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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:11:00 -
[1]
Posting in epic fail false propaganda thread. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 19:36:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Marn Prestoc
I still haven't heard anything except "look at the range and damage!" for a reason lasers are overpowered. What about cap use? what about fitting cost to the ship? hence what about the ships used, big slow and heavy, limited mids...
If they'd factor in lateral stats they would not be able to say "my weapons sucks, I want them to be lasers". Ofcourse they also might be too dumb to see it. Wichever it is, this thread fails just like the blaster thread. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 20:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 11/12/2008 20:34:31 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 11/12/2008 20:31:20
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 11/12/2008 20:01:24
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer im amarr skilled
and while i will preach long and hard all about the falcon being overpowered compared to other recons and nit pick at other races ships il defend pulse BS even though they out class all other BS with similar fitting types........
Fixed.
Unless your gonna tell us all about your uber fast tackle BS or your 2 man roaming BS gang that catches and kills all manner of ships you come across.....
What does this have to do with anything? The graphs and arguments of the op are total bogus. Also, congrats on joining the group of players totally disregarding everything except dps and range when discussing balancing.
It's like me opening up a boost crusader thread and only focusing on lack of a 3rd mid and totally ignoring everything else. You'll say "but it has lots of dps, speed and tracking" and I'll answer with "BUT it has only ONE mid, it sucks! boost it!". This is the logic that is being used in this thread and in the blaster thread. This thread is fail.
Your idea of range balance in the other thread just shows how extremly unthoughtful your balancing ideas are. You're totally biased and you can't even see it. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 00:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 11/12/2008 21:08:04
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
What does this have to do with anything? The graphs and arguments of the op are total bogus.
Proof or stfu, im looking forwards to seeing your "non bogus" graphs.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Also, congrats on joining the group of players totally disregarding everything except dps and range when discussing balancing.
Under most circumstances i would not consider using pure and only range/dps ratios as a guide for balance, but considering that the BS in question are all about range/dps ratios it seems rather relevant to do so.
But like i say if you wanna post your links to all the solo BS work or 2 BS roaming gangs you charge around 0.0 killing ships of all classes left right and center in, please go ahead...........
Or is it just easier to drop out words like "cap", "agility" and "tactics" while hoping the more naive ppl will think you know wtf your talking about.
The slowest moving/accelerating, least maneuverable, slowest locking conventional ships in the game and your using solo and 2 BS gang examples to try and justify amarrs total overpoweredness. NON existent pvp scenarios to try and justify a non existent balance.
And in the same breath you try to pitch that using range/dps ratios are not valid for this type of combat ship????......range/dps ratios are the ONLY valid stats to measure these BS and particular weapon systems by.
1. Proof? The first reply to this thread pretty much shreded its whole credibility.
2. Words like cap, agility, versitility and slot distribution should be a part of any discussion. I know it is hard to grasp something outside dps/range/tank but there are other factors. You might not see that but that is the reason people like you are (thank god) not working with balancing this game. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 00:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2008 00:06:56 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 12/12/2008 00:05:29
Originally by: SecHaul
Clearly these balance the ability to have optimal firing to 45km, compared with 11km.
Yeah actually they do, you just suck. You know why? Because you will always suck at this game if you try to shoe horn ships into roles they weren't built for. It's like me training for a crow and then whining it doesn't go as fast as a claw or doesn't use turrets like other inties. The whole logic of these arguments are faulty and originate from the fails of their authors. Every race is not good at everything. Welcome to eve. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 12:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: SecHaul
I am not shoe-horning anything, I have compared multiple battleships, with multiple fits, firing upon a BC orbiting it under standard propulsion firepower. Explain where the 'shoe-horning' is coming in.
If you lose to a BC in a BS if both are set to fight eachother you just suck. This is what the thread is about. QQing about BS.
And ofcourse I find the argument of shoe horning smart. I'm the one that has said it several times in other whine threads. Why? Because that is what the whiners are doing. Instead of admitting their choice of race was wrong for what they intended to do in combat they blame the ships. And that is dumb, twist it any way you like. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 12:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: maralt
Battle Ships (apart from the scorp) are defined by their dps/range/tank it is what they do, they are too slow locking, moving and accelerating to be defined by anything else and trying to act like they all have different "roles" is the weakest argument anybody could come up with.
