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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Heimdall
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Posted - 2008.11.28 20:17:00 -
[1]
Greetings all Sisi capsuleers!
Singularity is now running with some changes to the user interface. While the visual experience of the UI should be mostly the same, these changes are designed to improve game performance. We think you should be able to feel a real difference, so please go check it out, bring all your friends, and report any issues to us û we need your help to make the awesomeness that is EVE even better!
Next week, we will make additions to those changes and will announce them as well. Also, we are planning some events on Sisi next week so we can try the UI changes out in some really exciting situations.
We are looking to moving these changes to TQ after we are satisfied that they have been successful, and we need your help and input to make this a huge success.
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Vina
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vina on 29/11/2008 07:35:17 does this mean we can play eve with the 2d squares turned on now? -----------------------------------
my opinion is my own. |
Callistus
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.29 10:47:00 -
[3]
Just tested this on premium, in windowed mode at 1440x900. Running on an 8800GT, core2duo 6300 and 2GB of ram. Sat in space, no other ships but with every single window open. Identical scene on each client.
TQ - 38fps Sisi - 55fps
So not bad, but considering that's down from 153fps with no windows open, its not a great improvement.
Can we expect bigger improvements in the the overview and brackets? Can't really test that till we get a fleet fight on sisi and even then its difficult to directly compare one fleet fight to another in terms of performance. ------------
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.29 10:49:00 -
[4]
The day i can have Drone-brackets on during fleet fights, is it coming closer? ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Hayaishi
Gallente Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2008.11.29 11:28:00 -
[5]
i guess this is why the UI was so fubar yesterday? and i did notice my bracket settings having been reset.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.29 21:00:00 -
[6]
Now we just need things like the Lag Clouds in Blockade to be removed. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. |
Sevarus James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.12.01 03:39:00 -
[7]
As I'm using wine (1.1.9) take this as you will:
Tranq: with UI windows up in space: 28-35fps SISI: with UI windows up in space: 32-44fps
Tranq: in station with UI windows up: 60-80fps SISI: in station with UI windows up: 80-120fps
I see a short spike "down" when loading an interface such as markets/wallet/journal, but once its done loading, the fps jumps back to normal immediately on SISI. Much improved.
Under "official linux" client the maps have been a real fps killer, and this is the same under wine...but there is a HUGE improvement to map views (f11) under wine (fps-wise) on SISI. --fps under f11 now only a couple fps lower than normal non map views.
f10 is still buggered though gfx wise under cedega and wine at this point.
Anyway, this is premium gfx client (windows) + wine 1.1.9, so as I said earlier, take that as you will.
Hardware: amd 3800 x2 dualcore nforce4 gigabyte motherboard 4gig ram nvidia 8800GTS ubuntu 8.10 wine 1.1.9
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.12.01 11:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Callistus Just tested this on premium, in windowed mode at 1440x900. Running on an 8800GT, core2duo 6300 and 2GB of ram. Sat in space, no other ships but with every single window open. Identical scene on each client.
TQ - 38fps Sisi - 55fps
So not bad, but considering that's down from 153fps with no windows open, its not a great improvement.
It's a pretty great improvement.
FPS is not a linear measurement. Going from 55FPS to 153FPS is actually only slightly more of a performance increase than going from 38FPS to 55FPS. |
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CCP Heimdall
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Posted - 2008.12.03 11:43:00 -
[9]
Howdy again,
We have added some additional changes to Sisi which are designed to improve performance. These include options which will allow you to deactivate certain graphical features, which will greatly improve the performance of the client in high load situations. Another thing that you will want to do to get the best possible performance during fleet fights and the like is to turn off brackets. Instructions for this can be found here.
We have planned a big fleet fight for downtime tomorrow to test this stuff out (Thursday December 4th - please show up a bit before 11:00 AM GMT). Details will be here, and the feedback thread is here.
Please note that these changes affect the Premium client only, not Classic.
Here are some basic instructions for using the new UI options:
In the "Display & Graphics" and "General Settings" tabs in the esc menu you will notice some new options:
Disable camera shake: This is the shaking effect you get when you are hit by a missile, entering warp, etc. Though the effect itself is not terribly costly for the GPU, we found it got in the way a bit too much during battle, so we've given you the option to turn it off.
Disable Ship explosions: Ship explosions are somewhat costly for the GPU to render. Though they are not enough by themselves to slow your client down, in a prolonged battle with explosions happening all over the place, it adds up quite quickly. By disabling this option you should find a much smoother experience when you go into battle. (Note, "warp-in lag" is not affected by this)
Disable Drone models: In a fleet battle of a few hundred pilots, it is quite easy to have hundreds, if not thousands of drones on screen at one time. By disabling the rendering of these models we are able to free up a fairly considerable amount of GPU resources. Note that toggling this option will give best results for large battles or other situations where there are many many drones on screen at one time.
Disable Tactical Notifications: Along with being able to disable damage notifications we now allow you to disable the tactical notifications. These are messages such as "XXX is trying to warp scramble YYYY" and "CCP Tanis. Has initiated self-destruct". This was done both as a minor performance tweak and also because we felt it might be nice to be able to turn them off so you can focus on the battle instead of messages.
Under the hood: As a result of the testing we've been conducting the past few weeks we've isolated a few other points within the UI and the graphics engine that we can tweak and change to gain performance.
One such change involved the rendering of turrets on ships in the premium client. We have altered the graphics engine so that it will not render turrets on a ship except under two conditions: 1.If the turret is being fired 2.If the ship the turrets are attached to is being viewed (ie. "look at")
We have also improved on the functionality of the FPS monitor that is built into the client. We now allow you to export data from the FPS monitor into your clipboard so that you can paste that data into a bug report, or other document. The FPS monitor is now also "always on top" even if you completely disable the UI.
We have also made many bug-fixes and other minor tweaks to the client that have improved performance and/or useability a little bit.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.03 15:17:00 -
[10]
Hello,
Originally by: CCP Heimdall One such change involved the rendering of turrets on ships in the premium client. We have altered the graphics engine so that it will not render turrets on a ship except under two conditions: 1.If the turret is being fired 2.If the ship the turrets are attached to is being viewed (ie. "look at")
For clarification, does this mean that even in a small scene of just a handful of ships turrets will not be rendered unless the camera is specifically responding to a Look At command? I forsee this being problematic for video/machinima producers. If this is the case perhaps it would be best to make this optional.
Thanks in advance.
The Angel Cartel (Push Eject) Next movie premiering January 2009 |
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Callistus
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:07:00 -
[11]
Good stuff ------------
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:53:00 -
[12]
To CCP, have youguys thought about adding some sort of saving the settings, similar to the overview savings, so that i can safe a preset for fleetfightts and after that quickly change back to roaming high graphic sets?
Would safe alot of ppl alot of hassle, no idea if possible tho. -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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CCP Heimdall
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
For clarification, does this mean that even in a small scene of just a handful of ships turrets will not be rendered unless the camera is specifically responding to a Look At command? I forsee this being problematic for video/machinima producers.
Yes, the turrets will not be rendered unless they are firing or the ship is being Looked At.
For video and so on, this can be easily resolved by instructing the camera to Look At all of the ships that you wish to film - all of the turrets on those ships will be fully rendered.
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CCP Heimdall
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Posted - 2008.12.03 17:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Callistus If turrets are only rendered when they are being fired, will they still be rendered if they are being fired but you have turret effects disabled?
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are ON, then both the turret and the effect (i.e. the weapon beam) will be rendered.
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are OFF, then the turret will be rendered but the effect will not.
If the turret is NOT firing (or being Looked At), then regardless of turret effect settings, turrets will not be rendered and effects - well, there will be none.
Hope this helps. I have reworded the post above to make this a bit more clear (I hope). Thanks!
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Jocca Quinn
Matari BackBone Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Heimdall
Please note that these changes affect the Premium client only, not Classic.
Is that a case of these changes cannot be made to the classic client or just that you've only got them done on the premium so far ?
My guess would be the former. Oh well time to try premium again then.
JQ
none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free |
Jack Researcher
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Posted - 2008.12.03 22:10:00 -
[16]
When SiSi will back on? Can i ask here when will be the next mirror?
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.04 03:56:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda on 04/12/2008 03:56:54
Originally by: CCP Heimdall For video and so on, this can be easily resolved by instructing the camera to Look At all of the ships that you wish to film - all of the turrets on those ships will be fully rendered.
So the engine will remember which ships I have looked at in the current scene load and render for those regardless of whether or not they're currently being looked at or set as the parent object?
The Angel Cartel (Push Eject) Next movie premiering January 2009 |
Sevarus James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sevarus James on 04/12/2008 21:36:01 holy crap. period. wine 1.1.9 + premium again... the new client (5.20.71227) is 10-25 fps faster...WITHOUT unchecking anything for the effects side.
tranq space: 28-35fps average 33fps
sisi space: 38-59fps (same conditions, undock, obit station, warp to gate, orbit gate, return). average 45fps
sisi fps with no UI (ctrl+f9) same test: 55fps - 89fps (average 64fps)
Again, this is wine+ubuntu 8.10 (plus using the new beta 180.11 nvidia drivers), but the difference is huge here.
tests without compiz manager were roughtly 2-3% higher than using compiz.
AND........f11 minimaps are working!
Hardware: amd 3800 x2 dual core 4gig corsair ram nforce4 moboard (nk407 sound) nvidia 8800gts ubuntu 8.10 wine 1.1.9 eve premium
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Heimdall Edited by: CCP Heimdall on 03/12/2008 17:41:24
Disable Drone models: In a fleet battle of a few hundred pilots, it is quite easy to have hundreds, if not thousands of drones on screen at one time. By disabling the rendering of these models we are able to free up a fairly considerable amount of GPU resources. Note that toggling this option will give best results for large battles or other situations where there are many many drones on screen at one time.
This one looks really promising for fleet fights.
Would be excellent to have a TQ patch with this before the holidays. ...
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 00:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Heimdall
Originally by: Callistus If turrets are only rendered when they are being fired, will they still be rendered if they are being fired but you have turret effects disabled?
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are ON, then both the turret and the effect (i.e. the weapon beam) will be rendered.
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are OFF, then the turret will be rendered but the effect will not.
If the turret is NOT firing (or being Looked At), then regardless of turret effect settings, turrets will not be rendered and effects - well, there will be none.
Hope this helps. I have reworded the post above to make this a bit more clear (I hope). Thanks!
Please make that optional also (even if you set it to activated by default!)
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Taka
Caldari Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2008.12.06 11:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Heimdall Edited by: CCP Heimdall on 03/12/2008 17:41:24
Please note that these changes affect the Premium client only, not Classic.
Disable camera shake: This is the shaking effect you get when you are hit by a missile, entering warp, etc. Though the effect itself is not terribly costly for the GPU, we found it got in the way a bit too much during battle, so we've given you the option to turn it off.
Disable Ship explosions: Ship explosions are somewhat costly for the GPU to render. Though they are not enough by themselves to slow your client down, in a prolonged battle with explosions happening all over the place, it adds up quite quickly. By disabling this option you should find a much smoother experience when you go into battle. (Note, "warp-in lag" is not affected by this)
Disable Drone models: In a fleet battle of a few hundred pilots, it is quite easy to have hundreds, if not thousands of drones on screen at one time. By disabling the rendering of these models we are able to free up a fairly considerable amount of GPU resources. Note that toggling this option will give best results for large battles or other situations where there are many many drones on screen at one time.
Disable Tactical Notifications: Along with being able to disable damage notifications we now allow you to disable the tactical notifications. These are messages such as "XXX is trying to warp scramble YYYY" and "CCP Tanis. Has initiated self-destruct". This was done both as a minor performance tweak and also because we felt it might be nice to be able to turn them off so you can focus on the battle instead of messages. [/list]
will we see these option made available for the classic client?
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Sleepkevert
Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.06 13:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Taka will we see these option made available for the classic client?
I think you missed the important yellow bit you quoted as well.
Quote: Please note that these changes affect the Premium client only, not Classic.
_
Add your own line! |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.06 20:36:00 -
[23]
The FPS improvement on SISI is significant overall. Nice!
However the Tactical Overlay consumes a lot of resources. The FPS reduction is from around 5% (91 -> 86 FPS) when zoomed in with 1 ship and an outpost in the frame, to around 17% (187 -> 160 FPS) when zoomed out to 200km with only one ship in the frame. I guess I need to find a more populated grid to see what the impact is for smaller FPS values. ...
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Taka
Caldari Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop
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Posted - 2008.12.06 23:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Originally by: Taka will we see these option made available for the classic client?
I think you missed the important yellow bit you quoted as well.
Quote: Please note that these changes affect the Premium client only, not Classic.
no, i didnt miss it, i was asking wether those options will be made available for classic aswell.
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Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.07 12:47:00 -
[25]
hey hey
Am i being totally stupid or are you guys simply removing all the shiny from the game in order to save on performance. ?
letting pilots remove all the graphic options and effects as well as logs and notifications doesnt seem to actually tackle the issue of lag :/ IF we continue on this course then all we will have left is an overview and a blank screen.
back of house changes and tweaks to imnprove performance seem to have taken a step back in favor of removal of the glory of eve.
From a marketing perspective this is also a very bad step. When you advertise premium graphics with all the bling of internet spaceships but you have to switch it all off to have a game thats playable it hardly seems fair :/
btw are Fighters included in the drone options as fighters cause an obscene amount of lag.
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Vicious Merquise
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Posted - 2008.12.08 06:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Amida Ta
Originally by: CCP Heimdall
Originally by: Callistus If turrets are only rendered when they are being fired, will they still be rendered if they are being fired but you have turret effects disabled?
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are ON, then both the turret and the effect (i.e. the weapon beam) will be rendered.
If the turret is firing (or being Looked at) and turret effects are OFF, then the turret will be rendered but the effect will not.
If the turret is NOT firing (or being Looked At), then regardless of turret effect settings, turrets will not be rendered and effects - well, there will be none.
Hope this helps. I have reworded the post above to make this a bit more clear (I hope). Thanks!
Please make that optional also (even if you set it to activated by default!)
If I might add to this, and I not trying to be harsh. ^_^ I think everyone but the true programmers got this idea backwards and might blow this thing out of proportion. Why you ask?
1. Well users like me using high end graphics cards and devoting the use of its technology for the purposes of game play by EVE is most honorable thing I can think of. Instead of wasting it on poorly supported frame rates such as WoW or War hammer, users like me choose to put my gaming rig to the test when it comes to EvE.
2. Seems to me the ones who have high end graphic cards are blessed with no lag what so ever and for those complaining about lag just have yet to upgrade there version to Premium if there still stuck in classic mode. As if that's the sheer mechanics of CCPs fault?
3. Maybe it is likewise that the majority of players in classic version either choose to upgrade to premium with the right requirements or stop complaining about how laggy it is in EvE.
Ever sense I upgraded and started playing on premium graphics life got a whole lot easier in EvE. It's not the effects of a missile or turret that makes it laggy in EvE world, its your nasty **** and corrupted files from the internet that laggs your comp!!! >_< Also EvE is built for Intel enough said.
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CCP Heimdall
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Posted - 2008.12.08 15:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mikal Drey Edited by: Mikal Drey on 07/12/2008 13:17:24 Am i being totally stupid or are you guys simply removing all the shiny from the game in order to save on performance. ?
letting pilots remove all the graphic options and effects as well as logs and notifications doesnt seem to actually tackle the issue of lag :/ IF we continue on this course then all we will have left is an overview and a blank screen.
back of house changes and tweaks to imnprove performance seem to have taken a step back in favor of removal of the glory of eve.
btw are Fighters included in the drone options as fighters cause an obscene amount of lag.
Shouldnt the goal be to have all effects and graphics showing in a 300 V 300 fleet fight in jita on a sunday afternoon with no lag
Not a stupid question at all.
The fact is that we are attacking client performance from many different directions, not simply allowing people to turn off graphical features. That is but one aspect (there are also plenty of "back-of-house changes" and "tweaks"), and we estimate a noticeable positive performance impact after this patch even for those that leave all of the graphical options on.
In addition, we have added the capability of turning off some graphical options so that players can fine-tune their view based on their activity - Someone running a single-player mission or sight-seeing will have different needs than a commander in a major battle, for example - much as someone driving to the store will have different data needs than someone driving a tank on the battlefield.
Of course our ultimate goal is similar to what you mention, but there is no one magic bullet for that, and though what you describe is likely not possible (300 v 300 fleet fight on Jita on a Sunday afternoon with no lag), it is still our ultimate goal. Until then, we must address performance issues in many different areas over time, and we believe that the UI performance improvements that we are previewing on Sisi right now will be a big step for us in that direction. The ability to turn off graphical effects is but one small part of what has been changed.
Also, yes, the fighetrs and drones are controlled by the same setting.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.12.08 17:02:00 -
[28]
Gauging by what I'm seeing so far with SISI, even WITHOUT turning off ANY effects, the fps has jumped considerably.
When you said may not possible...........make SURE you add "now" or "with CURRENT technology". Remembering when EVE was released in 03, some of the stuff we're doing NOW wasn't even a REMOTE hope then.
The technology never rests, and as it improves so shall EVE.
TWO THUMBS UP from this neck o' the woods with what is being done with the client, and keep it up!
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Alexander Knott
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.08 23:25:00 -
[29]
How about adding configurable sets of settings, like with the overview? That way players can create easy to choose sets of settings based on their current activity.
Unrelated, but perhaps a bit related: how about keeping separate window/ui element positions for windowed mode and full screen mode?
----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..." |
Sevarus James
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.12.09 02:43:00 -
[30]
fps counter says it all. SISI fps pic link
Build 71567 on SISI. This is nearly 30 fps FASTER than the same ship/position/station on Tranquility.
ubuntu 8.10 wine 1.1.10 SISI build: 71567
all effects, brackets, etc. = on. Average fps for busy environment is now showing 48-54fps and that is like getting a new pc for me.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
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