Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 10:29:00 -
[1]
Went over last 5-6 pages in here and did not notice threads dedicated to Golem fittings after quantum rise patch. Altho there has been some discussion in other threads about them ofc. Anyway - now that dust has somewhat settled and people had time to adjust to changes what would be the new 'best' setup for missionrunning in Golem. Still torpedoes ? Same permatanking setup as before patch ?
I myself have went over several iterations over past days and have ended with following
Hi: 4x CN cruise launcher (CN ammo), Auto Targeter II, Small Tractor Beam, Large Shield Transporter II Med: CN Large booster, 3x CN (specific) hardener, Shield Boost Amp II, 2x PWNAGE painter Low: 4x CN BCU Rigs & Drones: 2x Rigor Catalyst I, 5x Light T2 combat, 5x Medium T2 combat drones.
I must say, that I did try to pull off 'permatanking' with rigor rigs after the patch but failed to maintain enough effectivity to justify that sacrifice for that little added comfort. Had to abandom that goal after few days of tinkering and focused more on damage part. It has enough tank that can last 3 (with 3x Invul II) to 3.5 (with 3x CN hardener) minutes. With that setup I can get same or in some cases few minutes faster missionrunning speeds than I did with 'permatanking' Golem before patch. So what is your experience post patch ?
|
slothe
Caldari Murky Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 10:34:00 -
[2]
i use exactly the same torp setup as before the patch.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 11:02:00 -
[3]
I'm fairly sure that Rigour rigs don't affect unguided missiles.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 12:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gypsio III I'm fairly sure that Rigour rigs don't affect unguided missiles.
well luckily he is using cruise missiles then
|
syko GSXR
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 13:24:00 -
[5]
I used same torp set up i did befor patch with perma running faction lrg booster and a painter. yeah does take a bit longer and some of the frigs are a pain in the ass but nots basical agro everything anf kill cruisers and up with torps as the approch and use drone to get frigs.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 14:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Gypsio III I'm fairly sure that Rigour rigs don't affect unguided missiles.
well luckily he is using cruise missiles then
Hmmm. So he is. Well, all is good then, apart from my eyesight, it seems.
|
Leobon
Gallente Idiots In Spaceships
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:00:00 -
[7]
Thought golems were better with torps b/c cruise die from defenders?
|
Jackal79
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jackal79 on 22/11/2008 18:04:20 Golems are a novelty ship and have absolutely no more utility than a raven because CCP pre-nerfed the **** out of it (as they have for any other new ship or mod in the last 2 years). Your best fitting for it is to fit it into the recycling center in the station and do something with the minerals.
|
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 18:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Leobon Thought golems were better with torps b/c cruise die from defenders?
While it is true that it will take 3 defenders to kill torp and cruise do die to one of those it is somewhat situational if in real mission torps offer better performance than cruise. Was so even before patch and as I understand they were hit harder than cruise in last patch.
Originally by: Jackal79
Golems are a novelty ship and have absolutely no more utility than a raven because CCP pre-nerfed the **** out of it (as they have for any other new ship or mod in the last 2 years). Your best fitting for it is to fit it into the recycling center in the station and do something with the minerals.
Their novelty has weared off a while ago by now. Has several bonuses regular Raven does not have, like painter, tractor beam and even explosion velocity that is somewhat useful after patch. Don't like it - nobody is forcing you to use it. If you do then it does offer better performance than regular Raven in PvE. I would go even as far as to claim that Golem is now approx as effective in PvE than CNR.
|
WishBlade
Caldari Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 19:10:00 -
[10]
I fly the same cruise fit, as before. Now it's even better, though, cause the weapon grouping fixed the defender issue, and the upping missile HP's added to that Aweseomenessness |
|
Tanith YarnDemon
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 19:33:00 -
[11]
H: 4x Siege Launcher II, 2x Tractor beams, 1x Salvager M: 2x Pithi B-type Small Shield Booster, 4x active harderners/SBA's, 2x TPs L: 4x BCU's
2x Flight velocity rigs
Now mind you, this is not really the one I'd want to run, I'm just forced to run something capstable due to very odd lag and the cost efficiency of the whole thing. In my eyes what's changed is that cruise missiles used to have the advantage that they were better on cruisers and frigates - now they too are useless and it's hardly any point in using cruise at all. Personally, I use a CNR for cruise on those rare long range missions and a torpgolem for the absolute majority.
|
Kadoes Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 20:30:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 22/11/2008 20:34:48 I've tossed my setup around a lot already but might it well at it into this thread as well:
[Golem, Missions] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Normal torps reliably hit to 40km, javelins to 60km(they should shoot out further but loosing 5+km off your range some of the time is apparently an intended game feature). Tractor everything close to you and loot then come back in a salvager(I use a hurricane) with 8x salvager and 3x salvage rigs and clean up. Shield hardeners and drones to fit your tastes or mission requirements.
