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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.11.22 23:38:00 -
[1]
What can a 1 bil vindicator do that a 350mill navy mega cant?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.11.22 23:51:00 -
[2]
Use 5 mids and get extra cap.
Only reason there's such a huge price difference is availability really. Not saying Vindicator isn't better, just saying that's the reason for the huge difference. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 947312
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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.11.22 23:57:00 -
[3]
yes but the navy mega has an extra low slot where you can get a power relay II that gives you 24% extra cap insted of cap rech II with only 20%.
Money wasen't the issue
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:00:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chris Tao yes but the navy mega has an extra low slot where you can get a power relay II that gives you 24% extra cap insted of cap rech II with only 20%.
Money wasen't the issue
Not talking about cap rechargers nor relays, which honestly shouldn't be on either of the ships.
It has a bonus that gives you cap for each level of minmatar(IIRC). Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 755776
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:00:00 -
[5]
Can fit MWD Scram Web Injector and ECCM. Oh wait you obviously want it for pvp Calm Your Passion |
Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Can fit MWD Scram Web Injector and ECCM. Oh wait you obviously want it for pvp
Dont think you would want to pvp in a ship that cost 1.2bil
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:04:00 -
[7]
Then you're thinking entirely wrong. Pvp is exactly what the ship is there for.
Actually... look up Constantinee's videos and you'll see some pretty neat use of it. Vindication 3 is honestly one of my favourite videos so far. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 821457
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 23/11/2008 00:06:32 Then you're thinking entirely wrong. Pvp is exactly what the ship is there for.
Ha Ha, not anymore.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.23 00:25:00 -
[9]
It can active tank better. That is really about it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Chris Tao
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Posted - 2008.11.23 01:53:00 -
[10]
a kronos is better and cheeper
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Harrana
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 02:16:00 -
[11]
Until you meet anyone wielding ECM drones. ---------- This space is for rent. That makes me a rent boy. Contact me for details. |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.11.23 02:37:00 -
[12]
Lol, a Kronos does not have anything to fear from ECM drones. At least, one not fit by a drooling ******.
The vindicator is a bit of a sad beast. Its very very haard to find a role where it shines that is not eclipsed by either the Hyperion, the Kronos or the Navy Megathron. I havent checked the numbers, but it probably still has the best mobility of those, but it will be inferior in tank and gank.
Its also much more expensive than those three ships (indeed, depending on how the prices go, its sometimes more expensive than buying all three of those), due to low availabilty.
Solution? It needs overhauling. Its 3rd "pirate" bonus is crap (MWD cap penaltY), and even more so given that the good MWDs had their cap penalty reduced in Qr. Its worse than the old apoc's cap bonus, which was agreed to be useless and replaced.
It needs a proper Minmatar BS bonus. It needs +5/7.5/10% falloff per level, which is very minmatar, and combined with the vindi's hi speed, agility and five mids makes it great for kiting other blaster boats and basically acting like an AC boat with great damage. It also makes it much more interesting than the other pimp gallente bs, which are a bit formulaic: blasters, active armor tank. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Harrana
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 02:53:00 -
[13]
4 meds makes it hard to fit an ECCM with tackle/MWD/Cap Booster, plus it only gets 25 odd sensor strength with an ECCM, hardly making it particularly resistant to ECM. ---------- This space is for rent. That makes me a rent boy. Contact me for details. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 02:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Harrana 4 meds makes it hard to fit an ECCM with tackle/MWD/Cap Booster, plus it only gets 25 odd sensor strength with an ECCM, hardly making it particularly resistant to ECM.
Which is where the comment 'when not fit by a total muppet' came from Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Harrana
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 03:00:00 -
[15]
what's your setup? ---------- This space is for rent. That makes me a rent boy. Contact me for details. |
AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.11.23 03:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: El Yatta Lol, a Kronos does not have anything to fear from ECM drones. At least, one not fit by a drooling ******.
