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Lightmans
Caldari Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:11:00 -
[1]
Hello CCP and dear Dev Team!
Hey i wanna talk about the wreck and loot thieves in the missions areas like Motsu. I now it sounds winy... But i thinked all the last days about it before i started to write this threat...
Iam doing since some days a lot of lv4 missions, to make a lot of iskies and to buy expensive skillbooks and in one month a carrier... Working and fighting hard against the rats ... To make more then one billon isks for ships, skills and inventory... Because carrier and stuff are expensive..
And now there are people in this missions areas, they are probing with probes the area and try to find other players wrecks, loot and mission places. They steal ca. 50% of the mission reward with there action.... because they salvage all wrecks and they also take the good loot...
So i think thats a serios problem, because this people are damaging the game idea...
Player like me goes to Motsu and to do lv4 missions to make money and to buy ships or weapons or skill books with there hard worked money. And the other players are destroying this mechanism. So if i can not make money in the high sec because there are also crime.. for what we have a high sec?
Hey iam also paying money to ccp to play eve and make missions and not for other people they are using this as exploit. I think this is a realy big exploit and should be fixed.
This people should be flashing red, all the days to kill them :) ... and not only if they are stealing stuff, also if they salvaging wrecks!! OR make the mission places safe against other player or thieves..
I think, that today i lost nearly 50million isks, because this people are salvaging my wrecks and stealing my loot... And i dont wanna think about yesteray or last week...
Pls dear Dev team, you need to do something here...
Thx for listening and reading,pls think about it. regards lightmans
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Jack Airron
Gallente Universal Mining Inc Forged Dominion
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:19:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jack Airron on 04/12/2008 21:19:16
Originally by: Lightmans Hello CCP and dear Dev Team!
Hey i wanna talk about the wreck and loot thieves in the missions areas like Motsu. I now it sounds winy... But i thinked all the last days about it before i started to write this threat...
Iam doing since some days a lot of lv4 missions, to make a lot of iskies and to buy expensive skillbooks and in one month a carrier... Working and fighting hard against the rats ... To make more then one billon isks for ships, skills and inventory... Because carrier and stuff are expensive..
And now there are people in this missions areas, they are probing with probes the area and try to find other players wrecks, loot and mission places. They steal ca. 50% of the mission reward with there action.... because they salvage all wrecks and they also take the good loot...
So i think thats a serios problem, because this people are damaging the game idea...
Player like me goes to Motsu and to do lv4 missions to make money and to buy ships or weapons or skill books with there hard worked money. And the other players are destroying this mechanism. So if i can not make money in the high sec because there are also crime.. for what we have a high sec?
Hey iam also paying money to ccp to play eve and make missions and not for other people they are using this as exploit. I think this is a realy big exploit and should be fixed.
This people should be flashing red, all the days to kill them :) ... and not only if they are stealing stuff, also if they salvaging wrecks!! OR make the mission places safe against other player or thieves..
I think, that today i lost nearly 50million isks, because this people are salvaging my wrecks and stealing my loot... And i dont wanna think about yesteray or last week...
Pls dear Dev team, you need to do something here...
Thx for listening and reading,pls think about it. regards lightmans
no place in eve is safe, Thats the game you play. If you dont like it your free to leave. -------- blarg |
Lightmans
Caldari Snake Assault
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:29:00 -
[3]
Yes and this is exactly the problem ... For what we have high and low sec? and the 0.0 space????
People they wanna do actions like that, should do that only in the low sec or 0.0...
High sec should be safe and free for all, to recharge the wallet and to go back to low sec to fight...
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lightmans High sec should be safe and free for all, to recharge the wallet and to go back to low sec to fight...
This is where your idea contradicts the Dev's vision for their game.
Now go and read up on all the arguments in one of the other 9537 threads that were spammed all over the forum in the past. Thank you.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/12/2008 21:40:33
Quote:
This is where your idea contradicts the Dev's vision for their game.
This. Hisec isn't supposed to be PVEZone for easy monies with lowsec/0.0 being PVPzones.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.04 22:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RedSplat on 04/12/2008 22:32:03 Your assessment of your losses seems melodramatic at best.
EVE is a multiplayer game, Highsec is not risk free, Ninja Salvaging is a viable profession both in game mechanics and theorycraft.
Highsec missions currently make people too much isk for too little risk- the ratio is out of proportion with other professions out there.
Devs think the current status of salvage is 'fine as it is' (tm)
If you dont want salvager/loot thieves in your missions you have plenty of recourse to make in game.
If you cant handle player interactions and want things handed to you on a plate either fund yourself with GTC's or stay docked and use your imagination. You can always go to a different mission hub.
Of course you may be happier altogether simply taking your custom to another game, insular self entitled carebears have no positive effect on the community.
Look, i nearly made it without calling you out, that takes effort. Here's hoping my brethren make your aquaintance in game soon.
