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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:05:00 -
[1]
To address performance issues in EVE we are making some changes to the EVE Mail system in Quantum Rise 1.0.1. You will now be able to fetch up to 1000 undeleted EVE Mails, however, EVE Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails. In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted. |
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Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:18:00 -
[2]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails! |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:19:00 -
[3]
Yes. Don't touch old Concord killmails.
Also, this was a change which the CSM raised, just fyi |
Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails!
This!
And are you doing anything about character limit on each mail? Half the time I have to send up messages in 2-3 separate mails due to the limit. |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails!
This again! I have killmails I am fond of from back in the day, don't destroy them! |
Tandin
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:28:00 -
[6]
Any plans to fix the performance issues with the QR release? (i.e. the painful jump times when you have weapons grouped)
Grab your ship, get in fleet.. Eve is a party and PvP'ers just party harder. |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:29:00 -
[7]
what!!
we'll have to see how the exchange rate affects my game time renewal in feb.
Can we at least have a storyline tracker introduced?
Its always good to know how many missions off the next storyline or how many storylines youve done overall.
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Helison
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Imorral Dragons
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:32:00 -
[8]
PLEASE make it first possible to export mails before mass-purging. This is specially important for CONCORD mails.
1000 emails: Will these be the newest 1000 emails?
How about improving the mail-system generally instead of gimping it?
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The Riff
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:33:00 -
[9]
Will this mean that POS running low on fuel wont send out the same mail 3 times every hour?
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler To address performance issues in EVE we are making some changes to the EVE Mail system in Quantum Rise 1.0.1. You will now be able to fetch up to 1000 undeleted EVE Mails, however, EVE Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails. In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
Totally the wrong way about it...
How about *not* fetching all the damn mails, until a portrait is actually clicked - and *then* fetch *those* mails.
BIG Lottery |
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: The Riff Will this mean that POS running low on fuel wont send out the same mail 3 times every hour?
lol
im sure once is enough, it was twice when i had a pos up 6 months ago
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:35:00 -
[12]
Didn't you try this with Bookmarks already.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Didn't you try this with Bookmarks already.
they removed all bookmarks within a certain distance of stations and gates ages back and replaced it with warp to 0
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The Riff
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: The Riff Will this mean that POS running low on fuel wont send out the same mail 3 times every hour?
lol
im sure once is enough, it was twice when i had a pos up 6 months ago
its gone +1 with QR
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:38:00 -
[15]
haha, well as i said in the ask a dev any question thread:
Is it intentional to reintroduce old bugs in new patches?
someone should build any of these new systems on the latest version of the clients code.
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:39:00 -
[16]
Dont freaking touch concord mails
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sargeant HAmmer on 18/11/2008 18:41:20
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Dont freaking touch concord mails
they should migrate them to the kill combat log system
(i think its some genius's idea to "upgrade" systems that work at the mo)
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GreGh Rakrot
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Dont freaking touch concord mails
they should migrate them to the kill combat log system
this |
Batolemaeus
Caldari Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: The Riff Will this mean that POS running low on fuel wont send out the same mail 3 times every hour?
lol
im sure once is enough, it was twice when i had a pos up 6 months ago
Fixed in QR.
Now they send three. ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: The Riff Will this mean that POS running low on fuel wont send out the same mail 3 times every hour?
lol
im sure once is enough, it was twice when i had a pos up 6 months ago
Fixed in QR.
Now they send three.
surely one at the 24 hours notice mark should be enough dont ya think?
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:46:00 -
[21]
Uh ok, but seriously since it's the first page and you might still be paying attention to this, can we get any sort of timeline for fixing the evemail system? It would be great to get a "sent" outbox, would be great if the whole "to" box was easier to copy names into, and
dum dum dum
It would be tonythetiger GREEEEEATT if mailbox settings persisted. As an example, I want my undread messages to always appear at the top like every_other_email_client_ever. It's this little quirk of mine. It would be great if I didn't have to sort that after every relog, because lag can be screwey with evemail.
Anyways there's a whole ton of changes that would make evemail soo much better, though I think just having persistent settings would make it 500% better. So uh, could you include that as well? Or at least acknowledge that you know evemail is pretty bad? And has been for x years? -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:47:00 -
[22]
If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Sargeant HAmmer on 18/11/2008 18:55:55 Edited by: Sargeant HAmmer on 18/11/2008 18:55:13
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat Uh ok, but seriously since it's the first page and you might still be paying attention to this, can we get any sort of timeline for fixing the evemail system? It would be great to get a "sent" outbox, would be great if the whole "to" box was easier to copy names into, and
dum dum dum
It would be tonythetiger GREEEEEATT if mailbox settings persisted. As an example, I want my undread messages to always appear at the top like every_other_email_client_ever. It's this little quirk of mine. It would be great if I didn't have to sort that after every relog, because lag can be screwey with evemail.
Anyways there's a whole ton of changes that would make evemail soo much better, though I think just having persistent settings would make it 500% better. So uh, could you include that as well? Or at least acknowledge that you know evemail is pretty bad? And has been for x years?
/signed
so summing up
1. fix the to box 2. fix multiple emails (pos) 3. fix non recurrent settings 4. sent items??? 5. (im adding this one) read reports 6. (and this one) multiple mails e.g. more than 1 receiver 7. ability to have unread at the top and then not disappear into the list never to remember who sent you it. 8. Export of kill mails/Transfer to combat log 9. storyline tracking system 10. export mails full stop :p
ill try and keep this on page 1 updated with suggestions
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Wollari
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:53:00 -
[24]
When can we expect that the "new" lag intruducted with QR will be fixed. I find this more important that the 1000 evemail limit.
btw. Is this 1000 evemail limit per Char/Conversation or overall?
p.s. and don't touch concord mails or provide us an export tool for old killmails/evemails or better. Import them into the combat log. Then you can perhabs purge them.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Gone'Postal Didn't you try this with Bookmarks already.
they removed all bookmarks within a certain distance of stations and gates ages back and replaced it with warp to 0
Oh I know, but looks like there not fixing anything, just removing old "uneeded" items from teh database, BM's were replaced with warp to zero yes, but that was added as a "how do we stop them just remaking the damn things" evemails we can't remake them.
Just give us a way to export the damn things!.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:55:00 -
[26]
Gee, what is most important: keeping killmail archives or improving client/server performance? The good of the few, or the good of the many?
Just copy your mails and paste them into a Word document, and voila! Killmail archives for ya.
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Li Fengxian Gee, what is most important: keeping killmail archives or improving client/server performance? The good of the few, or the good of the many?
Just copy your mails and paste them into a Word document, and voila! Killmail archives for ya.
or maybe store them in the database under the combat log and seperated by month so as to cause less lag in retrievals of mails. |
Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:59:00 -
[28]
NOES!
Do you know how long it took me to collect 1000+ evemails? :( |
Kayn Otar
New Age Flying Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:01:00 -
[29]
This seems like the wrong way to fix a mail system. I understand having a quota. I understand that this is easier than rewriting it to be more like an "real" mail system. But really, I don't see how this will fix anything. But if you can still page through older messages, this wouldn't be so bad. (Yes, 1000 is a lot, but it is still an arbitrary limit.)
I would really like to see threaded corp mails. It is very annoying not knowing the order the replies were sent in, and reading them out of order, or not knowing the subject the reply is referring to. |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:04:00 -
[30]
such as in game corp forums .... |
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Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Li Fengxian Gee, what is most important: keeping killmail archives or improving client/server performance? The good of the few, or the good of the many?
Just copy your mails and paste them into a Word document, and voila! Killmail archives for ya.
or maybe store them in the database under the combat log and seperated by month so as to cause less lag in retrievals of mails.
Perhaps 4 year old EVE mails clogging the database is one of the reasons why it slows down in the first place.
In truth, I couldn't care less about limiting EVE mails. If changing the way it works can improve the performance of the server or client even by a single digit, I won't shed a single tear of salty water for lost mails. |
Lafe
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:06:00 -
[32]
So, will this actually address the critical, god awful, I-want-to-smash-my-computer-screen-in-lag that we experience since the QR expansion? |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:08:00 -
[33]
the only lag ive experienced is client lag and not network lag.
thats something different altogether, possibly brought on by the addition of a load of new graphics. |
Evlyna
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:10:00 -
[34]
The strange priority order of the devs bug/performance list has always amazed me. |
Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer the only lag ive experienced is client lag and not network lag.
thats something different altogether, possibly brought on by the addition of a load of new graphics.
While I doubt that EVE mail is single-handedly crippling the client performance, it could contribute to general lagginess in way we do not suspect, even in small percentage.
If CCP is feeling that limiting the number of EVE mails archived by the client can help improving the performance, it is a nerf I can easily live with. |
Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Evlyna The strange priority order of the devs bug/performance list has always amazed me.
No omelette is made without breaking eggs. |
MistaChuck
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:13:00 -
[37]
Epic Fail
yes, the 5 eve-mails in my clients folder caused my fleet slideshow battle on friday, oh and they consumed 1.4gb of memory..
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:15:00 -
[38]
EVEMail API before purge pls. |
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supr3m3justic3
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:17:00 -
[39]
This is it...this is the big fix for lag. You have the bright idea to nerf everything all to hell and this is the best thing you can come up with to fix lag. FAIL EPIC FAIL!!!! |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
evemail api, may as well ask for an external mail client |
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Boiglio
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:24:00 -
[41]
As I've been grousing and *****ing about for the entire time I've been in Eve (CAS members can attest to this, often with eyes rolling), how about giving us a mail system that has at least as much functionality as 1990-era PINE?
At this point, it seems to not-nearly-a-techie me that it has to be more difficult to try and explain the god-awful mess you're asking us to use than to just give us a basic, working, generic message system that functions the way human beings expect these days.