Quote: Golems are a novelty ship and have absolutely no more utility than a raven because CCP pre-nerfed the **** out of it (as they have for any other new ship or mod in the last 2 years). Your best fitting for it is to fit it into the recycling center in the station and do something with the minerals.
Let's see... shield boost bonus means you can drop a slot off your tank. Painter bonus translates into a damage bonus and explosion velocity bonus also translates into a damage bonus. Then the tractor bonus translates into an ISK/hr bonus. For mission running it is more than just a novelty. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 03:34:00 -
[13]
Fury cruise missiles are the 'new' old torps. And their drawback isn't so bad. It's not like the Raven already screams when it comes to signature. Furies bring down BB's almost as fast as pre-nerf torps (from about a year ago). And the precision cruise also come in handy for the smaller stuff.
I'd seriously consider swapping out faction launchers for T2.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Kadoes Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 04:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Exlegion Fury cruise missiles are the 'new' old torps. And their drawback isn't so bad. It's not like the Raven already screams when it comes to signature. Furies bring down BB's almost as fast as pre-nerf torps (from about a year ago). And the precision cruise also come in handy for the smaller stuff.
I'd seriously consider swapping out faction launchers for T2.
I'd go for faction over rage, you'd end up with higher damage and better range. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Hellinthose
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 04:31:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gypsio III I'm fairly sure that Rigour rigs don't affect unguided missiles.
Okay, just for the irony of it, why are Torps referred to as UNGUIDED when they need a LOCK and they FOLLOW a target?
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 05:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hellinthose
Originally by: Gypsio III I'm fairly sure that Rigour rigs don't affect unguided missiles.
Okay, just for the irony of it, why are Torps referred to as UNGUIDED when they need a LOCK and they FOLLOW a target?
haven't been able to figure that one out
|
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 06:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kadoes Khan
Originally by: Exlegion Fury cruise missiles are the 'new' old torps. And their drawback isn't so bad. It's not like the Raven already screams when it comes to signature. Furies bring down BB's almost as fast as pre-nerf torps (from about a year ago). And the precision cruise also come in handy for the smaller stuff.
I'd seriously consider swapping out faction launchers for T2.
I'd go for faction over rage, you'd end up with higher damage and better range.
New Fury cruse is spanking the crap out of Javelins. Sig 300 (2x rigor and top skills) and explosion velocity 108 m/s (Golem lev 4), 'base' damage .. well javelin torp is 405 vs fury cruise 385, that is then only 5% advantage in exhange to sig of 450 m (unmodified by skills and rigs) and rather crap range (~60 km vs 220 km on fury) and explosion velocity (even with Golem's bonus ~90 m/s at lev 5 marauders).
Granted, torp launchers have advantage of considerably higher RoF than cruise launchers. It's just negated to large degree by the crap stats on new torps. So yeah - they kill BS faster, if it's close and painted and not moving too fast (ie faster than few hundred m/s). But if one is already planning to mount couple of painters he might as well go with fury and be able to kill horde of those cruisers in missions also, as unlike frigs it will take a while to kill them with drones.
Mind tho - it's just ranting in here. If in your experience torps are still working good for you - more power to you. Let's compare cliffnotes then later on, as I would be quite interested in actual numbers how they perform after patch. My rant is just based on running some numbers with new stats.
|
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 13:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kadoes Khan I'd go for faction over rage, you'd end up with higher damage and better range.
T2 Fury has a noticeable DPS advantage over faction cruise. And even on a Fury the distance attainable is over 200 Km, which is more than enough to still hit anything. With a painter and two rigors on a Golem, the explosion radius becomes a non-issue. Fury Golem is the new king when it comes to missions.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Tanith YarnDemon
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 14:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 23/11/2008 13:50:31
Originally by: Kadoes Khan I'd go for faction over rage, you'd end up with higher damage and better range.
T2 Fury has a noticeable DPS advantage over faction cruise. And even on a Fury the distance attainable is over 200 Km, which is more than enough to still hit anything. With a painter and two rigors on a Golem, the explosion radius becomes a non-issue. Fury Golem is the new king when it comes to missions.
Edit: And when you're hitting the small stuff, switch to precisions. Although, they're not as efficient, compared say, to drones. But after the QR patch, I don't think any BB-sized weapon will ever be.
