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Elan Tari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:23:00 -
[1]
I am jet-can mining in a belt. A badger comes along, gets near my can and kicks out a can of its own. then leaves. A corp mate of the badger guy in a Raven shows up. A minute later the escape pod of the badger owner shows up and moves all my ore to his can. Then leaves. 15 min later the badger comes back and empties his can.
As i understand the "rules" - 1) i cannot terminate the pod or i will be concorded. 2) I cannot take from his can or the Raven will terminate me. 3) When the timer expires the original "perp" can empty his can with impunity.
Don't get me wrong - i am not complaining about losing the ORE, for piracy in high-sec, while inconvenient, keeps the game interesting and exciting. What I am trying to confirm - Is "rule" 1 correct? If the pod is invulnerable (except for a suicide-gank) that leaves the non-pirate in a indefensible and very frustrated position. If, on the other hand, there is no penalty for podding a pirate, then I am ok, and will open fire in the future. Would someone please enlighten me...thanks. |
Snasty
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:25:00 -
[2]
Hmm, at first read that does indeed look like the perfect steal..! |
Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:29:00 -
[3]
Did the pod turn flashy red when he stole the ore? I've never encountered this so I actually have no idea what the rules are on this one.
Anyone feel like testing? |
Irma Phelbs
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Posted - 2008.11.18 18:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Irma Phelbs on 18/11/2008 18:32:37
Originally by: Elan Tari I am jet-can mining in a belt. A badger comes along, gets near my can and kicks out a can of its own. then leaves. A corp mate of the badger guy in a Raven shows up. A minute later the escape pod of the badger owner shows up and moves all my ore to his can. Then leaves. 15 min later the badger comes back and empties his can.
As i understand the "rules" - 1) i cannot terminate the pod or i will be concorded. 2) I cannot take from his can or the Raven will terminate me. 3) When the timer expires the original "perp" can empty his can with impunity.
Don't get me wrong - i am not complaining about losing the ORE, for piracy in high-sec, while inconvenient, keeps the game interesting and exciting. What I am trying to confirm - Is "rule" 1 correct? If the pod is invulnerable (except for a suicide-gank) that leaves the non-pirate in a indefensible and very frustrated position. If, on the other hand, there is no penalty for podding a pirate, then I am ok, and will open fire in the future. Would someone please enlighten me...thanks.
Looks like being able to move stuff from can to can with your pod is a new "feature", suggesting petitioning and bug reporting. Anyway before people would use a noob ship or shuttle, so you would not have popped anything of value.
Dunno if it is still true, but you could scramble the pod. CONCORD won't (or didn't use to) come till the pod pops, so you could scramble aggressed pods at leisure, even get them in hull, without sec hot or CONCORD intervention as long as you left a tiny bit. So scram it, keep at range, and go afk a few hours, he can only get out by logoffsky or self destruct (actually maybe he could board a ship if someone brought him one).
Or you could have friends with RR on standby, steal back and pop the Raven once it aggro. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:14:00 -
[5]
It's a difficult way of doing things but yes, it's possible. If someone comes in a big slowass ship to flip your can I do hope you joined a proper corp so you can destroy his ship. You can easily flip someone's can even if several people have you targeted, unless one of them actually knows what you're about to do and prevents it.
Best way to do it is flip in a frigate with the hauler sitting next to the can to swipe it. Thing is ofcourse, do you even WANT to pick up the ore... personally I see the (now my) ore as an investment , hoping that they'll put in effort to get it back.
On the idea above of scrambling a pod and then going afk, that'll get you in trouble in GM's. You are ofcourse allowed to hold a target to either destroy or ransom it, but keeping it stuck with the obvious intention of just having it sit there is not allowed.
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Eschiava Q
Minmatar Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:31:00 -
[6]
The scenario presented by the OP does sound a little exploity on first reading, but really, it's just a very slow and inefficient way of doing something I do from time to time.