Settling in to write an Evemail or, heaven forbid READ my messages gives me a sense of dread only equalled by realizing I've accidently entered Jita.
Fix it! Fix it not only because it's the way things should be done, not merely because someone had extra time on their hands after breaking half the game...but fix it because it's driving ME insane, and otherwise I'm taking you all down with me. Promise.
Most sincerely your not-friend,
Boig |
Desparo
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:25:00 -
[42]
Calling this an email service is like say the bum at the street corner is a mobile window cleaning service.
-It takes too long to wade through the 50 odd emails I keep to find the new ones. Who's crazy enough to keep a 1000 of them. -Please get rid of the 3 emails per hour when my POS is low. I need only one. -Add the ability to keep sent emails. Even if just for a couple of weeks. -I wouldn't have to send two or three corp emails if there was more space in 1 of them.
You could make it a really good email service by allowing us to download and delete emails from outside EVE with an email program. Don't allow us to send via the email program of course. Would also reduce some network lag because people wouldn't have to log on just to read there emails.
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Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Boiglio As I've been grousing and *****ing about for the entire time I've been in Eve (CAS members can attest to this, often with eyes rolling), how about giving us a mail system that has at least as much functionality as 1990-era PINE?
At this point, it seems to not-nearly-a-techie me that it has to be more difficult to try and explain the god-awful mess you're asking us to use than to just give us a basic, working, generic message system that functions the way human beings expect these days.
Settling in to write an Evemail or, heaven forbid READ my messages gives me a sense of dread only equalled by realizing I've accidently entered Jita.
Fix it! Fix it not only because it's the way things should be done, not merely because someone had extra time on their hands after breaking half the game...but fix it because it's driving ME insane, and otherwise I'm taking you all down with me. Promise.
Most sincerely your not-friend,
Boig
lol
im adding your point to my list |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:30:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
evemail api, may as well ask for an external mail client
Evemail POP3 server, pls. į ----------------------------------------- "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:33:00 -
[45]
with our own email addresses [email protected]
nice ring to it, itll never happen
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JadeO
Caldari W.A.S.P
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:34:00 -
[46]
No wait, after 3 days-worth of posts of players reporting serious bugs on the new, let's call it wannabe-Expansion, WITHOUT a single reply from CCP, you guys manage to make a *FIRST PAGE* news stating the changes of the EVEMail system on QR 1.01 ?
Seriously, are you guys kidding with us? I'm paying for the game, therefor, i'm entitled to ask for Quality something that, right now, i'm not getting since i'm being disconnected every 5 minutes.
I'm wondering if CCP adopted some sort of let's screw players policy since Trinity?
(disclaimer: yes, i'm ****ed) ______________
Looking for a good signature, logo, website layout? EVEMail me! |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: JadeO No wait, after 3 days-worth of posts of players reporting serious bugs on the new, let's call it wannabe-Expansion, WITHOUT a single reply from CCP, you guys manage to make a *FIRST PAGE* news stating the changes of the EVEMail system on QR 1.01 ?
Seriously, are you guys kidding with us? I'm paying for the game, therefor, i'm entitled to ask for Quality something that, right now, i'm not getting since i'm being disconnected every 5 minutes.
I'm wondering if CCP adopted some sort of let's screw players policy since Trinity?
(disclaimer: yes, i'm ****ed)
it seems like more anger than anything recently.
hey devs, has there been a change since 03 when you launched and you listened to players suggestions? |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
they should migrate them to the kill combat log system
this |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:49:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Alz Shado
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
evemail api, may as well ask for an external mail client
Evemail POP3 server, pls.
and this also. just -POP3 +imap. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails!
Quoting this cause I'm down; I love my old lossmails __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Thevlyn
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:03:00 -
[51]
Perhaps consider lowering the number of DED messages to 1 per PoS per hour. as a director i recieve 3 per pos per hour.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:07:00 -
[52]
E(ve)-Mail Export first please!
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Jules Smeg
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:11:00 -
[53]
How about a few options on the mail system:
For the current emails: * How about an option to combine all the emails (and keep their information, date sent, thread info etc) and put them into 1 email from that person.
* Have the ability to export them (ie all from 1 character) button.
Othere people have suggested other things - how about implementing a few things so that people have the option eg to save old kill mails etc some how etc.
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Mynxee
Hellcats
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:16:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Winterblink If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
This. Pretty please with sugar on top!
I don't keep many evemails in my personal inbox, and it would be next to NONE if I could export them. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:17:00 -
[55]
I only keep the dirty evemails. |
Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:21:00 -
[56]
Meh.
[rant] HEY CCP, HERES AN IDEA:
Why not make the IGB more effecient, I'm sure that will help with performance [/rant]
Seriously, need an export function for EveMail like SWG had with /mail |
Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:30:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Li Fengxian on 18/11/2008 20:30:18
Originally by: JadeO No wait, after 3 days-worth of posts of players reporting serious bugs on the new, let's call it wannabe-Expansion, WITHOUT a single reply from CCP, you guys manage to make a *FIRST PAGE* news stating the changes of the EVEMail system on QR 1.01 ?
Seriously, are you guys kidding with us? I'm paying for the game, therefor, i'm entitled to ask for Quality something that, right now, i'm not getting since i'm being disconnected every 5 minutes.
I'm wondering if CCP adopted some sort of let's screw players policy since Trinity?
(disclaimer: yes, i'm ****ed)
They just wanted to warn us that the next patch will change how EVE handles EVE mail. It's not as if it'll be the only change in the patch, ffs!
Man, people, calm down! You read like a bunch of 12 year old brats! OMG ILL LOSE MY FOUR YEARS KILL MAILS KEKEKEKEKE!
It's a really tiny, tiny change that is being drawn into exaggerated proportions! Who gives a flying f*** about your EVE mails and your kill mails besides you? If it makes me fly better and faster and makes CCP's job of maintaining working servers and hardwares easier, who gives a damn?
Geez...
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Winterblink If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
w0rd.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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John Hollow
Minmatar Afterisk
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:32:00 -
[59]
Have no idea what evemail has to do with current performance issues. Unless somehow their mail database is kept with their game database and the recent lag is because they just realized their disk space is all full and they can't afford to buy more I mean seriously...it's just PLAIN TEXT mails anyway. Ok, maybe some hyperlinks, but there's not a ton of images to keep saved. Archive older evemails to a seperate database that is normalized and then let it slow down the occasional time someone wants to check that. Keep the recent evemails in a non-normalized database for faster loading. Save the number of evemails received in a seperate table so as not to have to do a count against the totals. Unless this is already similar to how you are doing it. In that case, something is wrong with the database setup/integration. Really though, I could probably never do the work to setup a real time game server like you guys have, but for something like e-mail, it shouldn't be that difficult to make it perform.
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Mike C
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:36:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mike C on 18/11/2008 20:35:51
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Winterblink If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
w0rd.
w0rd¦ ________________________________________
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John Hollow
Minmatar Afterisk
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:00:00 -
[61]
Hmmm...it's off of the front page now? Not doing it anymore, or would rather not advertise it?
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:06:00 -
[62]
Jesus this is a terrible idea.
Directors in huge alliances can easily receive over 1000 evemails a day between applications, towers crying for fuel, office notices, etc.
This does not solve the problem, it may actually make it worse.
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Shae Tiann
Hellcats Doom Armada
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:09:00 -
[63]
If the old Concord killmails must be removed, could they at least be transferred into our Combat Logs? Many of those mails have sentimental value to the people who have earned them. ---------------------------------
Sweet Little Bad Girl
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Ephemeral Waves
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:11:00 -
[64]
Leave my old killmails alone!
Eph.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:11:00 -
[65]
Exactly how many nails does your customer service coffin need?
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Kaar
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:16:00 -
[66]
Yes, do this but don't fix the eternal bug that sends each of my chars 3 fuel warning mails ever hour.
---
---
|
Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: DaiTengu Jesus this is a terrible idea.
Directors in huge alliances can easily receive over 1000 evemails a day between applications, towers crying for fuel, office notices, etc.
This does not solve the problem, it may actually make it worse.
They'll be OK. If you read the OP, it says that mails over n¦ 1000 will not be fetched, but will show up once you delete the ones you have on your inbox. (think of it as a mail queue) |
Frug
Repo Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:39:00 -
[68]
How about improving this antiquated system that doesn't even have a separate folder to save mails into? |
Inanna Zuni
Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:40:00 -
[69]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO!!!!!!OOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Not only killmails but also some other NPC mails are needed for record-keeping. Without an 'archive' function (in-EVE or out) deletion of these would represent a loss of player-useful information.
You know it makes sense ... just say NO!
Inanna
|
Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:41:00 -
[70]
Nooooo!
I want to keep my old NPC generated mails! |
|
Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:44:00 -
[71]
I never deleted any mail i got from insurance, but serious this topic shows the issue with eve players, the emo rage is strong in this topic...
|
Li Fengxian
Gallente Brothers In Scarlet
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 21:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Furb Killer I never deleted any mail i got from insurance, but serious this topic shows the issue with eve players, the emo rage is strong in this topic...
Whew, I was wondering if I was all alone in here. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:00:00 -
[73]
You're deleting my killmails? To hell with that.
|
Smacko Thug
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:04:00 -
[74]
If your mail system is causing lag, its not the number of mails...
Its a badly designed system.
But what would I know, ive only been postmaster for a major ISP for 14 years now.
Switch the system to a IMAP server... itll run on a low grade pentium, hell, ive got a piece of crap server here I can arrange delivery of which will easily handle 100,000+ imap users. Throw a terabyte of disc at it and youre sorted!!!!
|
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails!