The vindicator is a bit of a sad beast. Its very very haard to find a role where it shines that is not eclipsed by either the Hyperion, the Kronos or the Navy Megathron. I havent checked the numbers, but it probably still has the best mobility of those, but it will be inferior in tank and gank.
Its also much more expensive than those three ships (indeed, depending on how the prices go, its sometimes more expensive than buying all three of those), due to low availabilty.
Solution? It needs overhauling. Its 3rd "pirate" bonus is crap (MWD cap penaltY), and even more so given that the good MWDs had their cap penalty reduced in Qr. Its worse than the old apoc's cap bonus, which was agreed to be useless and replaced.
It needs a proper Minmatar BS bonus. It needs +5/7.5/10% falloff per level, which is very minmatar, and combined with the vindi's hi speed, agility and five mids makes it great for kiting other blaster boats and basically acting like an AC boat with great damage. It also makes it much more interesting than the other pimp gallente bs, which are a bit formulaic: blasters, active armor tank.
actually, unless they changed since i flew one on SISI, the MWD bonus gives you a BOOST to cap. with min BS 5, thats a +25% bonus to cap, and the mwd takes anwhere from 25 (t1) to 15% or so (officer)
same bonus as the diemos/thorax
still, this is just what i think. you still wont know where the sig is tho |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.23 03:14:00 -
[17]
There are so few things you can do with a lowslot, but a whole lote more with an extra medslot Boink! |
Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2008.11.23 05:18:00 -
[18]
The Vindicator is more agile than the Navy Megathron. Aligns in 7.6 seconds with max skills. Faster than some cruiser into warp.
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Lusian
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Posted - 2008.11.23 06:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lusian on 23/11/2008 06:05:34 Befor te tec II sips and tech II moduels cam eout, we had all the faction ships and moduels. Basically te Vindicator was incredibly good in its hayday. Now we have better and more expensive shois that can do wat it can and more.
So the Vindicator is basically outclassed by a cheaper ships. So in essence the Vindicator is becomeing a dinasour. At least in pvp. Once we get more mission runners or ples runners or where ever the bpc's come from, they will slowly become cheaper to buy.
In theaory.
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Helen
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lusian Edited by: Lusian on 23/11/2008 09:10:04 Edited by: Lusian on 23/11/2008 06:05:34 Befor te tech II sips and tech II moduels came out, we had all the faction ships and moduels. Basically te Vindicator was incredibly good in its hayday. Now we have better and more expensive and cheaper ships that can do what it can, and more.
So the Vindicator is basically outclassed by a cheaper and more expensive ships. i have seen a Kronos on the market for 1.5 bill. So in essence the Vindicator is becomeing a dinasour. At least in pvp. Once we get more mission runners or plex runners or where ever the bpc's come from, they will slowly become cheaper to buy.
In theaory.
holy crap my head just exploded.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ElCoCo There are so few things you can do with a lowslot, but a whole lote more with an extra medslot
Oh so true
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Kresh Vladir
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: Lusian Edited by: Lusian on 23/11/2008 09:10:04 Edited by: Lusian on 23/11/2008 06:05:34 Befor te tech II sips and tech II moduels came out, we had all the faction ships and moduels. Basically te Vindicator was incredibly good in its hayday. Now we have better and more expensive and cheaper ships that can do what it can, and more.
So the Vindicator is basically outclassed by a cheaper and more expensive ships. i have seen a Kronos on the market for 1.5 bill. So in essence the Vindicator is becomeing a dinasour. At least in pvp. Once we get more mission runners or plex runners or where ever the bpc's come from, they will slowly become cheaper to buy.
In theaory.
holy crap my head just exploded.
cmon give the guy something for "TRYING" to sound smart atleast, i loled :D
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.11.23 14:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Harrana 4 meds makes it hard to fit an ECCM with tackle/MWD/Cap Booster, plus it only gets 25 odd sensor strength with an ECCM, hardly making it particularly resistant to ECM.
