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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.30 13:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 30/11/2008 13:57:44 CCP is actually planning NPC AI. So yeah, changes will come to missions and 0.0 rats soon enough ^^ |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.30 14:15:00 -
[32]
The extra reward is for not relying on NPCs watching your back.
If it was really worth it, more people would be out there. You nerf the things that everyone is doing, not the things a minority are doing. Failtroll etc. |
Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.30 14:27:00 -
[33]
Why not just reduce Eve to 1 security level (arbitrarily assigned by CCCP), and remove every ship except 1.
There, issue addressed. Next? |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.30 14:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tasty Bit Why not just reduce Eve to 1 security level (arbitrarily assigned by CCCP), and remove every ship except 1.
There, issue addressed. Next?
I think they would actually have the game balance themselves. |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.11.30 14:52:00 -
[35]
You fail hard OP, nullsec is fine, just listen to all the alliance members and their alts in this thr... oh wait...
Maybe some of the majority are still in highsec because like me, they were in an alliance and yeah it was very profitable, but you were a complete tool for them and the the hours I spent on joining nullsec fleet pvp was some of the most unimaginably boring times of my life.
Hence I'm never going back, full of backstabbing *****s anyway. Occasional nullsec roams with a dash of lowsec piracy and an occasional empire wardec is where the fun is at anyway OP. Leave the powerplayers to their toys in nullsec out way.
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DownTwisTeD
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Posted - 2008.11.30 14:59:00 -
[36]
since we are on the 00 pet peeve topic, i hate the aggression time of 30 seconds on 00 system gates since when is 00 space low sec huh?
i ask what law is there in a lawless town with no sheriff in it.
what great genius came up with the idea of a aggression time on a 00 system date huh? SHOT HIM..
A feaken 00 system is not a LOW SEC system...OK! |
5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.11.30 15:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 30/11/2008 15:25:26 I've asked that before Downtwisted, makes no sense to me either.
I think the answer I got last time was "Shuttup, that's why"
Although this argument isn't quite as strong, you could also sorta argue aswell why concord increase your sec status and pay out bounties to you for playing the lone ranger outside empire space. |
Liranan
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.11.30 15:41:00 -
[38]
LOL thread!! |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.30 15:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy I've asked that before Downtwisted, makes no sense to me either.
I think the answer I got last time was "Shuttup, that's why"
It's a necessary mechanic to prevent gatehugging as a free invulnerability button and to make players who engage in PvP commit to fighting when they decide to shoot
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.30 16:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 30/11/2008 16:02:33
Originally by: DownTwisTeD since we are on the 00 pet peeve topic, i hate the aggression time of 30 seconds on 00 system gates since when is 00 space low sec huh?
i ask what law is there in a lawless town with no sheriff in it.
Because, even though there's no sheriff, the law still applies. Using your analogy, every country village with no police station should be completely free of laws. Gates are comtrolled by computers, those computers were programmed to do certain things, irrespective of sec of the system they are in. So even though the cops are not around to act on it, the alarms still go off.
Also, as 5pindizzy pointed out, you are happy to get bounties for rats in 0.0 but whine when the law mechanics are not in your favour. And then you call highsec carebears the whiners
Edit: Grammar -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
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Gankbear
Amarr Gankbears
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Posted - 2008.11.30 16:22:00 -
[41]
Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
1: You have zero chance of being killed outside the door of your own station in a enemy bubble camp.
2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
3: logistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
4: PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
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Gankbears Sarcasm hits fail thread for 249 lolcatz causing it to be locked. CCP Mitnal laid the final blow.
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Core Researcher
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Posted - 2008.11.30 16:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
less risk tbh.
Its notable that the first 4 posters after the OP are all from 0.0 alliances and all for some reason are eager to show that the OP is wrong.
Uncanny.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.30 17:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Core Researcher
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
less risk tbh.
Its notable that the first 4 posters after the OP are all from 0.0 alliances and all for some reason are eager to show that the OP is wrong.
Uncanny.
Funny. You try going to a good 0.0 pocket with rewarding rats, in a 0.0 alliance, and see how long you last without showing up for any defensive of offensive activities.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.30 17:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gankbear Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
Let's also look at the flipside.
Quote: 1: You have zero chance of being killed outside the door of your own station in a enemy bubble camp.
If you play in Highsec in a player corp, you cannot defend your own systems with bubble camps against enemies who have wardecced you. Lowsec - The same and also there's no mechanic that allows you to "seal off" huge areas for your carebears to rat in.
Quote: 2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
Same answer since it's essentially the same problem.
Quote: Loistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
I'll give you that one.
Quote: PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
Hmmmm... So PVP in lowsec is non existant is it? Wardecs in highsec don't actually exists? Interesting... Also, there's no mechanic in lowsec to defend your home systems. Sov doesn't exist there so you can have an enemy POS in your own system and not even know about it. There are no mechanics at all in highsec to allow NBSI to stop alt spies roaming your home system during a wardec.
