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Djan Anaplian
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.25 01:28:00 -
[31]
Finally, something to fry the chavs with.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.11.25 03:14:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 24/11/2008 22:43:50 Ok what how about when the officers break the law? What then. Have you forgotten that police are there for the people and not the other way around. When they come behind your door to get your dna, inject a rfid tag under your skin or take you to a camp. What will you do?
This is getting sillier byt the week. then we have this
Social-services-set-up-CCTV-camera-in-couples-bedroom
Hello Shiningone alt.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.11.25 03:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Zap
Not sure about this. If a suspect appears armed get an armed reponse unit. If not just smack over the head for crying out loud. It's not like they don't have pepper spray already for people with knives.
i cant wait until the first officer uses this and the suspect is burned or bleeds a little and sues the Police department and charges the officer with abuse, assault, battery, and attempted murder (for those who have high choloesterol or some ****)
wouldnt suprise me one bit tbh
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.11.25 03:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar you should get rid of your silly parliament andthe queen and then maybe we'll accept you as our 51 state
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
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Posted - 2008.11.25 09:11:00 -
[35]
Very controversial story, and quite old. I understand one man now has heart palpatations since being tasered, another with a screwed up nervous system and at least one woman has had a misscarriage after same and they push ahead with it anyway. Don't like it at all. Just stick to the truncheon bobby and armed response when needed approach and there's no problem. -------------
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.25 09:28:00 -
[36]
To be honest, Tazers are weak.
The Police should have at minimum a 9mm and a Tazer in high risk areas. General street police have CS Gas and a telescoping baton usually. I had a chat to a police woman the other day, she did feel that they were actually a bit pointless, in that she had to get CLOSE to a criminal to put any kind of force on him.
Police weapons would speak volumes in Britain, where people **** bricks at the sight of a bright orange toy paintball gun, let alone the business end of an M92FS.
But for some reason in this country, if an armed police officer so much as raises a gun or takes it off safety, he probably goes to jail or ends up in court.
At the end of the day, theres so much lack of faith in our own police force.
We train these officers and we pay obscene amounts for it. So why exactly do we question them every time they make a decision?
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Voltain
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 09:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle We train these officers and we pay obscene amounts for it. So why exactly do we question them every time they make a decision?
Because shooting that Brazilian guy just might have been the wrong one.
Because police racism interfered with an investigation into a black kids murder.
Because they shot a guy for carrying a table leg.
Because they ploughed their car into a woman who lived locally to me.
DesuSig |
KingsGambit
Caldari Knights
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Posted - 2008.11.25 10:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle But for some reason in this country, if an armed police officer so much as raises a gun or takes it off safety, he probably goes to jail or ends up in court.
At the end of the day, theres so much lack of faith in our own police force.
We train these officers and we pay obscene amounts for it. So why exactly do we question them every time they make a decision?
Voltain has it spot on there. We pay them to enforce the law and police have a very unique position in our society. We tolerate them breaking a few minor laws if it means stopping criminals breaking bigger ones and to protect us from them. However when they start shooting and tasing us, that's a litle more than I personally think we want from them. I think armed response units are a must to deal with specific threats and in places of high security, but arming our bobbies would turn our police into those of the continent or the US.
If any policeman ever fires a gun in the UK for any reason (outside of training) they are immediately suspended pending investigation and this is one thing that is absolutely right. Firing even one bullet is a very big deal and we have to question whether or not it was necessary, if it costs someone their life. If they had the right of it, then the man comes back to work, if not, court/jail/inquiry. The system works. Won't help De Menzes though.
Anyway, this thread is going in a bad direction. -------------
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.25 10:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Reven Cordelle on 25/11/2008 10:06:22
Originally by: Voltain
Originally by: Reven Cordelle We train these officers and we pay obscene amounts for it. So why exactly do we question them every time they make a decision?
Because shooting that Brazilian guy just might have been the wrong one.
Because police racism interfered with an investigation into a black kids murder.
Because they shot a guy for carrying a table leg.
Because they ploughed their car into a woman who lived locally to me.
Haha, good point.
In the same mind, now that they have tazers...
I'll begin taking bets on how long it takes for the news to report an "over-tazered criminal".
(Oh, and to be honest... If you see a sketchy looking guy, and you shout "stop" whilst pointing an MP5 at him... and he runs, is he suspect? (Shortly after some bombings remember) In this modern world, he is. Alas thats neither here nor there. He's dead now.)
