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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.12.11 01:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 10/12/2008 20:41:22 Well then yeah, per month it's pretty low. But if you consider the discovers probably only ran one or two like this. Why bother flooding the market even at a cheap price there comes a time when it's just not worth it. The logistics of moving a single product's worth over a month is incredible, I would imagine the discovers would just narrow to keep logistics low. So I suspect they narrowed it down and said a single POS doing this is as profitable as Ten poses doing it.
Even at 100% output the profit per month is probably about right considering the limitations of the production being tied to time.
This makes a lot of sense. The real question is, if this is all true, how many of the said entities realized this.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
≡v≡ |
Mari Katarin
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Posted - 2008.12.11 04:21:00 -
[32]
Another possible play is high meta T1 goods.
The t2 component volumes for public markets may have been scant; but you can bet the volumes used for internal alliance production were not. Much fewer logistic problems if you can produce all the t2 components out of thin air on site and staple them together just in time for alliance ops.
People used to flying t2 will want to continue doing this. So they'll suddenly be competing with the empire market.
Might be interesting to watch the GTC/30 day market as well. Plenty of alts were no doubt soaking up the demand; and plenty of prospective sellers weren't motivated to do so because of hull & fitting prices.
tl;dr: this is an AWESOME time to be a trader.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.11 05:40:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Akita T I'm sorry, but I think I accidentally the whole T2 market
One thing is for certain, based on the volumes and purchases being made in Jita at the moment, people are still clueless as to the links you, I, and many others have pointed out in the T2 production chain.
Since I've already stocked up enough to make sure I make a tidy sum, here is a clue to those missing this train.
If high end reactions weren't using low ends for this exploit..... one would think that it might be prudent to purchase the right qty and type of the low ends?
....just saying
Here's my take. Both you and Akita are cold-hearted manipulators of high quality. Plus, you understand the t2 chain market far better than I do. So you want that I should throw money in? I might as well just write you guys a check. How many zeros would you like on that?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:10:00 -
[34]
After making that post I took my own advice and bought some ferrogel. Not a lot, just used the spare ISK in my wallet.
Well, I just finished selling it for the easiest 3B I've ever made.
Again, I bought that after posting this thread so don't say I never did nothing for ya.
In my opinion there's a lot of volatility left in the market and I might just buy into some of the lower end's that haven't been "adjusted" yet. Especially those that were already abnormally low, for instance Fullerides and at least two Carbides.
My thinking is that if Ferrogel was being conjured it wasn't just dysprosium/promethium who's supply was being inflated but also the supply of the lesser components. This may translate over to the lower end minerals. Also, the alliances still needed the other advanced materials and may well have found it easier to produce them on-site via the exploit so for all we know they could also now be under-supplied. Combine that possibility with a speculative atmosphere and already low prices and it seems like true or not one stands to profit by calling a few of the cheaper sell orders.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:24:00 -
[35]
Personally I'm more curious where the cash to dump in t2 is coming from. Usually this means someone sells off assets since the people to speculate in this sort of thing aren't likely to sit on large piles of stagnant cash.
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Usually this means someone sells off assets since the people to speculate in this sort of thing aren't likely to sit on large piles of stagnant cash.
I wouldn't discount the number of people who have large piles of stagnant cash because they're saving up to buy a marauder/faction ship/carrier etc. I know that the correct way to do this is to keep the money working for you rather than just sitting around, but there are a lot of hopeless traders out there () who aren't very good at doing that.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Personally I'm more curious where the cash to dump in t2 is coming from. Usually this means someone sells off assets since the people to speculate in this sort of thing aren't likely to sit on large piles of stagnant cash.
I usually have about 10% of my operating capital sitting in my wallet. I axed a few orders to free up a bit more ISK. With that I was able to buy enough ferrogel to make 3B profit off of it and I've now invested in a few other things. I'll let you decide where that pegs my total assets. Anyways, the point is that even a good trader usually has 10% lying around (if for no reason other than margin trading L4) when you're talking about guys that are working with 100B that means they've got 10B liquid. Multiply that by a couple dozen and you've got enough ISK to cover what we're seeing moving around the market. Then throw in the producers who have decided to stock up now rather than risk a massive price hike and you're looking at enough ISK to quite quickly clean out the stock sitting on the market.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 10:50:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 11/12/2008 10:55:14
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Well, I just finished selling it for the easiest 3B I've ever made.
If it isn't too forward of me to ask, what was the buy price you met? I've been stuffing about in there too (though to a lesser degree) and now I'm curious.
That being said, I've made a mere 100,000,000.00 ISK in the last hour or so with just a little light and careful trading in the moon mineral and reaction material areas of exchange. I saw someone express the expectation elsewhere of 100,000 for ferrogel near the end but I don't expect it to even pass 50,000 on the outside, if cooler heads prevail.
It will, at the very least, be an interesting next few days.
EDIT: despite the good name of the poster, I half expected to read "buy low, sell high" as the eponymous market tip.
