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Orb Lati
Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.24 00:53:00 -
[1]
Just read a post in the "Assembly Hall" which made me think.
With the propose introduction with Ambulation and the Contract betting system being proposed are their any countries that have poor or badly worded anti-gambling laws (in relation to minors) that doesn't place a distinction between gambling with Virtual Assets and gambling with real life money.
This is especially interesting in that with GTC trading one could argue that there is a Dollar to Isk exchange rate (be it one way) that affords a real life value to Isk.
Can anybody think of any country that would require EvE-Online to become R18 due to their anti-gambling laws?
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Grave Tidings
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:09:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Grave Tidings on 24/11/2008 01:09:07 That's actually a real good question. Because GTCs can be used to fund a gambling "habit" I imagine some of those wonderful committees in Congress would have a real good time with this. And the anti-gaming folks would jump all over it as well. Typically what Congress can't regulate they shut down - hard. CCP will need to learn to lie better to get around this one if they want to have casinos in stations.
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Xaa
Minmatar House Arrakis
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:10:00 -
[3]
Is that a cross between ambulation and amputation?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:14:00 -
[4]
Ignore the issue and hope it goes away. Thats how we solve thing :).
but seriously, I do not think it will be an issue. Lots of online gambling sites that deal in hard currency allready.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:16:00 -
[5]
isk ingame does not belong to you so in fact it is CCP playing with themselves so it cant invoke on gambling laws as tose involve montary value,
in a effort to show that they are indeed only playing with themselves because there is no montary value involved because all isk belong to CCP i have prepaired this slide with important information
The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Armoured C on 24/11/2008 01:17:13 double post
The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ |
Alty MacAlterson
Alt Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Armoured C isk ingame does not belong to you so in fact it is CCP playing with themselves so it cant invoke on gambling laws as tose involve montary value,
in a effort to show that they are indeed only playing with themselves because there is no montary value involved because all isk belong to CCP i have prepaired this slide with important information
What about that guy who got charged with theft for stealing someone's wow-goodies?
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gfldex
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:29:00 -
[8]
AFAIK Islam does not allow gambling in any form. If you are worrierd consult your local Imam. --
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alty MacAlterson
Originally by: Armoured C isk ingame does not belong to you so in fact it is CCP playing with themselves so it cant invoke on gambling laws as tose involve montary value,
in a effort to show that they are indeed only playing with themselves because there is no montary value involved because all isk belong to CCP i have prepaired this slide with important information
What about that guy who got charged with theft for stealing someone's wow-goodies?
Didnt he steal the account data and trade it to himself?
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Alty MacAlterson
Alt Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:32:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Alty MacAlterson on 24/11/2008 01:32:06
Originally by: gfldex AFAIK Islam does not allow gambling in any form. If you are worrierd consult your local Imam.
Accursed is the one who goes to his wife through her anus.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.24 02:00:00 -
[11]
All assets ingame are owned by CCP. Your characters are owned by CCP, as are the ISKs they would win or lose gambling. Nothing really changes hands.
There's absolutely zero chance of this attracting the attention of the law. I would bet my nads on it.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.24 02:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alty MacAlterson Edited by: Alty MacAlterson on 24/11/2008 01:32:06
Originally by: gfldex AFAIK Islam does not allow gambling in any form. If you are worrierd consult your local Imam.
Accursed is the one who goes to his wife through her anus.
Jesus I hope my wife never reads that. She'll convert to islam in a flash....
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.24 03:39:00 -
[13]
Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 24/11/2008 03:39:20
Originally by: Alty MacAlterson Edited by: Alty MacAlterson on 24/11/2008 01:32:06
Originally by: gfldex AFAIK Islam does not allow gambling in any form. If you are worrierd consult your local Imam.
Accursed is the one who goes to his wife through her anus.
ahahahaha this is hilarious uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Alt Sauce
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Posted - 2008.11.24 03:51:00 -
[14]
ISK =/= Real money
Therefore is isn't gambling and is not subjected to gambling laws. _________ |
Baldour Ngarr
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alt Sauce ISK =/= Real money
That argument died when people started paying for their game accounts with ISK. The stuff has a provable real-world value, no matter what CCP say about it. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
http://eve-search.com/thread/73354/page/1#1 |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 24/11/2008 05:23:18
Quote:
That argument died when people started paying for their game accounts with ISK. The stuff has a provable real-world value, no matter what CCP say about it.
Really? So the next time a pirate destroys my transport ship with a billion ISK in low-sec I can sue for damages?
Sorry, your argument died when someone confused a database entry for an asset.
Improve Market Competition! |
NocturnalDeath
Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:30:00 -
[17]
The FBI already shutdown all "gambling" in 2nd life.
The Justice Department loves to get secret indictments on offshore "gambling" owners/operators and then nab them when they fly into the US.
If CCP plan on any flavor of "gambling" they should be prepared to never come to the US again.
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Resetgun
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:35:00 -
[18]
Governing law in EvE is Iceland's law - not US law. Also there are no official way to change ISKs to RL money - unlike in Second Life where changing money to another is easy.
"As long as there are greedy people and the devs do nothing, it will work." - Dentara Rast, billionaire |
NocturnalDeath
Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Resetgun Governing law in EvE is Iceland's law - not US law.
While your statement makes perfect sense, the US doesn't care. Offering online "gambling" services to US citizens violates the Wire Act, no matter what country's laws you operate under. Check google for all of the foreign nationals that have been arrested for providing gambling services even though they broke none of their own country's laws.
