessed anyhow. How is this wildly different?
|
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
646
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 23:59:00 -
[241] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Ok I will admit I am a little confused. It seems to me that they are changing loot drops to not drop meta 0 stuff anymore. Shouldn't that mean mission runners will have a greater chance for good meta 1-4 items as as a result?
I mean when I have run missions I pretty much reprocessed meta 0-2 stuff without thinking twice. And most meta 3 items did better being reprocessed as well.
So maybe I will get more meta 1 loot, which will just be reprocessed anyhow. How is this wildly different?
Its not, people just like to whine. |
Danfen Fenix
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 00:00:00 -
[242] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Ok I will admit I am a little confused. It seems to me that they are changing loot drops to not drop meta 0 stuff anymore. Shouldn't that mean mission runners will have a greater chance for good meta 1-4 items as as a result?
I mean when I have run missions I pretty much reprocessed meta 0-2 stuff without thinking twice. And most meta 3 items did better being reprocessed as well.
So maybe I will get more meta 1 loot, which will just be reprocessed anyhow. How is this wildly different?
Meta 0 mods provide the highest amount of reproccessed minerals, and an increase in the amount of Meta 1+ mods will decrease the value of those as well
So essentially a less isk to be earned |
Zircon Dasher
138
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 00:04:00 -
[243] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: Many mission runners don't collect their loot as it is... yet despite this a huge volume of minerals comes from this source.
Removing T1 loot drastically reduces the mineral supply, even if meta level mods (which refine for less minerals) replace them on a 1 to 1 ration. Hopefully this will not be done on a 1 to 1 ration, else there would not be a significant boost to T1 module production.
Source?
Quote:Manufacturing is far from impossible for new players, in fact that was how I (and many others) got started. The only thing that made it difficult was the lack of demand due to, wait for it, T1 module drops from rats and missions.
lol. If anything, over the past 5 years, usage of T1 modules has increased while NPC supply has been significantly reduced. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:02:00 -
[244] - Quote
Was wondering why so many people were stockpiling/buying cheap T0 fittings.
I'm such a dunce.
Thanks to those who posted a link to the Escalation features! |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
161
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 01:52:00 -
[245] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote: Source? Also you realize that most T1 module production never hits the markets as those modules right?
lol. If anything, over the past 5 years, usage of T1 modules has increased while NPC supply has been significantly reduced.
not to troll but Ill hold you to your own example.
Source?
Id like to see the graphs for it. Im a budding indy
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
ugh zug
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 02:39:00 -
[246] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=PNcDI_uBGUo Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 03:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=PNcDI_uBGUo
Sir! The radar sir! It appears to be...jammed! |
Zircon Dasher
139
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 04:05:00 -
[248] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote: not to troll but Ill hold you to your own example.
Source?
Id like to see the graphs for it. Im a budding indy
Since you are a budding indy you really need to start doing your own analytics. Never trust "public" versions 100%:
First read http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/226951/page/3 Then read http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=822 And also read http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235 while considering std. fitting paradigms that might require meta 0 modules. For a longer trend you can also read http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Quarterly_Economic_Newsletter
Now go forth and spreadsheet to your hearts content.
EDITs: Parsing errors are fun |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1393
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 05:33:00 -
[249] - Quote
PvPers moaning about inflation, industry, drops and mission running.
My god Jim.. CCPs done it. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
141
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 10:11:00 -
[250] - Quote
Jon Taggart wrote:Was wondering why so many people were stockpiling/buying cheap T0 fittings.
I'm such a dunce.
Thanks to those who posted a link to the Escalation features!
Past week those with good refining skills are geniuses to buy T1 ships now & recycle them after the 24th for profits!!!! An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 11:53:00 -
[251] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote: Slow down the process. Change things slowly, iteratively. Not all at once.