I get into a mammoth with 2 wcs, 2 cargo expanders, and as much shield tank as I can fit. I fly into a belt, approach a can, and move it directly into my cargo hold, then warp off. If the victim does nothing, I get the ore. If the victim shoots at me I get the ore and a blinky red target for the next 15 minutes.
So, even if the scenario could be clased an exploit, if it were reported the GM's might get a good laugh out of it that the perps couldn't think of a better way to steal ore.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.18 19:34:00 -
[7]
Having a corpmate guard your can so no one steals it isn't an exploit... carebears do it all the time --------------------- It's me! Your lovable forum warrior!!! |
JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:28:00 -
[8]
The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
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Dyaven
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: JafoPBCFR The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
AFAIK you can never shoot a pod in hisec without being Concorded unless it's a war target, even if they canflipped you.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:26:00 -
[10]
Personally... it should be labeled an exploit.
If your in your pod... the only thing you should have the ability to do is fly in... fly out..warp away...and dock with a ship...
Can tipping in a pod is not something I'd like to see. Should turn it in as an exploit. |
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Elan Tari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:34:00 -
[11]
To answer some of the questions:
Khandara: i don't think it turned bliky red...but i will test tonight. Irma: I will test the scram tonight also...And yes, popping the Raven has been done in the past..thanks. Tzar'rim: One of the things that needs to be practiced would be to stop the "can-flipper" if they are in any type of ship. Of course, in this case the flipper was a pod. Eschiava: I guess the defense against the mammoth would be to scram it (if possible) and bring in a fleet to "remove" the "blinky red" from its icon (or maybe that is remove the ship from the "blinky red"). That is one of the reasons i am sure that can-flippers etc. do it. the excitement of getting away with something and the obvious enjoyment of doing PvP in hi-sec. I have no problem with that if there are risks / gains possible on both sides. A game is not a game unless it is possible for either side to win by having a better strategy and executing it better than the other... Intense: Don't have a problem with the "Cover". Just have a problem with the seemingly invulnerability of the flipper. I always have the choice of flipping back the ore, with the obvious risks (and fun) involved. JafoP8CFR: If the pod is "invulnerable" the game is highly skewed in favor of the griefer. Whether it is possible to terminate the pod or not is irrelavent, as long as there is a reasonable chance to "punish" the offender, if the miner is either lucky or good, or both.
Thank you all for your comments...i will test some of these things out and will surely take some lumps from concord in the bargain. |
Irma Phelbs
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: JafoPBCFR The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
AFAIK you can never shoot a pod in hisec without being Concorded unless it's a war target, even if they canflipped you.
In my experience you can shoot an aggressed pod without concord coming for you, just not pop it. Have ransomed pods for freedom of movement in the past. However the behavior is not documented (hell the whole game isn't) so this is the kind of thing worth checking after each patch. |
Horatio Nately
Caldari 808 Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Horatio Nately on 18/11/2008 22:37:10
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: JafoPBCFR The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
AFAIK you can never shoot a pod in hisec without being Concorded unless it's a war target, even if they canflipped you.
This.
Not a bad idea, although I'll probably avoid doing it myself since I have a reasonable enough bounty to tempt people
edit: cant type today ---------------------------------------
CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp
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Dez Affinity
Evocati.
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Irma Phelbs
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: JafoPBCFR The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
AFAIK you can never shoot a pod in hisec without being Concorded unless it's a war target, even if they canflipped you.
In my experience you can shoot an aggressed pod without concord coming for you, just not pop it. Have ransomed pods for freedom of movement in the past. However the behavior is not documented (hell the whole game isn't) so this is the kind of thing worth checking after each patch.
C |
Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.18 23:34:00 -
[15]
You may try to petition this and see if they consider it an exploit.
However consider this: 1) the raven flips you. 2) the badger then takes from the raven's can.
What would be different (assuming you flip back)?
basically 2 things: 1) raven gets first volley vs. you get first volley. Not really that much of a difference if you target the raven before flipping. Unless you end up exploding a fraction of a second earlier than the raven or you think you can 1shot the raven. 2) pod maybe needs few seconds less time to fly to station/safespot and come back with a PvP vessel than the badger. Also probably not making that much of a difference.
