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DeadDuck
Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ecatherina W heretical words
You bore me.
________________ God is my Wingman |
Seph Res
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:21:00 -
[32]
beware next time they will use their titans against the class, so it will be the first one lost to a frigswarm hopefully |
Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:22:00 -
[33]
At the end of the day sev3rance have done nothing wrong.
You took a group of pilots down to Providence and started shooting neutrals even though many of your gang were not red to CVA.
The unfortunate downside of NRDS (not red don't shoot) is that yes - the first time someone new shows up in our region we don't automatically shoot them. That is after all why it is called NRDS.
Of course some people abuse this to score some cheap easy kills - that is the price we pay for having some principles. However those who do abuse they system then get set KOS and next time they visit it's not quite so easy
Now where the complication comes in is that CVA and our Providence friends hold entire corporations responsible for the actions of their individual members. So basically those members of your class that decided to violate their neutral status were doing so on behalf of their entire corps.
Now as reasonable people we are aware that often corporations may not be aware of the actions of their individual pilots.
Rather than have these corporations discover the fact that they are red the hard way the next time one of their members enters Providence (which of course leads to regular complaints of CVA piracy on these boards) we instead have a policy of contacting the corporation leadership directly and informing them.
We also offer the corporation the opportunity to repudiate the actions of their errant member and pay for his/her sins. In this way these corporations (if they so wish) can continue to operate in the Providence region without fear of being ganked by venegeful residents.
It is of course completely up to the corporation leadership whether they want to back their errant member or whether they decide to kick them and pay for their sins, but that is of course their perrogative.
We have been more than fair in informing them and offering them the choice. Whether they decide to take us up on it is another matter which comes down to the leadership of each corporation. It always surprises me how many actually do pay in order to keep their Providence access open.
The CVA already has the largest KOS list in the game because we do not take people off unless they pay reparitions and show contrition for their sin (Hiya KIA ). Now this may be inconvenient but we are 'lol rpers' and therefore don't do things the normal way...
Amarr Victor!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:25:00 -
[34]
TBH, Agony Unleashed should offer to pay the whole of the damages.
After all, it was their op, and 60m isn't that much for a corp with their reputation.
Alternatively, I guess that their clients could simply ask for their money back on the grounds that a basic PvP course should include such elements as "do some research on where you are, who lives there, and who it is that you're about to shoot at"
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Spoon Thumb
Caldari Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ecatherina W Edited by: Ecatherina W on 10/12/2008 12:14:58
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
If you get involved, you're no longer neutral by defenition
You have invented smartbombs that only fire on people who have aggressed you or are set red? If not, then your pilot was aiming to be offensive towards neutrals, as anyone could have been on that gate or going through it when we engaged him.
As far as I can see, any area effect weapon is an automatic breach of NRDS policy. If the domi pilot killed one single pilot who is not on a killmail involving his alliance, then I think the CEO of that corp should demand that he is kicked from corp.
Well you could certainly claim compensation if you were wrongly killed by a disco domi, and yes accidents do happen. I had to pay once for the old classic of drone aggro on someone trying to remote rep me :P
The difference of course is that you don't kick people from corp for accidents. It isn't an accident joining a gang specifically for killing neutrals and going out of your way to do so
_______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hardin
...snip lots of misconceptions from an elsehow esteemed and intelligent poster... so I'll answer.
1) It wasn't my class, I just flew along. While I am a former member of Agony, I haven't been in Agony for 6 months or more. 2) My alliance and its member corps, as well as Agony, have been shooting CVA and allies before - as far back as 2005, I think.
I don't mind people flying NRDS. I don't practice it, but that does not mean I do not think it is a valid choice for you to make. Just don't expect others to follow it just because they jump into a system where you are.
I would back my members on attacking any lawful target - ie. anyone not blue - any day of the week just as much as you back your allys "right" to seek reimbursement. I still LOL at the fact that if this Domi pilot is successful at getting 2.1 bill, then he is one of the most successful scammers in Eve. ***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide
Kaths blog about all things Eve |
Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
The difference of course is that you don't kick people from corp for accidents. It isn't an accident joining a gang specifically for killing neutrals and going out of your way to do so
It isn't an accident fitting all large smartbombs and then heading towards a group of frigs...
Ergo, domi pilot was out to get "easy" kills and now demands retribution. Fail logic IMHO. ***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide
Kaths blog about all things Eve |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ecatherina W
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
The difference of course is that you don't kick people from corp for accidents. It isn't an accident joining a gang specifically for killing neutrals and going out of your way to do so
It isn't an accident fitting all large smartbombs and then heading towards a group of frigs...
Ergo, domi pilot was out to get "easy" kills and now demands retribution. Fail logic IMHO.
