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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.03.30 02:10:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Pponmypupu
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
In theory, you are correct, a proper PvP fit destroyer will rip a frigate apart in seconds. In reality, however, very few destroyers are flown by high-skill PvP pilots. The vast majority of them are flown by newbie carebears looking for their first upgrade from a frigate before they have the skills for a cruiser, and are very easy kills.
i dunno. if i were in a destroyer and a frigate jumped me, pve fit or not i would think i could handle him simply because i have more guns/high innate tracking speed. even for noobs like me itd just be a matter of target lock and twiddle your thumbs... unless i am missing something here i still don't see how destroyers are easy kills for frigates.
More guns, but same DPS due to the ROF penalty. And considerably less tank than a frig. And often range fit, and tracking bonus or no, ranged guns wont track a close orbiting frig. __
Recruiting
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.30 04:38:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 30/03/2009 04:44:34
Originally by: Skira Ranos More guns, but same DPS due to the ROF penalty. And considerably less tank than a frig. And often range fit, and tracking bonus or no, ranged guns wont track a close orbiting frig.
Not really. The ROF penalty simply brings them down the dps of 5-6 guns, they're still going to out-gank a 3-gun T1 frigate by a large margin. And out-tank it too, with higher base HP and more cap/fitting for tank mods. Sig radius and speed (the usual killers of a destroyer's tank) aren't going to be a problem, since frigate guns will nearly always hit for full damage no matter what your sig. Tracking is a bit more of an issue if they're long-range fit, a 50% tracking bonus is huge, but if you can survive to get into a very tight orbit, you can out-run their tracking. Only problem is that's a big if... those long range fits are quite effective at ripping apart a frigate before it gets anywhere near that 500m orbit.
Just looking at the ships themselves, the destroyer should win 90% of the time. The only reason they don't is because good destroyer pilots are almost nonexistent. IMO, destroyers are one of the most underrated classes. If you can ensure you aren't going to have to face cruisers/BCs/BBs (where your sig/speed becomes a fatal problem), a destroyer is a very good choice for hunting frigates/inties/AFs.
Originally by: Pponmypupu i dunno. if i were in a destroyer and a frigate jumped me, pve fit or not i would think i could handle him simply because i have more guns/high innate tracking speed. even for noobs like me itd just be a matter of target lock and twiddle your thumbs... unless i am missing something here i still don't see how destroyers are easy kills for frigates.
See, here's the key point: the carebear target isn't you. Not only are they PvE fit (usually very badly PvE fit), but their skills are probably much lower and they don't have any PvP experience. You've almost always got enough of a skill (both player and character) advantage over a typical destroyer pilot that you'll kill them fairly easily.
Granted, it would probably be even easier for you if they were in a T1 frigate instead, but a destroyer is almost always a very possible target for a T1 frigate.
For example, here's a the most recent destroyer kills from the OP's killboard:
http://bloodmoney.eve-stuff.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1395
http://bloodmoney.eve-stuff.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1381
http://bloodmoney.eve-stuff.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1379
http://bloodmoney.eve-stuff.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=1369
Note how only one of them is anything even remotely approaching a proper PvP fit, while two of them are outright comedy killmails. Simply by following a decent fitting guide, your T1 frigate will very easily out-gank, out-tank, and out-run most destroyers, and that's not even cosidering the huge difference in PvP experience you're likely to benefit from.
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Pponmypupu
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Posted - 2009.04.02 21:59:00 -
[123]
i see. yeah some of those fits are uh..
....
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Lauren Sheaperd
Minmatar Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:13:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Just looking at the ships themselves, the destroyer should win 90% of the time. The only reason they don't is because good destroyer pilots are almost nonexistent. IMO, destroyers are one of the most underrated classes. If you can ensure you aren't going to have to face cruisers/BCs/BBs (where your sig/speed becomes a fatal problem), a destroyer is a very good choice for hunting frigates/inties/AFs.