In the last year Tier 2 Battlecruisers have gone from 26 million to 47 million, Battleships are up to at Tier 1, 45mil > 85mil, Tier 2, 75mil > 135mil and Tier 3, 110 > 210mil. Across the board prices are still rising and while that is fine for power players that leaves casuals and people without 3 accounts playing a much more difficult game of second job online then was previously coined for EVE. I think it is about time they fixed the economy now before people who don't have 6 hours a day to grind up and leave because all the awesome new Ships CCP is releasing have to be flown with kids gloves because there goes halve your bank if you risk it.
Malcanis law, always Malcanis law. This is THE biggest problem of Eve and will ever be.
Now CCP can shake it up to the right, to the left up and down, Malcanis law will always prevail. Now if this is a decision to openly limit the number of people playing the game because they have far too much clients, fair enough. The idea around mining is excellent, it's how it's thrown live soon that worries me, but well, not for long. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
319
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:12:00 -
[252] - Quote
what economy, there is no economy. there is only a appearance of a economie where ccp still controls the base stats and this making you think there is a economie. its like the usa. if something is bad they simply stealth nerf it. or as in usa make things dissapear CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
319
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:14:00 -
[253] - Quote
ps: why arguing over expensive 200 mil bs' just run some incursions for 1,5 hours and you got it back... CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
565
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:35:00 -
[254] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:what economy, there is no economy. there is only a appearance of a economie where ccp still controls the base stats and this making you think there is a economie. its like the usa. if something is bad they simply stealth nerf it. or as in usa make things dissapear
Please send me all of your ISK since it is apparently of no value. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:41:00 -
[255] - Quote
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:ps: why arguing over expensive 200 mil bs' just run some incursions for 1,5 hours and you got it back...
Yes explain us all how you play incursions for 1.5h and get 200M, I'm sure all players around would like to read you. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
985
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 12:52:00 -
[256] - Quote
Europeen Central Bank accepted a 250 billion euros loan to Italian banks to help them face the current economical crisis. -yes because it's important to help those bankers that made your 21st century life hell on earth, right?
For the meanwhile:
American official financials announced last Friday holding 3 important financial Boss salary now for the second year because those benefit from government help to face world economic crisis, but those haven't reimbursed yet that financial help while making billions of profits.
AS you can see there are far more interesting things going around in the world, like for instance, note that whatever the country is bankers act the exact same way. Gillotine time |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
971
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 13:08:00 -
[257] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Confirming that the next several months are going to be awesome.
God yes. quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1495
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 14:20:00 -
[258] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Ranger 1 wrote: Many mission runners don't collect their loot as it is... yet despite this a huge volume of minerals comes from this source.
Removing T1 loot drastically reduces the mineral supply, even if meta level mods (which refine for less minerals) replace them on a 1 to 1 ration. Hopefully this will not be done on a 1 to 1 ration, else there would not be a significant boost to T1 module production. Source? Also you realize that most T1 module production never hits the markets as those modules right? Quote:Manufacturing is far from impossible for new players, in fact that was how I (and many others) got started. The only thing that made it difficult was the lack of demand due to, wait for it, T1 module drops from rats and missions.
lol. If anything, over the past 5 years, usage of T1 modules has increased while NPC supply has been significantly reduced.
How do you think the cottage industry of collecting other peoples loot got started?
I do invention and am well aware many T1 modules are used for that purpose, this is a good thing. On a related note, you do realize you can use higher Meta level modules in invention as well right?
I will agree that more T1 modules are used now than previously (and will point out that when I started out in industry it was considerably longer ago than 5 years), and that NPC supply has been decreased. This was a good trend that I am quite happy to see taken to its logical conclusion (eliminating meta 0 drops entirely).
What was your point again? When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
146
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Posted - 2012.04.12 03:46:00 -
[259] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Confirming that the next several months are going to be awesome. God yes.
So Amzi from what you've heard so far... will features be working as intended Gotta luv the announced HQ & Assault changes, huh An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta the Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's-á crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'-á |
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