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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.05.08 04:25:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Holdas Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!
It depends, but probably Accounting 5.
Without Standings
Let's start out ignoring standings:
Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%.
Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%.
You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%).
If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 + 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%.
Standings
When you add consideration of standings, things can change:
If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice.
If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant.
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Holdas
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Posted - 2011.05.08 05:13:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Thoraemond
Originally by: Holdas Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!
It depends, but probably Accounting 5.
Without Standings
Let's start out ignoring standings:
Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%.
Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%.
You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%).
If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 + 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%.
Standings
When you add consideration of standings, things can change:
If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice.
If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant.
Excellent answer, thanks!
I pretty much only sell, so accounting is best then. Training that atm in this case. I appreciate the answer and the chart.
Now I just have to grind standings I suppose
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Reality G one
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Posted - 2011.06.07 21:25:00 -
[603]
Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools? Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and brooker fees etc =/
I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.06.10 00:16:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Reality G one Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools? Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and Broker fees etc =/
I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.
Did you find the list of applications in the Market Resources EVElopedia page linked from the thread that is stickied above this one in Market Discussions? The list is fairly thorough. It seems that you might be interested in something from the "Wallet and Order Management" category.
Depending on factors like (i) how much ISK you are using in your trading, (ii) how many different items you have looked into, you might want to think about this: If you are not sure that your trading is profitable, perhaps there are different items you could trade in that offer a larger margin?
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.06.10 12:20:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Reality G one
I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.
Welcome to my little "How to ask questions right" course.
1) When asking questions, key is to be as precise as possible. So instead of writing "almost every program" you'd list the applications you already tried and which didn't do what you want/the way you want it. This saves yourself and others the time of recommending tools you already tried out.
2) And instead of "[...] but none seem to do what I simply want", you also state what application A did, what you didn't like/want about the way it did the job. On top of that, describe how you'd like the application to handle that case.
3) Bonus points for contacting the developers and dropping them a short note along the lines of "Hi, I just tried your <x>, was looking after <thing>, but only found your tool to do <other thing>. Did I miss something? If not, you might want to consider adding this in an upcoming release of your tool." -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:32:00 -
[606]
What is special about the 14th of June?
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.06.14 16:58:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Ray McCormack What is special about the 14th of June?
On the 14th of June, 1789, the Reverend Elijah Craig first produced whiskey distilled from corn. It was called bourbon because Craig lived in Bourbon County, Kentucky. (According to Wikipedia.)
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.06.15 02:00:00 -
[608]
When is Eve going to work?
Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone...
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcv |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 03:37:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Ray McCormack What is special about the 14th of June?
My birthday IRL! What did you get me?
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2011.06.15 06:44:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 My birthday IRL! What did you get me?
1b ISK for every inch of ****.
I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches. |
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Jupix
Minmatar MuroBBS United
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Posted - 2011.06.17 19:36:00 -
[611]
What the hell is happening to technetium? 13 % drop in less than a month! Why?
Someone dumped almost 100B worth of it on the market one day, but other than that, it's just been falling day in and day out, no idea why.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 12:28:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Jupix What the hell is happening to technetium? 13 % drop in less than a month! Why?
Someone dumped almost 100B worth of it on the market one day, but other than that, it's just been falling day in and day out, no idea why.
New expansion means a potential moon rebalance; if one did drop, and tech was nerfed, its value would dump fast. People are panic selling because a CCP employee noted the moons needed to be rebalanced with a tech nerf "soon" in alliance tournament.
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Meuterer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.21 14:18:00 -
[613]
Is there some good article/post/guide/discussion on how to analyze the price history tab. something like this this, but maybe a bit more detailed / expressing alternative methods etc.
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Dark Inkura
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Posted - 2011.06.23 23:54:00 -
[614]
Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:59 Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:43 When looking at the market table view what do the "Orders" and "Quantity" tabs specify. Is it the number of buy orders that have been filled and the number of sell orders that have been bought from or something else?
Thanks.
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Enoch Schuldenberg
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Posted - 2011.06.24 22:02:00 -
[615]
Edited by: Enoch Schuldenberg on 24/06/2011 22:02:32
Originally by: Dark Inkura Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:59 Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:43 When looking at the market table view what do the "Orders" and "Quantity" tabs specify. Is it the number of buy orders that have been filled and the number of sell orders that have been bought from or something else?
Thanks.
It's a sum of both buy order and sell transactions (not orders) executed. It's all transactions that actually happened, how many of them were on the sell side, how many on the buy side - there is no way to tell for sure. However, under rules of supply and demand, if the average price (yellow dot on the history tab) is closer to the upper limits, you can safely assume that those were the sell orders filled in and vice versa.
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FearNo Evil
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Posted - 2011.06.26 23:32:00 -
[616]
First time posting, "How does a bond work exactly?"
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.06.27 19:02:00 -
[617]
Originally by: FearNo Evil First time posting, "How does a bond work exactly?"
It depends on the particular bond but in general MD bonds work like this:
Someone makes a "bond opening" post with conditions, interest %, length, and so on. People then reserve as much of the bond as they want or are allowed depending on the bond. When the bond is full, a "send isk" post will be made, at which point you should send the isk you pledged.
What happens from then, depends on the bond. Hopefully you will get your principal plus interest at some point in the future, but people DO scam from time to time.