EDIT: PS. I think your idea sucks There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Irdia Mhonetti
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:02:00 -
[7]
You will get resistance from all the can flippers who make a lifestyle choice to steal instead of earn from hi-sec.
I agree something being done about the can flippers to help balance it towards the mission runner in hi-sec would be better. Currently its biased to the can-flipper - and thats in high-sec.
Why can't stealing from a can in high sec set the can flipper global for 15 min, and mark this as the first act of agression which it is. A mission runner shooting a can flipper should be considered just defending themselves. If the mission runner dies, they should get kill rights on the can flipper.
The can flipper still is at an advantage, as they were planning on pvp vs the mission runner who was planning on a mission.
If mission runners have it too easy - look how easy the can flippers have it!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.04 23:43:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/12/2008 23:44:28
Quote:
If mission runners have it too easy - look how easy the can flippers have it!
How much money does a good missionrunner make vs a good ninjasalvager?
How much personal skill does missioning require compared to ninjasalvaging?
Which is more dependent on circumstances: ninjasalvaging (Need to find a good area with level 4 missioners of the right faction. Need an EXTENSIVE bookmark set or a ridiculously populated hub) or missions (Any of the multitude of hisec level 4 agents giving an infinite supply of missions)?
Which of the two, when the ninja draws aggro, is in an actual combat ship?
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Re'taka
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.12.05 00:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Re''taka on 05/12/2008 00:33:16
Originally by: Lightmans
So if i can not make money in the high sec because there are also crime.. for what we have a high sec
I agree lets remove highsec.
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.05 00:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: RedSplat on 05/12/2008 00:36:18
Originally by: Irdia Mhonetti
If mission runners have it too easy - look how easy the can flippers have it!
So let me get this right:
A can flipper flips a can, flagging himself for aggression such the victim can fire on him if they so choose.
(Important part bolded)
Any circumstance where the contents that were flipped are worth a considerable sum is exceedingly rare.
The victim has to weight the risk vs' reward. Rational thought is useful here, sadly victims of canflippers tend to rage-out.
If the victim wants his stuff back he can take it back- giving the flipper aggro.
Now here is something interesting:
Someone can undock in a ship they don't mind losing (to lower risks that are already non existent) or one with multiple warp stabs and do the following
Warp to the can. Align to station. Set speed to 75%. Open the cargo bay as it is approached or passed by. Open the can and quickly transfer into cargo then spam wtz and dock
It is very likely you will escape with your goods
Or
You can fight the can flipper, preparing for pvp to do so with the intent to win. This does not mean immediately shooting at him as soon as he flips you: this is what he WANTS you to do.
Only the idiotic fall prey to can flippers.
(and we haven't even talked about secure cans yet.)
It is the victims choice. A can flipper cant make you agress him.
Explain how the hell that is weighted in the flippers favor There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
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yonpytr
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.05 02:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RedSplat Edited by: RedSplat on 05/12/2008 00:36:18
Originally by: Irdia Mhonetti
If mission runners have it too easy - look how easy the can flippers have it!
So let me get this right:
A can flipper flips a can, flagging himself for aggression such the victim can fire on him if they so choose.
(Important part bolded)
Poor can flipper, he probably has a pvp fited ship and matching skills to pop the miner with his mining ship and skills. Sure, the miner can choose to fire on him.
Originally by: RedSplat The victim has to weight the risk vs' reward. Rational thought is useful here, sadly victims of canflippers tend to rage-out.
The victim? It is the attacker who has to weight the risk vs reward.
And we are straying from the subject, stealing loot and salvage from missions. They should be flagged the moment they enter another one's mission if he is not in gang with the mission owner. And he should be aggressed by the mission rats, either by half the rats attacking the mission player of by a new spawn of rats that could warp out if the intruder warps out.
Originally by: RedSplat Explain how the hell that is weighted in the flippers favor
Well, lets see, the fliper can choose the time, place and who to attack, can have backup to fight or pick up the stolen goods, the victim can't retaliate right away because he has to go back to change into a pvp ship while the flipper can have someone else pick up the goods or he can pop the can with the goods. Maybe ccp should add a Declare Aggression button to make fights easier without the need to flip cans, war dec or shoot someone and getting concord involved. Declared aggresion should have a 15 min timer, and stealing loot and entering someone else's mission should have a permanent aggression until you cancel it or shoot the aggressor, then the 15 min timer would start. It would be interesting to see a can flipper cause aggro from all miners in the system and having their friends declare aggression on the can flipper, now he can be hunted.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.05 04:33:00 -
[12]
The way to get the can flippers back in mission areas is easy.
Fit a warp disruptor. Have an alt cloaked where they can see the acceleration gate but not too close. Agress the can flipper if he does it with an indy or small salvaging ship. When they go back to the station to get their PVP fitted ship to blow you up, warp out of the mission area to a planet or such.