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Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 11:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Captain Hudson About time they used these instead of 5 officers to restrain some **** who wont behave when getting arrested. Dont break the law and you wont have anything to fear will you?[/quote]
hahahahaha good one mate! LOL!
....wait, you weren't serious were you?
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Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 12:29:00 -
[41]
the UK zeitgeist is so afraid of "big brother" or the police state that it's pretty much guaranteed never to happen.
hell, we're so culturally petrified of the idea that hardly anything can get done without being scrutinized in minute detail by ten or twelve watchdogs. -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Voltain
BEER Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 12:33:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Voltain on 25/11/2008 12:33:08 The thing is we do move ever closer to a police state.
It may come down to the basic interaction between the Police and the public being a decision made by the copper whether to Taser or not.
Can you see either of the following circumstances happening?
A copper sees you taking a leak up an ally while youÆre on a night out; youÆre caught short and didnÆt have a choice besides that or ****ing yourself. Some will see reason and tell you not to do it again, others will give you an ear full and accuse you of drunken and disorderly behaviour, criminal damage etc. What happens if you (a right minded member of the public) disagree to this, are you resisting arrest? Do you require a Tasering?
Its 2011, youÆre on a legitimate protest to show your anger at the governmentÆs decision to increase your NI contributions by 10% as the national debt is so high payments have meant the NHS is unable to provide any healthcare to the over 65Æs (who are all now expected to work until 75 before retirement). While youÆre at a rally point the police act on tenuous information discussed in a private email which suggests a very small minority may be attending with the intention to cause trouble. They tell you to disband, you feel as if you are losing your basic freedom to protest and the group refuse. Do you all have your balls fried?
DesuSig |
Stitcher
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 12:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Voltain Can you see either of the following circumstances happening?
A copper sees you taking a leak up an ally while youÆre on a night out; youÆre caught short and didnÆt have a choice besides that or ****ing yourself. Some will see reason and tell you not to do it again, others will give you an ear full and accuse you of drunken and disorderly behaviour, criminal damage etc. What happens if you (a right minded member of the public) disagree to this, are you resisting arrest? Do you require a Tasering?
solution - do not resist arrest. Exercise your right to legal representation and to have your case handled by a different officer. if you are tazed unfairly, you have a right to take the police to court over it.
Quote: Its 2011, youÆre on a legitimate protest to show your anger at the governmentÆs decision to increase your NI contributions by 10% as the national debt is so high payments have meant the NHS is unable to provide any healthcare to the over 65Æs (who are all now expected to work until 75 before retirement). While youÆre at a rally point the police act on tenuous information discussed in a private email which suggests a very small minority may be attending with the intention to cause trouble. They tell you to disband, you feel as if you are losing your basic freedom to protest and the group refuse. Do you all have your balls fried?
Maybe, but if you do it's a legitimate case of police brutality that can again be taken through the courts.
Like I said, our culture is so concerned about police abuse and brutality that we have incredibly efficient systems in place for dealing with the rare isolated incidence where it does actually happen.
Not only that, but the cops are so worried about being sued or suffering further public relations damage that they make damn sure that they minimize the possibility of being exposed to these charges.
Individual police, sure, handle with caution. But the organization itself is as good as gold and stocked with a huge number of honourable people who more than counterbalance the rare power junky. -
Captain Verin "Stitcher" Tarn-Hakatain. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:28:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 25/11/2008 17:28:59
Originally by: Reven Cordelle (Oh, and to be honest... If you see a sketchy looking guy, and you shout "stop" whilst pointing an MP5 at him... and he runs, is he suspect? (Shortly after some bombings remember) In this modern world, he is. Alas thats neither here nor there. He's dead now.)
Except he didn't run. According to people in the same carriage testifying at the inquest, he walked in, sat down, then another man walked in and wordlessly shot him in the head. No running down the escalator vaulting over barriers, no jacket or warnings. After that, a lot of misleading details were leaked to the media and became widely accepted before a whole bunch of people who were there called BS on it before judges at the attempted H&S prosecution and now the inquest. Frankly with the limited and intermittent visual contact the police appear to have had, it is a miracle they did not walk into the wrong carriage and shoot the wrong guy wearing similar clothes. Nope, it was a cluster**** from start to finish and I doubt a single thing was done correctly because it was the first time and accordingly the training was worthless. I fully expect them to make a mess of it several more times before they score a notable success.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:38:00 -
[45]
For the same reason you can't preemtively hang people because there is a chance there might be a murderer amongst them, you can't preemptively disallow the police to have means to defend themselves/society just because stuff goes wrong sometimes.