And, thats about it.
If you are thinking about investing, I recommend you do your homework and look up the person you are investing on, their posting history, their NAV, etc etc etc.
But really if someone wants to keep your money, they will. Make sure you trust the person you send isk too. There ARE scammers here and there and investing should NOT be done lightly.
That is just my opinion though.
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FearNo Evil
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Posted - 2011.06.29 04:07:00 -
[618]
Thank You I appreciate your help
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Chevalleis
The Legendary Conquest
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:42:00 -
[619]
There's something in the markets that I don't seem to get. Take PLEX for example. I would assume that everybody would just keep 0.01 isking themselves. However plex rised over 25 million in a matter of days. (lotso 0.01 isking). How is this possible, unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally?
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Tekota
legion industries ltd AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.06.30 05:11:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Chevalleis unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally?
In most instances it's just this.
As to why, well the reasons could be numerous:
Folks not wanting to constantly 0.01 isk so assume if they put their order out there by a few million other traders will let that order fill rather than follow it and reduce their margins. Folks could be wanting to purposely change a perceived price point of an item because they have nefarious plans. They might want to drive a competitor out of a market by destroying margins as a loss leader for future exploitation. They might be doing it for giggles. Or they may have made a typo and set a sell order at buy order price (or vice versa).
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Tutskii
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:02:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Chevalleis There's something in the markets that I don't seem to get. Take PLEX for example. I would assume that everybody would just keep 0.01 isking themselves. However plex rised over 25 million in a matter of days. (lotso 0.01 isking). How is this possible, unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally?
If you want to increase the price of something you can do so by setting up orders 500 k or 1 m apart and hoping the market follows. There are numerous reasons to do this, for example, you may hope people won't follow such an increase, or you may have a stock of an item you are planning to dump on the increased buy orders.
Plex is a high volume good and several people buying at once will raise the price quickly as sell orders are usually separated by x amount of isk and are for relatively few units.
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SquirrelWizard
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:29:00 -
[622]
Edited by: SquirrelWizard on 05/07/2011 03:31:27 I'm looking to get into trading, and one of the things I foresee that I'm going to have to do is set up courier contracts to transport goods over vast(and some not so vast) distances. My question involves finding a fair payment per jump (assuming its all through highsec)for these contracts.
edit: I have seen the post for Red Frog Freight, but based on the info given in it, they're more oriented at large capacity courier contracts rather than the small capacity contracts I'd be making. Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.07.05 04:36:00 -
[623]
Originally by: SquirrelWizard Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan.
If i was you, i would lowball the reward untill you find the minimum ppl will accept, there is no rules to this. Start very low, if no-one takes it increase it slightly. Freighters waste money with half empty loads.
If you can't afford the premium courier's charge, but can afford the wait for the goods, do this. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Rhivre
Caldari TarNec
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Posted - 2011.07.05 11:07:00 -
[624]
Originally by: SquirrelWizard
edit: I have seen the post for Red Frog Freight, but based on the info given in it, they're more oriented at large capacity courier contracts rather than the small capacity contracts I'd be making. Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan.
You could take a look at Universal Railways (I think they are still going) to see if they are more in your price range
Universal Railways
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Tigerras
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:00:00 -
[625]
Question: How much should I ask for in an initial loan for a semi-first time poster to MD? And what is a reasonable interest rate? The loan term is going to be 1-2 months.
Background: I am returning to Eve after an absence, and need to jump-start my trading business. I want to expand it greatly, but don't want to risk too much money (especially other people's) while I shake off the cobwebs of 6 months of inactivity. I've used up much of my liquid assets to buy a PLEX, and while I'll have some more coming up liquid soon, I'm sitting doing nothing with a lot of my potential buying/selling capacity due to lack of funds.
500m would set me up pretty right now, 1b would be great, but I'm worried it would be too much for a first timer.
My past business experiences have been varied, but successful. I have run an overly sucessful standing service that gave me so much work I got burned out, and have been doing this trading thing to keep my account solvent and buy fun stuff for a while before quitting last time.
Regarding the interest rate question, I have a capital cargo bay BPO that I will have to sell in case the whole thing goes south to repay the loan. I don't want to give it to a third party, but am not sure if it counts as a collateralized loan if I am not giving it over as collateral. Any input on this?
Thanks.
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Tekota
legion industries ltd AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:42:00 -
[626]
Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss.
Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently.
Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan.
As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a *very* rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire.
The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
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analtanalt
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:20:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss.
Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently.
Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan.
As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a *very* rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire.
The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO.
I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice.
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analtanalt
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:58:00 -
[628]
Originally by: analtanalt
Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss.
Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently.
Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan.
As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a *very* rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire.
The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO.
I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice.
No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt.
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Tigerras
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.05 20:28:00 -
[629]
Originally by: analtanalt
Originally by: analtanalt
Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss.
Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently.
Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan.
As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a *very* rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire.
The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO.
I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice.
No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt.
*facepalm*
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Serene Python
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Posted - 2011.07.06 17:01:00 -
[630]
Originally by: analtanalt
Originally by: analtanalt
Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss.
Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently.
Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan.
As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a *very* rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire.
The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO.
I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice.
No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt.
Why don't you just embrace it? Let analtanalt be you're MD posting character?
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