I agree with most of what you said, but I dissagree on the Cruiser v Destroyer problem. I'm a fan of the Thrasher my self, and most of my best fights have been in one, and experiance has been different for me, see here;
http://bloodmoney.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=1182
http://bloodmoney.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=1195
http://bloodmoney.griefwatch.net/?p=details&kill=1201
http://bloodmoney.eve-stuff.co.uk/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=230
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Nusua Ja'Zaakh
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Posted - 2009.04.09 21:22:00 -
[125]
First of all : tnx for the guide, it's well written & enhanced my player-skills to c things in the Eve-universe which where a mystery to me.
But still, the optimistic tone of this guide & that of many pirate blogs i've read: 'ye, i said to myself, i'm gonne try this, rigged a frigate and on the first evening I killed x & x & x.. ' My experience is quiete a contrast to that. I dont have much game-time in a week, but the hours of teaching myself to be a master-scanner have tought me this: Maybe in the 'old days' of EvE but now, Apart of myself, there is no such thing as a wandering Noob in low-sec, happely mining roids or ratting low-sec goodies. 1/3the of the people encountered are alt's, doing in-station stuff. 1/3th are pirates, flying insane ships, 1/3th are are miners; not mining roids, but moons in heavely defended POS.
Granted, when I finally got frustrated enough to lay myself still as bait in an asteroid belt, i got jumped instantly by a Crow which couldnt kill my punisher & after a couple o minutes he jumped away. Which was the a super laugh and more a thrill then all the months of mission running I ever did. So is the anticipation of the hunt, the looking for targets. Every jump is excited when you have the expectation that scanned target will finally appear at the end of the tunnel.
I'll switch hunting-grounds a few times in the hope it's just bad luck before I give up on it. The low-sec space beyond Amamake is just empty or insane high-lvl.
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.10 02:16:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 10/04/2009 02:23:15 Edited by: Skira Ranos on 10/04/2009 02:17:50
Originally by: Nusua Ja'Zaakh
But still, the optimistic tone of this guide & that of many pirate blogs i've read: 'ye, i said to myself, i'm gonne try this, rigged a frigate and on the first evening I killed x & x & x.. ' My experience is quiete a contrast to that. I dont have much game-time in a week, but the hours of teaching myself to be a master-scanner have tought me this: Maybe in the 'old days' of EvE but now, Apart of myself, there is no such thing as a wandering Noob in low-sec, happely mining roids or ratting low-sec goodies. 1/3the of the people encountered are alt's, doing in-station stuff. 1/3th are pirates, flying insane ships, 1/3th are are miners; not mining roids, but moons in heavely defended POS.
Two things: "Ye olde days of eve" is a common misconception. Piracy is HARD HARD HARD work, and there never was a "good old days". It has always been hard, well at least it has for the 4 years I've been doing it. That said, you are wrong on the "there's no such thing". There IS such a thing, the problem lies in finding them before they spot you and run, before another pirate finds them first, or even just finding the system there in. Until you get very very good at hunting, they WILL elude you. Its a matter of patience and a matter of practice. I might have to amend the next edition of the guide to stress this:
Piracy is not easy. Piracy is not action-packed (unless you're very good and/or very lucky). Piracy is (one of) EVE's "Hard", "Expert", or "Very Hard" mode. It takes patience, skill, and lots and lots of practice before you start to get lots of good kills.
From the sound of it, you went on one roam. Great, good work. Looks like you discovered the basics of piracy: Everyone and their cousin has a massive ship/blob or is hiding in a POS. Even myself, having massive amounts of practice and a battlecruiser at minimum nowadays, only find viable targets every other roam. Now go on ten more roams, THEN if you don't get at least a few good fights, then you can complain. The life of the pirate is not an easy one, not by far, and I thought I stressed that in the guide. EVE is hard, and piracy, though a good way to get into PvP, is even harder.
Footnote: For those who might be ready to smack me, let me stress that I mean "solo" piracy and/or "frigate" piracy is hard. Yes, I am aware you can get OMGWTFUBAR kills camping gates/stations with 20+ man blobs, but to me that's not really piracy, or at least not my definition of fun piracy.
Edit: If I seem angry/confrontational in this post, I'm sorry. I was a bit... stressed RL when I wrote this. I mean everything I said, but I apologize for the tone. Just trying to be helpful
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Recruiting
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Shigsy
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:02:00 -
[127]
Never posted in this thread, and its a very detailed and well laid out guide. Grats
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Bai ZongTong
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.04.25 18:10:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Shigsy Never posted in this thread, and its a very detailed and well laid out guide. Grats
more like u just want to be on every single thread.
In conclusion, I think you should vote Larkonis Trassler for CSM.
Recruitment for girlfriend prospect: closed |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.04 01:52:00 -
[129]
Our policy is to keep stickies temporary and fresh.
It would be fantastic to port this over to the EVElopedia.
If you require any assistance in this matter please get in touch with us via petition under the Other Issues - Forums categories.
This thread will be unstickied in the near future.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.04 12:07:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 04/05/2009 12:08:02
Hmm... as much as I'd like to support the EVElopedia effort, and may indeed port this over there, I must say I'm a bit.. taken aback.
Is it possible to keep a sticky up here with a link to the EVElopedia article in question? The main reason this guide has been read so thoroughly is its stickied location.
Note: This threads "Reads" count at time of posting: 29049
The Official CnP resources thread: 2536
Now I know the resources thread has been recently reposted, but I seem to recall always seeing an extremely low number there. The accessibility of this guide is one of the things that's made it so effective, and helped many people get into piracy and have fun in game where they otherwise would not have gotten into PvP at all, or become frustrated and quit the game (as I originally did when I was learning PvP the hard way).
EVElopedia is wonderful, but in its current form gets a lot less attention than these forums do. I would love to support EVElopedia in growing and becoming the main guide/resource database for EVE, but it simply isn't acesed by as many noobies as CCP would probably like at the moment, whereas the EVE-O forums are.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Our policy is to keep stickies temporary and fresh.
Does that mean if I re-write the whole thing you'll sticky the new thread for that one? If so I'll sacrifice all my time in the next 3 days to writing a new edition. Anything? I urge you to reconsider this. __
Recruiting
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:28:00 -
[131]
/signed
I may have my disagreements with some points here, but it's just silly to un-sticky a thread that is clearly getting a lot of use. It might make sense if there was a better/newer guide to replace it, but as far as I know, there isn't, so why remove valuable information just because of some arbitrary time limit? ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:42:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Is it possible to keep a sticky up here with a link to the EVElopedia article in question? The main reason this guide has been read so thoroughly is its stickied location.
EVElopedia is wonderful, but in its current form gets a lot less attention than these forums do. I would love to support EVElopedia in growing and becoming the main guide/resource database for EVE, but it simply isn't acesed by as many noobies as CCP would probably like at the moment, whereas the EVE-O forums are.
I second this. EVElopedia is great, but you have to really go hunting for stuff in there. I think a lot of new players get their first taste of pvp thanks to this guide, and it will be read a lot less if it is there.
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Weight What
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:34:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball Move stale cakes to the storeroom. Allow space for the kitchen to prepare fresh delictations. Breathe in the transience of letters.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:11:00 -
[134]
I would move that this is far from stale. __
Recruiting
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Weight What
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:17:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Skira Ranos I would move that this is far from stale.
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball The mould spreads. Fresh air is required. Open the floodgates so that others may follow.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.12 18:01:00 -
[136]
Why the move now?
Burying it in EVElopedia isn't really a very good way to treat Skira after all this Guide didn't just fall form the sky it took time and effort to make and if anything deserves a sticky and to be stickied in it's rightful home of C&P, please reconsider the unstickying of this thread.