If that were the case then no one would ever be allowed to drive a car again because some people don't pay attention or are drunk and cause deadly accidents.
fact; there's some creepy, nasty s****out there fact: I'm certainly not gonna intervene and be brave fact: police are people, who want to come home after their day of work fact: I have no problems with the police having severe measures to protect semselves and possibly discourage any idiots wanting to pull any sh!t.
Ofcourse you can drop the '1984' card but lets be honest; as it stands we need someone to take care of the idiots, it's getting out of hand.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:44:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 25/11/2008 17:44:45
They have truncheons, pepper spray, steel-toed boots, radio, and the most comprehensive video surveilance system on the planet. When there are criminals about, have at them. They don't need guns for routine work, that is why we have specially trained units. Besides, I have yet to see anyone need a revolver to arrest a banker, insurance broker or auditor. Why aren't they going after the real criminals?
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.25 17:51:00 -
[47]
define real criminals.
641424? That's Numberwang! |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 18:00:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 25/11/2008 18:01:04
Originally by: ouroboros trading define real criminals.
Fraudsters. Their counterfeiting of credit destroys the purchasing power of the money in my pocket the same way as if someone walks up to me and demands it at knifepoint. But instead of tackling that, we make sure young people cannot congregate in a park as though it is there to be looked at from beyond the gate. I think we could talk about arming the police if we saw some concessions made over double standards.
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.25 18:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 25/11/2008 18:01:04
Originally by: ouroboros trading define real criminals.
Fraudsters. Their counterfeiting of credit destroys the purchasing power of the money in my pocket the same way as if someone walks up to me and demands it at knifepoint. But instead of tackling that, we make sure young people cannot congregate in a park as though it is there to be looked at from beyond the gate. I think we could talk about arming the police if we saw some concessions made over double standards.
aye *nods*
448982? That's Numberwang! |
Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:25:00 -
[50]
Provided these are used responsibly and discriminately I think they extend the range of responses available to the police which can only be a good thing.
Saves them having to shoot or tackle nutters with knives for a start.
The problem comes when these things are abused but I suppose that is where guidelines and the IPCC come in.
It's pretty common practice for police officers who carry these things to try them out on each other in training so it's not as though anyone is going to regard them as "harmless".
Quote: Because shooting that Brazilian guy just might have been the wrong one.
Believe it or not the Police operate under much the same law regarding self-defence as the rest of us do. It's acceptable only if they believe what they are doing is the only way to prevent a crime from taking place. Response should be proportionate.
I think the only modification is that they can do so preventatively - they don't have to see a crime actually happening to use force.
So, is it OK to shoot a suicide bomber in the head to stop him detonating a bomb on a rush hour subway carriage?
Any shot other than a headshot is likely to give him chance to detonate his bomb. Shouting a warning will give him chance to detonate his bomb. He isn't going to surrender anyway because is a suicide bomber. Using Less-Than-Lethal means will give him chance to detonate his bomb. You can't wait and see because this is very likely his target. There have already been a string of bombings on public transport and this is an ideal time and location to set off a bomb to cause lots of casualties.
"Ah but" you might not unreasonably say "this guy wasn't a suicide bomber". Yup. It's true. Noone is infallible. There were in that instance and always will be tragic mistakes made.
But if you change the law to prevent the Police acting in those circumstances you make it basically impossible for them to protect the public under what are probably going to be increasingly commonplace circumstances.
You can at this point trot out "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither." but that isn't how it works in this country.
Anyway, dreadful weather we're having.
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.25 19:46:00 -
[51]
Yea it might be able to overload a normal persons nerves but if they tried to do it to me I'd just power up to over a 500, 000 power level and it explode the whole taser gun and probably nearly explode anyone near it. Then I'd punch the guy up in the air and then I'd go Masenkoooo!!! and blast him up into the air and then do like 50 ki blasts
180309? That's Numberwang! |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.25 23:58:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Voltain Edited by: Voltain on 25/11/2008 12:33:08 The thing is we do move ever closer to a police state.
What makes you think it hasn't been once since the late 60's?
The MOD have been thinking about the up-and-coming problems for a long time. Let's see if the police have been upgraded to all carrying guns in another 10 years time.
~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 00:03:00 -
[53]
Quote: Because shooting that Brazilian guy just might have been the wrong one.