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.19 00:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Irma Phelbs
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: JafoPBCFR The Question that plagues me is. Why doit in a pod in the first place?
AFAIK you can never shoot a pod in hisec without being Concorded unless it's a war target, even if they canflipped you.
In my experience you can shoot an aggressed pod without concord coming for you, just not pop it. Have ransomed pods for freedom of movement in the past. However the behavior is not documented (hell the whole game isn't) so this is the kind of thing worth checking after each patch.
confirming this was possible in the past and very well still could be.
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Avan Sercedos
Shockworks
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Posted - 2008.11.19 00:46:00 -
[17]
Badgers are evil like dat
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Iridius Fervus
Amarr Intergalactic Combined Technologies The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2008.11.19 00:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tzar'rim It's a difficult way of doing things but yes, it's possible. If someone comes in a big slowass ship to flip your can I do hope you joined a proper corp so you can destroy his ship. You can easily flip someone's can even if several people have you targeted, unless one of them actually knows what you're about to do and prevents it.
Best way to do it is flip in a frigate with the hauler sitting next to the can to swipe it. Thing is ofcourse, do you even WANT to pick up the ore... personally I see the (now my) ore as an investment , hoping that they'll put in effort to get it back.
On the idea above of scrambling a pod and then going afk, that'll get you in trouble in GM's. You are ofcourse allowed to hold a target to either destroy or ransom it, but keeping it stuck with the obvious intention of just having it sit there is not allowed.
Hmmm well look who it is. Remember just the other day when you tried to flip my can and I got my ore back? That was good fun. We should do it again sometime. Its nice to see a griefer have his time wasted by a simple mining corp. Even though you were there we were still able to move a nice amount of ore from one ship to another. Remember who provides your ship, us 'drones'. Look forward to seeing you in Seil again. Maybe this time you'll get it right and actually get a kill off instead of *****-footing around. Or maybe you'll just fly around an empty can again. Who knows? Maybe your corp does, seeing how their motto is "Were good at what we do." Yet you couldnt steal 29k veldspar. Tsk tsk. |
Elan Tari
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Posted - 2008.11.19 00:50:00 -
[19]
Testing complete
1. the pod cannot move items from one can to another - no exploit 2. pod is NOT blinky red 3. targeting the pod and then trying to warp scramble you gives you the concord destroy your ship warning.
So, this means you can flip a can and then come back in your pod to look around without danger...
I didn't actually turn on the scram since i had been concorded earlier this week after getting the same message. "burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me." so it may still be possible to scram one.
So, it looks like i just have to get better scramming the badger. thanks everyone for your comments. |
Mankirks Wife
Caldari Space Furry Association
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Posted - 2008.11.19 09:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 19/11/2008 09:51:20 That sounds... way more complicated that it needs to be, exploit or not.
The undefendable can flip is as follows:
1) Char A in a shuttle sees a can and BMs it 2) Char A warps out of the belt 3) Char A warps to the can at 0, then Char B, who is a corpmate of Char A, warps to Char A at 10kms 4) Char A flips the can before the miner can get past the 'oh ****' phase and try to take some ore out of his can. 5) Char B immediately tractors the can away from the miner in a hauler and empties it. 6) Go back 1 and repeat until you get bored. |
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Oskar LeDouchette
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Posted - 2008.11.19 10:15:00 -
[21]
1. trial account 2. suicide gank the pod 3. ??? 4. profit |
Irma Phelbs
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Posted - 2008.11.19 10:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Elan Tari Testing complete 3. targeting the pod and then trying to warp scramble you gives you the concord destroy your ship warning.
So, this means you can flip a can and then come back in your pod to look around without danger...
I didn't actually turn on the scram since i had been concorded earlier this week after getting the same message. "burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me." so it may still be possible to scram one.
Sorry should have been more precise, you have to go through the warning, CONCORD just doesn't spawn until the pod is destroyed. |
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