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Lieutenant Obvious
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 12:15:00 -
[39]
On a capital of around 2.5b I've made about 1b from Ferrogel in the past 16hrs, with about 40mins of work.
Well, I will have, once I can get my 80k of ferro sold in jita that's currently sitting in my fenrir in some system on my freighter char who's subscription ran out about 60 minutes ago during downtime!
Damnit. Bye bye profit, hello 60d gtc.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Personally I'm more curious where the cash to dump in t2 is coming from. Usually this means someone sells off assets since the people to speculate in this sort of thing aren't likely to sit on large piles of stagnant cash.
I took what I had in my slush which I generally maintain around 15% of my total asset value. I keep it that high for speculative moments just like this.
I also got permission to raid the current corp wallet and throw a percentage of that in as well.
...Lots of zeroes.... ohh yeah you can make the check out the CASH |
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:38:00 -
[41]
Well, at least they took action swiftly once known
FTL
The effects of our actions against the exploiters will also be felt on the market as the production of the materials has been cut substantially. However, supply should increase again once players have mastered the alchemy process.
Understatement of the year |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:39:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Akita T on 11/12/2008 13:41:54
It's time like this when the MD is worth reading for the lulz...
Me, I'm a lazy-ass trader. I stockpile before changes with minimal effort, then get patient until my target is reached, then unload with minimal effort. Sure, I'm not maximizing my ISK income, but I sure as hell am maximizing ISK per time spent ingame... heh.
P.S. Anybody want to buy discount* bulk Crystalline Carbonide couple of weeks from now ? * "discount" meaning, oh, well, how about 100 per unit ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Feronia
Gallente Magma Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.11 14:39:00 -
[43]
I was fortunate enough to have been stocking up on moon materials in the last week, because I considered most of them fairly cheap. So already had enough stock for the next 2 months production.
After reading Kwint's post (Thank you, Kwint) and checking the SHC forum I decided to double my stock on Fermionic Condensates, Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers shortly before the madness began.
I now have nearly all the high ends to build my next 50 Jump Freighters and I was pleasantly surprised to see the added value today.
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar MBN Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.11 15:07:00 -
[44]
Another few bil earned with little effort, always a nice feeling .
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar MBN Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.11 15:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 11/12/2008 15:32:09
Originally by: Joss Sparq I saw someone express the expectation elsewhere of 100,000 for ferrogel near the end but I don't expect it to even pass 50,000 on the outside, if cooler heads prevail.
Ferrogel only hit 40k and cheapest is 34k in Amarr at the moment.
The market is crashing!
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Mari Katarin
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Posted - 2008.12.11 15:46:00 -
[46]
So, who's moved their ferrogel speculation profits into empire ice?
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Enihcam Xes
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:51:00 -
[47]
This is such an exciting change in EVE. While ferro* is where the big action is, my logs indicate a substantial buy-up of all things t2. I've pulled a good deal of my items from the market, and started taking a speculative stance. My goal is to accellerate the exhaustion of supply and force producers in my markets to dump their reserves. I would like to see producers get caught up in having to buy their mats before the speculative bubble bursts. I know this is pretty basic, but I wanted to get the idea out there to all the cookie-cutter traders to increase the trend.
We all know there is going to be a natural price increase in, well, everything. We are all good traders and know when to jump on trends. I just wanted to point out that no matter what you buy right now you really can't go wrong.
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:09:00 -
[48]
I have to say I am a bit disapppointed with CCP. The proper response to this would have been to seed some the moons with the missing minerals. Instead they are saying that Alchemy will bring in the needed the supply. That may be, but I wish Alchemy could have been made viable by player market action or wars and not a massive exploit being shut down. -------------------
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:36:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jacque Custeau I have to say I am a bit disapppointed with CCP. The proper response to this would have been to seed some the moons with the missing minerals. Instead they are saying that Alchemy will bring in the needed the supply. That may be, but I wish Alchemy could have been made viable by player market action or wars and not a massive exploit being shut down.
Well its funny really since Alchemy MAY actually be able to seed the needed mats.
Remember all of us talking about alchemy some months back, well everything we speculated on is bull**** at this point since the numbers we were looking at are obviously not true. Most of us were extrapolating the possible number of dyspro moons based on the volumes being traded, with the margin of error being assumed that some was kept aside for internal consumption. What we saw was that there was no way the number of Cadmium moons could ever possible compete with dyspro and have enough left over for the cadmium production line.
This is a warning right now for anyone sitting on a Cadmium and/or Haf moon... you need to make sure they alliance up quick.
One thing is for certain as well low sec space just got a little more interesting in the course of a single day. |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.11 21:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joss Sparq
Originally by: Kwint Sommer Well, I just finished selling it for the easiest 3B I've ever made.
If it isn't too forward of me to ask, what was the buy price you met? I've been stuffing about in there too (though to a lesser degree) and now I'm curious.
I got in at 18.5k and got out a few hours later at 26.9k, a very healthy 45% markup.
Originally by: Joss Sparq EDIT: despite the good name of the poster, I half expected to read "buy low, sell high" as the eponymous market tip.
