| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 95 :: one page |
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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:09:00 -
[1501]
So, what about the GMs involved in intercepting petitions for their own personal gain (or for the personal gain of friends in game), and the GMs involved in alerting their friends that the exploit has been outed and that they need to rip down their towers or start reacting materials legitimately? |
Veroid
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:10:00 -
[1502]
Edited by: Veroid on 12/12/2008 11:13:02
 Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Veroid
...
No reason to lie?
He has showed that he cared for the power in game using this exploit, at the same time he has showed he don't care for the other players or game balance.
So now his power has been removed, and you think that he is not bitter and angry and not trying to get back at CCP?
You have a lot of misplaced faith in the fellow humans beings.
no, i actually CAN read what he has written :) and not everyones luck is bound to his standing in the eve universe. there are still people out there which dont care that much. just imagine.
edit: perhaps you forgot that he had petitioned it ? when there was no reaction he made the most fun of it.
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WaiKin Beldar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:10:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: zag streller
Given the size of this forum thread it appears to have got a large segment of the EVE player base involved. People complain about the lack of immersion in EVE. There have been parallels of such events in the real world. I worked for a major company that rigged the entire European steel market for years before being caught and subjected to gigantic fines (but they are still in business). There is an unprecedented opportunity here. Let's embrace this as a role-playing event within the EVE universe itself. We could have statements from the major faction leaders, CONCORD criminal investigations and trials with public hearings. Given how emotionally involved the players have become this could actually be turned into an epic event within the game environment itself rather than the negative and destructive RL approach thatĘs currently being pursued.
Given the size of your stupidity you chose the bad place for your pshycosocial experiments.
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:11:00 -
[1504]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 12/12/2008 11:13:26
Actually pos exploit looks like same bug happened to Pos labs sometime ago and fixed (you could offline pos labs and jobs would continue ).What is weird is when labs fixed CCP did not look other areas
Btw gnulpie said several times until invention moon mining was something alot of alliances did not bothered income/time ratio was not worth for alot ppl at 0.0 may be except industry freaks or alliances with tech2 bpos (even with exploit) only demand came from tech2 bpo owners and limited .
If you would worry you should for last 2 years not for last 4years 
Originally by: Veroid
i think that this is really going on since poses where introduced. the one who made the initial post in the german eveo forum had no reason to lie. i believe him everything he said.
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Katrina Amazon
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:15:00 -
[1505]
It sucks cause why try so hard to play by the rules, and every one has not only aces up their sleeves but also has their coats stuffed full of spare decks
and you look at ***(allince) and think "******* must be a good leader" and it turns out hes actually a cheating b******d, no better then an aimbotter in an FPS game
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August Stellaris
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:15:00 -
[1506]
This seems to be huge!
I'm a rookie, but this must leave major impacts on the economy in Eve. A shame it took so long to unconver it.
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Janiza Draken
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:15:00 -
[1507]
Could someone maybe explain what happend in detail or maybe point to a post that explains the whole situation? Reading 51 pages doesn't really help 
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Chuzakh
Caldari
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:16:00 -
[1508]
Originally by: C4w3
taken from eve-search http://eve-search.com/thread/216634/page/2#47
Maltroc
Take me to the EVE-Online forum thread View author employment history View author posting habits View only posts by author Posted - 2005.09.01 16:30:00 - [47]
Edited by: Maltroc on 01/09/2005 16:31:30
Originally by: kieronWhat Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
Kieron could you check your email (I know you receive loads and are quite busy :) because our corp suffered from POS exploit some time ago. We petioned the event with quite a bit of evidence (fraps, howto).
The GM closed the petition while providing another "solution" for the events. This caused a lot of frustration. Their solution isn't possible the given game mechanics. A second unanswered petition is still going this ages without answer while the first was lost...
Now some days ago the same exploit happened again with another G POS.
Well you can guess that we are a bit frustrated since we provided information how it happened while we get told something that doesn't even work.
</understatement>
PS: I won't go into the details because it would just get the thread locked.