Nobody should fit an ECCM to a PVP marauder, especially one with only four midslots and a web bonus. At the end of the day - if a falcon shows up you will be jammed in a Kronos as you will be in any other battleship. You need a dedicated anti-falcon in that situation, be it snipers, speedy ships, or your own ECM boat with caldari racials.
Your only raised threat from jamming, in a kronos, is ecm drones. And guess how few HP they have? And how many spare highslots do you have? And is there a weapon that exists that you dont need a lock, and can kill all 5+ ECM drones in 1-2 cycles? Yup.
Originally by: AdmiralDovolski
Originally by: El Yatta Lol, a Kronos does not have anything to fear from ECM drones. At least, one not fit by a drooling ******.
The vindicator is a bit of a sad beast. Its very very haard to find a role where it shines that is not eclipsed by either the Hyperion, the Kronos or the Navy Megathron. I havent checked the numbers, but it probably still has the best mobility of those, but it will be inferior in tank and gank.
Its also much more expensive than those three ships (indeed, depending on how the prices go, its sometimes more expensive than buying all three of those), due to low availabilty.
Solution? It needs overhauling. Its 3rd "pirate" bonus is crap (MWD cap penaltY), and even more so given that the good MWDs had their cap penalty reduced in Qr. Its worse than the old apoc's cap bonus, which was agreed to be useless and replaced.
It needs a proper Minmatar BS bonus. It needs +5/7.5/10% falloff per level, which is very minmatar, and combined with the vindi's hi speed, agility and five mids makes it great for kiting other blaster boats and basically acting like an AC boat with great damage. It also makes it much more interesting than the other pimp gallente bs, which are a bit formulaic: blasters, active armor tank.
actually, unless they changed since i flew one on SISI, the MWD bonus gives you a BOOST to cap. with min BS 5, thats a +25% bonus to cap, and the mwd takes anwhere from 25 (t1) to 15% or so (officer)
same bonus as the diemos/thorax
~Yeha, exactly, a USELESS bonus. It gives you more cap just like the old apoc bonus that was of no use in PVP. Its junk, because the boat is always injecting anyway, and while its a nice freeby, when you lose out on an advantage that could distinguish the vindi from the other blasterboats that eclipse it.
All three, deimos/rax/vindi (and I think vigilant too?) need to just get +20/25% extra base cap, like the apoc, and a real bonus. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.23 14:59:00 -
[24]
Edited by: ElCoCo on 23/11/2008 14:59:59 Indeed, the extra cap from fitting the mwd is useless in most cases. A 7.5% falloff bonus is what I'd choose that's not too usefull and not too crap Boink! |
The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.11.23 16:19:00 -
[25]
Edited by: The Djego on 23/11/2008 16:20:08 Vindicator was a amazing ship.
Navy Mega also was more like 500-600 M back in this days where the Vidicator had his prime(and so Blasters) at this time there was no Hyperion or Kronos around to.
The Vindicator shines when fitted with Billions in Mods because it ballance out the main weaknesses of Blaster BS. It got more Cap(all ships got less cap back in the days), helping the ship out against Nos/Neut Fittings and in Tanking in general, was a lot faster and agile than a normal Mega or Navy Mega before the Changes at Speed and the speed Mods(talking about revelation here, mine was able to break 1600m/s back in the days without Speed Mods) combined with the bigger HP Buffer(far more importent before Rigs and with overall less HP).
With the HP Boost, several Speed ballances, the introduction of Rigs and the Tier 3 BS later on the Kronos, the ship more and more lost the things that made it great. The actual Agility and Web Ballance make it even worse(I got one, tested a bit around, only good thing is you can mount a 2. Web or a Scram now instead of the common Sensor Booster or ECCM).
Navy Mega is great plated for Gank, Vindicator is better unplated(using the speed/agility bonus or whats left of it) and building up a powerfull active Tank.
If you want to see what the ship did in his age where it was King for solo PVP: Wave of Mutilation II
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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