This again! I have killmails I am fond of from back in the day, don't destroy them!
copy and paste to notepad and label "old killmails"
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
|
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:05:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Kaar Edited by: Kaar on 18/11/2008 21:17:02 Yes, do this but don't fix the eternal bug that sends each of my chars 3 pos fuel warning mails every hour.
seconded, those get irritating, why do they send three of them? couldnt they at least send ONE mail an hour, or ONE mail every two hours
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
|
omgdutch2005
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:12:00 -
[77]
yeah, IMAP server would definately be the bomb :)
i can read eve mails then in like outlook :)
and get a licence at like a 3rd party webbrowser, strip it a lill and voila a fully functional webbrowser :) (or get one form webkit, lots of phones use it so memory usage should be low low low :)) |
Tal Kjelthorne
Kjelthorne Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:14:00 -
[78]
I think this might be too drastic a measure right now, as there are a few things you can do with EVE mail before just dumping it to 1,000.
1: Set up a page system in EVEmail so you can only see the first (20?) messages. Default the setting to most recent and go from there. Make it look more like a standard meatspace email service. Individual messages show up as they show up, not "Tal Kjelthorne, 1 of 840 unread".
2: Put some work into the CONCORD emails concerning POSes. When a POS is filled, people generally fill it evenly so they have 14/21/30 days of fuel in it. When we get a "low fuel" EVEmail, we get one for EACH FUEL THAT'S BELOW 24 HOURS, every hour until it dies.
Frankly I don't need hourly reminders that my POS is running out on the day it's running out, because I already have it on the calendar and have made plans for it. Reduce that to 1 EVEmail to the corporation (not each individual player who is authorized to get it) 24 hours before the lowest fuel runs out. For good measure have one again at the 12, 6 and 1 hour mark and try to get the system to stop going ballistic every time more than one fuel is below 24 hours. A bit of programming could go a long ways here.
Finally, I think it's worth considering a POP3 service or EVEMail API, 1 meg limit per account (it's text for God's sake) and set the server to reject attachments. With roughly 200,000 accounts, that's about 200 gigabytes of data; easily handled by even the weakest of servers.
I know lag is an issue and you're doing everything you can, but this isn't that serious and can be resolved fairly easily. Besides, logging in every few hours to see which POS is under siege is annoying. |
Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:14:00 -
[79]
You NEED to make mails exportable before you do this. IT IS NOT OPTIONAL. |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:14:00 -
[80]
Originally by: John Hollow Unless somehow their mail database is kept with their game database and
Dude ... the forums and website are on the game cluster I hear. Probably some shopping lists and address books are in the game cluster database, too. |
|
Evelgrivion
Athanasius Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:15:00 -
[81]
With the importance of history to a significant portion of the Eve Online population, it would be considerate to provide a tool to allow for at least relatively simple export for Eve-Mails.
I think there is credence to the concerns of eve-mail flooding for some of the larger alliances. With hundreds of starbases across the cluster, it's inevitable that some of them will start running out of fuel. When they start alerting you every hour, you can rapidly get a flood if you're not on to answer them on the spot. Some control should be available to keep the flood under control.
An API for Eve-mails is long over due, which I imagine requires a re-write of the way the eve-mail system works. CCP earned a reputation of enjoying the history and interaction of it's players; the changes as currently addressed are rather opposite of that reputation. An enhanced technique of working with Eve-mails would be very much appreciated by everyone who uses the system every day. |
Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Garion Avarr You NEED to make mails exportable before you do this. IT IS NOT OPTIONAL.
/signed |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:19:00 -
[83]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 18/11/2008 22:20:25 How about allowing me to download my evemails via POP3? That would be lovely. For bonus points, an SMTP interface to it, to let me use a 'real' mailclient would be particularly awesome. -- 249km locking? |
Presidente Gallente
Order of the Griffin
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:20:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 18/11/2008 22:20:13 Thanks, CCP.
QR was the best solution against my addiction. Auto-keep out game active.
Don't touch my nerfed stuff :-P
+++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:32:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Li Fengxian Man, people, calm down! You read like a bunch of 12 year old brats! OMG ILL LOSE MY FOUR YEARS KILL MAILS KEKEKEKEKE!
It's a really tiny, tiny change that is being drawn into exaggerated proportions! Who gives a flying f*** about your EVE mails and your kill mails besides you? If it makes me fly better and faster and makes CCP's job of maintaining working servers and hardwares easier, who gives a damn?
Geez...
Why do you think servers exist? I'll give you a hint, it's not to brag about your uptime and pings. It is, as the name would suggest, to serve. The mail server exists to serve people's needs for mail, and one of those needs is archiving. Just because I'm archiving personal data doesn't make that a bad thing - if anything, that makes it more important, because nobody else will archive it for me.
Frankly, it's not even the actual functionality of this change that annoys me - I'll lose a very small number of mails, and I've just finished backing them up to a text file on my hard drive. It's the sheer idiocy of it. It is an unneeded, unjustified change to a system that is already horrifically broken, seemingly done for the sole purpose of kneecapping the one part that actually worked acceptably well. For the amount of dev time they're going to spend on this, they could just as easily have someone grab some freeware mail client written by someone who had a clue and slap it into the client code and not have to worry about it, ever again. But instead, they poke, prod, and never actually do a damn thing except aggravate their player base. It's incomprehensible to me. |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:39:00 -
[86]
AND LET US WRITE MORE!!! please...... |
Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 22:48:00 -
[87]
Topic in regards to this issue can be found in the Assembly Hall http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=927883"here.[/url] Voice your support for sane improvement to the mail system that lets you export and keep your old messages!
Another Assembly Hall thread specifically about saving killmails can be found here.
Let the CSM and CCP hear your voice!
|
randomname4me
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:03:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kaar Edited by: Kaar on 18/11/2008 21:17:02 Yes, do this but don't fix the eternal bug that sends each of my chars 3 pos fuel warning mails every hour.
there is already a game mechanic that prevents whole 3 mail per hour thing... its called keeping your pos fuel bays up to date.
EVE Online: Rated RRR- For Explicit Breakfast Piercing Bullets. |
Vila Vix
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:03:00 -
[89]
Is there any way perhaps to have the game cache your mails like it caches logs? Sometimes it's necessary to go back four months and look something up to clarify a point. I doubt this would require too much effort, as long as the mails were logged according to folder and then sender's name.
~VV~ |
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:09:00 -
[90]
Don't you dare touching the old CONCORD mails! There's not even close to 1000 mails in my inbox (not even close to 100, I prefer to delete messages about things I dealt with). You should prioritize. Allow the players to give priority to their mails in four categories: Low, Medium, High, Extreme.
Low - If you have 1000 mails and an other one of higher priority comes in, the oldest one from this category will be deleted. Mails from this category will be deleted after three months. Medium - If you have 1000 mails and an other one of higher priority comes in and there's no mail of lower priority left, the oldest one of these mails will be deleted. Mails from this category will be deleted after 6 months automatically. New mails with lower priority will be delayed. High - If you have 1000 mails and an other one of higher priority comes in and there's no mail of lower priority left, the oldest of on of these mails will be deleted. New Mails with lower priority will be delayed. (default) Extreme - These mails will never be deleted automatically, all mails after these will be delayed.
After that, you might want to add a little ticker box that says "Important" - This means that this mail is not to be deleted. (Even the delete button should disappear until the box is unchecked.) --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
|
origPumu
D U F F
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:13:00 -
[91]
Please remove the IGB and EVE-mail. I don't need it. It is slow, buggy and (as said) useless. Why to manage a Corp or Alliance by mails. Just use the chatchannels!
[/ironic] |
Neth'Rae
Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:16:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Neth''Rae on 18/11/2008 23:15:54 I made this thread a while ago, about improving EVE Mail for Corps and Alliance aswell as provide better sorting options. I guess having an out-box would be a good thing aswell :) |
Atlas Oracle
Minmatar Colossus Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:17:00 -
[93]
sometimes you guys seem incompetent to me.
/boggle |
Neth'Rae
Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:20:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Neth''Rae on 18/11/2008 23:20:22
Originally by: Atlas Oracle sometimes you guys seem incompetent to me.
/boggle
I guess it's a performance issue. |
Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:23:00 -
[95]
Well, CCP, it DOES seem that you've openned a can of worms by deleteing old emails (killmails being affected).
If your mail systems are taking out huge chunks of server side processor time then you need to rework the mail system.
Whilst I understand that the Evemail system is NOT a POP/IMAP/exchange/etc system and that it is a proprietary system, and that changing to IMAP means that you need to have a domain name for each user, introduces issues with SPAM form outside sources, etc.
In order to resolve the issue, you SHOULD delete all old emails as you are going to... but allow the export of evemails first. a Single Bulk text dump of all evemails to an external email address (that is done during low processor load / downtime, etc when there are few/no users online).
Give users a message warning that they have 3 days, 2 days 1 day, last warning and THEN purge old emails. Give them a chance to remove the emails first.
Keeping the 1000 email header limit is a great idea. If you cant read the first 1000 emails your getting then you dont NEED to see the 1001st email......
Keep up the good work, but a little tweaking would be better...
|
ndal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:24:00 -
[96]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler To address performance issues in EVE we are making some changes to the EVE Mail system in Quantum Rise 1.0.1. You will now be able to fetch up to 1000 undeleted EVE Mails, however, EVE Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails. In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
No where in Wrangler's post does he say that mails above 1000 will be deleted only that they wonĘt be loaded into the mail client.
This means that they can implement this change now and then at a later date release a tool which will let you export mail or save it to different folders within the client.
These changes take time to do but I would rather be without my very old messages for a few months or even years if it helps reduce lag on the server now even if only a little bit.
