Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 10:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Myrhial Arkenath on 27/11/2008 10:51:59 As originally posted here.
The current situation: Currently several roleplaying channels exist within EVE that act as a bar (famous example: The Last Gate), a gym, a club, and many more places that borrow themselves well to social interaction.
The problem: With Ambulation the idea seems to be that these can be converted into 3D environments, footage of Fanfest shows us a bar for example. This means that if someone wants to visit a place, they have to be at the location, which just might be on the other side of the cluster!
The solution: The roleplaying community of EVE seems to agree on the existance of holoprojectors. A holoprojector is a device that is installed at the destination, which you can connect to from a remote location, and projects a 3D holo of yourself that can walk around and see things from first person view. Others can see your holo and interact with it in a limited way.
Ways of implementation:
- Owners of a bar, corp office ect. can purchase this device and install it, upon which the service becomes available.
- Same as above, but holoprojectors are a station service. This may require you having been at the station before, just as with clones.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:00:00 -
[2]
Supporting myself, of course!
Diary of a pod pilot |
Jah'Ret Khan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:00:00 -
[3]
Or just use a chat channel. If you're too lazy to go somewhere why should that be promoted? Shouldn't RP be serious business? ************************** We go ZOOM-ZOOM! You go BOOM-BOOM!
|
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jah'Ret Khan Or just use a chat channel. If you're too lazy to go somewhere why should that be promoted? Shouldn't RP be serious business?
This isn't just about RP. It is about making sure all stations will have people in them. Certainly if this becomes a station service. Think of the benefits for your own alliance for example. You can have the CEO's and directors of various corps gather in one station through this and have a meeting in style, rather than a boring old group chat.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Jah'Ret Khan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:22:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jah''Ret Khan on 27/11/2008 11:22:58
Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath
Originally by: Jah'Ret Khan Or just use a chat channel. If you're too lazy to go somewhere why should that be promoted? Shouldn't RP be serious business?
This isn't just about RP. It is about making sure all stations will have people in them. Certainly if this becomes a station service. Think of the benefits for your own alliance for example. You can have the CEO's and directors of various corps gather in one station through this and have a meeting in style, rather than a boring old group chat.
Stations will have NPCs in them. If you weant to reap the advantage of hanging out with your friends in avatar you have to pay the cost of actually getting off your ass and going their.
Ambulation is not designed so that people who never undock can play Second Life in EVE. It's a social tool that is to work with the res tof the game.
So you want to get to that high stakes poker game in lowsec? You'd best move fast and avoid the pirates.
Really worried about not being able to make Corp Parties? Have a Corp Party jump clone ready at the Bar you use.
It's brilliant the way it is being planned right now, and diluting it with mediocrity is not a positive move for it.
I do not think CCP should waste hundreds of man hours programming holoprojectors and how they work because players are too lazy to fly their spaceship in an internet spaceship game.
Make sense? ************************** We go ZOOM-ZOOM! You go BOOM-BOOM!
|
Wanoah
Msana Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:23:00 -
[6]
I think that this is something that the developers should consider for the mid to long term development of the Eve world outside our ships.
I'm actually not too fussed about the roleplaying angle as it goes, I just think that it's a general point that ambulation will be a lot more useful if people that can't physically be at a place can still interact with the players that can. Say your corporation are gathering in the corp office in Pator, but you're still stuck over in some obscure ****hole like 9UY4-H and can't get over there. You still want to be able to be involved somehow. Some kind of flickery low res holographic projection would be excellent ("Help me Obi Wan etc.")
|
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:28:00 -
[7]
You have a point Jah'Ret Khan, but not entirely. Holo's should indeed be limited in what they can do, to promote moving around, but saying jump clones is the solution is not entirely correct. This means that you'd have to give all your clones implants and can only move back after 24 hours. Which means you are actually limiting social interaction rather than promoting it.
Also I am suggesting this now because the dev team can easily plan it in. Who knows, maybe they already got something similar planned? Or maybe even better? It never hurts to ask, and not trying is always losing
Diary of a pod pilot |
Jah'Ret Khan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 11:48:00 -
[8]
Another more real problem with holo projecting is stress loading on the Ambulation server. The system as you explain it allows all 40,000 people online to "holo" themselves into Jita at once. Mass swarming and crashing these servers becomes too logistically easy.