What I don't understand is, how will the damage output be better from these than regular torps? Or are you referring to it as king only on the missions where torps won't be useful? I mean in the end, torps tend to be netting 2k-8k volleys, whereas cruise can hardly do half of that, with worse RoF... Sorry but I just can't see their superiority.
|
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 15:21:00 -
[20]
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Furies shine over torps when it comes to distance. In missions, atleast the ones I do, torps are useless because of their range. In raw DPS, yes, torps are undesputed rulers; but at a huge disadvantage. Also, keep in mind that torps have a massive explosion radius and small explosion velocity.
Basically, torps are almost and exclusively anti-BB weapons. And I mean, all of them bar javs, which can knock BC's and some cruisers. But T2 cruises are more versatile and *almost* as powerful. I knock out BC's with 1 volley when using Furies. Some cruisers go just as fast. And battlehips melt fast. For example, against Guristas, an Usurper battleship can go down with 5-6 Fury volleys, as opposed to 4-6 torps.
I haven't done the math yet, and my observations are purely from experience. Give them a try and see for yourself. Hell, I haven't tried torps post-QR, and I could be completely wrong. However, I'm very satisfied with the performance of Furies, especially since I don't sacrifice tank for a little extra fire power.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
|
Kadoes Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 21:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Exlegion Sorry, I should have been more specific. Furies shine over torps when it comes to distance. In missions, atleast the ones I do, torps are useless because of their range. In raw DPS, yes, torps are undesputed rulers; but at a huge disadvantage. Also, keep in mind that torps have a massive explosion radius and small explosion velocity.
Basically, torps are almost and exclusively anti-BB weapons. And I mean, all of them bar javs, which can knock BC's and some cruisers. But T2 cruises are more versatile and *almost* as powerful. I knock out BC's with 1 volley when using Furies. Some cruisers go just as fast. And battlehips melt fast. For example, against Guristas, an Usurper battleship can go down with 5-6 Fury volleys, as opposed to 4-6 torps.
I haven't done the math yet, and my observations are purely from experience. Give them a try and see for yourself. Hell, I haven't tried torps post-QR, and I could be completely wrong. However, I'm very satisfied with the performance of Furies, especially since I don't sacrifice tank for a little extra fire power.
Well I can certainly see I guess with rigs and the TPs how fury cruises would be nice but I don't really see how you can say Torps are useless because of their range, javelins shoot past 60km which is further than you need for any L4 mission. The explosion radius and velocity issues are helped greatly by the golems explosion velocity bonus and TP bonus and ability to easily fit 2x TP. This allows you to 3 volley most BB(4 for the tougher ones), 1 volley BC, 1 volley lower end cruisers(2 for higher end non-elites), 3 volley elites, 1 volley frigs and destroyers, usually takes about 3-4 volleys for elite frigs but my drones take care of those.
Really the fits can be nearly identical with the only differences being switching range rigs for rigor rigs and the launchers. Here are your differences:
Volley damage: 6800 Torp vs 5800 Fury Cruise vs 6100 Javelin Torps Rate of Fire: 7.35s Siege Launchers vs 8.99s Cruise Launchers Range: 40KM+ Torp vs 220KM+ Fury Cruise vs 60KM+ Javelin Torps Explosion Velocity: 130m/s Torp/Javelin vs 105 m/s Fury Cruise Explosion Radius: 450m Torp/Javelin vs 265m Fury Cruise
A Golem with 2x TP which you'll likely be getting around +50% sig radius on each will allow you to essentially double somethings sig radius. Which means cruisers will be closer to 300m sig and BC closer to 600m. When you apply this in game there are a few things you'll see...
BB - These take full damage from torps and orbit within javelin range, if they start further away you can simply agress the whole room and take out nearby ones first then by the time you've finished the others are likely in range.
BC - Usually orbit within normal torp range and will take full damage, giving torps a lead.
Cruiser - usually orbit within normal torp range, I would say overall Furies do more damage in this situation but the fact torps do such high volley damage allows them to actually kill them in the same amount of volleys which turns into actually faster kill speed because of siege launchers faster RoF.
Elite Cruisers - The increased resistances and higher number of volleys required is likely to greatly favor furies.
Frigs - They get 1 volleyed either way, which gives torps the edge due to higher RoF on siege launchers.
Elite frigs - I think furies win here but if your shooting at elite frigs I think something has gone wrong, or there aren't enough big ships to shoot at and you should have declined the mission to begin with.
Taking a look at some of the numbers the cruise setup certainly looks a LOT better than pre-QR and I'll probably being throwing a fit together on sisi to try it out. Although you miss out on the best reason to use torps... the awesome explosions. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 21:28:00 -
[22]
Why are we calling BS's BB's btw? Boink! |
zuckas
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 21:32:00 -
[23]
Edited by: zuckas on 23/11/2008 21:35:15 here is my fitting, posted on several golem threads that were active in teh alst few days.