I also canĘt imagine that many players have over 1000 eve mails, which they want to keep. My current mail count is 3 and thatĘs only to allow me to send mails to them with out having to type in there names
|
Sahjahn
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:25:00 -
[97]
Besides the mail changes can we get any word from CCP as to whether they are going to fix the problem (excessive lag/performance issues) when running 2 or more clients? Or even an admission that there is even a problem at all? |
Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 23:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: ndal
Originally by: CCP Wrangler To address performance issues in EVE we are making some changes to the EVE Mail system in Quantum Rise 1.0.1. You will now be able to fetch up to 1000 undeleted EVE Mails, however, EVE Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails. In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
No where in Wrangler's post does he say that mails above 1000 will be deleted only that they wonĘt be loaded into the mail client.
Your missing the point. The issue is highlighted.
People who have been in the game for 3-5 years will loose their Killmails! Thats what the issue is!
|
Joey2cool
A Galatic Exploration
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:25:00 -
[99]
only in eve can people make a complaint about changing something as simple as the internal mail system... |
Beast Jasper
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:25:00 -
[100]
This is the least of your problems guys, just go and have a read of the Issues and technical problems forum. You've currently got hundreds and hundreds of players unable to play the game properly, be that getting into the game or horrendous lag that makes it unplayable since QR.
No one from your support team has offered any reassurance to these players that something is being done, and then you announce a patch to fix th MAIL system???
Oh please.... |
|
Gilgamoth
Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:34:00 -
[101]
Keep your hands off my Concord Kill-mails.
BAD CCP BAD!
Regards,
Gil |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:40:00 -
[102]
Seriously, people whining about losing killmails, isn't that what you've got killboards for?? |
Cor'len
The Silence of Thunder
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:43:00 -
[103]
If you don't leave my Concord mails alone or allow us to export them, then I quit*! I really mean it!
-Cor'len
(*: I'm quitting anyway, just milking it for all it's worth) |
Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 00:45:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg Seriously, people whining about losing killmails, isn't that what you've got killboards for??
Some of us don't like to advertise our preferred ship fits publicly. |
Leroy Meeks
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:09:00 -
[105]
CCP go work with Mozzila.org and get a real in-game browser and mail client!!! Then put in a detached mail service that can't impact the game.
Please tell me the mail is not stored in the same database as the critical game data. And if it is not, what performance issue are you addressing.
If it is, segregate it to a different server. Statements and actions like this give me pause. If you want people to clean things up. Set quotas. No sending e-mail until your inbox is cleaned up.
|
Felix Crusher
Amarr RennTech Heretic Nation
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:16:00 -
[106]
What I'm worried about is the start of a slippery slope here. Sure 1000 seems like a reasonable number, but what about in the future? Future "unannounced features" will probably cut this back more and more, just like CCP did with our character bios. It may only be a matter of months before we can keep just 100 evemails.
R.I.P. my old character bio, you were very amusing.
|
Jake Silence
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:29:00 -
[107]
There goes my first received evemail: 2005.11.22 00:05
Your instructors have been telling me great things about you, Jake Silence.
I've talked it over with my superiors, and we've decided to invite you to participate in the State War Academy's tutorial agent program for further instruction.
I'll be awaiting you at Kisogo VII - State War Academy School. You can find me there in the station's Agent listing in the lower right hand corner of your display.
With regards, Toiniainen Omu, State War Academy
My first skill trained: 2005.11.22 01:51 Training of the skill Engineering to level 2 has been completed
And my first loss mail: 2005.12.01 05:20
Victim: Jake Silence Alliance: Unknown Corporation: State War Academy Destroyed Type: Kestrel Solar System: Isikemi System Security Level: 0.8
Involved parties:
Name: Unknown (laid the final blow)
|
neoe77
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:32:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Originally by: Alz Shado
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
evemail api, may as well ask for an external mail client
Evemail POP3 server, pls.
and this also. just -POP3 +imap.
or automaticlly forward to out-system address. --------- check path using eve-path-find |
Zeko Rena
Caldari Tankt Spectrum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:35:00 -
[109]
Wow so many weird people who have fallen in love with Concord Mail, its an automated mail from a video game lol
Just copy and paste the text into a word document or a forum if you really want them that much, if its going to improve performance why are you complaining, if people complain about lag and then CCP try to impliment fixes dont get so upset and try to think of ways to avoid the loss
I have to wonder, does corp mail get 1000 mails, and does alliance mail get 1000 mails limit also, or is it just player EVE mails? --------------------------
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 01:48:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
This.
Manually getting out all my old ship losses, insurance mails, and skill messages would take forever, and they are how I keep track of the things I have done (I have a crap memory).
In other news, it's inspiring that CCP's first (public) act after the problems caused by QR is to further worsen what is already one of the worst designed parts of the game. |
|
Atraxerxes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 02:36:00 -
[111]
How about folders so I can organize emails I don't want to delete and also as a corp CEO it would be great if when revealing my corp's long term goals I can do it in one eve mail instead of 3 or 4 parts.
I basically stopped using eve mail and switch to our corp forum only.
Now that we all know there's a limit I can't wait till my inbox gets war dec'd.
|
Garion Avarr
Amarr Zero Zero Traders YTMND.
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 03:08:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Zeko Rena I have to wonder, does corp mail get 1000 mails, and does alliance mail get 1000 mails limit also, or is it just player EVE mails?
Seconding that CCP needs to clarify this -- is it 1000 mails in each mailing list, or 1000 mails total? I forsee some grave problems if it is the latter, especially as you cannot unsubscribe from the alliance and corp mailing lists and only a few people can delete the mails there.
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 03:14:00 -
[113]
1 Throw out the old mail code. 2 Introduce a real email server and add a simple IMAP client to EVE. 3 ??? 4 Profit
|
Scifi
Caldari REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 03:24:00 -
[114]
I'm probably weird but 1000 mails seems like quite a few. Though I can see a few people with valid reasons for keeping that many mails...even if the mail system would make it a nightmare to deal with. As everyone has mentioned a method to export those messages would be welcome though. With an upgrade to both the mail system and IGB being damn nice.
|
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 03:40:00 -
[115]
Deleting the old NPC mail really isn't kosher -- that's my history in the game, and it's the only place I have some of that data!
Please please reconsider deleting NPC mails, at least until there's a way to export them to an out-of-game file.
Seriously, you're going to **** off a lot of your oldest and best customers this way! ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Valya Dire
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 03:45:00 -
[116]
Just out of interest, is CCP actively trying to destroy their game and alienate huge swathes of their subscriber base?
The performance issues of Quantum Fail are bad enough that I actually for the first time in 4 years considered cancelling my account, and now you're going to annihilate player created history by getting rid of old killmails?!
Seriously, its not April guys and i'm not laughing.
|
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 04:30:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Valya Dire Just out of interest, is CCP actively trying to destroy their game and alienate huge swathes of their subscriber base?
The performance issues of Quantum Fail are bad enough that I actually for the first time in 4 years considered cancelling my account, and now you're going to annihilate player created history by getting rid of old killmails?!
Seriously, its not April guys and i'm not laughing.
This. I've got killmails saved from when I first started playing eve, and I'd really rather not see them disappear |
nemississ
Maximum Yarrage
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 04:39:00 -
[118]
Edited by: nemississ on 19/11/2008 04:40:56 This. ARE TEH STOOPID why do they always have to go fix stuffz that aint broken just leave it alone go work on something that will actually improve the game or like you know new content i totally expect to within the next year be able to fly a one half boob half teddy bear shaped ship because some dev thinks it will counterbalance bob's overpoweredness or somthing and that having two diffrent ppl design each half of the ship is funny. |
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:12:00 -
[119]
Seconded for
- IMAP mail server - Character limit on evemails increased considerably (from 1000 chars to at least 6000 chars)
|
IR Scoutar
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:12:00 -
[120]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 19/11/2008 05:12:44
Originally by: Joey2cool only in eve can people make a complaint about changing something as simple as the internal mail system...
only ccp can screw up something as simple as an internal mail system |
|
Pliauga
Gallente Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:24:00 -
[121]
And when exactly is this 1.0.1 patch coming? Any timeline? Any patchnotes?
---------- DRONE love rulez!! 'mkay?! . |
dosperado
Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 05:44:00 -
[122]
When we get a "Sent Items" folder in evemail where we can track back sent evemails for let me say about 30 days?
This feature is missing for years now!! ____________________ Security Status 8.9
|
Jack Nuddels
Congregatio
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 06:30:00 -
[123]
Fix the POS mail system!!!!11111elfelfelf
As CEO i get 3 mails! not one or two like in former times NO three, this is real spam. I guess this is against the Spam - EULA from CCP XD...
|
HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 06:32:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler To address performance issues in EVE we are making some changes to the EVE Mail system in Quantum Rise 1.0.1....
.....all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
GENIUS! this will fix everything. hey thanks. awesome. way to go. good job.
this patch/expansion rules.
maybe we should further cut bio's to a 12 character max. can't hurt right?
/kicks rock down the street and sighs/
------------------------------ everybody be cool this is a threadjack! just lay face down on the ground and no one will get hurt! |
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 06:55:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/11/2008 06:56:42 OK ... now is your chance as developers to do things right or foul them up.
First off - any system which is going to purge messages - should have a way of archiving them somewhere. Possibly to the clients hard drove. And ... fetching them back later.
Thus - an import and export function.
THEN - AFTER - you've given everyone time to back up their mail folders - you can think about blindly purging things.
Yeah, 99% of the stuff you purge may be junk. But 1% of it may be priceless to someone. You don't know - you're just blindly going to delete ANYTHING over 3 months old.
No.
Professionals - don't do that.
So, you can either be a bunch of sloppy slobs who either don't understand how to maintain a project properly - or - just don't care. Or ... you can do it right.