Sure they could impose player limits ons tation Ambulation, but do you really want to be excluded from the party because there's "too many" people in the station?
Wouldn't you rather just fly there and be guarenteed a place in the fun? ************************** We go ZOOM-ZOOM! You go BOOM-BOOM!
|
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 12:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jah'Ret Khan Another more real problem with holo projecting is stress loading on the Ambulation server. The system as you explain it allows all 40,000 people online to "holo" themselves into Jita at once. Mass swarming and crashing these servers becomes too logistically easy.
Sure they could impose player limits ons tation Ambulation, but do you really want to be excluded from the party because there's "too many" people in the station?
Wouldn't you rather just fly there and be guarenteed a place in the fun?
If 40,000 people are going to fly to the station then the system is going to crash as well, so that doesn't always guarantee a place in the fun.
Sounds like a good security measure though to limit the amount of holo connections. If only to motivate people to go to the station so they won't have to fight over a holo place.
Diary of a pod pilot |
Shirley Serious
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 14:50:00 -
[10]
Perhaps just have an Interbus depot on the station, whereby you can ambulate to it, then take the bus to where you want to be?
Travelling on the bus to somewhere then also becomes a game in itself. Perhaps others are also travelling, and you can talk with them on the journey?
Especially if there's a distinct route for the buses, and you have to change at certain stations to get a bus to a specific destination.
Ofc, the bus would take time and isk, and once you arrive you won't have a ship there, so you'd have to make the journey back before you could undock or do other non-Ambulatory stuff.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
|
Mithfindel
Gariushi Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 14:57:00 -
[11]
As a note, according to the first, old designs the maximum amount of people at a specific room is limited. As such, the 40k people in a single bar isn't a realistic scenario, and would be easy to implement in an in-character way, as well. ("The maximum amount of connections to this Augmented Reality node have been reached. You're #29876 in the queue, please wait.") There might be other concerns, though, like blocking people from entering by remote connecting to the location, though likely it couldn't block people in if every place has access to the elevators (assumed "quick transport system" around the station).
Also, there could be (optional) connection fees, also explaining in-character why people would want to invest to a holoprojector in their establishment. Of course, if the same module is available for corp offices, it could have other uses, like having all the people in the "same" room for viewing tactical maps (or then the tactical map should be synced across different offices and/or inspace map views).
|
Shintoko Akahoshi
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 17:02:00 -
[12]
I'm heavily in favor of this, especially the "as a station service" option, as it would allow people to go to a remote station and move around the whole station. Saying "oh, ambulation only exists to promote off-ship interaction for people who go to the station", and "invest in jump clones if you really care" actually would end up meaning "empty stations".
It's a vicious circle, really. In order to walk around a station, you'll have to press a button or something to get out of your ship and walk around. If there's no one in the station, wherever that may be, save the very rare occasion... well, then you just won't press that button. If we allow some sort of mechanism for people to ambulate in other stations than the one they are in, whether it be via special "ambulation clones" or Interbus or holoprojectors, then more people will ambulate. Sure, there will obviously end up being hub stations that have lots of ambulation action, and others which do not. At least, though, the stations *with* action will have lots of it.
Seriously, think about it. If ambulation is tied to the station you're docked in, how many people will be in your station? I hang out in Airkio a lot. It's not an empty system, by a long shot. At the same time, judging by the number of people in it, the stations won't be jumping. If you hang out somewhere in low sec, or Syndicate, or any of the bazillion places where you're likely to be the only one in system? Too bad. Sure, Jita will be hopping. Think about the people it will be hopping with, though. You'll ambulate into a bar, only to see "Navy Vexor, 80M!!!" - "SELING CHEEP ISK!!!!" - "Orestes Modified Jock Strap 800MOBO". Is that what you want ambulation to be like?
Shin's writings
|
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 17:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Myrhial Arkenath on 27/11/2008 17:59:27
Originally by: Shirley Serious Perhaps just have an Interbus depot on the station, whereby you can ambulate to it, then take the bus to where you want to be?