Maybe not an accident, but I believe that under the CVA's rules of engagement it would be perfectly justifiable if the firgate pack had previously shown an unwillingness to obey the rules of Providence by attacking neutrals.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:54:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Hardin on 10/12/2008 12:56:21
It's not the Domi pilot demanding retribution - its 'the system'
Basically everyone who participated in killing that Domi is now red. In addition their corps are red too.
The CVA (or in this case sev3rance) is simply offering corporation leaders a chance to rectify that.
If you were CEO of a corp that regularly uses Providence for mining/ratting/trading and suddenly discovered that thanks to the actions of one of your members (which you may have known nothing about) that that access to 0.0 was no longer available and that a substantial chunk of income was now denied to you then I am sure you would be quite happy (well maybe not happy) to pay 60 million to rectify your corpies mistake.
Of course some wont but that's not our problem.
This isn't something we have come up with overnight with which to fleece people. This is something we have practiced for over 4 years.
Labelling this as a 'scam' is about as intelligent as bringing a class of people into Providence, start shooting the locals and then expecting no consequences.
If anything is fail it is your logic good sir
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 10/12/2008 12:56:21
If anything is fail it is your logic good sir
NOW you insult me!!! I am not, nor have I ever been, a male.
***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide
Kaths blog about all things Eve |
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Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:58:00 -
[41]
Ooops...
I apologise good wench! ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Danton Marcellus
Gallente Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:25:00 -
[42]
It's politics, nothing more, nothing less, something most EVE don't bother with, a commendable effort.
Negotiated a deal or be set red, I'm sure they welcome the latter.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Hardin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus It's politics, nothing more, nothing less, something most EVE don't bother with, a commendable effort.
Negotiated a deal or be set red, I'm sure they welcome the latter.
No doubt! ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
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Zignar
Gallente Loyalty projects
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:33:00 -
[44]
Well I for once think it is a good way to do buissins. It will alow ppl like me in a small corp to enter 0.0 with out having to "bribe" (pay rent) to som alliance there kicks us out becurse now thy want that system anyway. Zignar |
Schwermetall
Amarr Bad Passion Sternhagel
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:41:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Schwermetall on 10/12/2008 13:42:37 Edit: nevermind
______________________
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Wolfster
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.10 14:24:00 -
[46]
there are NERDS living in providence?
this is a surprise i thought there were no nerds in eve
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Hammer Of Light Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.12.10 14:28:00 -
[47]
Ohhhh I really hope you try this operation again
really...
Its been kinda slow with AAA fighting Goons...
Your neutral status is im sure taken away by now... [/url] |
Wolfster
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.10 14:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ShadowandLight Ohhhh I really hope you try this operation again
really...
Its been kinda slow with AAA fighting Goons...
Your neutral status is im sure taken away by now...
are -A- fighting goons ?
haven't seen them
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Mogren
Gallente Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.12.10 14:40:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Mogren on 10/12/2008 14:40:59 tl;dr version
Domi pilot decides to fit a smartbomb solopwnmobile to kill 100 frigs Domi pilot crashes and burns without jihad victory Domi pilot cries Severance demands reparations for their pilot being an utter idiot
I say you take what you learned from the class, grab a few friends, and put the knowledge to use.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.10 14:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mogren Edited by: Mogren on 10/12/2008 14:40:59 tl;dr version
Domi pilot decides to fit a smartbomb solopwnmobile to kill 100 frigs Domi pilot crashes and burns without jihad victory Domi pilot cries Severance demands reparations for their pilot being an utter idiot
I say you take what you learned from the class, grab a few friends, and put the knowledge to use.
I don't expect any more from SoT. Well done, warrior of words.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ecatherina W
Originally by: Hardin
...snip lots of misconceptions from an elsehow esteemed and intelligent poster... so I'll answer.
1) It wasn't my class, I just flew along. While I am a former member of Agony, I haven't been in Agony for 6 months or more. 2) My alliance and its member corps, as well as Agony, have been shooting CVA and allies before - as far back as 2005, I think.
I don't mind people flying NRDS. I don't practice it, but that does not mean I do not think it is a valid choice for you to make. Just don't expect others to follow it just because they jump into a system where you are.
I would back my members on attacking any lawful target - ie. anyone not blue - any day of the week just as much as you back your allys "right" to seek reimbursement. I still LOL at the fact that if this Domi pilot is successful at getting 2.1 bill, then he is one of the most successful scammers in Eve.
Your hair splitting abilities are approaching Star Fraction-like proportions. Did the class end with a celebratory blowjob to Jade Constantine when it was over? In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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HakanSherif
Minmatar Amok.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ecatherina W
Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 10/12/2008 12:56:21
If anything is fail it is your logic good sir
NOW you insult me!!! I am not, nor have I ever been, a male.
Now that explains it all.
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6Bagheera9
Minmatar Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:08:00 -
[53]
My experience with CVA and pets is that they do whatever they please and then claim that it is for glory of Amarr and to bring law and order to Providence. Its a load of malarkey (screw you word filter.) Among other things they have been known to attack Amarr FW crusaders in hot pursuit of Tribal Liberation Front terrorists. My advice is to continue raiding Providence, its only a matter of time before the Empress looses the last of her patience and brands them heretics.
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Tronjay
Caldari THE INSURGENCY DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:35:00 -
[54]
Originally by: shanda captison If some were neutral to him he shouldn't have been trying to pop them all in his disco domi.
You heard it here first guys, Providence friends dont accept you into their space if you're neutral at all.
Altho off topic, you guys are still full of revenge once you were kicked out of Providence. It is not the current Providence Holders who shoot neutral, NO .... it's you who do pop neutrals on a daily basis. Nothing wrong with that, but stick to the facts plz.
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Fortiter
Gallente Kurtz's Kommandos
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:35:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ecatherina W Edited by: Ecatherina W on 10/12/2008 12:14:58
Originally by: Spoon Thumb
If you get involved, you're no longer neutral by defenition
You have invented smartbombs that only fire on people who have aggressed you or are set red? If not, then your pilot was aiming to be offensive towards neutrals, as anyone could have been on that gate or going through it when we engaged him.
OP is a r e t a r d. Do your corp/alliance a favor and shut up. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Xiaodown
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hardin
((completely well reasoned and well spoken post, as is normal for Hardin))
We have been more than fair in informing them and offering them the choice. Whether they decide to take us up on it is another matter which comes down to the leadership of each corporation. It always surprises me how many actually do pay in order to keep their Providence access open.
Amarr Victor!
I have, and have always had, huge respect for Hardin, and for what you folks are doing in providence.
Having said that, this guy is no innocent ratter just trying to make a living in 0.0. He obviously heard about a frig swarm in some intel channel, and PURPOSELY went and fit a ship, thinking he'd be the hero when his smartbombs killed 50 frigates. He wasn't caught unawares (although how someone could be caught unawares when 90 people enter local is beyond me). He was LOOKING for a fight.
And then, after he WILLINGLY entered combat (and lost), he has the gall to send an email to 35 different corp CEO's and demand 60 million isk and an apology. However it's "supposed" to work, the wording of the mail says "send me 60M isk". If two corps comply, not knowing better, and send him 60M, he essentially scammed money.
My point being, Hardin, that according to NRDS, if this frig gang running around shooting innocents that are unawares of their intentions, that's one thing. This guy threw his chips in the pot, and refuses to live with the consequences. It's all well and good to say gambling is bad, but if you ante up, you can't lose your shirt, then demand all your money back and ask that everyone else leave the table because the rules of this particular table are that I ALWAYS WIN!!. Doesn't work that way.
In short, I think in this situation, the CVA policy is being abused by this guy. When you commit to PVP, when you look for a fight, there are no innocent parties. Any of the other ships that this frig gang popped has a legitimate claim. This guy, not so much.
~X --
Sig under construction.
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Garreck
Gallente Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ecatherina W
As far as I can see, any area effect weapon is an automatic breach of NRDS policy. If the domi pilot killed one single pilot who is not on a killmail involving his alliance, then I think the CEO of that corp should demand that he is kicked from corp.
Actually...he'd be asked to reimburse the non-aggressive pilot in question. Amazingly enough.
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Xiaodown
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 15:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mogren Edited by: Mogren on 10/12/2008 14:40:59 tl;dr version
Domi pilot decides to fit a smartbomb solopwnmobile to kill 100 frigs Domi pilot crashes and burns without jihad victory Domi pilot cries Severance demands reparations for their pilot being an utter idiot
I say you take what you learned from the class, grab a few friends, and put the knowledge to use.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I said, but with 90% fewer words. --
Sig under construction.
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Ecatherina W
Gallente Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.12.10 16:02:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Ecatherina W
As far as I can see, any area effect weapon is an automatic breach of NRDS policy. If the domi pilot killed one single pilot who is not on a killmail involving his alliance, then I think the CEO of that corp should demand that he is kicked from corp.
Actually...he'd be asked to reimburse the non-aggressive pilot in question. Amazingly enough.
Double standards, since the "CVA standard" seems to be to demand the expulsion of the offending pilot. Not that amazing, though.
***** Ecatherina W ***** Empress of the Multiverse
DGAF Newbie Guide
Kaths blog about all things Eve |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 16:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9 Among other things they have been known to attack Amarr FW crusaders in hot pursuit of Tribal Liberation Front terrorists.
As a member of the militia I have absolutely no problem with them doing that when the militia members in question are using their militia activities to mask less savoury deeds elsewhere.
More specifically, if Slackers don't like being on the CVA's KOS list, then perhaps they should take appropriate action to get themselves taken off that list. And of course that includes not continuing to denigrate the CVA's efforts at every opportunity.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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