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Cibo Seidensha
Amarr Tres Viri Guard Tres Viri
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:31:00 -
[1]
In the past week or two, the prices for Tracking Disruptor II in Amarr went from around 700k to almost 3M ISK.
Does this have something to do with high demand due to QR changes, did they get that much better? Or is every industrialist in EvE just busy building Orcas?
I like to fly unrigged Arbitrators for high risk (suicide) gang OPs, but am never sure if I should fit TDs or just go with web and point. Its hard to determine in battle, if your TDs are having any effect at all, especially when the targeted ship isnt aiming at you...
How would you rate TDs in the new QR environment?
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Murkon Salesgirl
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:37:00 -
[2]
TDs are helpful. Especially given the large increase in pulse laser usage on the field.
It's the great equalizer, makes medium range weapons short range.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:39:00 -
[3]
Ive bought them up i fit all my mids with these ,so the turret ***s will know the pain of missile users. |
Akyla
Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Akyla on 18/11/2008 11:44:07 Well they haven't become better stat-wise, it's just that TD's are now more useful.
Previously, getting webbed meant no amount of TD's was going to save you. It no longer does.
I've also been looking at the Arbitrator for that reason. Fitting a TD is a good option now, especially against larger targets.
Take a look at the Curse though... with 2 TD's on it, that ship is really scary. Like it wasn't already before... Also, the TD's will keep your drones safe. (Except vs missiles or other drones, obviously.)
How I would rate the TD in QR? Let's just say I'm currently training Weapons Disruption IV.
EDIT: I'm talking about TRACKING DISRUPTION here btw, because tracking is suddenly much more important. Obviously disrupting weapon range is also good, but it hasn't seen any major improvement. |
Terraform
Gallente Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Ive bought them up i fit all my mids with these ,so the turret ***s will know the pain of missile users.
I hereby award you the whining missile-user award.
ALL of your posts since the missile-nerf has been one big whinefest, and i congratulate you for accomplishing what so many whiners before you could not.
I bow down to your whinage and beg you to recieve my offering of this 3 gallon bottle of Wash&Go: No tears.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.18 11:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Terraform
Originally by: Naomi Knight Ive bought them up i fit all my mids with these ,so the turret ***s will know the pain of missile users.
I hereby award you the whining missile-user award.
ALL of your posts since the missile-nerf has been one big whinefest, and i congratulate you for accomplishing what so many whiners before you could not.
I bow down to your whinage and beg you to recieve my offering of this 3 gallon bottle of Wash&Go: No tears.
The really funny thing is that he's wrong - missiles have, overall and in general, been boosted.
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Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.11.18 12:40:00 -
[7]
Tracking Disruptors are great fun to use, I have a 5 ship Crucifier Squadron (Storm 1-5) that I'll be refitting to AB's from MWD's to take advantage of the sig tank.
Tracking wasn't that big of an issue before QR, now that it is at the forefront of gunnery combat, expect a increased number of Tracking Disruptors to be seen in the field, both on and off bonused ships.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.18 12:47:00 -
[8]
TDs were always great, it's just that hardly anyone bothered to notice.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 12:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Malcanis TDs were always great, it's just that hardly anyone bothered to notice.
This. Their effect isn't too obvious, but by Jove, it's strong. -- Gradient forum |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 12:56:00 -
[10]
I've always been a fan of the tracking disruptor, and I've never quite understood why so many people waste their PvP Curse and Arbitrator mid-slots with shield tanks.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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The Tzar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:03:00 -
[11]
Please don't say that TD's are good.
For the next 4 months we'll see nerf it threads followed by a 'balancing'.
Do TD's effect continue whilst cloaked as ECM does? __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Terraform
Gallente Recreation Of The World
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:04:00 -
[12]
I once shut down an abbadon pre-patch using an inquisitor(the amarr frigate with TD bonus).
He could not hit me, hit anyone else and all it took was 2 TDs, an AB that allowed me flying more than 700 m/s and a 24k frigate.
This was in Red vs. Blue tho, so not sure if it was valid, but damn it was fun.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:20:00 -
[13]
Is this discussion about bonused TDs only or would you say TDs are also useful on ships without bonus? Let's say a Gallente blaster HAC, BC or AS...
