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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:10:00 -
[1]
I'm fairly well acquainted with how to fit an Eagle to fill a fleet support sniper role, but I don't have much experience flying them in smaller gangs where the engagement ranges tend to be shorter. I came up with the following but wanted to ask for some input before fielding one:
[Eagle, Small Gang Support] Power Diagnostic System II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] (i.e. something offline)
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
My main goals are to stay alive (huge buffer) and do what qualifies as good DPS from railguns. Ammo would include faction AM, Thorium, and Iridium; this would let me hit at pretty much any range I can target with max damage up close and something in the middle. It does require a +1% PG implant, even with AWU V.
Obviously this isn't meant for tackle although I could drop one of shield hardeners for a T2 disruptor and rebalance my resist rigs; the web is there mainly for defense as I would be trying to avoid getting into web range in the first place.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Is the Eagle even worth flying in a small gang or should I stick with the 'ceptors and 'dictors I primarily fly now?
Also, how viable is a Beagle these days as a heavy tackler/close range damage dealer? I like flying blaster ships solo, but I've never been fond of them in gang fights; I much prefer to have a bigger engagement range instead of having to MWD from target to target.
Thanks for your input.
And no, I can't fly a Zealot....
-------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Coriander Rinne
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.04 18:29:00 -
[2]
I'm theorizing here, so forgive me if this sucks, but I'd say go with the beagle.
Whichever blasters fit, ofc. Using null to take advantage of the optimal bonuses, maybe?
Drop the invuln for a scram, switch the MWD for an AB, maybe put something else in that PDS spot, but I dunno what could be of more use.
I don't have EFT in front of me so I dunno how durable such a setup would be, but maybe you can build off of the idea.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.04 19:39:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Coriander Rinne I'm theorizing here, so forgive me if this sucks, but I'd say go with the beagle.
Whichever blasters fit, ofc. Using null to take advantage of the optimal bonuses, maybe?
Drop the invuln for a scram, switch the MWD for an AB, maybe put something else in that PDS spot, but I dunno what could be of more use.
I don't have EFT in front of me so I dunno how durable such a setup would be, but maybe you can build off of the idea.
I've toyed around with the idea of an AB Beagle, but the Eagle hull is just too slow to justify mixing Blasters and an AB in my opinion. The AB would make me harder to hit while orbiting for sure, but the approach would be murder and even that's assuming that somebody else has the target webbed/scrammed to be slow enough for me to catch. It could work if I knew I was going up against a battleship-heavy gang that was nice and slow, but against anything smaller and/or faster I seriously doubt that I would ever get into gun range.
If I do try a Beagle, it'll be packing a MWD and even then it'll be in conjunction with light/fast tackle to hold it still until I get into range.
Any other thoughts? -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:02:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 04/12/2008 20:02:59 Nah just use it what its good for. Sniping. Maybe also ditch the tank for more range and eccm. That way you'll be really useful, being a threat to anything outside the normal gang range. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:07:00 -
[5]
Looks good
I would swap the web for a tracking comp with a tracking script, tho
And also the power diag for a track enhancer, but i guess you needed the grid.
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Omarvelous
Caldari Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Omarvelous on 04/12/2008 20:17:36 Why the web? I don't think you want to be in web range with rails.
Replace with any of the following: - More tank - Sensor Booster to hit faster - Tracking Comp - Target Painter
That said - I still like my blaster eagle more. Its either good at short range or extreme long range. Mid range I've had meh results.
*EDIT* If grid si an issue - go to named MWD for better fitting.
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Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Trevor Warps Looks good
I would swap the web for a tracking comp with a tracking script, tho
And also the power diag for a track enhancer, but i guess you needed the grid.
Considering the ranges at which those blasters will reach, their tracking will be reasonably fantastic nonetheless. Then again, swapping that last mag field stab for a tracker would certainly not be anything I'd hesitate to do. One gives a full and very useful bonus, whereas another just gives about 8% extra damage total. In a small gang fight, you're bound to have a dedicated tackler, but not necessarily a webber. Therefore, this might be a good thing...