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Drake Omen
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Posted - 2009.05.13 11:51:00 -
[137]
I just started playing EVE about 4 days ago, within 2 days I had my first run in with a dirty pirate that shall remain nameless. There I was minding my own buisness mining some ore in .5 space, I had a jettison canister floating about 2000M away and happend to notice said pirate hanging there checking it out. I re-jettison the can and he follows to it, I send him a message... After a few minutes he laughs at me and accuses me of being an alt and as punishment steals all my ore, jettisons it from his ship... and blows it up. Then when 2 of my buddies warp in to the field he bolts like a cowardly pirate and sends me a message saying "Oh your buddy there has played since 2003? See ya later!"
Moral of the Story: Pirates are cowards and I dont like them. They pray on noobs and at the first sign of an experienced player they turn tail and run. Hell thats even listed as a strategy for pirating, how sad. Oh and please dont brag about playing "PvP" you should say you PvN, Player versus Noobs, cuz seems to me you "pirates" avoid the real players.
Good job on the Guide tho Skira it gave me some tips on what to look out for, Ill be saving it for later reference.
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.16 08:29:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 16/05/2009 08:34:01
Originally by: Drake Omen I just started playing EVE about 4 days ago, within 2 days I had my first run in with a dirty pirate that shall remain nameless. There I was minding my own buisness mining some ore in .5 space, I had a
jettison canister floating about 2000M away and happend to notice said pirate hanging there checking it out. I re-jettison the can and he follows to it, I send him a message... After a few minutes he laughs at me and accuses me of being an alt and as punishment steals all my ore, jettisons it from his ship... and blows it up. Then when 2 of my buddies warp in to the field he bolts like a cowardly pirate and sends me a message saying "Oh your buddy there has played since 2003? See ya later!"
Moral of the Story: Pirates are cowards and I dont like them. They pray on noobs and at the first sign of an experienced player they turn tail and run. Hell thats even listed as a strategy for pirating, how sad. Oh and please dont brag about playing "PvP" you should say you PvN, Player versus Noobs, cuz seems to me you "pirates" avoid the real players.
Good job on the Guide tho Skira it gave me some tips on what to look out for, Ill be saving it for later reference.
Three things:
1: Highlighted your mistake.
2: Can flippers are not pirates.
3: The hunter who hunts for food (or even for pleasure merely) doesn't care how helpless his prey is. Prey is prey. A good fight vs a fair opponent can be great sport when it happens, but no PvPer (be they pirate, merc, can flipper or otherwise) cares if you are a noob or a veteran: You are prey just the same.
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Recruiting
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Yazus Kor
Preta Light Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.16 15:41:00 -
[139]
Getting a 404 Error with the online version, and the PDF doesn't seem to want to download. Anyone got a copy of this somewhere?
"Beware, you who seek first and final principles, for you are trampling the garden of an angry God and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem." |
CrimsonLobo
Caldari Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2009.05.16 23:44:00 -
[140]
Decent guide [URL=http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=possecrimson2.jpg][/URL] |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.17 16:11:00 -
[141]
The next review of stickies is due.
I urge you to move this over to the EVElopedia as soon as possible. If it is, it will be added to the resource thread.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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abrasive soap
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.20 05:47:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Edited by: Skira Ranos on 16/05/2009 08:34:01
Originally by: Drake Omen I just started playing EVE about 4 days ago, within 2 days I had my first run in with a dirty pirate that shall remain nameless. There I was minding my own buisness mining some ore in .5 space, I had a
jettison canister floating about 2000M away and happend to notice said pirate hanging there checking it out. I re-jettison the can and he follows to it, I send him a message... After a few minutes he laughs at me and accuses me of being an alt and as punishment steals all my ore, jettisons it from his ship... and blows it up. Then when 2 of my buddies warp in to the field he bolts like a cowardly pirate and sends me a message saying "Oh your buddy there has played since 2003? See ya later!"
Moral of the Story: Pirates are cowards and I dont like them. They pray on noobs and at the first sign of an experienced player they turn tail and run. Hell thats even listed as a strategy for pirating, how sad. Oh and please dont brag about playing "PvP" you should say you PvN, Player versus Noobs, cuz seems to me you "pirates" avoid the real players.