If you had a back up function IN THE FIRST PLACE, you might not have a problem with undeleted messages now.
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
ER0X
Amarr Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:02:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Zeko Rena Wow so many weird people who have fallen in love with Concord Mail, its an automated mail from a video game lol
Yes this is true but itĘs not quite that simple. IĘm sure I donĘt need to remind you that EvE is very different from many other MMOĘs out there. One major difference is the social networking side of this video game. These mails you so casually refer to are a catalogue of interesting events and happenings throughout the course of ones EvE existence, such as, changes in play style/corps/gang mates/friends.
These mails contain a record of a players, friends/wing men, good times and bad. Personally I have found mails on a Sunday morning I had no idea existed in my inbox . These mails are hard documents of fun nights on 1 shot 1 kill with a group of buddies . It would in my opinion be a damning indictment to remove these hazy memories without the ability to export them.
------
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White eyed
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:03:00 -
[127]
Edited by: White eyed on 19/11/2008 07:05:21 I do support this aslong as my killmails and suchs stay.
It has got to stay. Because with the removal of ghost training they said that they were players just like us, meaning they should know the feeling of losing old kill mails of your first and second kill (or when you got killed and still want revenge). Unless ofcourse they are all carebears who don't go to low sec at all.
Could someone from CCP please confirm this.
Should be very easy to program I would say. And otherwise give me the code and I will do it.
|
Wodanonline
Amarr Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 07:54:00 -
[128]
i am for any little thing that helps against lag keep it up! |
Cho Chiyo
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 08:37:00 -
[129]
Since you are finally doing something with the mail system, could you please look into the following features?
- A sent mails folder to keep track of what have you said to whom and when. This is quite an oversight and a source of much frustration for many of us.
- A way to sort out received emails, like war, corp, kills, insurances...
- A higher word limit for corp emails. Often corp emails have to detail the corp protocols for new recruits and it is frustrating to have to split such mails in several small bits.
- A way to see threads, specially needed in corp mails where several discussions are taking place over time.
- An archive system. That would allow many of us to greatly reduce the number of mails kept in our boxes without losing any information.
... as for the 1000 mails limit, well, the actual system is painful enough if you have to wade through 100 mails to find the one you are looking for. I pity the poor folks that actually have 1000+ emails in their box, probably not been able to fetch mail 1001 before doing some basic cleaning of their mailbox may be a good thing for some of them. |
h zebra
Dark Ashes
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 09:30:00 -
[130]
list of fixes that should be taking place.
1. stopping ships becoming invisible after jumpping, undocking or just being online an hour. 2. stop the grouped weapons icon flashing for no god dam reason. 3. stop icons in the pos prosessing screen jumpping about when you offline silos. 4. stop double entrys in the overview and on scanner 5. fix teh dam memory leak, after an hour or so it becomes a lag fest 6. stop pos's spamming 3 mails per hour
when you(ccp) post that your fixing these ill be a happy customer |
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piratezxp
Caldari Cerulean Sky Fire Industries AKA-AHN KINGDOM
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 09:55:00 -
[131]
I hope CCP go thru this thread, and look at our ideas/feedback...
CCP: Could we possibly have a localised cache of a outbox?, i send evemails sometimes and would like to look back on them, but have no way of doing so.
Signature ---------------------
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:05:00 -
[132]
What I don't understand is that there is an option "export to file" button on the market info window but not an export to file/folder on the mail?
At least such an export would improve things a little bit. A real mail system would be of course much better. And I don't believe that it would eat up significant resources but instead would increase functionality a lot.
|
Hygelac
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:08:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Hygelac on 19/11/2008 10:08:49 My systems administrator at work constantly sends out emails complaining that people aren't archiving their mailboxes or busting their storage limits so it's not surprising that eventually this would come to Eve.
I'm sure this is necessary and will help in terms of performance, however before you implement this you should consider that Eve mail currently has no options for export or archival.
If there were other options for managing your mail box rather than simply deleting mails then I'm sure people would use them.
CCP Please give us the ability to export our eve mails into .EML or another common mail format, this change wouldn't cause any ripples if we had a way of getting our Eve mail out of the client.
Edit : Just read all the responses ... looks like I'm not the only one with this opinion :D
--- Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos |
Sirial Soulfly
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:11:00 -
[134]
CCP completely destroying player history in one swipe.!
|
Protheroe
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:17:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer 1. Fix the to box 2. Fix multiple emails (pos) 3. Fix non recurrent settings 4. Sent items??? 5. (im adding this one) Read reports 6. (and this one) Multiple mails e.g. more than 1 receiver 7. Ability to have unread at the top and then not disappear into the list never to remember who sent you it. 8. Export of kill mails/Transfer to combat log 9. Storyline tracking system 10. Export mails full stop :p 11. Driving people insane / simplify 12. Longer unbroken mails
6. is already possible. |
Yoshi Takeda
Caldari Active Fusion
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 10:41:00 -
[136]
A good way to do this change be as suggested
use a Real Mailserver IMAP be excellent increasing the size and receiver list limits.
have a grace period till those who want to save their 1,001+ emails via an own mail client
purge the evemail DB as intended
and as the IGB was mentioned already - yeah remove it - it's worth is neglectable.
and a threaded view to the EveMail Client be really cool. next to an export feature for single or a full set of mails.
|
Aveng3X
Underworld Protection Agency
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 11:22:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Chribba EVEMail API before purge pls.
QFT! __________________________
Any views expressed are not necessarily the views of my corporation or alliance.
YARR! |
JadeO
Caldari W.A.S.P
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 11:38:00 -
[138]
IMAP access to EVE-mail would be awesome.
My question is: why is there no CCP replies to the recent performance/bug issues on QR 1.0? Will QR 1.01 patch fix these issues? ETA on that patch? ... |
Frances Pulver
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 11:39:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
so summing up
1. Fix the to box 2. Fix multiple emails (pos) 3. Fix non recurrent settings 4. Sent items??? 5. (im adding this one) Read reports 6. (and this one) Multiple mails e.g. more than 1 receiver 7. Ability to have unread at the top and then not disappear into the list never to remember who sent you it. 8. Export of kill mails/Transfer to combat log 9. Storyline tracking system 10. Export mails full stop :p 11. Driving people insane / simplify 12. Longer unbroken mails
I highlighted the bigguns ... AMEN to my pod brother! give us a nice, just-like-other-industry-standard-email system .. PLEASE!
You don't even need to think .. jsut load up AOL , Outlook, or any other common email client .. take the commoon features and POOF! EVEMAIL 2.0
And ... on a customer service point of view .. you would be WELL served by sending players all deleted evemails in a text file to their registerd email account .. at least they won't be deleted. |
Aleiceland
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 11:47:00 -
[140]
thats cool , all improvements are welcome . also , i hope you guys do something with the mac users unstable game with the new release and fix the bug in market that dont allow you to see the ammount of jumps.
|
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Aero Zolic
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 11:49:00 -
[141]
Yeah, delete old mails, all mails. TBH I don't hive as shhhhhhh.... As long as you can fix bigger problems.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 12:24:00 -
[142]
Or just upload your old concord mails to battleclinic and they will store it for you...
Btw LOL @ the one who said he didnt want to do that because people then could look which ships he uses, this is all at least a year old :/
Also LOL @ the one who said the current performance issues are the largest in 4 year. 15 months ago when i started playing, the eve cluster had random shut downs, 1 minute before the shut down the lag started, and then the server was offline. That was far worse than current situation. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
|
Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 12:44:00 -
[143]
Like everybody says: the mail system isn't that nice atm.
Make it more workable like outlook (Add mail from certain char to subfolders etc). Outbox/inbox, sort all mail by date, etc.
If you want to improved social aspects of the game, this would be a nice one. |
Gorikan
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:13:00 -
[144]
going back to sorting out current performance issues, one nerf/balance upgrade ie the web bonus on the paladin and the kronos being nerfed, was this wise? before myself and i'm sure other kronos pilots had little need for our drones, and could genraly web npc scramblers frigs and other frigs near by and blow them away, the down side of the paladin nerf is this and you may have guessed it is that all these pilots now need there drones again, infact they need there small drones, because of the other nerf to med drone tracking , hence more server calls, which must clock up to several million in a hour, not being a computer expert i dont know for sure but i would guess that. Would it not be wise to restore the paladin and kronos web bonus back to its 99% effectivness, after all these are exclusivly pve vessels due to there huge exspense, and dont really benefit or unblance pvp because no one is willing to lose such a exspensive asset. Please take this seriously and consider reconsider the nerf because i think you may had accidently not forseen that this would create greater server loads. |
Koda
Infestation. R.U.R.
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:15:00 -
[145]
So are we going to get an answer on the possibility of exporting our mails ? Or are we going to be required to threadnaught this thing and all threaten to cancel our accounts over it before we get any kind of response? really..some follow up posts should be mandatory after you do a blog. |
Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:20:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Arous Drephius
Originally by: CCP Wrangler In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
NOOOOOO! Don't nerf old CONCORD killmails!
Signed! |
Genwulf
Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:40:00 -
[147]
Any improvements to Eve Mail would be really appreciated. I would like to see a more manageable system.
|
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 13:46:00 -
[148]
There are more important things to fix than the damn mail system! I don't want to set the world on fire |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:05:00 -
[149]
One thing to reduce the dependency on corp evemails would be corporate channel MOTD. Long overdue.
Also, I understand the archaic R&D agent mail notification/missioning system when it was put into place. How about you simply make it that the R&D agent mission capability is reset each dt and do away with the eve mails.
Also, make NPC eve mails a totally separate tab in the mail box. This would make it much much easier to sort through any "automated" spam and have people focus on player to player interaction. |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:39:00 -
[150]
CCP will do anything to get that 2% enhancement in server performance that their server diagnostic tool with an error rate of 5% tells them that they can gain.