(sorry for late quote, didn't get to answer before)
Honestly - this doesn't sound like a POS exploit which is actually printing money, I'd say the frustration-factor would be pretty slim with it. The phrasing "our corp suffered from POS exploit" is actually indicating that they had something done to them on a POS siege or something like that.
Besides, even IFF this whole issue results from a bug which is in the game for 4 years, remember the state of the game and the company back then before condemning CCP for being a lousy developer. They had much less employees, were struggling through the starting years of running a MMO, and a much limited customer support. You're expecting (and I think rightfully, since often enough Eve is played not only as an internet-spaceship-game but much more) as much security & correctness in any aspects of the market as you would expect to meet in the real world.
However, this goal is only achieveable with a tremendous amount of software-testing/model-checking/theorem-prooving etc., so even in RL its only done to the most critical aspects, e.g. on control software for planes/trains or in critical banking software. The associated cost for this is huge and surely not viable for a gaming company providing a spaceship-game platform for the community.
Long rant short: Bugs like this will happen, and will happen again - there's no avoiding of them in such a complex software-system as Eve is.
And to answer, why CCP couldn't find out the injection of the produced materials via looking into their logs, well its easy to answer this aswell: They get the data right there, and they get huge amounts of data. However, inferring correctly on what this data actually tells us is a process of datamining. Anyone who ever actually tried to "mine" for some useful data in a huge database might know that finding indicators in such a huge set of possible relevant datas, which point to some missbehaviour has as much to do with luck as it has with most thourough work. You will always find indicators supporting certain assumptions, i.e. "Why is the price for Ferrogel on the level it is", which may point into the wrong direction. And this is, when you begun to actually ask the RIGHT questions for your data. Finding those is a completely different matter.
Long rant short: The logs, they show too much and it may be extremely difficult to find such an abuse in the noise of the other data.
--
There's more to life than making plans - M. Pollack, J. Horty 2000 |
Veroid
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:18:00 -
[1509]
Originally by: KISOGOKU
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 12/12/2008 11:13:26
...
Originally by: Veroid
...
2 years with a financial impact.
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Young Buck
Minmatar
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:19:00 -
[1510]
I'm still waiting for:
1) Names.
2) This investigation to go deeper, I refuse to believe something of this magnitude only rests in the hands of 70 people.
For me this whole thing has cast a black cloud over eve, it needs to be resolved and in full public view, no matter how deep... err high up... the rabbit hole goes. If ccp did this my faith in them would be renewed.
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Hugh Hefner
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:20:00 -
[1511]
Surely all those bans will lead to inflated prices on Veteran Characters, not just T2-modules/ships?
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:20:00 -
[1512]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
2) yes, invention cost is much more important, but there are plenty of people that don't include the BPC cost and the datacores cost as they are "free" (in reality, self produced). Brownse a bit the forum and you will see tons of people saing that for them the datacores are free.
Thx for giving me a great laugh. So datacores are free. Wonder why they sell for so much money. Please give me your free source. Would love to get it.
And you clearly know a lot of people inventing such uncommon stuff, like t2 drones, launchers, ammu, shield amplifier, shield recharger ... so the volume stuff. Guess you don't
Well I do understand any t2 holder, that want to keep thier honey pot, but please stay to real life, even if it is virtual ;)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:22:00 -
[1513]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 12/12/2008 11:24:18
Originally by: Veroid
Edited by: Veroid on 12/12/2008 11:13:02
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Veroid
...
No reason to lie?
He has showed that he cared for the power in game using this exploit, at the same time he has showed he don't care for the other players or game balance.
So now his power has been removed, and you think that he is not bitter and angry and not trying to get back at CCP?
You have a lot of misplaced faith in the fellow humans beings.
no, i actually CAN read what he has written :) and not everyones luck is bound to his standing in the eve universe. there are still people out there which dont care that much. just imagine.
edit: perhaps you forgot that he had petitioned it ? when there was no reaction he made the most fun of it.
He can have written it very well and without showing anger but:
1) the simple fact that he put it on line after being banned for the exploit (so he wasn't urged by his conscience to in the attempt to inform CCP of a exploit) show that he cared. if he hadn't cared he would not have posted;
2) again, the simple fact that he used this exploit show that he cared for the power it gave him;
3) adding the reference to a token bug report in the first days of the POS is pretty laughable. Totally undemonstrable and a pure antithesis of the following use of the exploit.