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:26:00 -
[8]
Thanks all for the constructive input.
The web is more of a defensive measure; it's meant to web stuff that gets to close to me, not to allow me to roam around and web people down.
Taking another look at it, it probably is a bit over-tanked. Let me play around somewhat with my mids and see what I can come up with.
-------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:26:00 -
[9]
Or just train for a zealot.............
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Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:32:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Trevor Warps on 04/12/2008 20:34:29
Originally by: Aleus Stygian
Considering the ranges at which those blasters will reach, their tracking will be reasonably fantastic nonetheless. Then again, swapping that last mag field stab for a tracker would certainly not be anything I'd hesitate to do. One gives a full and very useful bonus, whereas another just gives about 8% extra damage total. In a small gang fight, you're bound to have a dedicated tackler, but not necessarily a webber. Therefore, this might be a good thing...
Dude, hes fitting rails ! But yeah, dropping a mag stab for a tracker isnt a bad call ... a though call tho ... since rails dps aint the best.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 04/12/2008 21:03:11 Back from the drawing board...err...EFT:
[Eagle, Small Gang Support] Power Diagnostic System II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range ECCM - Gravimetric II
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] (i.e. something offline)
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Less tank than before (although I still keep a nice 27k EHP buffer), more range, same damage, ECCM. Faction Lead and Spike in the hold in addition to the Faction AM. I tried a similar fit with 250mm rails and an RCU but it ended up basically being a paper-thin fleet sniper fit that I was trying to avoid. This seems like a nice mix of range, DPS, and buffer with the ability to snipe at pesky Falcons at 100km+. I'm a little bit uneasy about having no on-board tackle, but that's what I get for being a dedicated 'ceptor/'dictor pilot.
Originally by: maralt Or just train for a zealot.............
-------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:13:00 -
[12]
[Eagle, Gang/Rails] Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Energy Neutralizer II
Ancillary Current Router I Core Defence Field Extender I
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Boosters and PirateProfessions
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Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:26:00 -
[13]
above is spendy
[Eagle, Beagle?] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M [empty high slot] Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
that looks like fail to me tbh
i'd stick with you're strong points
just fit big ass rails and eccm and kill all the damn falcons in the world
[Eagle, New Setup 2] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II
250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
or something, whatever ammo you want.
"SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: maralt Or just train for a zealot.............
Uhm what? Eagle is a top of the class sniper. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: maralt on 04/12/2008 23:02:10
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: maralt Or just train for a zealot.............
Uhm what? Eagle is a top of the class sniper.
Does the op and his suggested fit look like he is after a sniper?, and i am pretty sure the thread says summat about small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: maralt small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
I do realize that the Zealot is probably a better all-around small-gang support ship than the Eagle, while the Eagle is a better sniper than a Zealot. However, I don't have much in the way Amarr-specific skills nor do I plan to have any anytime soon (on this character at least), so I'm just trying to see if I can do something useful with the Eagle instead. And it would seem that I've found something of a useful compromise so I'll likely be trying it out in the near future. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: maralt on 04/12/2008 23:25:06
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: maralt small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
I do realize that the Zealot is probably a better all-around small-gang support ship than the Eagle, while the Eagle is a better sniper than a Zealot. However, I don't have much in the way Amarr-specific skills nor do I plan to have any anytime soon (on this character at least), so I'm just trying to see if I can do something useful with the Eagle instead. And it would seem that I've found something of a useful compromise so I'll likely be trying it out in the near future.
With hybrids the only real HAC option is the eagle as the blaster deimos sucks and the rail Deimos is a joke so the only other option is the eagle as the ishy is a drone ship.
Have you tried out the ferox or the vulture if you have the skills, they have similar bonuses but a larger buffer tank if your gang has logistical support, 25m3 drone space and an extra high slot also the CS has a extra mid slot.....Oh and the ferox is obviously more cost effective than the HAC and has 3 rig slots.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.05 02:43:00 -
[18]
I have flown a Ferox a few times in PvP after they got their 6th turret. I rather liked their overall durability and having a rail sniper with a good drone bay, but I was underwhelmed by their maneuverability and their range, while good for a T1 ship, wasn't good enough to justify the low DPS.