Secure container artwork and memorials are long dead and gone. Nothing will save your old EVE-mails I'm afraid. |
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Lord Annubis
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 14:43:00 -
[151]
Instead of playiong with mails why not focus on the unbearable memory leak instead. |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:24:00 -
[152]
Some of us actually like to keep old mails from back in the day. Like me. Like the old mails from old friends who have moved on etc.
Agree with all the points raised in this post |
Senai Navara
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 15:44:00 -
[153]
I wouldn't like to lose the old mails.
Isn't there another way? Why it is a problem?
Senai |
Mabari
Absolutely No Retreat Blade.
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 16:07:00 -
[154]
So many good reply's and not a single message from a CCP represantative. I know i just lost my killmails :(
greets Mabari
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Karash Amerius
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 16:23:00 -
[155]
Please do not delete old CONCORD emails. |
Redbad
Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 16:53:00 -
[156]
Export old mails to a seperate server and then kill the entire EVE-mail system so everyone is happy. EVE-mail is the most ugly, useless monster in EVE tbfh.
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Shaddn Arakh
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:15:00 -
[157]
Dear CCP please postpone the eve-mail patch until you are ready to introduce a brand new eve-mail system.
Eve-mail is really, really outdated even by year 2003 standards. Of course, you never designed it to be used often, extensively and by 250,000 users, not to mention zillions of npc-generated letters. But you really need eve-mail 2.0 now. Fixing small stuff quickly or just deleting eve-mails does not work.
See, replacing kill-mails with kill-log was GREAT idea. Useful, convenient, great. Do the same with other NPC mails. E.g. tired of zillions of POS mails? Introduce a 'POS monitor panel' to monitor fuel levels at any time in-game. Accesible from any station. Tired of insurance eve-mails? Replace them with a new tab in Insurance window -- "recent payouts" etc.
And, of course, of course make eve-mail in-game client based on 20 years of mankind's experience with email! Sent items, char search from "To:" line, multi-recepients (or better yet mailing lists!), ability to export, ability to forbid replying (for corp-wide announcements) etc. Introduce FOLDERS or even LABELS Introduce SEARCH Introduce inbox quotas if you like, or auto-delete option for npc emails.
But PLEASE think this through, design a solid contemporary wholesome eve-mail system, then introduce it. Call it an expansion if you like. Don't introduce hasty small changes that break more than they fix.
|
Tradimar
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:09:00 -
[158]
I would like to see folders in eve mail.
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Ravenja
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:05:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Shaddn Arakh Dear CCP please postpone the eve-mail patch until you are ready to introduce a brand new eve-mail system.
Eve-mail is really, really outdated even by year 2003 standards. Of course, you never designed it to be used often, extensively and by 250,000 users, not to mention zillions of npc-generated letters. But you really need eve-mail 2.0 now. Fixing small stuff quickly or just deleting eve-mails does not work.
See, replacing kill-mails with kill-log was GREAT idea. Useful, convenient, great. Do the same with other NPC mails. E.g. tired of zillions of POS mails? Introduce a 'POS monitor panel' to monitor fuel levels at any time in-game. Accesible from any station. Tired of insurance eve-mails? Replace them with a new tab in Insurance window -- "recent payouts" etc.
And, of course, of course make eve-mail in-game client based on 20 years of mankind's experience with email! Sent items, char search from "To:" line, multi-recepients (or better yet mailing lists!), ability to export, ability to forbid replying (for corp-wide announcements) etc. Introduce FOLDERS or even LABELS Introduce SEARCH Introduce inbox quotas if you like, or auto-delete option for npc emails.
But PLEASE think this through, design a solid contemporary wholesome eve-mail system, then introduce it. Call it an expansion if you like. Don't introduce hasty small changes that break more than they fix.
Full ACK!
And regarding the patch, I really hope the client side performance issue is getting addressed.
|
Annatar
The Galactic Empire Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:08:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Annatar on 19/11/2008 19:09:33 ***DON't delete OLD NPC generated Eve-mails***
Its not *only* the Concord mails ... i just would loose History and Even IF you really really need to delete them, give us the chance to save them, somehow.
All the very nice and shiny NPC mails like this:
2005.12.04 20:33 Our research has been fruitful. If you're interested, I believe we could have a patentable Hobgoblin II Blueprint. Contact me as soon as possible if you're interested.
would be gone.
Lets simply face it.
The today used Eve Mail System needs a revamp and its long overdue. This basic unstructured, sender-sorted, non-grouped, non-searchable piece of oldest CCP Programming skill could be a entertaining piece of History itself, especially if you looking into the Comments^^
Come on CCP give us a compleat new shiny Eve-mail system. Alliance supporting, Ingame role managed, with outgame export possebility.
You don't wanna patch in 2009 "walk in stations" and still have that crappy eve-mail-client, do you?
-------------------------------------------- Never argue with an Idoit, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
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Technomagez
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:29:00 -
[161]
Argh, don't touch any mails.... why do you suddenly come up with all these narrow minded changes?
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Gaelenus
Gallente Society of the Crimson Flame
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:44:00 -
[162]
there are so many things wrong with this announcement i cant even be bothered to complain any more
I guess ccp want to bludgeon thier customer base into submission |
Jonas Vinthyn
Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:49:00 -
[163]
The bad thing is if this actually goes live most people will hit reply on all those old mails and send them back to themselves, which will just make the issue even worse.
Bare minimum needed:
- SENT items folder - x2 - x3 more text in the body of a evemail.
As it stands many things need to be spread over multiple emails. That and I need to copy myself on a lot of important stuff to keep track of it which a sent items folder would eliminate. Do these two things and your mail sent every day would be halved instantly.
|
Ryushe
JuBa Corp Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:54:00 -
[164]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler To address performance issues in EVE... -snip- In addition to this all EVE Mails sent by NPCs that are older than 3 months will be deleted.
Wrangler, I've silently supported most of the changes you guys have pushed through to gain performance increases. It has made EVE a better game in the end. But the part I quoted is just plain sad I've carefully kept all my Concord mails and such since the beginning of 2004, since the way I see it they are part of my history in the game. I can see when I insured my first ship, or what it was called. I have a history there of the first guy that ever killed me in space and the location it happened, etc etc. All this will be lost now.
If anything please provide us with either an EVEMail API, that's able to grab the raw mails from the server, or provide us with some other tool to be able to save them.
This is one of the few times where I'm seriously wondering if you guys are trying to intentionally alienate your older player base. Us, who've stuck with you for a long time. Us, without whom you as a company would have had a much harder time surviving the first one or two years after launch.
Please, either reconsider this move or provide us with means to save those mails. To some of us, they mean a lot.
ps. I agree with most of the other posters here. By now it IS time to move on to a more modern day approach to evemail, if you guys expect us to keep using it.
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Sir Trump
Amarr Core Research Expedition
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 21:57:00 -
[165]
super busy in RL and don't have time to read all these post - my apologies if it's already been posted or killed...
A bit off topic it is but any chance we can get some folders within evemail? __________ Sir Trump Chief Executive Officer - C.O.R.E. |
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Industrial Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 22:05:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Wodanonline i am for any little thing that helps against lag keep it up!
Quick! Remove all players!
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Xunyl Rilynara
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 22:24:00 -
[167]
How about adding the ability to download emails to players computers? That way no email need be deleted unless the player so choses.
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 22:59:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab 1 Throw out the old mail code. 2 Introduce a real email server and add a simple IMAP client to EVE. 3 ??? 4 Profit
I fixed your system for you.... It should actually read:
1 Throw out the old mail code. 2 Introduce a real email server and add a simple IMAP client to EVE. 3 Introduce SPAMMing issues as botnets harvest Millions of eve email addresses (that can now be read by imap servers and Botnets alike....) 4 Introduce LAG and SPAM issues and keylogging and other emails from the now propogated Eve domain name that slow down Clients and servers alike 5 ??? 6.. Lose...
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 23:01:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Shaddn Arakh Dear CCP <SNIP> E.g. tired of zillions of POS mails? Introduce a 'POS monitor panel' to monitor fuel levels at any time in-game. Accesible from any station. Tired of insurance eve-mails? Replace them with a new tab in Insurance window -- "recent payouts" etc. <SNIP>
THIS = WIN!!! |
Carl Druffee
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 23:11:00 -
[170]
Again ?!?
Is CCP TRYING to go down burning ??
I wonder what the next nerf will be...
Can we get a long-term plan for what to expect instead of a one-day notice every time ???? |
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Neth'Rae
Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 23:48:00 -
[171]
If CCP is gonna nerf stuff why not improve some stuff aswell to avoid all the forum-rage?
I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. |
General Xenophon
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:11:00 -
[172]
Edited by: General Xenophon on 20/11/2008 00:14:59 And this will help why??? ....
This is really more of a nuisance than it will be a help.
Between pos mail, ingame mails, old treasured killmails, let alone for those who run an alliance, this idea is not really that helpful. It's just a new way for being to be malicious. Spam mailing someone until they can't get any more mails. Yea you can block people from mailing you, but not if 500 different people send you eve mails.
What about pos spam for pos under attack?
And what happens to the 1001th eve mail? Is it just lost?
Isn't this like replacing the door handle of a totaled car and saying it will help? |
Benedic
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:18:00 -
[173]
I'm sure this change will greatly reduce lag for all, just like the bio nerfs. Maybe you could introduce a way to save all our mails before you go wily nilly deleting them. I'd love to save all my old concord mails spread across several accounts.
Funny that this gets a stickied thread in general (because no one would read it in the eve information portal) but nary a peep (even when announced) of the ghost training changes in general.
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jongalt
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:27:00 -
[174]
whats with all the sentimentality over "old" email?