Travelling on the bus to somewhere then also becomes a game in itself. Perhaps others are also travelling, and you can talk with them on the journey?
Especially if there's a distinct route for the buses, and you have to change at certain stations to get a bus to a specific destination.
Ofc, the bus would take time and isk, and once you arrive you won't have a ship there, so you'd have to make the journey back before you could undock or do other non-Ambulatory stuff.
This is an entirely different solution, but one I could also find myself in favor off. Has it's own pro's and con's. As long as -something- is done I will be happy Maybe you should throw this one up in a different thread and see how popular it is?
Also very good point there Shinto, even with an access list on a bar that is going to become a problem. ISK sellers also spring to mind X_X
Diary of a pod pilot |
I SoStoned
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 18:01:00 -
[14]
Agreed.
There are so many stations that no one will be able to assemble at 'just one'.
Holo-projectors should enable a distant character to project themselves to a remote location, but they can only interract with the other people at that location. They can't work the market or contract systems from their remote location.
Yes, they could just use a chat channel or voice, and they will. But for the visual imersion some may want to 'be there' and remote projection is the only viable path to that.
|
Silver Night
Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 23:13:00 -
[15]
I agree. from early on, a concern that CCP must be aware of but hasn't talked about at all is that you are going to have a lot of empty stations. Eve, populous though it seems, just doesn't have the sort of numbers that would be needed to populate these hang out except in specific, mostly high security, systems.
This also promotes the entire fame/notoriety aspect that the single server architecture is so good at creating. Making your place interesting enough to become famous won't help if noone will visit it and notice.
For people with somewhat limited play time particularly, they are not going to want to take the time to travel to a location to hang out when they could much more easily use a chat channel. Interesting and compelling though interaction via actual 3D avatars might be, it just wouldn't be worth the time investment.
It would be a shame if something like this wasn't included. As it is a significant part of Eve is waiting - but it is usually waiting in a specific place for a specific thing to happen. The start of the next op, the fleet being ready to move, the invention job coming off the line. Ambulation is an ideal way to make that down time interesting by giving you something to fill it with, turning what was previously a flaw into one of Eve's strengths. However it become untenable if you can't snap right back to the spaceship side when and where you need to.
So make it limited, sure. But put it in so that we don't have a hideous mess in Jita and a forsaken - if pretty - wasteland everywhere else. --------------
The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
|
Verone
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 00:28:00 -
[16]
Fully in support of this, given the general consensus in the RP community.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Devilish Ledoux
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 01:40:00 -
[17]
I'm down with this, because it's better than retooling the jump clone system to accomodate barhopping. _
|
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 23:28:00 -
[18]
This is a bit of a difficult idea - it has the potential to be used as an intel tool as you can find out who's in a station remotely?
Its also anti-immersive, which I am surprised that the role players would be for. Not signed. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces |
Silver Night
Caldari Naqam Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 23:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: El Yatta This is a bit of a difficult idea - it has the potential to be used as an intel tool as you can find out who's in a station remotely?
Its also anti-immersive, which I am surprised that the role players would be for. Not signed.
Not at all an intel tool if it doesn't give you access to the station's roster o docked pilots. Maybe if they happen to be hnging out in the same bar as you.
I would argue, as a long time RPer, it would be more immersive. It would make sense that in Eve they would have developed an advanced tele-presence ability. --------------
The Clown Man. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Sansha's Nation Supporter
|
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
|
Posted - 2008.11.29 00:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: El Yatta Its also anti-immersive, which I am surprised that the role players would be for. Not signed.
It's not unianimously supported Mr Yatta.
|
|
Orb Vex
|
Posted - 2008.11.29 11:49:00 -
[21]
|
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.29 12:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Originally by: El Yatta Its also anti-immersive, which I am surprised that the role players would be for. Not signed.
It's not unianimously supported Mr Yatta.
