Originally by: KasAnna PhD

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The placement of this forum is a no win situation. Really two are needed, a place for new players to commune together while learning the market/trade aspects of this game, and a place for the old guard to carry out their multi billion isk market exchanges.

In some games (definitely not all) the "old guard" serve a functional purpose in bringing new players up to speed. This community is barely capable of doing so, and seems wholly uninterested in helping anybody for any reason. Whether it be because they see noobs as potential future competition, or they are simply grizzled a-holes, it doesn't really matter.

If there was a general market discussion forum intended for general consumption, there would undoubtedly be some small minority of veteran players that visited for altruistic purposes, and that need would be met. And if there was a separate and more discreetly located board such as market discussion used to be, the very real need for a high end trade board would be met.

As it stands, nobody's needs are being met. Noobs are being lit on fire in here, and old players are getting their trade board spammed.

Nobody's exactly right, but at the same time nobody is exactly wrong, in their frustrations.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Shar Tegral

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What this "Move MD" is really about:

* This trend is in part a form of elitism. I.e. If you can't read the stickeys, go away. I.e. If you don't know "x", go away.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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I personally love how there are so many people who hate the MD forums and think other forums are way better yet they won't leave.

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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I hope that wasn't aimed at me.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Quote:

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Don't post in MD until you've read and understood how business gets done for a month.

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Originally by: Samir Atall

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So, if you want to have another forum for your IPOs and Bond Offerings (by the way, we call these things "Initial Offerings" or a "Primary Market," not a "Secondary Market") I think that's fair enough if it stops you all from filling the top 4 threads in MD with whining about your lost seclusion.

Really, come on. If you're worrying about "incessant drivel" that "lowers MD's credibility and importance" stop lining up threads in which everyone gets together and whines about the fact that a few times a day a new player might ask you something about the market. Heaven forbid, you might then have to read his/her question or, if you're really into it, apparently you will write multiple responses in which you bash them for their interest in the Eve Market.

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Quote:

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Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.

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Originally by: Samir Atall

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Honestly, it seems that many of the "veteran" forum users here are the ones that need a lesson in "basic economics" or at least in "intro to business." Although Eve is your game, Eve is someone else's business. And although I hear many of you "sit at the right hand of some of the most powerful people in game," I have a feeling that Eve the business functions better by courting the 30,000 plus trial accounts they have open at any given time rather than making sure the 50 "veteran" Market Discussion players don't have to skip over some "noob" questions in a forum. I mean, let's pretend that by preventing you all from flaming new players for their questions Eve is able to convert an extra 2% of trial accounts into paid accounts. That seems like a pretty good deal for Eve.

So, if you want to have another forum for your IPOs and Bond Offerings (by the way, we call these things "Initial Offerings" or a "Primary Market," not a "Secondary Market") I think that's fair enough if it stops you all from filling the top 4 threads in MD with whining about your lost seclusion.

Really, come on. If you're worrying about "incessant drivel" that "lowers MD's credibility and importance" stop lining up threads in which everyone gets together and whines about the fact that a few times a day a new player might ask you something about the market. Heaven forbid, you might then have to read his/her question or, if you're really into it, apparently you will write multiple responses in which you bash them for their interest in the Eve Market.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Quote:

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No, the problem that people here are having is that for the longest time, they were buried in an obscure place, and happy to be that way.

CCP then chose to move a discussion forum populated almost exclusively by older highly experienced players discussing large business transactions and macroeconomic scale discussions into a place where young or totally inexperienced players wander in and ask questions of a completely different scope and scale.

In essence, imagine a 13 year old somehow finding their way into a Federal Reserve Board meeting and asking questions about his summertime lawn mowing business.

That's what the old timers here are seeing.

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Originally by: Mr Horizontal

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We are naturally extremely surly because of scammers, and the fact we put our money where our mouth is. Other forums don't even expose their mains. We put the money on the table.

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Originally by: Ricdics

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Decided to do some historic searching on this forum:

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/102262/page/1#2

Thats my first post on MD : Posted - 2004.08.16 05:05:00

Can anyone beat it

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Originally by: Bubba1977

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Guess I beat it...what did I win?