---
ccp really should update the email component, though.
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Jade Blackwind
Federal Defence Union
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:30:00 -
[175]
Quote: list of fixes that should be taking place.
1. stopping ships becoming invisible after jumping, undocking or just being online an hour. 2. stop the grouped weapons icon flashing for no god dam reason. 3. stop icons in the pos prosessing screen jumping about when you offline silos. 4. stop double entries in the overview and on scanner 5. fix teh dam memory leak, after an hour or so it becomes a lag fest 6. stop pos's spamming 3 mails per hour
This, please. |
Viqer Fell
Minmatar When Hippo Attacks Go Wrong
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 00:55:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/11/2008 00:54:57 Military experts are calling this a Pile of Sh*te sorry I mean a cynosaural field.
|
Fasaius
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 01:12:00 -
[177]
I agree it would be much better to just add the feature to evemail that allows us to save mail we wanna keep. Every friggin e-mail system on earth allows you to do this. |
Night Tripper
Es and Whizz
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 01:14:00 -
[178]
What you mean is, I've kept all my evemails for the last 5 years in the hope that CCP would actually make a half decent evemail client, instead of that hell hole in the sky that we currently have - for absolutely nothing. I was looking forward to finally being able to read some old gems, with a proper SEARCH and SORT function!
Jesus Christ, is not even a sort by date function asking too much? |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 01:36:00 -
[179]
quit deleting stuff. I'm still torked off that you deleted 20,000+ bookmarks that I paid my hard earned isk for! Now you want to take away my old kill mails? and my old skill completion mails? In 5 years it might be a chuckle to go back and see how I trained my skills in 2005... meh.
But then again you deleted the anchored cans in New Eden, which was a truly player-made record of history.
Shame on you CCP. Your shortsightedness makes puppies sad
|
Fyrr Deerdan
Caldari Envoy Corps
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 02:05:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka Some of us actually like to keep old mails from back in the day. Like me. Like the old mails from old friends who have moved on etc.
Agree with all the points raised in this post
These are very good points, but... they're not talking about deleting friends' mail, but NPCs' mail. Unless you befreiended NPCs ?! ;)
|
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evilphoenix
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:27:00 -
[181]
I wish for better eve mail features, not removing old eve mails. |
CHAOS100
Black Plague.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 04:42:00 -
[182]
Dont delete our killmails god damnit |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.20 06:40:00 -
[183]
Edited by: techzer0 on 20/11/2008 06:40:42
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer
Originally by: Gone'Postal Didn't you try this with Bookmarks already.
they removed all bookmarks within a certain distance of stations and gates ages back and replaced it with warp to 0
Yes, then everyone went and remade all of their bookmarks that got deleted, minus the instas (which I still have a bunch of)
So it kinda failed anyhow
And I like my killmails... DON'T DELETE THEM!!!! ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.20 09:14:00 -
[184]
Thank you CSM for dealing with the pressing issue of having over 1000 mails instead of other junk issues like FW improvements, POS warfare, NPC corp immunity, and fixing low sec.
Please keep pointing out the stoopid, worthless CSM "improvements" so we can all point and laugh at them. |
Heroldyn
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Posted - 2008.11.20 09:19:00 -
[185]
ok, i did not read the whole thing, but 2 questions:
1) Say i got 1000 Evemails and then i get sent 5 additional evemails. Will i be receiving the 5 evemails that were sent to me, after i deleted 5 old evemails ? In other words are new emails deleted or not fetched once the inbox got more than 1000 ?
2) Does the sender get a notification when i didnt recv his evemail because my inbox being full ?
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.11.20 09:38:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Heroldyn ok, i did not read
No you did not, obviously.
Quote: Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails.
So inbox is full no new will be added until you delete one or more of the existing emails.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
Clear Skies - an EVE vid with a difference.
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2008.11.20 10:14:00 -
[187]
EVEMail API before purge pls.
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Kashimir
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Posted - 2008.11.20 11:30:00 -
[188]
Wait what... Where did you guys suddenly get an idea of getting an separate EveMail client? Also what in the world does this have to do with Pos battles and lag? Did you guys ever guess that CCP actually have seperate divisions working on different issues?
.....
Anyway, I really think that merging the "old killmail system" with the "new combat log system" before the purge, would be a great idea IF it can be done relatively easily.
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Kashimir
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Posted - 2008.11.20 11:36:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Maria Kalista
No you did not, obviously.
Quote: Mail number 1001 and beyond will not be fetched, whether it has been read or not. To gain access to those EVE Mails, you must delete newer EVE mails.
So inbox is full no new will be added until you delete one or more of the existing emails.
Gah... It actually says ", you must delete NEWER EVE mails." Meaning that the newest mail is Mail number 1 and the oldest possible to view is the mail number 1000... So, let's say you have 1000 mails and you get 5 new ones, the 5 oldest mails will disappear and you'd have to delete mails to make 'em reappear. Correct me If I'm wrong.
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ZiggyMeister
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Posted - 2008.11.20 12:36:00 -
[190]
It would be very nice to have a new folder called "SENT" like in real life e-mails. That way one would stop having the need of sending the mails also to himself, in order to be able to keep track of all the mails he/she may have sent in the past.
This really helps when someone says he never received a mail you sent, or that you never said what you are saying at that moment...
I hope the Devs read my post and at least take it into account.
Thanks.
Best Regards, ZiggyMeister |
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.20 12:45:00 -
[191]
Am hoping that removing old clutter will make room for new evemail improvements. A simple sent box and being allowed to write one long message which would be sent as multiple parts (like SMS) are things I'd much like to see added.
Better go backup that nice CONCORD mail from getting a ship restored before it goes poof |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:55:00 -
[192]
After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Kashimir
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Posted - 2008.11.20 15:08:00 -
[193]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
Thank you for listening the ignorant masses :)
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.11.20 15:26:00 -
[194]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
Wrangler I take back all the mean things I said about you
It is nice to see CCP listenning ^_^ |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.11.20 15:45:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 20/11/2008 15:46:44
Originally by: Shaddn Arakh See, replacing kill-mails with kill-log was GREAT idea. Useful, convenient, great. Do the same with other NPC mails. E.g. tired of zillions of POS mails? Introduce a 'POS monitor panel' to monitor fuel levels at any time in-game.
Please yes, but do it in the right way! Don't just introduce a pos-panel for fuel but instead rework the whole pos-ui (currently there is no dedicated pos ui, only assets-in-space tab in corp ui) as suggested by me here.
Why introducing tech 3 (though it is nifty and cool) while the most basic things like mail, pos and corp ui are completely borked? Please work on fixing/improving the existing unfinished things also! Even though it might be boring work and won't give much shiny marketing news, it still is so very important in the long run!
EDIT: Just read the news about postponing the kill-mail deleting, great! Thaaaaaaaanks But please do not forget to really consider all the other mentioned stuff. Oh, and forums ate my previous post.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:30:00 -
[196]
Any chance of adding them to the API, so we can easily just store them ourselves locally and take that load off the server ;) _____________________________
░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░ |
The Riff
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:53:00 -
[197]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
Any discussion on POS sending the same mail 3 times every hour when they are running low?
A comment on this would be appreciated.
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gordon861
Minmatar PROGENITOR CORPORATION Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.20 17:12:00 -
[198]
Just fix the email system fully :
1. Allow us to export emails to an external format of some sort. 2. Give us a sent items facility.
If you do these people delete their old mails and it'll stop them sending copies to themselves so they know what they have sent out before.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donĘt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe. |
Kewne Kerpwn
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:21:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Kewne Kerpwn on 20/11/2008 18:21:38 when you unsubscribe from the game all your mails get deleted anyway! even if you come back!
I wish the mail system could be 1) managed out of game (esp for work people) and 2) much easier managed, if you have the resources to assign someone to this.
I hate using eve-mail because its simply so clunky |
Lukas Rox
Torchwood Archive
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Posted - 2008.11.20 19:32:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Kewne Kerpwn Edited by: Kewne Kerpwn on 20/11/2008 18:21:38 when you unsubscribe from the game all your mails get deleted anyway! even if you come back!
I wish the mail system could be 1) managed out of game (esp for work people) and 2) much easier managed, if you have the resources to assign someone to this.
I hate using eve-mail because its simply so clunky
1. READ ONLY Api for evemail would be really welcome. I am although afraid, that if it was Read/Write functionality, it would be immediately exploited by isk spammers.
2. /signed, current evemail system is a bit rusty and is far from what normal e-mail is about. a. add CC field b. add sent mails box c. allow multiple recipients in "to" and "cc" fields d. allow longer mails e. fetch messages on demand (ie. when you click them) just like in normal webmail interface. --- Visit in game for nice items links http://eve.interkam.pl/eveships
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.20 21:12:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Winterblink If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
This!
I have tons of old mails lying around as "memory" of what happened and who I talked to.
I've been hoping for ages for an EVE API to access mails. As soon as I can dump them out I'll happily delete every mail I get.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.11.21 00:19:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Lukas Rox 1. READ ONLY Api for evemail would be really welcome. I am although afraid, that if it was Read/Write functionality, it would be immediately exploited by isk spammers.
Isk sellers already use the ingame eve-mail to spam, and they already have hacked game clients to send mass eve-mails automatically. Planning anything around them isn't really worthwhile as you will only affect real players.
That said, at this stage read-only is in the spirit of the API. I do get the feeling that it may change *somewhat*. _____________________________
░▒▓ ORCAs Available Early and Cheap ▓▒░ |
Times Drift
Caldari Red Mercury Incorporated Equilibrium.