The Eagle, with HAC IV, should do the same gun damage as a Ferox (5 * 1.2 = 6) at longer ranges and be more maneuverable at the price of a drone bay, lower overall buffer, and increased price. Seems like a fair trade to me when you consider that you can do things with an Eagle that you simply cannot with a Ferox. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.05 03:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes I have flown a Ferox a few times in PvP after they got their 6th turret. I rather liked their overall durability and having a rail sniper with a good drone bay, but I was underwhelmed by their maneuverability and their range, while good for a T1 ship, wasn't good enough to justify the low DPS.
The Eagle, with HAC IV, should do the same gun damage as a Ferox (5 * 1.2 = 6) at longer ranges and be more maneuverable at the price of a drone bay, lower overall buffer, and increased price. Seems like a fair trade to me when you consider that you can do things with an Eagle that you simply cannot with a Ferox.
Absolutely correct. However youll still have problems with dps, and you simply dont have enough slots to fit a reasonable tank, along with all the other necassary mods for rails.
Id reccomend downgrading to 150's, and fitting a better tank for light gang work, better tracking and decent dps.
The way I see it, its either fit for max range, or fit for max survivability + good close range. Going inbetween is a real pain in the arse... EVE history
t2 precisions |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.05 04:07:00 -
[20]
also take into account whether you're sniper role is a general role or a specific one. If your oppenent always has falcons with them.. then I'd fit to decimate falcons and level the playing field "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 10:54:00 -
[21]
The way I see it is that the reason to fly the Eagle instead of a Zealot is because of the massive extra range. In small gangs, massive range is essential to hit ECM boats. So fit for maximum range, and range-tank, just like the Falcons you'll be shooting at.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.05 11:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: maralt
Does the op and his suggested fit look like he is after a sniper?, and i am pretty sure the thread says summat about small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
Your little obsession with down playing how good amaar is now is making you slip up and not read or comprehend the topic under discussion i suggest you think before you post in future, not that it will change the truth at all but it will make you look less obvious and biased.
1. He is asking for advice to use it in a smaller gang and my answer was that the fit is similar to the fleet fit.
2. Both eagle and zealot are good snipers. They just operate at different ranges but that is not how you put it. You just trolled the post with "just get a zealot - because eagle sucks in comparison". You're the troll, not me. You are the one not helping him. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:13:00 -
[23]
Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 12:14:24
Originally by: maralt
Does the op and his suggested fit look like he is after a sniper?, and i am pretty sure the thread says summat about small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
Your little obsession with down playing how good amaar is now is making you slip up and not read or comprehend the topic under discussion i suggest you think before you post in future, not that it will change the truth at all but it will make you look less obvious and biased.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 1. He is asking for advice to use it in a smaller gang and my answer was that the fit is similar to the fleet fit.
Actually you pounced on my post and made a totally obvious statement about the eagle being able to hit at longer ranges........well duh.
Your first post was in regard to the actual OP but the truth is that as per usual you saw a comment on amaar and your EMO levels hit red line and you posted a obvious and thoughtless comment with no regard to helping anybody but your own need to defend your overpowered and broken ships.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 12:14:24
Originally by: maralt
Does the op and his suggested fit look like he is after a sniper?, and i am pretty sure the thread says summat about small gang support and i assume that as he is looking at the eagle its a anti small support ship he wants and the best by far is the zealot way above the eagle.
Your little obsession with down playing how good amaar is now is making you slip up and not read or comprehend the topic under discussion i suggest you think before you post in future, not that it will change the truth at all but it will make you look less obvious and biased.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer 1. He is asking for advice to use it in a smaller gang and my answer was that the fit is similar to the fleet fit.
Actually you pounced on my post and made a totally obvious statement about the eagle being able to hit at longer ranges........well duh.