The English version I have read show a very smooth manipulator but don't show any reason to trust a know cheater. You really think that simply because he was banned someone that cheat and lie become a bastion of honesty and purity?
Originally by: Veroid
edit: perhaps you forgot that he had petitioned it ? when there was no reaction he made the most fun of it.
Again, you take his words as gospel truth. But he admit to be a cheater.
You don't have problems accepting undocumented statements by him?
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Karille
Gallente
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:22:00 -
[1514]
Edited by: Karille on 12/12/2008 11:23:43
Originally by: Mussaschi
Thx for giving me a great laugh. So datacores are free. Wonder why they sell for so much money. Please give me your free source. Would love to get it.
Research agents, they practically hand them out to anyone with the proper standings and skills. Those guys are nuts.
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:28:00 -
[1515]
Edited by: Mussaschi on 12/12/2008 11:29:49
Originally by: Karille
Edited by: Karille on 12/12/2008 11:23:43
Originally by: Mussaschi
Thx for giving me a great laugh. So datacores are free. Wonder why they sell for so much money. Please give me your free source. Would love to get it.
Research agents, they practically hand them out to anyone with the proper standings and skills. Those guys are nuts.
Well I invested around 2 month in skills to work with currently 5 R&D Agents, each giving me around 2 datacores per day (which is nice) though I need between 2 - 128 per invention try (and try really means you could draw 22 blanks in a row (happend already to me)).
Either you don't know what your talking about or this is pure FUD. Either way, please let it be.
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Ironnight
Caldari
x13
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:30:00 -
[1516]
I have seen a MM member say that he knew about this bug a year ago and others say they petitioned it 4 years ago with no response, yet its news to CCP? Maybe they should focus on finding out why they keep finding themselfs in these situations where.
They're like 'oh **** son, its a trap ' *Doomsday* |
Karille
Gallente
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:32:00 -
[1517]
Originally by: Mussaschi
Edited by: Mussaschi on 12/12/2008 11:29:49
Originally by: Karille
Edited by: Karille on 12/12/2008 11:23:43
Originally by: Mussaschi
Thx for giving me a great laugh. So datacores are free. Wonder why they sell for so much money. Please give me your free source. Would love to get it.
Research agents, they practically hand them out to anyone with the proper standings and skills. Those guys are nuts.
Well I invested around 2 month in skills to work with currently 5 R&D Agents, each giving me around 2 datacores per day (which is nice) though I need between 2 - 128 per invention try (and try really means you could draw 22 blanks in a row (happend already to me)).
Either you don't know what your talking about or this is pure FUD. Either way, please let it be.
Well you only appear to be using one character on one account. Think about it harder using 6 characters from 2 accounts.
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Killa Babe'Ruth
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:32:00 -
[1518]
I got a great idea, CCP resets the server and everyone begins at 0 skills and 0 isk
This isn't the first time a serious exploit has come to light and i'm sure it won't be the last. However it does give some clue as to how so many of these big name alliances are where they are today.
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Lord Untrustable
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:33:00 -
[1519]
What large alliance started to crow fast after 2004 november?
What large alliance has been big ever since and had massive capital replacement program?
What large alliance has been able to hold it's grounds ever since?
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:36:00 -
[1520]
Originally by: Ironnight
I have seen a MM member say that he knew about this bug a year ago and others say they petitioned it 4 years ago with no response, yet its news to CCP? Maybe they should focus on finding out why they keep finding themselfs in these situations where.
I would guess CCP can't do anything if a GM just closes/deletes the petition. Now, why would a GM do that? |
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:37:00 -
[1521]
Originally by: Lord Untrustable
What large alliance started to crow fast after 2004 november?
What large alliance has been big ever since and had massive capital replacement program?
What large alliance has been able to hold it's grounds ever since?