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Posted - 2008.11.21 07:10:00 -
[203]
Grrrr Leave my kill mails alone Been saving them for a long while |
Karille
Gallente Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.21 08:35:00 -
[204]
Based on their presentation at fan fest I'd say it look like they ARE working on a new system for eve mail to integrate with their eve social networking thing. From what i saw they're planning out of game access for mail, contracts, and eve voice. I can't remember if it included the market though.
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Jascal
Nova-Tek Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.11.21 20:51:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Winterblink If we had the ability to extract our evemails you'd see mass voluntary deletions overnight.
This!
I have tons of old mails lying around as "memory" of what happened and who I talked to.
I've been hoping for ages for an EVE API to access mails. As soon as I can dump them out I'll happily delete every mail I get.
Yes, that. Just that one addition would make all of the other evemail 'fixes' moot. Let us export the damn mail and be done with the whole issue.
Do you devs realize this? |
Athlonman
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2008.11.21 21:47:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Athlonman on 21/11/2008 21:53:29 Edited by: Athlonman on 21/11/2008 21:47:38
Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer Edited by: Sargeant HAmmer on 18/11/2008 18:41:20
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Dont freaking touch concord mails
they should migrate them to the kill combat log system
(i think its some genius's idea to "upgrade" systems that work at the mo)
I vote for this too...I would love to kill off these old concord mails at some point...moving them to the kill log system would be perfect... |
sleep kever
Caldari Melksnor Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.21 23:15:00 -
[207]
Sooo, is this still planned or what? It isn't in the QR 1.0.1 patchnotes...
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Albion26
Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.11.22 03:54:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Albion26 on 22/11/2008 03:54:02
Originally by: sleep kever Sooo, is this still planned or what? It isn't in the QR 1.0.1 patchnotes...
The patch this weekend only features the "performance" aspects of QR 1.0.1 ... so I expect the evemail changes to come in the "real" QR 1.0.1 due in a couple of weeks.
Unless it's been canned already ...
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2008.11.22 07:25:00 -
[209]
Thank you for preserving a bit of the eve-history that is left.
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David Grogan
Gallente Crusaders of the Darkstar Freedom Force.
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Posted - 2008.11.22 11:50:00 -
[210]
Edited by: David Grogan on 22/11/2008 11:51:26 Edited by: David Grogan on 22/11/2008 11:50:30 perhaps an ability to save your eve mails to a file stored locally on a player's pc which could be accessed by mozilla thunderbird or open office or linux and mac equiv would good
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Eraggan Sadarr
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.22 12:13:00 -
[211]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
You really should think about making an export feature before you start deleting. I sometimes use those mails to go back and remember the past three years. I would really be a shame to remove that kind of history and not i line with your previous statements on preservation of eve history. Please help all us sentimental players by making an export feature. you already have the marketlog export, so just do a quick and dirty mail export.
Eve Market Scanner - Marketlog comparisons |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.22 13:06:00 -
[212]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months
I know this is a rare thing for me to say but:
THANKS FOR LISTENING CCP --
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.22 13:20:00 -
[213]
Originally by: David Grogan Edited by: David Grogan on 22/11/2008 11:51:26 Edited by: David Grogan on 22/11/2008 11:50:30 perhaps an ability to save your eve mails to a file stored locally on a player's pc which could be accessed by mozilla thunderbird or open office or linux and mac equiv would good
Here's how I see it. I may be totally wrong but anyway.
Probably the only thing Evemail shares with e-mail is the name. There is no mail protocol stack, mail headers and the likes, but an Evemail is probably no more than a database table entry thats polled by, or pushed to, the client.
However, one COULD expose that through an IMAP client OR make it available as a downloadable file for e.g. Thunderbird nevertheless. You'd have to export the database stuff into something like mbox format (which is very straight-forward) so people could open it in Thunderbird, or you could expose that through an IMAP server. You'd not need a domain name for that, just an IP, and half a day of coding (at least if you're not aiming for real time).
But for IMAP to be really useful and have the ability to send eve mails out of game, then you'd need a proper mail server, email addresses like [email protected], mail servers, mail server admins etc - thats a major addition that would be awesome but I don't think CCP will see that as worth the investment (I know I likely wouldn't).
So while I agree that an export is needed before stuff is deleted, they might as well hack something into the client to export the stuff into CSV (or mbox) format, seems like the most painless route (not considering the database burst load of someone polling thousands of mails at once for export; but then again those bursts seem to be happening in the current implementation anyway).
Thats my $0.02 cents. --
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.11.22 14:10:00 -
[214]
just applied the patch and got this message :
"installation has been completed but one or more updated files were locked . you will have to restart your computer before the changes can take effect .
would you like to restart your computer now ? "
anyone else got that ?
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.11.22 15:08:00 -
[215]
Just to clarify, this EVE Mail change will come in the next patch which will likely be Quantum Rise 1.0.2, it will not be in Quantum Rise 1.0.1 as that patch got split up.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2008.11.22 15:09:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Ghost Goat Edited by: Ghost Goat on 22/11/2008 14:31:23 Edited by: Ghost Goat on 22/11/2008 14:30:11 just applied the patch and got this message :
"installation has been completed but one or more updated files were locked . you will have to restart your computer before the changes can take effect .
would you like to restart your computer now ? "
anyone else got that ?
update
it seems what caused this was a "ghost" EVEFILE.exe running in the back round , that refused to actually shut down, although it wasn't indicated that its still running anywhere beside the task bar .
after restarting and trying to open eve i got error msg :
" moved c:\program files2\ccp\eve\bin\\RTA29900 to c:\doucuments and setting\me\local setting\temp\eve76d0.tmp\RTA29900
moved c:\program files2\ccp\eve\bin\\RTB29900 to c:\doucuments and setting\me\local setting\temp\eve76d0.tmp\RTB29900 "
and then another one saying blue.dll and trinty dll are corrupted
and now when i try to open eve i get the error :
" cant locate blue.dll reinstalling should solve the issue "
great ...
We're looking into it, please keep an eye on this thread for more information as it becomes available.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Email
Reducing lag in EVE: The Jita Conundrum - StacklessIO or: How We Reduced Lag - Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On - EVE64 - My node was equipped with the following... |
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Gilgamoth
Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:11:00 -
[217]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After reading your comments and discussing it internally we decided to exclude CONCORD EVE Mails from deleting NPC EVE Mails older than 3 months, they will still be subject to the fetching 1000 EVE Mails limit so if you have CONCORD EVE Mails going back further than your last 1000 EVE Mails you will have to delete newer EVE Mails to gain access to them.
Thanks for this Wrangler. Any chance we can get existing Concord Kill mails into the Kill Log instead then we can clear down more eve-mails.
Regards,
Gil
Live on Eden Underground Radio every Wednesday 19:00 - 21:00 GMT. |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.23 16:13:00 -
[218]
It would be nice to be able to store these elsewhere, even clientside since they are only of sentimental value to the players. Have a Concord mail section as a seperate window so any Concord evemails are sent there instead of via the normal evemail system. This can easily be saved clientside to save server database issues.
Personally, as far as evemails are concerned, I can't see a why this sort of information can't be saved clientside to take them off the server completely. If they can be exported, even with a seperate application to an Access database file, it would allow those of us who want to save certain evemails to keep even the very old stuff safe.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.24 09:20:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Eraggan Sadarr You really should think about making an export feature before you start deleting. I sometimes use those mails to go back and remember the past three years. I would really be a shame to remove that kind of history and not i line with your previous statements on preservation of eve history. Please help all us sentimental players by making an export feature. you already have the marketlog export, so just do a quick and dirty mail export.
This. -
DesuSigs |
Kematian
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Posted - 2008.11.25 07:55:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Eraggan Sadarr You really should think about making an export feature before you start deleting. I sometimes use those mails to go back and remember the past three years. I would really be a shame to remove that kind of history and not i line with your previous statements on preservation of eve history. Please help all us sentimental players by making an export feature. you already have the marketlog export, so just do a quick and dirty mail export.
This.
Thirded
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Pypok
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.25 16:54:00 -
[221]
Just to clarify,
There will not be a fix to the horrible eve-mail system? We will not be able to create categories for mails? The "sort by unread" will still be completely useless because it doesn't function properly? There will not be a "sort by Date" function? We will still need to send 25 messages because eve-mail has a character size limit? We will not be getting a CC function? We will not be getting a header section in eve mail so we can see who the mail is from and to whom it was sent (if more then 1 person) We will not be getting an auto complete name based on address book? =============================
Just to clarify, we are not getting anything actually useful?
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Karille
Gallente Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:15:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Pypok Just to clarify,
There will not be a fix to the horrible eve-mail system? We will not be able to create categories for mails? The "sort by unread" will still be completely useless because it doesn't function properly? There will not be a "sort by Date" function? We will still need to send 25 messages because eve-mail has a character size limit? We will not be getting a CC function? We will not be getting a header section in eve mail so we can see who the mail is from and to whom it was sent (if more then 1 person) We will not be getting an auto complete name based on address book? =============================
Just to clarify, we are not getting anything actually useful?
Confirming i am the fail in eve-mail.
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John McDuff
Caldari Jovian Labs Jovian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.12.02 09:21:00 -
[223]
Wrangler I understand that all shortcomings to the evemail system mentioned here are besides the point of this thread. But since you are evidently reading this from time to time could you at least mention if it is looked at at all. Are there any changes on the drawingboard? It truly is, and has been for 5 years, a disastrous tool in its current form.
--- "Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst" Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:10:00 -
[224]
Originally by: John McDuff Wrangler I understand that all shortcomings to the evemail system mentioned here are besides the point of this thread. But since you are evidently reading this from time to time could you at least mention if it is looked at at all. Are there any changes on the drawingboard? It truly is, and has been for 5 years, a disastrous tool in its current form.
QFT,
+A few posts up there is some damn good items to add to the evemail system.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
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