Yep, seems there is a group all for and a group all against. While I know you can't please everyone with every new thing you implement, I see this suggestion more and more as a work in progress and food for thought about which impact Ambulation will have on roleplay. Of course Ambulation is for everyone to enjoy, so it should be tailored so it is an enjoyable addition for each play style It was also not my intention to speak on behalf of the entire roleplaying community, that would be rather naive of me. Sorry if it seemed like that!
Diary of a pod pilot |
Vendrin
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 07:51:00 -
[23]
|
zakear dragon
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 00:40:00 -
[24]
this is being implemented into the walk in station feacher in the next expantion on march 10th
|
Captain Narmio
Baptism oF Fire
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 02:49:00 -
[25]
How exactly is this anti-immersive? The concept that you have to be in the same physical place with somebody to have a face-to-face meeting with them is already becoming a thing of the past.
Webcam conference calls, virtual meeting rooms, 3D spatialised sound systems... Even the projection technology that you're talking about implementing in game almost exists right now, it's certainly less than a decade away. And this is in 2008, EVE is set tens of thousands of years from now. If anything the inability to have anything but text-based interaction with someone distant is a serious immersion breaker.
This won't be a simple implementation - new Ambulation content will have to be added, "Holoprojector booths" that you can walk up to and project across the cluster, in addition to new shaders for the "hologram" effect. Those aren't that tricky. The problem is whether the EVE architecture can actually support you being in the Ambulation node of station B while your pod is located in station A. I imagine there would be a number of tricky distinctions for which support may not exist.
Still, it's awesome and should definitely exist, I'd like to see the idea put forward.
|
Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:46:00 -
[26]
Done right, this would enable socialising without real interaction (e.g. buying things) for a fee, a EVE-style long-distance telephone call if you will.
Given that this is exactly how current 'bars' work, and that real station services will be hard to find (16 slots per station, no way to advertise that your specific bar is in System X, Station 5-5, Moon B) I actually see Ambulation as being very very dull in quiet stations without this sort of service.
Then again I argued the same in the original thread, so no real surprises there. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
|
Jade Valkrye
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 01:31:00 -
[27]
I would prefer if any the Interbus method of travel. Make it faster than ship travel but cost money to do. This IMO would be awesome, ie. "Hey great party 26 jumps from here" "wow that's a long ways I don't want to waste my time", "We can take interbus" and your there 5-10 minutes later.
|
Horatius Caul
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 02:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Captain Narmio
Webcam conference calls, virtual meeting rooms, 3D spatialised sound systems... Even the projection technology that you're talking about implementing in game almost exists right now, it's certainly less than a decade away. And this is in 2008, EVE is set tens of thousands of years from now. If anything the inability to have anything but text-based interaction with someone distant is a serious immersion breaker.
You're talking about a single-planet system with multi-Mb/s transfer rates. Prime fiction clearly states that the bandwidth of a fluid router is very low, which is why text messaging is the prime mode of communication between capsuleers.
I will not support the suggestion for various reasons, but it does raise a relevant point. Ambulation will see a lot of people walking around alone in stations, even in system with high traffic. On the flipside, the opening of high-profile meeting places will attract people to dock at new places, possibly rerouting parts of the economy as one popular joint attracts more people, leading to the development of a small market hub, etc.
Ambulation will not be without its problems, but this suggestion is not addressing one of them. Rather, it addresses a symptom and I think that the suggestion will in fact have a negative effect on the potential Ambulation has for development of the game world.
/thumbdown. -----
|
yani dumyat
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 14:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jah'Ret Khan
40,000 people online to "holo" themselves into Jita at once. Mass swarming and crashing these servers becomes too logistically easy.
Employ a few Brutors, the low intelligence statistic makes them very good bouncers
If you don't have holographic projectors then what do people in this futuristic world of warp drives and implants use to communicate, telephones and chat boxes?
The bus idea would change the game a lot as i can see people who are camped in a station just taking the bus out so not sure about this unless the bus becomes vulnerable at some point
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> If in doubt then all is good If not in doubt then ask yourself harder questions |
Vivian Ramasita
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 15:08:00 -
[30]
I am absolutely in favor of this. With the kind of technology present in this world, the idea of having to actually travel to a place to experience being there is kind of lame.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |