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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 43 post(s) |
Mes Ren
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.29 05:00:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Chronos VIII
Originally by: StoreSlem
Originally by: Mes Ren I personally hope that someone is stupid enough to field 9 ishtars against us. I definately hope they are dumb enough to use gardes. There are a number of different ways to defeat the 9 Ishtar build, the key is a good understanding of the game mechanics. Even the brute force route will work quite well. ie. 5x Pulse Geddons, triple trimark with 5x bouncer II's. Warp in a 0km, the max distance the IShtars can be is 50km away. The Ishtars will melt very quickly, even if they are using TD's. Just my 2 cents.
18 td's or rsd's / 5 armageddons -> tachyons hit well at 50km? arma can lock at 50km?
I'm thinking that sentry drones alone aren't a big problem, it's more when they are coupled with 375m3 drone bay ship with damage bonus + plenty ew + nimble sig res tanking. Everyone who are stuck on the Gardes also forget that Ishtars have enough drone bay to efficiently deal good damage anywhere from 0-125km. Simply, 11 points for an Ishtar is a super bargain, while noone are going to pay 11 points for an eagle or cyclone.
In the end it's not really unfair seeing how everyone who want just can field those 9 ishtars and be at an advantage against most everyone who don't, but how can it be more exciting watching 9 ishtars hours on end than 7 sb's / 2 logistics?
Listen to this man, he knows whats he talkin about. Just outta interest mes ren, gimme a setup that will easily counter 9 ishtars + navy vexor with damps/tracking disruptors. Please enlight me. Chronx
Sorry, I have no intention of providing further enlightenment. ________________________
No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
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Mes Ren
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.29 05:06:00 -
[122]
Originally by: ookke Last years tourney was boring to watch, agreed. But I think banning remote repping completely is a bit drastic, I don't think Green Alliance vs. Notoriery for example was boring at all to watch(1 logistics vs. 0 logistics, lots of remote rep mods in total). The whole match lasted maybe 5 minutes and was very entertaining. Without remote reps I think it would've all been over for us(Green) in about 2 minutes. Just nerf the dual(or god forbid, triple) logistics lineups by upping the logistics point cost a lot to say 40-50 points.
I doubt your commentators will even be able to keep up with matches of this new suggested format, they were missing details already last year and this year we might be looking at matches being over in less than 2 or 3 minutes.
Personally, I would like to see remote reps on logistics ships, and wouldn't mind having a huge point boost to logistics as a result. I'd have to say though, I wouldn't want to see remote reps allowed on non-logistics ships in conjunction with the allowing of rigs.
As far as the Green vs Notoriety fight, it was definately a fun fight. ________________________
No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
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StoreSlem
Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.29 06:37:00 -
[123]
Originally by: CCP Claw 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score.
Question: Will these unused points be added to your opponents score even if they don't kill a single ship? Or will they only be given if they kill all your ships, or perhaps if destroying at least one ship?
Imo, no points should be awared for being an epic fail, ie killing 0 ships in 20 minutes. I think it's sufficient to award it when all ships are killed, so that a complete wipeout will allways be worth 125 points.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2008.11.29 06:51:00 -
[124]
Originally by: StoreSlem Question: Will these unused points be added to your opponents score even if they don't kill a single ship? Or will they only be given if they kill all your ships, or perhaps if destroying at least one ship?
Imo, no points should be awared for being an epic fail, ie killing 0 ships in 20 minutes. I think it's sufficient to award it when all ships are killed, so that a complete wipeout will allways be worth 125 points.
In the last tourney it was that if you dont use the points the other team automatically gets them.
new question: has anyone found any way to make frigates at all useful with no remote logistics?
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Vasili Z
Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:52:00 -
[125]
Logistics are boring, ECM is boring. Should ban them both and you would have the most exciting alliance tournament yet. -------
If you fit ECM, you're not a pvper. |
Sigras
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Posted - 2008.11.29 08:08:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Vasili Z Logistics are boring, ECM is boring. Should ban them both and you would have the most exciting alliance tournament yet.
you mean exciting as seeing one unoriginal person bring their unoriginal gank setup to kill the other unoriginal persons unoriginal gank setup?
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Vasili Z
Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.11.29 08:15:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Sigras
Originally by: Vasili Z Logistics are boring, ECM is boring. Should ban them both and you would have the most exciting alliance tournament yet.
you mean exciting as seeing one unoriginal person bring their unoriginal gank setup to kill the other unoriginal persons unoriginal gank setup?
You're right dood, that fight Tri had against Ev0ke was really boring. I would much rather see people get jammed and die slowly. That's what pvp is all about now anyways amirite? -------
If you fit ECM, you're not a pvper. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.29 08:44:00 -
[128]
Sniper cerbs with their own damps or 200km sniper eagles with ecm/damps can take out the ishtars or be a boring ecm stalemate. Also, any vagabond pilot who has any brains can easily zoom in within 15-20 seconds, orbit @500m and well sentrys are now useless, gg ishtars. 9 Vagabonds or 10 stabber fleet issues throw out enough light/med drones to kill ishtars. If ishtars drop RR drones then zoom in and pew pew drones.
Combination of ECM drones and sentrys are probably gg enough to kill a lot of setups though......
Also, are fleet bonuses and gang mods + mindlink ok to use? --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Sigras
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Posted - 2008.11.29 09:18:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Vasili Z You're right dood, that fight Tri had against Ev0ke was really boring. I would much rather see people get jammed and die slowly. That's what pvp is all about now anyways amirite?
no not at all; but if you eliminate all other options, all youre gonna see is one gankfest after another, thats not what PVP is all about either.
I thought the most exciting matches were the ones where the logistics ship was able to pull back just enough to keep the target alive and that one them the match.
yes, we all want a fair match but do we just want the same match over and over again? one of the best things about this game is its inclusion of variety,
PvP isnt all about who can bring the bigger badder setups or who gets the biggest epeen upgrade because mine is bigger; bigger should not = better
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.11.29 09:44:00 -
[130]
I <3 these rules :)
Logistics can use their secondary bonussed mods if you chose to field them, logistics drones are still allowed and you could actually try (remote) hull repping (LOL)..
Cheaper BS points & BC points means higher chances of seeing true sludge matches, which is always fun (sure I do like a nice logistics/tactical fight as much as the other guy, but match after match ... nuhuh).
No pirate implant sets again makes the odds of seeing sludge matches a lot higher :D, lowering the entry fee to 500M is a nice touch, but I feel this rule combined with the no t2 rigs & normal logistics really helps make the tourney available to more alliances.
Can't wait :D
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide.. |
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Golden Gnu
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.29 14:03:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Golden Gnu on 29/11/2008 14:03:09 Thank you for bringing the alliances tournament back...
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HedleyLamarr
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Posted - 2008.11.29 14:20:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Apocalypse Doom Edited by: Apocalypse Doom on 28/11/2008 21:31:05 With no remote reps, get ready to see drakes, nighthawks, vultures, oh and more drakes.
You've given those passive tanking prossies rigs too.....
I see 9 drakes coming up, and one massive yawnfest
You dont think the other 9 drakes have enough dps to pop 1? are you crazy.. I like the changes and I hope to get in on the fun this year for the first time.
Thanks for bringing my superbowl back!!!
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.29 14:42:00 -
[133]
About t2 rigs. Since I already have some faction BS's with t2 rigs on them, can I petition to get the rigs removed to my hangar so that I won't have to buy a new one? (honest question) Boink! |
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CCP Claw
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Posted - 2008.11.29 16:53:00 -
[134]
Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.11.29 16:56:00 -
[135]
*grins*
TouchT .. at least partially ;)
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Crovan
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.29 17:46:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Max Teranous Man, if only you could like, shoot sentries and pop them. Oh wait....
Max
I was waiting for someone to mention this. Within a certain range threshold, Ishtars could only damp so much. I guess everyone forgot the compendium of whine threads when RSDs got nerfed awhile back for non-ewar ships.
The omguberness of the 9 ishtar + 1 X setup is that it assumes 1) The enemy does not have ewar of their own (sensor boosted Rook at max deployment range running at a 45 degree angle backwards from the drones with an AB, anyone?), 2) That, frankly sentry drone tracking is better than it is. Yes, Gardes track reasonably well, since they are short range. Gardes also do Thermal (and only thermal) damage. Both shield and armor tanks tend to tank heavily for Thermal. Bring a couple of Nighthawks and chuckle to yourself as that 4000+ DPS mentioned earlier gets cut to about 400.
Also, as CCP Claw pointed out, it shows a pretty clear lack of memory regarding past tourneys. Yes, ECM and drones play a big role in these things, but they've yet to be game-breakers. You know what HAS made for really boring matches? Unbreakable spider tanks of death with logistics sporting stupidly high sensor strength. I'll have to ask the pilots, but I am reasonably sure at least one of the MC's Guardians in a match last year had 100+ sensor strength.
At the end of the day, the tournament will go off, and 95% of the viewers will not know or care that people were complaining their heads off on the forums about t3h ub4r Ishtar setup of D34th. They will sit back and watch the pretty explosions and have a good weekend doing it. I respectfully suggest some of those here relax and allow themselves to do the same.
The Drone Bay Podcast
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.29 19:37:00 -
[137]
only rule i would like changed and i see no reason why it's in the tourney in the first place is the rule again pirate implants. please consider removing that rule.
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
steveid
Killed In Action Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:07:00 -
[138]
I think you should put a rule in place that limits the number of a certain type of ship. Otherwise your looking at fleets of falcons at a bunch of passive tanked ishtars with large shield transfer drones and the like.
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Ruiryu
Cosmic Castaways
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:07:00 -
[139]
For all of those cry about sentry drones, try using missiles on them, or you can field a stealth bomber with bombs to blow them up. Field some heavy snipers to pop them quickly. Stop whining because your not thinking out side of the box. The sword can only strike one enemy at a time, but tactics can defeat ten thousand men at once. |
Ruiryu
Cosmic Castaways
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:10:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Ruiryu on 29/11/2008 20:09:53
Originally by: CCP Claw Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
I agree with you Claw. With this new point system CCP has set up it allows people to be VERY creative. People just need to start thinking out side of the box and stop using the first thing that comes to mind. If people were to stop and clearly think about the possibilities they will see there is a lot of things that they can do with this tourny that they couldn't in others. The sword can only strike one enemy at a time, but tactics can defeat ten thousand men at once. |
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Ikoras
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:31:00 -
[141]
I can see it now....
6 ishtars all loaded with tracking disruptor, 3 Kitsunes, and a rook.
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Tobias Lee
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:42:00 -
[142]
Hmm the above countered by 4 Paladins 2 Malus and 4 kitsunes :)
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Gruxella
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.29 20:42:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Gruxella on 29/11/2008 20:42:50 The only comment I'd like to add is that both teams should not be able to check out the other team on their scanner before they warp in. Team 1 and team 2 should never be in scan range of each other until they are both warping to the arena.
In the last tournament one could easily figure out what they were fighting by using the scanner.
Its far more fun to learn what you're fighting when you land, not when you are getting ready to warp in.
other then that - I can't wait! ---- VHI - We Haul Your Cargo For Free ---- We Miss you Red 7. |
Ikoras
Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.29 21:03:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Tobias Lee Hmm the above countered by 4 Paladins 2 Malus and 4 kitsunes :)
ummm..... not really. them paladins would accomplish nothing other than a good tank
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Sigras
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Posted - 2008.11.29 22:10:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CCP Claw Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
noted, but did you notice that everyone is yet to suggest a setup that includes frigates?
again i ask why are half of the ships effectively eliminated from practicality in this tourney?
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Derwent
Caldari Free Lapland The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.11.29 22:43:00 -
[146]
No t÷talhelldeath?
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Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners
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Posted - 2008.11.30 00:06:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Ruiryu Edited by: Ruiryu on 29/11/2008 20:09:53
Originally by: CCP Claw Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
I agree with you Claw. With this new point system CCP has set up it allows people to be VERY creative. People just need to start thinking out side of the box and stop using the first thing that comes to mind. If people were to stop and clearly think about the possibilities they will see there is a lot of things that they can do with this tourny that they couldn't in others.
Surely by reducing the number of options (by taking away logistics) avilable you are reducing creativity. The maruaders thing is just because they are better than T1 BSs in every way except sensorstrength and thats not hard to correct. Alot of the fights that were considered highlights of the last tournament (most of noterietys ones for example) contained logistics and there were some fun explosive setups to get around the dual logistics who can forget Huns demolition of a dual guardian team with 10 ruptures that was tense, close, exciting and creative. Just making dual logistics hard to field would be enough and tbh if logisitcs were say 30 points and someone fielded 2 and 2 BSs they would still struggle against 5 BSs due to the sheer damage they could be taking (5 gank BS with Artys or similar high volley damage anyone?). Tho i would admit they would probably need to be around 32 points so dual log dual battleship was impossible
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Ohne
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.30 00:59:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Sigras
Originally by: CCP Claw Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
noted, but did you notice that everyone is yet to suggest a setup that includes frigates?
again i ask why are half of the ships effectively eliminated from practicality in this tourney?
This is quite intresting. While we have lower point cost for each ship, we still have the same amount of players fielded. Therefore fielding frigates and low point ship classes will probably be just because you had those 3 points left or just not at all. I dont see frigates having any tactical value with the current point costs.
I would have liked to see maby 12 players or something but then again it doesnt really matter.
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Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
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Posted - 2008.11.30 07:25:00 -
[149]
Looking forward to this! Got really tired of the repping crap last year. And more bulkier ships is good too. Liking the rules changes.
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Khamal Kahn
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.30 08:04:00 -
[150]
Originally by: CCP Claw Look at this thread...
"9 Drakes will be OP"
"9 Ishtars will be OP"
"ECM will be everywhere"
"Marauders are too OP for their points"
I think its pretty clear that there are a lot of possible setups going on here.
You are my hero
see ya at the tourny
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