FFS he shouldn't have even been in the F&*King country. If he wasn't here he wouldn't have been shot in the head. Pity they don't shoot all the other people who are here illegally while they're at it.
It really ****es me off that so much money has been spent on that case. Davina.. all great points btw.
~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2008.11.26 01:35:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Brea Lafail on 26/11/2008 01:48:45
Originally by: Davina Braben
Any shot other than a headshot is likely to give him chance to detonate his bomb. Shouting a warning will give him chance to detonate his bomb. He isn't going to surrender anyway because is a suicide bomber. Using Less-Than-Lethal means will give him chance to detonate his bomb. You can't wait and see because this is very likely his target. There have already been a string of bombings on public transport and this is an ideal time and location to set off a bomb to cause lots of casualties.
Gee, I dunno, maybe they coulda used all that expensive police training to grapple the guy so he couldn't move his arms? What evidence did they have to show he even had a bomb? I'd think that drugs would be much more likely. What next: "Im faaaiiiirly sure that's the killer *BAM* whoops, my bad, maybe that's him over there?"
P.S. Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
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dennyreborn
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Posted - 2008.11.26 02:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych Zap
Not sure about this. If a suspect appears armed get an armed reponse unit. If not just smack over the head for crying out loud. It's not like they don't have pepper spray already for people with knives.
Pepper spray is nice and all but it has limitations. It is still possible to cut someone while blinded with pepper spray. And very likely to happen if the chav is drugged out.
Now what we need is to encourage a liberal use of the Taser in the name of officer safety.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.26 08:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Brea Lafail Gee, I dunno, maybe they coulda used all that expensive police training to grapple the guy so he couldn't move his arms? What evidence did they have to show he even had a bomb? I'd think that drugs would be much more likely. What next: "Im faaaiiiirly sure that's the killer *BAM* whoops, my bad, maybe that's him over there?"
P.S. Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
If you want to wrestle someone who has a bomb on him he could set off any second then by all mean, go have fun. But please do it in the backyard where there's some room and we can easily clean up the blood splatters afterwards.
Don't talk nonsense.
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mogwai
Gallente Licentia Pro Totus
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Posted - 2008.11.26 08:37:00 -
[57]
It's about bloody time the U.K police got issued with tazers.
I have family in the police force and it's been demoralizing seing them 'trying' to do a job that has landed more than one in hospital due to lack of correct equipment to subdue a criminal.
All they need now is the damn red-tape brigade so stop trying to justify thier over-inflated wage packets and leave the police officers alone to put crooks behind bars
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Captain Hudson
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.11.26 08:45:00 -
[58]
Criminals have tasers,guns,knives and all sorts of weapons they love to unleash on you for stepping on their shoes or because they like your mobile phone. Now the police have pepper spray and a trunchon, is it any wonder no one fears them?
People cry about a lack of police, its because 5 of them have to spend 10 minutes trying to handcuff someone who has had to much to drink or simply wants to cause more trouble, one zap will sort them out and the other 4 can go out and catch more of them..
Iv found him |
midge Mo'yb
R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.26 09:16:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Brea Lafail Edited by: Brea Lafail on 26/11/2008 01:48:45
Originally by: Davina Braben
Any shot other than a headshot is likely to give him chance to detonate his bomb. Shouting a warning will give him chance to detonate his bomb. He isn't going to surrender anyway because is a suicide bomber. Using Less-Than-Lethal means will give him chance to detonate his bomb. You can't wait and see because this is very likely his target. There have already been a string of bombings on public transport and this is an ideal time and location to set off a bomb to cause lots of casualties.
Gee, I dunno, maybe they coulda used all that expensive police training to grapple the guy so he couldn't move his arms? What evidence did they have to show he even had a bomb? I'd think that drugs would be much more likely. What next: "Im faaaiiiirly sure that's the killer *BAM* whoops, my bad, maybe that's him over there?"
P.S. Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
was the guys own fault... he was an ilegal imigrant? or visa expired or something iirc, the police asked him to stop and he ran... oh gee you think after the events of 7/7 not long before it running from the police in the subway is hardly gonna get you any friends... -----------------------------------------------
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.26 09:37:00 -
[60]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar you should get rid of your silly parliament andthe queen
Ooooh, I wish.
Half the problems in this country are due to the above and the fact that Brits have no form of constitutional rights. What few rights Brits may have left are being eroded away because the gov't can take them away from you anytime they want. Brits protest by buying more pizza and watching extra episodes of Eastenders cos they got no spine.
As you can see, I'm not proud of being British.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
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