You're wrong. Another reason why you are not sitting and balancing this game for us. Why?
Yes battleships in general have more dps and more tank. Why? Because they are bigger and use bigger guns. Do BS always hit for more dps on any target and do they always tank more dps then another ship in different circumstances? No they don't. That's a little hint of dps/tank not being THE role for BS.
BS have huge differences between them. Some work greater solo, some work alot better with sentry guns, some are great passive tanks and some are more agile then others.
Do you even know the agility difference of a tempest vs an abaddon? It's huge. Do you know the importance of not using cap in smaller scale combat? It can be huge. Do you know the power of active tanks in smaller engagements? Do you grasp the versitility of huge drone bays? Do you understand the importance of utility high slots? Do you get the awsomeness of having room for another web/TD in your mid?
You just want to shove all this under the carpet and boost minmatar and gallente to do everything as good as amarr but keep ALL (and **** me there is alot of them) advantages.
Sorry but you cannot ignore those and this is why you all fail in this fail thread. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 17:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: maralt
Pulse on the other hand at least match and in most cases outclass AC and Blasters at every range while also having available ranges outside all others, and as such make the short range BS weapon systems in real need of balancing.
At every range? You're forgetting tracking and with web nerf it's even worse for pulses in general. How deep are you going to dig that grave of yours? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 10:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 10:36:29 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 10:36:12
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 15/12/2008 18:17:15
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
At every range?
Amarr virtually match all from from 5km onwards, outclass all other systems after 10-14km, while having no contenders at longer ranges at all. Did you think that just because the thread had moved on a little that the graphs posted would be ignored?.
Its you who should learn wtf your talking about.....oh look your amarr.......
Oh and with a effective range of 5-60km the web nerf is hardly a problem now is it...is that really the best you can come up with?......mr amarr.....
Uhm. Let's see:
Small pulses operate up to 13km generally. Compare it with small rails that can operate up to 50km where no other small turrets reach. With your logic these small rails are OP compared to small pulses when in fact they only have different areas of use.
You'll now say "But the pulses have more dps and tracking", well blasters have more dps and tracking compared to pulses.
Weapon range is not split up in two, this is where you're going wrong. Weapon ranges are split up in SIX:
range min to max: blasters, Acs, pulses, beams, arties, rails. dps min to max: rails, arties, beams, pulses, acs, blasters. tracking min to max: rails, arties, beams, pulses, acs, blasters.
I'm not sure how else to explain this, it is really simple. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 11:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 16/12/2008 10:51:58
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Uhm. Let's see:
Small pulses operate up to 13km generally. Compare it with small rails that can operate up to 50km where no other small turrets reach. You'll now say "But the pulses have more dps and tracking", well blasters have more dps and tracking compared to pulses.
No i would say beams are the system to balance rails with, but then you know that already your just trying to involve long range systems to try and hide the overpoweredness of pulse compared to its peers (AC and Blasters).
Now you're just talking rubbish. You are saying that the group of beams, arties and rails should have nothing to do with blasters, acs, pulses when it comes to balancing. Wich is obviously pretty fail. You have to include the whole range of weaponry from blasters to rails for the weapon balance. Oh and besides, if you're so hot on comparing beams with rails I apply your faulty logic to that system aswell:
Originally by: maralt
Pulse on the other hand at least match and in most cases outclass AC and Blasters at every range while also having available ranges outside all others, and as such make the short range BS weapon systems in real need of balancing.
"Rails on the other hand atleast match and in most cases outclass arties and beams at every range while also having available ranges outside all others, and as such make the short range weapon systems in real need of balancing. "
Ok boost beams. In short: Keep digging. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 11:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Chi Quan and what on earth do eanms have to do with missing tracking on blasters?
Blasters are not missing tracking. This was shown pretty well in the thread. They also have a high amount of utility slots and high agility and speed to be most efficient in close range.
well then pulses have too much tracking compared to their effective range ...
The difference is only small and it is quite fine considering pulses go on ships with mid slot gimpage, using high cap, high fitting and limited dmg type. Again: LATERAL balance data is important. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 12:29:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 12:31:09
Originally by: Gods Coldblood Well since QR hit us all, i havent been pvping. Two days ago or so i decided it was time at least to go on and play the game i have come to love..