Quote: 5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
And players in lowsec sit around when they have a POS in lowsec? Again, no Sov means no warning when enemy corps put a POS in the same system as you. No cyno jammers means any enemy with a cap ship or black ops can cyno in or even bring a few friends through a jump portal. Both lowsec and highsec require extra costs in the form of charters so it's actually more expensive to have a POS in Empire.
Quote: 6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
Can't see any difference to lowsec or highsec during a wardec at all. Apart from the lack of defeseability due to Sov.
Quote: 7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
During a wardec or in lowsec the same applies.
Quote: and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
And double fail for you for not realising that you can still do FW in NPC corps. In fact, due to standings and trying to get everyone above a certain level to get the corp level up, It practically demands it. This also does not detract form the fact that in lowsec, anyone is a target whether they are in a NPC corp or not so lowsec ratting/mission running is just as hazardous.
Overall, due to Sov and bubbles in nullsec, lowsec mission running and ratting is more hazardous than nullsec. With Sov and bubbles, you have several defences to prevent entry by an enemy. If you're in a player corp in highsec during a wardec, the same applies but with even less defence since you can't gank neuts who may be spies for the enemy.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.11.30 17:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in belt 3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
Oh look, a troll. Shoo. Back under your bridge. -- 249km locking? |
Soporo
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.30 17:57:00 -
[46]
Op's premise is wrong. It's not 0.0 folks that whine about level 4's, it's LowSuck pies who want more targets.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.30 19:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Soporo Op's premise is wrong. It's not 0.0 folks that whine about level 4's, it's LowSuck pies who want more targets.
I'm curious... when they get rid of T1 module drops from missions, do you think they'll also remove them from 0.0 belt rats?
Do you think, eventually, that hauler spawns will be a thing of the past?
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Apoctasy
Fluffy Muffins
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Posted - 2008.11.30 19:47:00 -
[48]
1/10
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Andres Talas
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Posted - 2008.11.30 23:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gankbear Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
3: logistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
4: PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
Whole bunch of completely untrue crap.
2. Intel channels. Know em, love em. Map showing pilots inn space - know it, love it.
3. True, but not particularily relevant. Ammo is a remarkably low cost on a per-rat basis. Or, use lazors.
4. So completely untrue it isnt funny. You cant rat enough to make back serious PvP losses (ie a dread). Learn2market, learn2moon react or learn2flycheapships.
5. CVA run NRDS, and FDN did. Be prepared to spend some time in a defense gang, and no-one will care that you brought a cheap EWar cruiser. Kugutsmen is quoting PL doco that puts rental costs at 5m a month per member of a renting corp in Fountain, and that includes an intel channel.
6. You dont need a *good* ship to rat in 0.0 - you just need an adequate one. Sure, it's marginally slower but the occasional losses hurt less.
7. Completely untrue. I can make circa 2m an hour running L1s in Empire, and circa 5m an hour ratting in 0.0 in my trusty "uh oh, there's 2 battleships, next belt" Vexor
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Xiaodown
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.01 00:22:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Karille 2/10 For effort
Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better.
If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it.
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0
1) Yes, roaming gangs to lower the ISK/h ratio, but not that badly, no more than -10% on a bad day.
2) Capital jumping/transporting loot is very very cheap.
Of course.
Because there are no rats that warp scramble you.
Because the likelihood of getting attacked in a lvl4 mission hub is just as high as in 0.0.
And lastly, as a clue to those of you who don't live in 0.0 - most of it is completely empty and entirely worthless. There's probably, what, 5,000 0.0 systems in eve? probably less than 500 are worth fighting over. You can very easily travel 20 jumps in 0.0 and never see another soul. Because all those systems with true sec status of -0.1 ~ -0.7 are pretty much worthless unless they have a top-end moon. And as a cruel joke to those who want to rat, most of the -1.0 systems have like 2 belts and an ice field.
0.0 isn't the rich lush paradise that people seem to think it is. There aren't iskies laying around waiting to be picked up. 90% of it is worthless and yet carries the same risk as the 10%.
--
Sig under construction.
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Flavia Clio
Ero Guro DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.12.01 00:31:00 -
[51]
O.O ratting is the easy part. Living there is the hard part.
Market is crap, 1 or 2 stations within 10 jumps to dock at. Loot is **** usually if you luck into a decent drop, then you have to haul it to empire to sell it.
Good thing about 0.0 is it isn't empire.
One thing I would like to see is low sec rats get a bounty boost. Right now there is no incentive to rat in low sec. Reward vs risk isn't there.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.12.01 01:05:00 -
[52]
It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it It's The... ...It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it
And I feel fine
Ok song, I suppose. Kind of annoying though. Gets in your head for hours.