Wait till your alt sees them get to the acceleration gate and then warp to it yourself. By the time you've got there, the can flipper will have gone up looking for you. Follow him, lock and use the disruptor on him. By the time you arrive, he should be starting to get aggro from the rats. Locked and scrambled, he's going nowhere and not in a good ship for PVE against a **** load of lvl4 rats. Now the rats are on your side instead of his.
Watch and enjoy as his ship dies horribly under the fire of all those rats and you can even take a couple of shots yourself just for appearances. Loot and salvage his ship and rub your hands with glee at the T2 salvage you get, along with a few T2 mods that survive.
Finally, go back to station and wait out the aggro timer in case he's got another PVP ship to come back with. Have a beer while you wait and celebrate the destruction of a can flipper and your added wealth at his expense.
Warnig: Don't try this a second time unless you know without any doubt that he's completely stupid.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.12.05 08:28:00 -
[13]
Except that the average person going to look for trouble with mission runners has enough of a cl00 to use his directional scanner to see if their target is still there to begin with. Unless said alt is in a cloaked recon ship or the like, he'll just move on if his target has packed up and left.
This also takes into account that they don't have their own alt or a friend sitting on the entrance gate to make sure you don't leave.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.12.05 10:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lightmans Hey i wanna talk about the wreck and loot thieves in the missions areas like Motsu.
Leave Motsu. Problem solved.
I avoid the popular mission hubs and never had someone come into my mission.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:40:00 -
[15]
It might sound crazy - but what about the following:
Find someone who will loot and salvage your mission before the evil probers can find it. You'll have to give him a fair share for his efforts but considering the time you do not waste on salvaging it's a win/win situation for both.
In the end you will make more money than you would when doing it alone.
Please transfer 50M to my char for this great advice
My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance |
Daevonar
Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Re'taka Edited by: Re''taka on 05/12/2008 00:33:16
Originally by: Lightmans
So if i can not make money in the high sec because there are also crime.. for what we have a high sec
I agree lets remove highsec.
Good idea, then all new players will quit because they can't survive for less than half an hour without losing their ship. But hey, who needs to keep new players coming in! Dae.
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Re'taka
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daevonar
Originally by: Re'taka Edited by: Re''taka on 05/12/2008 00:33:16
Originally by: Lightmans
So if i can not make money in the high sec because there are also crime.. for what we have a high sec
I agree lets remove highsec.
Good idea, then all new players will quit because they can't survive for less than half an hour without losing their ship. But hey, who needs to keep new players coming in!
Im glad im not the only one who feels like that,
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: yonpytr Stuff. Read his post so we don't get eaten by a wall of text.
You are missing the point. I suspect deliberately. It is STILL the Miner/Mission Runners choice. They can avoid all conflict if they so choose and there is NOTHING the can flipper or loot thief can do about it.
Highsec is not 100% safe, you can still become victim to player interactions with negative consequences for you.
In the specific case of people flipping cans in belt or in missions the victim is in no danger unless they choose to put themselves in danger.
Most can flippers are younger characters, they aren't difficult to kill. Maybe you could even join a non npc corp for protection- and if your corpmates wont help you then find a corp that doesn't suck.
My point is, the situation is weighted in favour of the Miner or Mission Runner.
In the case of ninja salvager's:
Its another profession, you cant stop people salvaging your wrecks. Try making a deal with them; if someone offers me a deal that isn't stupidly weighted in thier favour i normally take it.
If someone invites me to their mission without trying to make a deal i offer them 50% of the salvage. If i find any faction stuff i contract it to them. Just my way of rewarding people for not being greedy.
The current situation regarding mission 'invasions' isn't a problem. Canflipping works just as it should. To everything you have complained about there is a viable counter for the victim to make in game.
Please stop complaining. Please? There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:37:00 -
[19]
I'm getting confused. Are we talking about ninja salvaging, ninja looting, or can-flipping? I am in favor of all three.
What you need to understand is that, even among ninjas, there is leadership. In the ninja salvaging community, I'll be honest with you, I'm kind of a big deal. Send me 100M isk, Lightmans, and I'll tell the other ninjas to stay out of your missions...
............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots. |
Glach Duwat
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Posted - 2008.12.05 19:32:00 -
[20]
How about this:
Getting Griefed by ninja salvagers/can flippers/looters?
MOVE TO ANOTHER GOD DAMNED SYSTEM!
I capslocked the important part.
Seriously. If you're running missions in major hubs, you're just asking for it. Take a little less quality agent and run missions in a less busy system. Problem solved.
Not to mention the various other ways to combat them.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.12.05 19:59:00 -
[21]
I've seen ninjasalvagers once in quite a bit of mission whoring. Nice fellow, cleaned up a bit of my overview for me. I popped the trigger rat and kept going. Turns out, Imicus don't tank very well.
Working as intended, I'd say.
-------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.05 20:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Turns out, Imicus don't tank very well.
Working as intended, I'd say.
Now that i like. There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Su27frogfoot
Caldari Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.12.05 21:29:00 -
[23]
Get a Marauder. It works trust me I know that have tried it and never had problem with ninja looters again.
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