I decided to go out in a hyperion in low sec and see if i stilll had the skill i used too, pre-patch.. All i can say is LMAO, QR is no way near as bad as most of you are making out.. I've killed bc's, cruiser's, many bs's, and busted gate camps on my own..
Sorry CCP, for saying some harsh things before in some of my posts.. You have made fights have more drama and i can actually say this has improved my eve experience.
Regards
Coldblood
QFT. Most of these whiners in these threads are whining because they suck (and haven't even actually tried the new mechanics on tranq and are living in eft and sisi eventhough ironically they are accusing others of doing that). They are going on about how they will cross train to something else and start owning. Truth is crosstraining won't change anything at all. The people who crosstrain will still have the same kill stats as before, they won't have more solo kills and they won't be owning anything that they didn't before either. These threads and the whiners in them are here for two reasons:
1. To overpower their race. 2. Whining because they suck and need to blame something.
You can tell this by the redicilously narrow viewed "balance" discussions and exaggerated and faulty statistical data. Some people think just because you make a graph that it has something to do with truth and science, when in fact statistics and graphs can prove ANYTHING you like as long you are ready to manipulate them and there is alot of that going on here in this section.
All I can say is that it's great that ccp does not work with data like that for balancing.
/Lyria ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 15:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: maralt
Personally to balance things out i would put tracking on pulse to around the same as 425mm rail guns at least for starters.
Could you humor us by revealing the "math" and data for justifying 425mm rails to have around the same tracking as pulses? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 16:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 16:35:19 Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 16:34:25
Originally by: maralt
Actually i said reducing the tracking on pulse to be closer to the tracking on 425mm rails not increasing rails tracking to be like pulse.
You really should read more carefully, i know its hard when you have all that emo rage swirling around cos this is about balancing your overpowered system but take deep breaths and im sure you can manage it.
1. You do know that saying:
"rails to have near pulse tracking" or "pulses to have near rail tracking" does not reveal wich of the items you are actually changing to get them closer to eachother. L2Grammar. So answer the question: Why do you think this should be. Humor us.
2. Actually a gang of rail eagle can pretty much bbq people just like a gang of pulses. You just have no clue because you're living in eft and on sisi.
3. The amount of smileys in your posts are not helping to prove you're correct, it's rather the opposite. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 17:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Goumindong blah blah i posted my crap before i thought about what i had already tried to spin to avoid my overpowered pulse getting balanced.
Fixed.
Troll. I think we are done talking to you. GL in eve, you'll need it. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 17:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: maralt .
2. I have several thousand kills in all forms of pvp and need no instruction from you or anybody else on what i am talking about.
Show me how many are solo kills. Where your skill actually matters. Link em cutie. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 18:39:10
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 16/12/2008 17:21:59
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Show me how many are solo kills. Where your skill actually matters.
You think it takes skill to get solo kills?.
Here is a clue pal, solo pvp is not much more than simple math.
I can jump in a solo gank ship and pretty much know exactly what i can and cannot beat as i travel around so the only skill involved is target choice. Now and again i may come across a ship with a funky fit but eve ship fits are so standardized nowadays its rare you come across summat that can surprise me.
If your rep was built on solo kills it is worth next to nothing.
In short: You can't put your money where your mouth is and that sure is alot of words for wanting to say "I got nothing to show". ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chi Quan
don't jump between the refferences here, you can not switch rails and blasters in mid fight. if you fit pulses you have a system that is effective at both long and short range. for the record: best t2 small rails (150) have a range of 32+7,5 with long range ammo (not 50). beams(called medium even though they are not a cruiser weapon, but that's OT) have 27+5, pulses(medium again) 11+2,5 and light neutron blasters 2,8+3,9. so? does any (sane) bs fit include small guns? lets get some more off topic: i didn't like the weather today, how about you guys?
1. If I fit pulses I have a system effective at short and long range? I can hit up to rail range? I can't. What is your point again? Ah yes, derailing because of lack of arguments.
2. He said pulses hit 60km and they only do that on bonused ships. Why should he be able to use bonused data while I cannot to prove my point? My point still stands between pulses and rails and beams even without the bonuses.