Good job on the Guide tho Skira it gave me some tips on what to look out for, Ill be saving it for later reference.
Three things:
1: Highlighted your mistake.
2: Can flippers are not pirates.
3: The hunter who hunts for food (or even for pleasure merely) doesn't care how helpless his prey is. Prey is prey. A good fight vs a fair opponent can be great sport when it happens, but no PvPer (be they pirate, merc, can flipper or otherwise) cares if you are a noob or a veteran: You are prey just the same.
I disagree with the above.
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Yukinagoto
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Posted - 2009.05.21 15:18:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Yukinagoto on 21/05/2009 15:25:26 I agree.. It's not like everybody who fights under the specific set of circumstances that constitutes as 'pirating' has the same mindset. I don't know if anybody can speak as the spokesman of such a thing because the ideas and thoughts of one player will probably be different than that of the next.
My idea of a pirate is somebody who has to play within the game play mechanics that both lowsec and highsec bind them to.
but, no matter which way you look at it, the word 'pirate' holds no specific meaning in the community other than a slang word referring to somebody who fires at another players ship in lowsec.
It's just pvp.. People put way too much thought into defining these pointless terms and should just play the game for how it is.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.21 20:55:00 -
[144]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal The next review of stickies is due.
I urge you to move this over to the EVElopedia as soon as possible. If it is, it will be added to the resource thread.
So are you removing it or just reviewing it? If removing it, why?
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Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.24 14:50:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 24/05/2009 14:54:50
Mitnal: as much as I liked the idea of EVElopedia to begin with, and initially wished to support CCPs push for it, it seems you all have failed to understand what really makes wiki's work: the contributors MUST do it on their own accord. They are community efforts; when we create pages, we do so to help others, NOT to help the parent corporation that owns the game we love. If you feel EVElopedia is being underutilized, that is no-one's failing but your own.
Forcing people to help you with an ineffective idea is NOT the way to improve it. I don't claim to know what /is/ the best way to improve it, but this certainly isn't it. This, in fact, is one of the best way to alienate otherwise helpful people like myself. I would gladly have ported this over to EVElopedia IN ADDITION to keeping it here, for example. As it is, your blunt, desperate strongarm tactics (barely short of outright bullying) have cause me to rethink my support.
This guide will not be moving over to EVElopedia, and I calmly ask that no one else do so for me. I will find and alternative way to promote it and continue it's existence.
Thank you all for your support thus far, and I am sorry Mitnal. I do not mean for this to be any kind of declaration of war or hostility, merely representative of the fact that I strongly disagree with CCP's underhanded tactics with regards to EVElopedia and I will not bow to them.
-Skira
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Recruiting
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Derek Chambers
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.28 12:47:00 -
[146]
This is a great guide....and one of the few I've seen that doesn't discount Caldari or Missles right off the bat as being horrible for PvP, end of discussion.(being a Caldari main I am happy to see this)
Thank you for taking the time to write this and I will definitely be making a donation and hope to talk to you in-game.
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Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:28:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Grek Forto on 31/05/2009 16:28:52 Edit: Keep it sticky forever!
Grek Forto Yarring Blog |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:48:00 -
[148]
For a few months I was considering re-writing my original guides from years back, but looking at this, it just keeps getting better and better, and more detailed with every update.
I don't really feel that I need to, given this Guide.
This really is outstanding work, and is by far the most concise and detailed guide for young and upcoming pirates.
I'll be sure to link rookies here in future.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Psir
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Posted - 2009.05.31 17:09:00 -
[149]
Agreed, this is a solid guide for anyone who's looking to get into piracy and I've yet to see one which is better.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.06 09:42:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 06/06/2009 09:42:20 Ohhh:
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Dear players, The sad news is that CCP Mitnal is no longer with us and we wish him all the best in his future endeavors. The good news is that weĈd like to introduce you to CCP Zymurgist who is joining the Community team. Please join us in welcoming him.
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