The only reason we post things like that is because we get tired of all the noobs and alts asking dumb questions. In there absence we actually have quite a bit of meaningful market discussion. Hence, my vehement objection to MD being moved.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.11 22:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
The only reason we post things like that is because we get tired of all the noobs and alts asking dumb questions. In there absence we actually have quite a bit of meaningful market discussion. Hence, my vehement objection to MD being moved.
I just hope CCP never finds any exploits in the Hot Delicious Maple Syrup market.
...I'd be devestated |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.11 22:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
The only reason we post things like that is because we get tired of all the noobs and alts asking dumb questions. In there absence we actually have quite a bit of meaningful market discussion. Hence, my vehement objection to MD being moved.
I just hope CCP never finds any exploits in the Hot Delicious Maple Syrup market.
...I'd be devestated
You and me both.
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.12 00:32:00 -
[53]
I don't want this to come off as a whine, so I apologize if it does. Despite what many people believe, the high end industrialists like myself and market traders don't just generate isk while sitting on our collective rears. It takes a lot of research, spreadsheets and risky decisions to make a profit. You tend to your POS's, make sure your silos don't overflow, you stay up late at night waiting on a manufacturing job just so you can submit the other one. You open another acct or train your existing pvp'er to produce items because you simply cant use enough slots to meet demand. You look at moon mineral prices and make risky decisions, like buy and react now, or let the starbase idle for the next week. When you do get isk, you do your research and try to decide what the next venture will be. That's EvE to me and I love it. But exploits like this cheapen the effort everyone goes through.
I bet the people who did this exploit would sometimes be so callous they would let the silos overflow - they had a free lunch. Its like printing isk. Did EvE not get boring over those 4 years? Was it really fun to play on cheat mode? -------------------
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.12 00:59:00 -
[54]
I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I put quite a lot of time into legitimating running reactors, but this thread isn't the place for that discussion. This thread was intended to give people a head's up about coming changes in the market.
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J Tang
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Posted - 2008.12.12 04:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jacque Custeau I have to say I am a bit disapppointed with CCP. The proper response to this would have been to seed some the moons with the missing minerals. Instead they are saying that Alchemy will bring in the needed the supply. That may be, but I wish Alchemy could have been made viable by player market action or wars and not a massive exploit being shut down.
That feels too much like a bailout. Why introduce extra minerals from thin air when they just put an end to an exploit that did just that? I think that would falsify the market longer than it already has been. I understand it being introduced as a gradual transition, but then it would take Kwint longer than a few hours to make 3b.
A volatile market is more fun.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 09:13:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 12/12/2008 09:20:14
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I got in at 18.5k and got out a few hours later at 26.9k, a very healthy 45% markup.
Cheers. I stepped in near 26k and stepped out at around 30k but only swallowed a few small orders to do it and only for a small profit. Still, it was fun to watch things move up every few minutes. Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: Joss Sparq EDIT: despite the good name of the poster, I half expected to read "buy low, sell high" as the eponymous market tip.
The only reason we post things like that is because we get tired of all the noobs and alts asking dumb questions. In there absence we actually have quite a bit of meaningful market discussion. Hence, my vehement objection to MD being moved.
Well I'm somewhat ambivalent about the change, though to be fair those kinds of comments (buy low, sell high) did appear before the move. Though I never expected to feel nostalgic about the time before the movement of a forum I don't even post in very often!
EDIT: All else aside, I strongly encourage anyone and everyone to buy the Ferrogel listed beneath 31.9K - you'll see why when you do. I mean, it isn't as if I mistook one set of Market window contents for another which I'd been looking at earlier in the evening and bought nearly a hundred thousand units of the wrong commodity by mistake, is it?
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: J Tang
Originally by: Jacque Custeau I have to say I am a bit disapppointed with CCP. The proper response to this would have been to seed some the moons with the missing minerals. Instead they are saying that Alchemy will bring in the needed the supply. That may be, but I wish Alchemy could have been made viable by player market action or wars and not a massive exploit being shut down.
That feels too much like a bailout. Why introduce extra minerals from thin air when they just put an end to an exploit that did just that? I think that would falsify the market longer than it already has been. I understand it being introduced as a gradual transition, but then it would take Kwint longer than a few hours to make 3b.
A volatile market is more fun.
CCP already introduced alchemy to influence the market. The current ratios in alchemy were based upon numbers that we now know were wrong. Time for them to tweak the ratios. -------------------
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.04 20:29:00 -
[58]
this will not end well Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Xabier
Amarr THE SORORITY
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Posted - 2009.01.04 20:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SiJira this will not end well
Annual spamfest again SiJira?
Xabiers Capital Bond #1/2 (FINISHED)
Xabiers Capital Bond #3/4
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.04 20:40:00 -
[60]
Edited by: SiJira on 04/01/2009 20:40:14
Originally by: Xabier
Originally by: SiJira this will not end well
Daily spamSiJira?
no i mean the market manipulation Trashed sig, Shark was here |
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