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Ricdics

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Thats my first post on MD : Posted - 2004.08.16 05:05:00
Can anyone beat it

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Originally by: Shar Tegral

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Originally by: Feronia

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2003.10.28 07:47:00

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Impressive.

Out of my 5K+ posts I couldn't figure out my first MD post.

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To Shar -verb:
 1 - To say what you mean.
 2 - To say what it means.
 3 - To say something mean.

Originally by: Frenden Dax

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Originally by: Cheopis

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As I just mentioned in another thread, the main reason why this forum should never have been moved is that it's purpose is to sell things. Bonds. Shares.

The place for selling things is right down where everything else ingame gets sold.

This forum does not belong here, another should have been created if CCP wanted a place to ask questions. This is a market forum.

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This.

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Originally by: Kylar Renpurs

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Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 30/11/2008 05:06:21



[offtopic]
With the mineral basket in mind, the only way CCP will ever make risk-vs-reward (ugh, i feel dirty now) match in terms of a mining career in high sec vs low sec vs null sec, they need to introduce a mechanic (whether it nerfs highsec mining or not) which simply makes mining ore A in lowsec/0.0 sec more profitable than mining it in high sec. They'll never be able to make, say, Jaspet/Hedbergite more valuable than Veldspar if the mineral market says so.

I.e. Mining Veldspar is bettar than mining Jaspet. Jaspet is a low-sec only ore. Veldspar is ubiquitous. But who cares. What *should* be the case is that mining veldspar in low/0.0 sec is worth more than mining veldspar in high sec.

Whether this is by incurring tax/fees/something to make mining in high-sec more expensive, or whether it's by introducing things like blast-crystals which are illegal to use in high sec (concord response for using them even) but dramatically increase your yield (extra 50% say) and depletes asteroids inefficiently,, it'd be a win-win. More targets coming to low sec for pirates, more reward for bears going to low/0.0 sec (they're halfway there with the Blockade Runner covert ops cloak changes)
[/offtopic]

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Originally by: Kwint Sommer

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Originally by: KasAnna PhD

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The placement of this forum is a no win situation. Really two are needed, a place for new players to commune together while learning the market/trade aspects of this game, and a place for the old guard to carry out their multi billion isk market exchanges.

In some games (definitely not all) the "old guard" serve a functional purpose in bringing new players up to speed. This community is barely capable of doing so, and seems wholly uninterested in helping anybody for any reason. Whether it be because they see noobs as potential future competition, or they are simply grizzled a-holes, it doesn't really matter.

If there was a general market discussion forum intended for general consumption, there would undoubtedly be some small minority of veteran players that visited for altruistic purposes, and that need would be met. And if there was a separate and more discreetly located board such as market discussion used to be, the very real need for a high end trade board would be met.

As it stands, nobody's needs are being met. Noobs are being lit on fire in here, and old players are getting their trade board spammed.

Nobody's exactly right, but at the same time nobody is exactly wrong, in their frustrations.

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For the quote's source see eve-search.


Great first post in this forum. And by "great first post" I mean people who have never even posted here showing up out of no where and making broad, sweeping statements about the entirety of this board and its users is one of the big reasons I object to MD's new notoriety.

By the way, we serve a "functional purpose." Not just do we handle trillions (EBANK alone is approaching 1.5T) of ISK that's probably fairly important to the economy, we also are the source and home of the secondary market CCP seems so proud of and we ultimately help a fair number of people.

Where do you think all the new IPO's come from? They come from fairly new players that we guide through the process and ultimately invest in. We help those who help themselves and we do it a lot, sometimes without even getting anything directly out of it. What we don't do is spoon feed noobs too lazy or dumb to use eve-search to answer there own questions.

The secondary market needs new blood, not but 6 months ago we were fretting over the tiny number of new bonds. There were even accusations of stifling the secondary market being thrown around. We'd like to see a lot more of EVE getting involved in the secondary market at least through bank accounts and insured bonds. What we don't want is spill over from General Discussion and noobs wondering in looking for the new player Q & A section which is what we're getting now.

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Originally by: KasAnna PhD

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Newbs need a place to ask questions without fear of napalm.

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