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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 14:55:00 -
[1]
Ok so I admit to not having spent ANY time on SISI before the patch hit but I thouhgt I ll give them a chance for ****s and giggles...
Had a look at the infos and I was like WHAT!!! when I saw the velocity and sig radius stats... I thought on paper it looked like rage missles would do more damage to small targets than precisions... I said it can't be.
So I fit a Caracal with assault launchers and asked a corpm8 who was flying about in a Sabre (with mwd) to come and "speed tank" me. Well admittedly hardly laboratory conditions but anyway... My missle skills are serviceable I might add.
So I shot him with bloodclaws (70 odd damg) rage bloodclaws (104 odd damag) and precision bloodlcaws (60 odd dmg)... I came to the conclusion that the devs are mad and called it a day.
Also found out that understandably if you are shooting light missles at an mwding object a target painter makes no difference.
I did not ask him to fit AB and test that because I was too busy lolling ...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/12/2008 15:14:45
Originally by: Crellion So I shot him with bloodclaws (70 odd damg) rage bloodclaws (104 odd damag) and precision bloodlcaws (60 odd dmg)... I came to the conclusion that the devs are mad and called it a day.
Also found out that understandably if you are shooting light missles at an mwding object a target painter makes no difference.
This is because MWD is not particularly effective at speed-tanking missiles, with the speed boost mostly cancelled by the sig bloom. Especially if your target is as fat and slow as an interdictor. If you want to speed-tank missiles you need an AB - making you utterly useless for doing anything.
In this case, all the missiles hit for max damage - so obviously the painter wouldn't do anything. Such is the terrible nature of the missile "nerf".
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Crellion Ok so I admit to not having spent ANY time on SISI before the patch hit but I thouhgt I ll give them a chance for ****s and giggles... [..] I did not ask him to fit AB and test that because I was too busy lolling ...
Redo with AB and check results. Should be fun with a sabre.
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide.. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 15:47:00 -
[4]
According to Stafen formula and assuming TNP V and GMP IV:
3000 m/s MWDing MSE Sabre, sig 492 m: 100% damage from CN Lights 1170 m/s lol-ABing MSE Sabre, sig 82 m: 62% damage from CN Lights
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:40:00 -
[5]
Thxs for all the input dudes but you see nothing wrong with RAGE missles doing almost 2x the damage of PRECISION missles against a fast moving interdictor???
If not then nm lol... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:43:00 -
[6]
they are doing their best dmg, because the saber is always within the missiles stats.
Try the same test with an inty not a saber.
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 16:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dr Fighter they are doing their best dmg, because the saber is always within the missiles stats.
Try the same test with an inty not a saber.
Read the missle descriptions... there is a small difference in sig (that is actually negated by a bonused TP) but the explosion velocity stat is actually BETTER for rage missles...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/12/2008 17:02:27
Originally by: Crellion Thxs for all the input dudes but you see nothing wrong with RAGE missles doing almost 2x the damage of PRECISION missles against a fast moving interdictor???
If not then nm lol...
MWDs are for getting from A to B, not for speed-tanking. Especially not when fitted on a fat, slow interdictor.
PS. It's Fury missiles.
PPS. But really there's two issues here. The first is that MWDs aren't very good at speed-tanking missiles, which is absolutely fine and intended by CCP. The second is that interdictors have no survivability. Which may be a problem, but I don't have the experience to comment further.
Edit - yes, Fury LM explosion velocity is slightly greater than T1, which is slightly odd. But explosion velocity isn't a particularly important stat these days - explosion radius is much more important, and LM Fury has 63.8 m, relative to 37.5 m of T1.
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:12:00 -
[9]
Gypsio ty for correcting the fury/ rage thingy.
Pls note the explosion velocity is better ALSO than precision, not just tech 1 and that is (I think)my main gripe...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Crellion Pls note the explosion velocity is better ALSO than precision, not just tech 1 and that is (I think)my main gripe...
Hmm, I'm showing T1 = 255 m/s, Precision = 269 m/s, Fury = 261 m/s.
But I think that you're putting too much emphasis on the explosion velocity stat - sig radius is more important. The other problem is your choice of ship in the test - a MWDing Sabre is a big, fat target, semi-oversized relative to LMs.
If you look at the numbers for LMs vs. a 5.2 km/s Inties V Ares, for example, you get:
CN: 25% damage Precision: 33% damage Fury: 15% damage
Which makes more sense, although there's still no reason to use Precisions against an orbiting inty because of their gimped range, but it hardly matters because any interceptor under skilled CN LM fire will be killed or forced to warp in just a few volleys.
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:37:00 -
[11]
Mmm I see... given speed balancing is there any point to fit a cruiser/Cerb with AMLs compared to using 5 warrior IIs (or 3) on any other cruiser/HAC/BC coupled with guns for same size targets?
I have a feeling that AMLs do not have a real niche...
Ty for your posts anyway, I think indeed I should test with an inty for target.
As for AB I am not testing it because its pointless. AML is for gang/fleet situations as I see it and there whoever fits AB is dead anyway... its the MWDing high orbits I am concerned with.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Ravenal
The Fated
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:49:00 -
[12]
yeah, precision missles are used to hit "smaller" targets ... by definition the interdictor is not smaller than a light missile ... so no gain there. . |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Crellion Mmm I see... given speed balancing is there any point to fit a cruiser/Cerb with AMLs compared to using 5 warrior IIs (or 3) on any other cruiser/HAC/BC coupled with guns for same size targets?
I have a feeling that AMLs do not have a real niche...
Well, a Cerberus with AMLs and missile velocity rigs is effectively a ~100 km frigate death bubble. Even a newbie or clueless PVEer in a Caracal will be reasonably effective - once they've been told how to fit the ship right. It's reliable, predictable DPS - the target can't escape by fancy flying or manipulating range and transversal, like against, for example, a beam Zealot.
I don't really have the turret or inty experience for a proper comparison, being completely specialised in missiles, but I'm very happy with the performance of my AML Cerb since QR.
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Exlegion
Caldari New Light
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Posted - 2008.12.05 17:59:00 -
[14]
Actually and in my opinion, T2 long range missiles are perfect. The devs got these right. The penalties are reasonable, and the benefits are well worth it.
Furies are the new 'old torps'. And I absolutely love them on my Golem.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.05 19:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 05/12/2008 19:45:18 Think of the missiles drf as the new ( previously hidden) AoE falloff modifier. Its the drf that determines how quickly damage fallsoff with speed. And yes, rage is a bit wonky, depending on targets.
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Leeluvv
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.06 00:17:00 -
[16]
Precision Lights are a waste of time and ISK. They do slightly (very slightly) more dam than faction against small targets, but with half the range. As I said in another thread, when you are shooting at a fast moving target and your missiles have half the range there is a high chance that you wont hit, even if the target is well within range when you launch, as the target will move beyond your range before you hit.
Lee == Sig to follow |
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