3. What does the balance between blasters, acs, pulses, beams, arties and rails have to do with you not being able to switch turrets in mid fight? Nothing. You're argument is that the difference between shortest and longest range of pulses are longer then blasters? Yes they are but rails have larger difference between their min and max range with different ammo aswell. Does this mean you have again no agument to stand on? Yes.
4. Are we done here soon? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 18:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Solo kills, Where your skill actually matters.
Anybody who knows pvp in eve is now laughing at you.
Unless you are gonna try pitching that you were referring to target selection when you said skill......
Do you not think you have made a big enough fool of yourself in this thread already?.
So you are a better pilot in fleets yes? That is what you are saying? I think we know is being laughed at atm tbh. You still have nothing to show, you're still trolling and talking absolute non sense. Oh the irony. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 19:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: maralt
So you think theres only solo or fleet pvp in eve?...noob.
Small - med gang vs gang combat is my preferred form of pvp, as that is where team work and actual skill are involved.
Solo is just a matter of correct target selection....noob.
Wait, so fleet and solo combat are not as much skill as small/med gang combat? Solo combat is just a matter of correct target selection and small gang combat is not? Fleet warfare is missing what element that makes it less skilled then your precious small gang combat? RR? EW? Tackle? Mobility? Everything is there. Is your grave 6 feet yet? Must be, but you're still digging aren't you? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 16/12/2008 20:04:49
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Wait, so fleet and solo combat are not as much skill as small/med gang combat?
Correct, that is why fleets are referred to as blobs and fleet warfare is referred to as BLOBBING and solo is just a matter of target selection.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Solo combat is just a matter of correct target selection and small gang combat is not?
Two out of two i think your actually learning.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Fleet warfare is missing what element that makes it less skilled then your precious small gang combat? RR? EW? Tackle? Mobility?
Fleet pvp or "blobbing" requires considerably less skill from each individual pilot within the blob and certainly less on a team work level.
Would you like to start another thread about it muppet or do you think that by ranting on about it here you will get the thread locked?.
Too bad you're not as good at pvp as you are at taking sentences out of context. I still can't see where you are explaining WHY your type of pvp is the one requiring most skill. Enlighten us. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:12:00 -
[22]
Can't belive goum hasn't given up on you people yet. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 13:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 13:26:59 Its quite interesting reading gourm over a amount of time especially when he is (as per usual) defending amarr or looking to sideways buff them by nerfing other systems.
He can in this thread call webs buffed or nerfed depending on the perspective and how it effects amarr..for instance the 5-13+km over heat available web range that gives amarr even more dmg/range overpoweredness he tries to ignore and mumbles about agility and deceleration times.
While also ignoring the same arguments (but in reverse) to try and show that blasters are great and have no problem holding a ship inside perfect blaster range and also tries to convince ppl that the 1-2km of range from 3-5km that blasters are more effective than pulse (as long as the targets transversal is high) is some how uber significant.
Too bad your theory is bogus. Goum was one of the few that on sisi consistently pointed out that locus rigs should get nerfed and they did the following patch. He is not biased. Get cracking at a new fail theory mate. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 15:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rhadamantine
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Too bad your theory is bogus. Goum was one of the few that on sisi consistently pointed out that locus rigs should get nerfed and they did the following patch. He is not biased. Get cracking at a new fail theory mate.
So because he knew the stacking was borked on those rigs, we should believe everything he says. With or without him, they would have been changed.
Peas in a pod.
No it's not. That bug was of most use for amarr pulses in general. So yes, you got some reading up to do and a new way of attacking his so called biased views. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 15:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 02/01/2009 14:35:22
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Too bad your theory is bogus. Goum was one of the few that on sisi consistently pointed out that locus rigs should get nerfed and they did the following patch. He is not biased. Get cracking at a new fail theory mate.
It is not a theory its a fact, and the apoc can still hit at max easily with only the rokh as competition unless you count the ravens cruise fit. While with max skills the mega/hype can only hit at around 200-220ish now, before the locus nerf they could hit at max range easy.
Amarr getting to keep a max range sniper ship and gallente and mini taking one in the butt is hardly what could be considered a nerf to amarr especially considering its was a obviously broken system that was gonna get fixed anyway.
Just another sideways buff to amarr relative to the other races that gourm supported as per usual.
Sorry you just suck at eve. There is no nerf/boost that will help you sadly. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
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