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≡v≡ |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.01 01:08:00 -
[53]
Any excellent ratting space will be contested. Any contested space will take resources and time to conquer/secure/defend. You may be a pilot in an alliance that doesn't do your fair share of the fighting. OR maybe your alliance doesn't do it's fair share of fighting for the coalition it's part of. Either way if your getting easy ISK ratting and losing or risking a minimum in return you are either a moocher or part of a mooching entity.
Your perspective doesn't take the larger picture into account. Your confusing your ignorant narrow view with fact and stating it as such.
Don't believe me? Start your own alliance, go after lucrative ratting space in 0.0. Come back and tell us how easy it is to take that space, how easy it is to keep that space, how little it costs to keep that space, and how much time you have to rat in that space.
There is no risk when you reap the reward of 0.0 after someone else has put the effort into it. If your talking about ratting in "hostile" space, then I also disagree as you have to move around and have a logistic pipeline. When you account for needing alts and cap ships and still run the risk of getting snagged at any time there is no way you can compare it to the ease of high security mission running.
It's not that you can't rat almost anywhere in the game and make a profit, just that it takes more risk preparation and thought than doing high sec missions.
Though I would be fine with making 0.0 ratting riskier, depending on the way it's done.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.12.01 01:31:00 -
[54]
0.0 is safer because you don't have to worry about war decs and gate guns.
sound. |
Olleybear
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.01 01:34:00 -
[55]
Here we go again.
LVL 4's are da uber isk making machin!!! Keal and Nurf it!
or
0.0 are da uber isk making machin....
You get the picture.
Both have their places for the different types of playstyles of the Eve gaming community. Neither are the bane of the other.
This horse we have beating on over the years is so far beyond dead that we've crushed the bleached bones of the horse into a fine powder by continuing to hit it.
Oh, and if it weren't for rich carebears running level 4 missions, who would buy that Gisti B-Type X-Large shield booster from you 0.0 plex runners? Those things are useless in 0.0 PVP when you have 10 red BS's primaring you.
Hi sec relys on 0.0 for the really good faction/officer mods, hi end minerals, while 0.0 relys on Hi sec to sell minerals/mods, pos fuel, bpo's, tech II mods........
Both are interconnected with the other. |
masternerdguy
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Posted - 2008.12.01 01:36:00 -
[56]
ok then.....
in a hi sec level 4 mission these are your risks:
not aligning fast enough being warp scrammed
in 0.0 these are your potential risks (i was in bruce when goons were camping us big time and these are very damaging)
getting ganked in 0.0 by an enemy fleet dying to the rat (rare, but it happens) not aligning fast enough if ur in a carrier ratting you may get attacked cuz you drew attention 2 urself
extended risks of 0.0 ratting:
not being able to rat decreases ur cash flow low cash flow == bad time pvping
enough said |
Miss Peaches
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Posted - 2008.12.01 05:05:00 -
[57]
Ive been playing this game for 2 years and low security still boggles my mind. Other then having level 5 missions (fairly new btw), the only other purpose for low security seems to be to just join some random empire systems together. Other then that, low sec is useless- obivously its fun to "pirate" and kill some random haulers, frieghters that like to jump in unscouted that are heading for 0.0 heaven. Other then that I dont really get the point of it.
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Durty Nell
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.01 09:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Olleybear Here we go again.
LVL 4's are da uber isk making machin!!! Keal and Nurf it!
or
0.0 are da uber isk making machin....
You get the picture.
Both have their places for the different types of playstyles of the Eve gaming community. Neither are the bane of the other.
This horse we have beating on over the years is so far beyond dead that we've crushed the bleached bones of the horse into a fine powder by continuing to hit it.
Oh, and if it weren't for rich carebears running level 4 missions, who would buy that Gisti B-Type X-Large shield booster from you 0.0 plex runners? Those things are useless in 0.0 PVP when you have 10 red BS's primaring you.
Hi sec relys on 0.0 for the really good faction/officer mods, hi end minerals, while 0.0 relys on Hi sec to sell minerals/mods, pos fuel, bpo's, tech II mods........
Both are interconnected with the other.
The smartest most insightful post in this thread by far.
YouĈre absolutely spot on mate. Both high sec lvl 4 mission runners and 0.0 dwellers are inter connected like a pair of conjoined twins. In spite of these two very different game playing microcosms there is no way to separate either without one or the other dieing or worst still also killing off other avenues of game play.
YouĈre also spot on with your analogy of the ĉDead HorseĈ though I must admit it did raise a chortle. The discussion has been done to death over the years yet still people feel the need to revisit it time and time again, even after CCP have commented publicly on the delicate balance of the system and the possible pitfalls of tinkering with it.
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2008.12.01 09:59:00 -
[59]
Moved to " Missions & Complexes" forum.
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang |
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Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.12.01 12:06:00 -
[60]
0.0 is so great, its just all of EVE, not at all like hi sec. I can kill npc's.....
wait.....
kill npc's? .....
I'm supposed to be killing players!!!!!.......
Remove NPC's from lo sec...............(they corrupt the nul sec ethos)
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