Your first post was in regard to the actual OP but the truth is that as per usual you saw a comment on amaar and your EMO levels hit red line and you posted a obvious and thoughtless comment with no regard to helping anybody but your own need to defend your overpowered and broken ships.
Wth are you talking about? I said use the eagle as a long range sniper in smaller gangs because it is excellent to fend off falcons and to kill other stuff out of range of your gang. Then you come along with your troll about zealots without even helping the guy out. He is obviously going to fly and EAGLE and not cross train 3 months for a zealot. Don't turn this around. YOU trolled the thread. Just because you are emo about picking a race you do not like flying doesn't mean we should put up with your trolling about amarr ships in threads. YOU are not helping the OP. Quite ironic how you try to make it look the other way around. I guess it's one of those troll tricks. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.05 12:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: maralt Or just train for a zealot.............
I would do this ,actually im doing this right now amarr cruiser lvl5 rdy only beams need to train :)
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maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: maralt Or just train for a zealot.............
I would do this ,actually im doing this right now amarr cruiser lvl5 rdy only beams need to train :)
Me 2 tbh, this nerf and the massive buff it gave to amaar ships making them so much better than all others came at a great time for me as i have literally finished training all gallente pvp as well as the falcon, eagle blah blah and was wondering what to go for next.
So a simple cruiser 5 skill and a couple of pulse and beam skills later and l be zipping around in the new overpowered FOTM ship until the eventual nerf hits and forces a switch to summat else.....still if i did not i would just end up as bitter as lyria.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: BiggestT
Absolutely correct. However youll still have problems with dps, and you simply dont have enough slots to fit a reasonable tank, along with all the other necassary mods for rails.
Id reccomend downgrading to 150's, and fitting a better tank for light gang work, better tracking and decent dps.
The way I see it, its either fit for max range, or fit for max survivability + good close range. Going inbetween is a real pain in the arse...
Eh, with Rails you learn to expect less-than-stellar DPS, but you also expect to be able to apply it to targets that nobody else can.
As for Dual 150s, I considered using them with a pair of Locus rigs to give me 200-like performance with better tracking. Performance up-close against small and/or fast-moving targets was better than with 200s, but I like having the ability to hit out past 100km to harass ECM ships and the Dual 150/Dual Locus setup just couldn't do it. Plus, the Dual 150 setup has a rather gaping EM resist hole and given the popularity of laser ships these days I consider that a serious fault. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:09:00 -
[28]
Guys I have played around a lot with Eagles and generally speaking they DO havea mid range engagement role but try to fit 250IIs even if it mean you need an RCU and fit inv and LSE instead of 2xLSE. Don't worry about the EM hole 2xrigs fill it nice and cheap.
If the gang is large-ish fit mwd small booster invul LSEII sensboost.If the gang is small you can drop booster and /or sens boost for 1-2 tackle mods.
The results with 250s are nice because they comprehensively cover the mid range with optimal. With 200s you ll end up perma juggling ammo types (borderline doable with grouping these days I guess) or shooting in fall off (bad)...
Sens boost when you can fit it helps with exploiting the spike reserves...
Even if you can not do Zealot however, consider Cerb for this role. With no tackle its a very good gank and tank option... at least was preQR now its a bit murky...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: maralt
So a simple cruiser 5 skill and a couple of pulse and beam skills later and l be zipping around in the new overpowered FOTM ship until the eventual nerf hits and forces a switch to summat else.....still if i did not i would just end up as bitter as lyria.
You'll always suck at everything if you keep crosstraining after each patch. That is why the fotm chasers are never happy. They never get good at something. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.05 18:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Crellion
The results with 250s are nice because they comprehensively cover the mid range with optimal. With 200s you ll end up perma juggling ammo types (borderline doable with grouping these days I guess) or shooting in fall off (bad)...
I had considered this, but with AM, Lead, and Spike, each of which is fairly useful over a realtively long range, my ammo switching should be managable, espeiclaly now with weapon grouping working without lagging your client to heck and back.
The 250s are very nice indeed, but on a small gang fit where I feel you need some more buffer they really gimp you in the fitting department. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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