What large alliance has encouraged it's members to become GMs? |
Veroid
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:37:00 -
[1522]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
...
is just said that i believe him, not that he must be believed. in the german forum he has written more than the one statement youve read. just my point of view.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:39:00 -
[1523]
Originally by: Mussaschi
Originally by: Venkul Mul
2) yes, invention cost is much more important, but there are plenty of people that don't include the BPC cost and the datacores cost as they are "free" (in reality, self produced). Brownse a bit the forum and you will see tons of people saing that for them the datacores are free.
Thx for giving me a great laugh. So datacores are free. Wonder why they sell for so much money. Please give me your free source. Would love to get it.
And you clearly know a lot of people inventing such uncommon stuff, like t2 drones, launchers, ammu, shield amplifier, shield recharger ... so the volume stuff. Guess you don't
Well I do understand any t2 holder, that want to keep thier honey pot, but please stay to real life, even if it is virtual ;)
Boy, train basic reading comprension at least to 1.
I don't think datacore are free, but you can find a lot of people that think that way, like you can find a lot of people that think that the minerals you mine yourself are "free". For them anything you don't pay isk for is "free".
The sad part is that they base their prices on that assumption.
Invented ammunitions? Sure there are tons of people inventing barrage ammunition as it is the only one with a widespread use and so a market worth inventing.
T2 drones? Hammereads, some of the large drones.
T2 launchers? margin is not stellar, but my trade in T2 launchers (heavy and cruise) go very well.
I suggest you learn how the virtual life work before sentencing on it.
You have never done a spreadsheet on invention, with cost and success rates, to see your return, right?
Sure you don't get a 300-400% return as in the beginning of invention, but on modules I can get a 50% gain with most of them. Do your homework and don't sell in Jita.
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:41:00 -
[1524]
Originally by: Karille
Well you only appear to be using one character on one account. Think about it harder using 6 characters from 2 accounts.
please. So I train every alt for 2 month (at least I can not train more than one alt at a time), mission grind a 2 month to get him the standing to work with the R&D agent and buy some extra accounts, only to still not beeing able to compete?
Hey it is as simple as that. I like this game, even knowing that CCP hands out a lot of extra sugar to the older players, beeing in thier own league, which I will never reach (within the game mechanics).
Ok, I can live with that. Even with CCP trying to paint this stuff. But please don't try to convince me that this is fair. I know this game quite well.
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jimera muroaga
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:48:00 -
[1525]
CCP has a huge task at hand here:
Not only must they have an internal investigation to find out if and who of their employees was involved in this scandal.
They must also sift trough years of transaction data to find the characters involved,.. Characters that left their alliances / corps to create new [alt] corps. Entirely new alt corps created that were involved. etc.
Just banning a few members [read: alts] and disbanding the corps isn't enough. Any alliance that had a corp involved in this scandal should have all their Senior accounts and assets deleted, on an Alliance level, the alliance stripped and disbanded.
Further more... a little search on ebay shows huge amounts of isk being on offer for real money. Needless to say that it is very likely that that isk has been generated by means of this exploit.
Further RL investigations in the persons directly involved in this trade must be done!
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Nidel Shawen
Caldari
Virtual Warriors
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:49:00 -
[1526]
Is there any further official announcements yet?
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:50:00 -
[1527]
Originally by: jimera muroaga
CCP has a huge task at hand here:
Not only must they have an internal investigation to find out if and who of their employees was involved in this scandal.
There's no "if" about it. |
Mussaschi
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:50:00 -
[1528]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Sure you don't get a 300-400% return as in the beginning of invention, but on modules I can get a 50% gain with most of them. Do your homework and don't sell in Jita.
Well, I sold around 800M in invented stuff the last 30d (without beeing bankrupt), but thanks for implying that I don't know what I am doing. I still like inventing stuff, but please tell why my margin of 5 - 25% is fair compared to 30% - 200%. Ps. spreadsheets are out. There is a great programm for inventors giving you the same number much faster
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IMORTALL11
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:51:00 -
[1529]
IN WHICH FORUM A PLAYER WRITE ABOUT EXPLOID???I WONT TO READ IT
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:52:00 -
[1530]
dayumn... i want free iskies too CCP..
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
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