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Derek Medrana
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.11.10 01:34:00 -
[1]
Here's the link: Fanfest mac/linux info
Figured you guys would wanna know as well!
Sevarus
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.10 04:22:00 -
[2]
Thank you very very much.
The current Mac build on SiSi (client 69302 on cider 1938) is much better than what we currently have on TQ. But unfortunately I do not have an ATI card, so I cannot confirm anything about the in-station rendering bug.
Of course the F11 maps and the minimaps in the mission descriptions are still fubar, and I suspect the same is for the explosion/environment textures that are sometimes garbage (I have not seen those yet, but I've played on this last patch for only a few hours and that bug is not something I see too frequently). We know, however, that they seem to blame this problems onto Apple, so I didn't really hope for any improvement in that area.
There's still at least a bug (I reported it) and I could not test the autoupdates (they failed, see my other thread). But the client seems to be stable: played 3 hours in windowed mode with no crash, and had been switching to other windows (and even other spaces) multiple times. Still no crash.
One think I would really hope is to have a SiSi (or Multi) deployment of the new cider client they are developing. The one that supposedly handles premium. Actually, if it's just cider, they could even let us test it directly on TQ. It should be tested for *both* classic and premium and on both Linux and Os X for at least a little while, before trying to deploy it officially.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.11.10 05:58:00 -
[3]
Thank you guys for the info, looks promising.
But I shake my fist at CCP. Dudes, that kind of information is just what we all begged for over the past 10 months. I really cannot understand why you could not have given us updates on the state of the client while you're at it.
I'm pretty sure we could have copped with it, the ups & downs, better then the none, total absence in, communication about the status of the client.
With all the respect, but this is really something CCP could hugely improve upon.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
Clear Skies - an EVE vid with a difference.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.10 08:01:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 10/11/2008 08:02:19 Yup. They got angry leaving customers instead of perhaps understanding customers (disappointed though). I've said it before and will say it again. Lock the PR into a basement with angry weasels (that is...if there is a PR)
Guess what the most disturbing thing is... we heard it FROM TRANSGAMING! AND BECAUSE A FAN/PLAYERS ASKED THEM! WTF CCP?!
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens
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Posted - 2008.11.10 08:24:00 -
[5]
Well, I was at the roundtable where they explained all this, but I agree it's horrid from a marketing and support standpoint.
I might add that Apple doesn't support Tiger anymore, so all graphic updates will be done in Leopard, so if you have driver based graphic issues and are running Tiger, you're screwed :(
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.10 09:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries I might add that Apple doesn't support Tiger anymore, so all graphic updates will be done in Leopard, so if you have driver based graphic issues and are running Tiger, you're screwed :(
There's a known issue with EvE that they blame on a known bug in Apple code. Not sure if it's usermode (graphic library) or kernel (driver) code that is bugged. They say Apple acknowledged it to be a bug.
If that's what you are referring to, it is not Tiger specific: it is also present in Leopard. The current feeling is that Apple will not address that specific problem until, at least, Snow Leopard (low priority problem). On the other hand it seems that CCP/cedega are not willing to code a workaround. At least not in the current line of clients. It may be they will address it in the new generation client you have been reporting.
Another issue that has recently surfaced was ATI cards related. It also manifested as a graphic problem (station environment not rendering properly). AFAIK it has been already resolved (see QR patch notes).
As for those that still use Tiger ... unless you are on an old PowerPC machine, there's really no reason not to upgrade to Leopard. Os X life cycle is somewhere between 18-24 months and Leopard has been out for 12 already. Software development under Leopard is an order of magnitude easier than it was under Tiger. Any new software that will come to the market from now on will most probably be Leopard only, unless it's a limited upgrade of an existing application. I expect major OS X softwares to switch to a Leopard only support within the next 2 or 3 years anyway.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.10 10:48:00 -
[7]
Well not everyone has a reason to change to leopard. I have both, but basically I have no need for leopard and on my desktop machine.
Money is always money and paying it because "others" aren't willing to code a fix....
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Well not everyone has a reason to change to leopard. I have both, but basically I have no need for leopard and on my desktop machine.
Money is always money and paying it because "others" aren't willing to code a fix....
Code like the cedega layer is a special case. But other kinds of applications, especially brand new applications, will probably be developed as Leopard only, from now on.
Take something like an EveMon for mac for example. If you are new to Cocoa and objective C it will take 5 to 6 times more time (and still be more error prone) to do it for Tiger and Leopard than to do it for Leopard only. And even if you are already an experienced Os X developer it probably would still take 2 or 3 times more.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers -- Sheriff Jones
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:31:00 -
[9]
I must say that I do believe that upcoming programs will still have support of Tiger. Why? Because not many firms jump on the first new OS release. How it's supported is a another matter.
Games are another matter though, but I only play eve and the rest is work only.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.11.10 14:23:00 -
[10]
Welcome to the world of Macs, Dr Sheepbringer. When Steve says upgrade, you will hand over the credit card. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.10 17:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer I must say that I do believe that upcoming programs will still have support of Tiger. Why? Because not many firms jump on the first new OS release. How it's supported is a another matter.
Games are another matter though, but I only play eve and the rest is work only.
The Apple software echo system is somewhat different than the Windows one.
Most of the APIs that you had for Win95 are still valid in Vista. Not so for Os X. In 2001 Apple introduced Os X and in 2002 they announced the death of Os 9. Anything done for OS 9 would never run on any mac with intel (sold beginning 2006). Not only that: the most commonly used APIs that were available in the original Os X 10.0 release are now fading out too. Some things cannot be done any more using those APIs under Leopard.
Take Adobe. They thought they could keep using the same set of APIs. They were wrong. They are now rewriting a big chunk of their softwares to use the new APIs. The same is for Microsoft: it took them a long time to digest it, but they are now switching everything to Cocoa. Apple itself is still in the process of recoding all his applications.
But there's another point to it. The Cocoa API set, by itself, works on Tiger. However if you limit your support to Leopard only you gain access to a hugely simplified way to write code that potentially can buy you 3x to 5x better productivity and much less memory management overhead (some of the memory leaks in the current cider, for example, are due to errors in memory management that would simply not be possible if the client was Leopard only).
Those that have a huge code base developed in Cocoa and have the required know how, will probably still support Tiger for a while. Those that are starting now, those that have a code base in Carbon (they need to recode it from scratch, therefore they are basically restarting too) and those that have a Cocoa code base that requires a significant overhaul, will most probably just go Leopard only.
Not only that: Snow Leopard is going to introduce yet another set of low level APIs specifically designed for hi performance multithreading and GPU based computing. If I were to start developing a native Mac based game/game client today, I would make it require Snow Leopard.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers -- Sheriff Jones
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.10 20:15:00 -
[12]
OSX has never asked me for any sort of validation or serial or performed any sort of Windows 'WGA' style intrusive verification or registration during or after installation. Nor have I ever needed to pay for OSX unless it came with the system (though I have, just for the heck of it). Just a thought.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.11.12 03:21:00 -
[13]
Apple said from the start that Carbon was supposed to be a transition API, that's why they didn't make it 64bit and now Adobe, et.al need to rewrite their code.
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