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Mikael Mechka
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mikael Mechka on 18/11/2008 13:26:13
Originally by: The Tzar Please don't say that TD's are good.
For the next 4 months we'll see nerf it threads followed by a 'balancing'.
Do TD's effect continue whilst cloaked as ECM does?
Tracking Disruptors are nowhere near as powerful as ECM. It probably lasts for the full duration like ECM, but the length is only 10sec as opposed to 20 with ECM. Not only that, but the counters to TD's are much more viable than ECM.
Missiles are completely unaffected by them, as are drones unless specifically targeted. Tracking computers with range scripts by sniper ships being TD'd can change those for speed scripts to try and off-set the penalties of the TD, or vice versa. Ships can still remote rep, order their drones to attack a target, use ewar on another ship, use nos/neuts, everything a ship hit with ECM can't do.
Also, Tracking Disruptors have to be closer to the fray than an ECM ship to be effective, meaning a lot more people will be within shooting distance of said fragile Ewar ship. And even if it TD's a ship that is targeting it, it can't cloak (cause it doesn't break the lock), meaning it has no other choice but to try to warp away or get trashed by the target's mates.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.18 13:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Denuo Secus Is this discussion about bonused TDs only or would you say TDs are also useful on ships without bonus? Let's say a Gallente blaster HAC, BC or AS...
They're still pretty effective, particularly if you're using them in a given situation. For example, using one with range disruption on an interceptor is really useful if you're tackling a Minmatar or Amarr BC/cruiser. With Barrage or Scorch respectively these ships can fairly comfortably hit out to 20km, enough to force you to disengage quite quickly. With a single unbonused disruptor on them (with range script), they won't even be able to scratch your paintwork at those ranges.
Tracking disruption will work in the same way though obviously it's not as easy to point out specific situations as it is with the range disruption. However, reducing your enemy's turret tracking by 35-50% is definitely going to be significant in a lot of cases. It will give you an extra safety net against ships of a larger class, but perhaps more significantly it will really give you an edge against ships that are otherwise similar to yours - with all also being equal, if two Megathrons are fighting each other while generating enough transversal to make tracking an issue, then one that's tracking-disrupted will hands-down lose to the one that isn't.
I disagree with the assertion that range-disruption isn't as useful any more - if anything, because all ships have slowed down range has taken on a slightly greater significance, so being able to restrict the range that enemies can engage at is potentially more powerful. Of course, if you're planning to orbit at 500m with AB you won't get much benefit from it, but if you're planning on outranging the enemy (something that in many cases became more viable) then it's a huge advantage. Look at the ceptor vs. Harbinger example, and now replace that ceptor with another Harbi that has the ability to stay at 17-20km and pound the range-disrupted opponent with Scorch...
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2008.11.18 14:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
Originally by: Denuo Secus Is this discussion about bonused TDs only or would you say TDs are also useful on ships without bonus? Let's say a Gallente blaster HAC, BC or AS...
They're still pretty effective, particularly if you're using them in a given situation. For example, using one with range disruption on an interceptor is really useful if you're tackling a Minmatar or Amarr BC/cruiser. With Barrage or Scorch respectively these ships can fairly comfortably hit out to 20km, enough to force you to disengage quite quickly. With a single unbonused disruptor on them (with range script), they won't even be able to scratch your paintwork at those ranges.
Tracking disruption will work in the same way though obviously it's not as easy to point out specific situations as it is with the range disruption. However, reducing your enemy's turret tracking by 35-50% is definitely going to be significant in a lot of cases. It will give you an extra safety net against ships of a larger class, but perhaps more significantly it will really give you an edge against ships that are otherwise similar to yours - with all also being equal, if two Megathrons are fighting each other while generating enough transversal to make tracking an issue, then one that's tracking-disrupted will hands-down lose to the one that isn't.
I disagree with the assertion that range-disruption isn't as useful any more - if anything, because all ships have slowed down range has taken on a slightly greater significance, so being able to restrict the range that enemies can engage at is potentially more powerful. Of course, if you're planning to orbit at 500m with AB you won't get much benefit from it, but if you're planning on outranging the enemy (something that in many cases became more viable) then it's a huge advantage. Look at the ceptor vs. Harbinger example, and now replace that ceptor with another Harbi that has the ability to stay at 17-20km and pound the range-disrupted opponent with Scorch...