Power Diagnostic System II Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Target Painter II 100MN Afterburner II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
It does very well, (i one vollyed a battleship yesterday, i love weapons grouping no chance to get any repair in)
I could probably drop the ab for another painter and really up my cruiser killing ability but so far it has worked out fairly well and that little extra speed sure helps.
With my skills this runs cap stable with the ab off, eft says 540dps tank, 1032dps output. its obviously not that high when you start shooting at battlecruisers and cruisers. I would recomend the small b-type tank to everyone but i really like how cheap they are so dont use it, they suck.
I allso run a full crystal set (low omega) and have the missile range implants.
At some point i will try the dual painter but moving over 2x the speed with the ab is so nice sometimes.
Edit,, after reading one of the above setups looks like a medium pith b-type will be just as good as 2x small b-types so depending on there price i might switch this out leaving me a free midslot for another painter but not loosing my mwd... (price is a big factor, i dont want to mission just to use isk to make my mission ship better... self defeating)
|
Exlegion
New Light
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 23:02:00 -
[24]
Kadoes Khan,
Great points. I'll be testing a torp Golem to compare it against my Fury. It just seems overall I can get through a mission quicker with T2 cruises than with torps. As to why I'm killing frigs and cruisers with missiles, instead of say, with drones, I run missions in low sec. I try and keep my location as clandestine as possible :).
To ElCoCo,
BB is the official designation of the battleship; not BS. Although BS does make more 'sense'. See here.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Kadoes Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 23:11:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Great points. I'll be testing a torp Golem to compare it against my Fury. It just seems overall I can get through a mission quicker with T2 cruises than with torps. As to why I'm killing frigs and cruisers with missiles, instead of say, with drones, I run missions in low sec. I try and keep my location as clandestine as possible :).
Ahhh, the low sec thing certainly changes things a bit, not having the drones would make the furies look a lot better -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 21:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kadoes Khan
Well I can certainly see I guess with rigs and the TPs how fury cruises would be nice but I don't really see how you can say Torps are useless because of their range, javelins shoot past 60km which is further than you need for any L4 mission. The explosion radius and velocity issues are helped greatly by the golems explosion velocity bonus and TP bonus and ability to easily fit 2x TP.
Oh torps are nice alright in their engagement range. However if they are viable for ALL missions your agent offers is function of region you live in. For example in The Forge approx 1/3 of missions offered have targets outside torpedo range. So in the end when averaging over whole mission pool offered in The Forge torps were slightly behind cruise missiles in average mission completion speed before patch, have not done the analysis post patch but my guess would be, that in The Forge cruise missiles offer now better effectivity than torpedoes.
Also - keep in mind, that torps are mostly usable in areas where there is quite serious turret competitors for those missions offered there like nightmare and paladin. Angels are ofc exceptin for last two, but then again those bastards tend to be with low sig and relatively fast so I'm not entirely convinced they are perfect target for torps either.
Not saying torps are useless now - just saying that they have edge now in smaller amount of missions than they used to. Afterall regardless of their limitations they still have around 25% better rof than cruise translating into around 33% better dps in addition to already higher base damage.
|
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 23:40:00 -
[27]
My cruise CNR wipes the floor on mission times compared to my torp Golem.
Golem is great though if you want to salvage and loot etc. If you just want the bounties and the LP's then use cruise. I might try cruise on the Golem sometime but I hate to waste rigs I put on ships so it might not happen anytime soon.
|
Mecela
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 03:27:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mecela on 01/02/2009 03:27:41 I seem to have a different take on my Golem than all the ones ive seen so far. I use an active tank and breeze thru lvl 4's. The only issue i have is getting target jammed. I have even solo'd a lvl 5. They are extremely dicey though due to the energy nuet-ing the enemies use. Heres my set up.
High: CN Cruise x4 Salvager x2 TB
Mid: Gist X-type LSB CN Invul Field x2 CN SBA x3 CN Mag Scat Amp
Low: CN BCS x3 Damage Control T2
Rigs: CCC T1 x2
Drones: Light Scout T2 x5 Med. Scout t2 x5
I use standard Cruise missiles. |
Zaran Darkstar
Divine Slaves
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 04:47:00 -
[29]
Golem is a very bad ship IMO. And since torps are so badly nerfed to tiny range combined with the fact that Raven is ultra slow makes it clear that for thosewho don;t want to spend billions on fancy officer equipment the cruise missiles are the only way. But on this case the Navy Raven is clearly better than the Golem.
Hell even my Tempest is better than that! |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 08:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ElCoCo Why are we calling BS's BB's btw?
Wondering the same thing. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |