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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:04:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
Genuine evidence that it was probably due to a failure to autodock. \o/
But, with ten minutes to do something about it in which you did nothing, nobody will care even if this is a bug. /o/ -
DesuSigs |

Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 23:05:48
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Crumplecorn You thought you did, came to us, found out you didn't
Found out a certain part of the community thinks I didn't.
Actually the answers were unanimous I think. Which is, like, unheard of.
People around here, even the ones which start off with nice, friendly, detailed answers will degrade down into insults if you ignore what they say long enough.
I'm really amazed by your inhability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question". ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility.
Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
It would be possible for someone to bump you while you're approaching the station, and continue bumping you until your dock command times out. They may not have to bump you more than once. They may not even have to bump you at all, because commands can time out for other reasons independent of interactions with other characters!
Could this have happened to you? Well, it's still hard to say with the information that you've given. Unfortunately, I doubt you'll be able to answer because you were AFK in space. |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I'm really amazed by your inability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question".
When you have to be told the same thing over and over again, it is filed under 'ignore'.
The answer you finally accepted just now was that you can't prove that you should have docked. Yet you were already told multiple times that the burden of proof is on you. -
DesuSigs |

Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord I'm really amazed by your inability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question".
When you have to be told the same thing over and over again, it is filed under 'ignore'.
The answer you finally accepted just now was that you can't prove that you should have docked. Yet you were already told multiple times that the burden of proof is on you.
Yet I answered to all those posts that the burden of proof might be on the logs, and this girl was the first to kindly point me to the fact that logs (or gms) can't check that.
Read through it all and notice nobody did before.
Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning. ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility.
Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
It would be possible for someone to bump you while you're approaching the station, and continue bumping you until your dock command times out. They may not have to bump you more than once. They may not even have to bump you at all, because commands can time out for other reasons independent of interactions with other characters!
Could this have happened to you? Well, it's still hard to say with the information that you've given. Unfortunately, I doubt you'll be able to answer because you were AFK in space.
Okay. Now you caught me. That's a thing that really could happen. All the game mechanics that is based on are real and I know them. Since I can't prove that didn't happen to the GM, I lose.
See? It was not that hard. ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning.
What do you mean knowing that? You were told that this was intended behaviour before, and various other things, and you demanded that a GM tell you, because everything on the forum is hearsay. But now you accept one person's word as authoritative on what the logs do or do not contain? -
DesuSigs |

Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning.
What do you mean knowing that? You were told that this was intended behaviour before, and various other things, and you demanded that a GM tell you, because everything on the forum is hearsay. But now you accept one person's word as authoritative on what the logs do or do not contain?
Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her. ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread. -
DesuSigs |

Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Now you caught me.
I'll still dispute that I caught you "Now" (referring to the post that you quoted), because I had already brought up the exact same scenario in different words about three times. Thank you, however, for listening. |
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:19:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread.
I did it from every bit of information to gave me. However, this girl's was the only one that gave me results. That's what I call constructive. ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:21:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 23:21:25
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord Now you caught me.
I'll still dispute that I caught you "Now" (referring to the post that you quoted), because I had already brought up the exact same scenario in different words about three times. Thank you, however, for listening.
Please stop the demagogy crap. The closest to that scenario you posted was this
Originally by: Tombozo
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
(you see, I listen and remember)
It doesn't say the word "bump" anywhere: I didn't imagine bumping could be part of that strategy. When you pointed it out, THEN I understood. ---<---@ JackFalcord |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:22:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread.
I did it from every bit of information to gave me. However, this girl's was the only one that gave me results. That's what I call constructive.
Mmm hmm. OTOH, maybe you argued incessantly while you thought you were right, then agreed with first person who you had not already contradicted after realising you were wrong. -
DesuSigs |

Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:23:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Soo I was just zipping around Amamake and when I felt like leaving, I did the usual "dock", watched warp initiation and minimized.
That's where you went wrong tbh.
I always wait for Aura to say 'Docking Request Accepted' before I minimize. And really, if you can't wait that long, well, lesson learnt for you. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 23:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Please stop the demagogy crap. The closest to that scenario you posted was this
Originally by: Tombozo
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
(you see, I listen and remember)
It doesn't say the word "bump" anywhere: I didn't imagine bumping could be part of that strategy. When you pointed it out, THEN I understood.
Pedantism to the rescue, eh? Unfortunately, the scenario you say this doesn't match says this:
Originally by: Tombozo They may not even have to bump you at all
so they do match. -
DesuSigs |

McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.14 00:35:00 -
[76]
three pages of crap... oh well now u know.
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NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:12:00 -
[77]
Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser. ------------------------------------
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:27:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/11/2008 01:29:10
Originally by: Rhys Onasi Edited by: Rhys Onasi on 13/11/2008 21:14:56 It's not a QR bug.
I've had that issue for months.
Never assume you are going to dock at the end of a warp...
EDIT: Not that I am saying this isn't a bug, it's just not from QR.
This.
The issue isnt really someone bumping you off or anything, its just that at times the ship just will not dock, but will just warp there and sit. Until you tell it to dock yet again.
I've had this a number of times, which is why I just watch the screen until i'm sure im docked.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
I dunno. I suspected a masterful troll, but a troll that good would have been able to keep going after the logs bit. He intentionally pulled out, which suggests a real poster trying to retreat from a failed argument. But then, maybe that's part of the troll too, to look more like a real poster.
/tinfoil -
DesuSigs |

Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:41:00 -
[80]
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
Uh what?
@Falc; As Tomobozo explained the exit from warp isn't always exactly the same place so it can happen you land just outside of the docking zone having to fly a bit before docking. They could have nicked you there, in that case you won't get reimbursed.
Also, the dock command not docking you happens a lot, I tend to spam my docking command a few times (when in docking range) just to be sure and I never assume I'll autodock after warp. Not autodocking does happen and has been happening for ages, that's just how it is. But that doesn't neccesarily means it's an accepted feature.
However, since you gave a compounded command (warp+dock) and it did the first part you ought to be safe to assume it will also execute the second part as it cannot be that it somehow did get the warp part of the command but not the docking one, so if you did not land outside the docking zone and didn't autodock within a few seconds you might have a case. Regardless of the "lol you went afk in low-sec" e-thug replies.
Thing is, I'm assuming that the docking command after the warp is a client thing (hence the failures sometimes) and thus there properably was a communications hickup and the "logs will show nothing".
On the other hand I've heard more stories on how weapon grouping messes up things atm. personally I'm staying far away form it /strokes his 1st series G15.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:44:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
I dunno. I suspected a masterful troll, but a troll that good would have been able to keep going after the logs bit. He intentionally pulled out, which suggests a real poster trying to retreat from a failed argument. But then, maybe that's part of the troll too, to look more like a real poster.
/tinfoil
Nah, I know him. He doesn't troll and he's not one of those whiney 'point elsewhere' people. Haven't spoken to him ingame about this yet but there's a few people you know that if they say/state something they tell you (their) truth.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
However, since you gave a compounded command (warp+dock) and it did the first part you ought to be safe to assume it will also execute the second part as it cannot be that it somehow did get the warp part of the command but not the docking one, so if you did not land outside the docking zone and didn't autodock within a few seconds you might have a case. Regardless of the "lol you went afk in low-sec" e-thug replies.
Well, I've had it happen to me personally a few times, with me being in docking zone. I just spam dock and stand there until I see my ship safely docked. Sucks but meh.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Nah, I know him. He doesn't troll and he's not one of those whiney 'point elsewhere' people. Haven't spoken to him ingame about this yet but there's a few people you know that if they say/state something they tell you (their) truth.
Ah, my paranoia is subsiding. Thank you. -
DesuSigs |

Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:19:00 -
[84]
The hard facts are three.
1: Docking range is 1,500 meters. 2: Assuming warp from a dead stop, you will land less than 2,500 from your target. 3: 2,500 meters is the maximum deviation for a warp-to-zero command.
Based upon the above, you have greater than 60% chance of warping within docking range. Given that, you'd need 10 seconds at the most with a battleship to reach docking range if you landed outside docking range.
However, it is known that the vast majority of dock requests from warp are ignored. It is definitely a bug, and definitely not intended. I find myself more often than not clicking three times to dock. And in LoSec, I am more afraid of a station camp when I am docking than when I am undocking.
I believe the problem lies with client/server lag. The client sends a dock request, but according to the server, you are still in warp so it throws an exception. Either way, the logs will definitely show a docking request... if they're logged. If it were logged, and up to me, I'd give you your ship back as a first time occasion. But I'm not a GM, so I can't help you.
Anyway, you must be careful in the future. I almost lost a cerb to this bug, and I was not happy about it. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf. |

Nalar Marnith
Minmatar SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:30:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 14/11/2008 03:33:36 I've hit dock many times and my ship has just been sitting there outside the station. Once I did the same as you and my shield extended stabber got taken to armour in the time it took me to switch back to eve (was checking some info on the intarwebs). If I'd lost the ship/pod it would have been my fault.
Going AFK in lowsec without ensuring your ship is safe is at best russian roulette. I understand it sucks, but you'll have to take this one on the chin and be thankful you didn't have a head full of +5s.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:56:00 -
[86]
The OP keeps saying 'intended mechanic' as if it is some sort of mantra. This does not conform to known reality.
Known reality is that sometimes the dock command doesn't take hold. You can complain all day that it is not an 'intended mechanic' that sometimes you don't successfully dock. But that won't change the reality of the game.
The brutal reality is that pilots in Eve have to ensure they successfully docked if they're in dangerous areas. Doesn't matter what you thought was intended... or even what those who made this game actually intended.
We deal with the actual mechanics we have before us. Not intentions.
That being said: Petition it. It's CCP's call, and you never know. And next time you visit Amamake, make sure you see hangar before going AFK. 
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Amateratsu
Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:15:00 -
[87]
The warp to dock bug is not new, its been around for some time and is listed in the known issues page so is aknoledged as a known bug by the devs.
Providing you get a GM who is aware of the bug, there is a good chance you will be reinbursed as long as there was no other players interfering with your dock the moment your arived at the station.
Only the GM will be able to tell if your faliur to dock was due to the bug or to other players bumping you off the station.
P.S ALWAYS make sure you have docked before you go afk or log off
Good luck with your petition.
á
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:33:00 -
[88]
Look at it this way, your arguement could be followed the same as someone who hit "Dock" and before ensuring they entered warp, left the computer to idle a while. Little to his knowlege an NPC group spawns nearby and scrams you while chewing you down. By the time you come back some player has podded you.
You left eve while undocked on the assumption you were going to make it back to station safely. Someone could have easily bumped you off the station before you got within actual docking range, how are you sure it was a bug if you were not watching 
Oh and CCP have stated, WTZ on stations is never fully guarentee'd to bring you within docking range, so don't say that part isnt working as intended when CCP have stated it Is.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Allen Ramses The hard facts are three.
1: Docking range is 1,500 meters.
Actually Its more like 750 or 800 IIRC.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:57:00 -
[90]
I hope he hasn't canceled his petition. His responses to the various assertions in this thread are so pedantic I frankly can't wait to hear what he thinks of the GM response.
"Our logs show nothing; petition denied"
You gonna start arguing burden of proof with the GMs too, Captain Failcord?
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