As far as isk not being convertible, the DOJ isn't going to care about that either. If that were a loophole, then the $20B industry that is online gambling would be trying to use it.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: NocturnalDeath The FBI already shutdown all "gambling" in 2nd life.
The Justice Department loves to get secret indictments on offshore "gambling" owners/operators and then nab them when they fly into the US.
If CCP plan on any flavor of "gambling" they should be prepared to never come to the US again.
And once again the world feels it's 'the right thing to do' by protecting idiots from darwinism
Improve Market Competition! |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Akita T on 24/11/2008 05:49:29
Sometimes, I wish stupidity would hurt, so all the people who bring up topics like this one would writhe in agony whenever they try to write them.
First off, you pay CCP for a service (i.e. subscription to an entertainment system), and everything inside is sole property of CCP, you are NOT allowed to transfer anthing inside to somebody else for RL cash and so on and so forth, so the entire argument is legally moot from the get-go.
Second, even if some moron would manage to argue that assets in-game are somehow to be considered worth something by virtue of "well, you can sell it illegally for this much", you still have the very CORE of the game already being a big gamble : anything from loot drops, invention chances, the way turrets deal more/less damage and even the JAMMING mechanic is chance-based, and can lead directly to loss or gains of assets... and therefore by the same stupid line of thinking, be considered GAMBLING. And I won't even touch scamming, pirating, market manipulation and so on.
JUST SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY. Morons. ___
P.S. On second thought, you know what... make it "AO" for all I care, and outlaw the game in the USofA. USA citizens, play at your own risk. And fake your personal details to say you're from Canada or something.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
NocturnalDeath
Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Originally by: NocturnalDeath The FBI already shutdown all "gambling" in 2nd life.
The Justice Department loves to get secret indictments on offshore "gambling" owners/operators and then nab them when they fly into the US.
If CCP plan on any flavor of "gambling" they should be prepared to never come to the US again.
And once again the world feels it's 'the right thing to do' by protecting idiots from darwinism
I make my living "gambling" with the idiots (poker), so I agree with you completely! :)
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Naim Mee
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Posted - 2008.11.24 05:54:00 -
[23]
These threads are getting old to be honest, with all the E-lawyers coming out of the woodwork.
The only way to really know the truth is if people start to file real lawsuits and or get their country/state/province justice enforcement groups to investigate.
So shut up and let it go...or file a damn law suit already and get the ball rolling.
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Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:02:00 -
[24]
Now that the house and senate are dem controlled I would definetly assume that something might happen to change the rating system. Dems are utterly notorious when it comes to nannying people. Wouldn't be surprised.
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 24/11/2008 05:49:29
Sometimes, I wish stupidity would hurt, so all the people who bring up topics like this one would writhe in agony whenever they try to write them.
First off, you pay CCP for a service (i.e. subscription to an entertainment system), and everything inside is sole property of CCP, you are NOT allowed to transfer anthing inside to somebody else for RL cash and so on and so forth, so the entire argument is legally moot from the get-go.
Second, even if some moron would manage to argue that assets in-game are somehow to be considered worth something by virtue of "well, you can sell it illegally for this much", you still have the very CORE of the game already being a big gamble : anything from loot drops, invention chances, the way turrets deal more/less damage and even the JAMMING mechanic is chance-based, and can lead directly to loss or gains of assets... and therefore by the same stupid line of thinking, be considered GAMBLING. And I won't even touch scamming, pirating, market manipulation and so on.
JUST SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY. Morons. ___
P.S. On second thought, you know what... make it "AO" for all I care, and outlaw the game in the USofA. USA citizens, play at your own risk. And fake your personal details to say you're from Canada or something.
*vader* The bitterness is strong in this one.
Seriously though CCP isnt run by idiots and if they havent looked into this sort of thing yet they may very well be looking into it now. If its a problem they will pull it though in all honesty thats not going to stop people from gambling anyway as im sure individuals will be popping up to be third parties to hold the cash for a bet then take a percentage as a holders fee. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:44:00 -
[26]
Moral of the story?
Remember kiddies, gambling is illegal unless you go to the Casinos set up by the big friendly businessmen.
Improve Market Competition! |
Franga
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.24 06:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T Second, even if some moron would manage to argue that assets in-game are somehow to be considered worth something by virtue of "well, you can sell it illegally for this much", you still have the very CORE of the game already being a big gamble : anything from loot drops, invention chances, the way turrets deal more/less damage and even the JAMMING mechanic is chance-based, and can lead directly to loss or gains of assets... and therefore by the same stupid line of thinking, be considered GAMBLING. And I won't even touch scamming, pirating, market manipulation and so on.
The first part of your post was fine (CCP property, etc.), apart from the extreme arrogance.
However, the quoted part we see here, this ... well, this isn't sound reasoning. ----------
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.24 07:18:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 24/11/2008 07:20:43
Originally by: NocturnalDeath The FBI already shutdown all "gambling" in 2nd life.
Trust me ... no they haven't. ;)
It's against the SL TOS now, of course. Doesn't change the fact that *many* people run underground gambling operations.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.11.24 07:45:00 -
[29]
Anything on TQ's database doesn't not belong to you, and its not worth a single bit of any currency.
It doesn't matter if you paid RL monies for it, it was deemed by CCP to be owned by them and thus decided to be worthless by them.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Alt Sauce
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Posted - 2008.11.24 08:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Alt Sauce ISK =/= Real money
That argument died when people started paying for their game accounts with ISK. The stuff has a provable real-world value, no matter what CCP say about it.
Show me the button that turns ISK into money in my RL bank account. _________ |
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