Thanks a lot! I'll give it a try. Could be very helpful for a blaster ship to get more or less unscathed in blaster range against laser and autocannon ships.
Range disruption while approaching - then tracking disruption while orbiting.
I use unbonused multi ECM's at this moment. But they are way to unreliable imo. It's gambling, not tactic ^^
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Cibo Seidensha
Amarr Tres Viri Guard Tres Viri
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Posted - 2008.11.19 11:18:00 -
[17]
Good advice, thank you guys. |
Vyktrr
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:19:00 -
[18]
I <3 Tracking Disruptors!
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The Tzar Please don't say that TD's are good.
For the next 4 months we'll see nerf it threads followed by a 'balancing'.
Do TD's effect continue whilst cloaked as ECM does?
PREPARE TO KNOW THE PAIN OF THE FALCON PILOT!
o wait I fly curses now forget I spoke |
Dasalt Istgut
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:42:00 -
[20]
They're more useful now. Since sig tanking is a lot more viable with the web and missile changes, tracking disruptors have a purpose. They were always pretty good to be honest but now they're just that much better since you can sig tank missiles decently. |
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Mal'ol Soddo
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:20:00 -
[21]
TD WTF Drake
Hi slots: 7xAssault Launchers (For shooting down small targets)
Mid: 5xTracking Disrupters (For really annoying anyone else 1X10mn II Microwarp (You won't go fast enough when bubbles are around with AB, and if your tackled your not using speed to get away, microwap drive or no)
Low: Damage Control II 1600 Tungston plate 2 X EANM
Notes: Drones, whatever, if theres a few of you together you could use 5xremote rep to try and make each other last longer (and maybe fit a small RR in hi as well).
EHP About 50k depending on skills.
Confuses the hell outta people, works on the belief no one primaries a drake (unless theres nothing else left on the field), and with assault launchers can help keep AF/Frigs away from your bigger ships too. Also doesn't instant pop like the arbitrator would. |
Alt Sauce
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:40:00 -
[22]
Why bother lowering their tracking when you can totally jam them instead? _________ |
Madla Mafia
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:32:00 -
[23]
Ha ha ha, I can see it already. Thanks to all idiot people and their nerfs, the next patch will be the TD-nerf. Then, the Amarr recons will once and for all have been made worse than a rookie ship.
- Nos Nerf - Nano Nerf - Pilgrim built-in-no-rage-weakness - Drone bandwidth nerf - Tracking Disruptor Nerf
Oh man...next thing: Nerf Laz0rz!!! ------------------------------------------
Amarr - getting screwed since 2005. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alt Sauce Why bother lowering their tracking when you can totally jam them instead?
Hmmm... 'cause tracking definitely works?
Good luck relying on your lone unbonused multispec to save you. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:52:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/11/2008 18:53:08
Originally by: Madla Mafia
- Drone bandwidth nerf
Pilgrim/Curse have been totally and absolutely wtf-boosted by recieving 150m3 dronebay.
That said, the scripts have nerfed TDs like all other things. But they have boosted one aspect of TDs after that to compensate.
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Barkel
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cpt Branko That said, the scripts have nerfed TDs like all other things. But they have boosted one aspect of TDs after that to compensate.
It would be nice if they gave that same post-script boost to tracking links. The logistics ship bonus for those got hit particularly hard by the scripts system and haven't seen any love since. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Barkel
Originally by: Cpt Branko That said, the scripts have nerfed TDs like all other things. But they have boosted one aspect of TDs after that to compensate.
It would be nice if they gave that same post-script boost to tracking links. The logistics ship bonus for those got hit particularly hard by the scripts system and haven't seen any love since.
Falloff bonus on TC/TE/tracking link is obviously imbalanced however, for some reason.
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Barkel
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Falloff bonus on TC/TE/tracking link is obviously imbalanced however, for some reason.
To paraphrase. Never attribute to design what could easily be caused by apathy.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Barkel
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Falloff bonus on TC/TE/tracking link is obviously imbalanced however, for some reason.
To paraphrase. Never attribute to design what could easily be caused by apathy.
Makes sense when you think about it from that angle Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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