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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.16 08:55:00 -
[2221]
Originally by: Ricardus
In 2003/2004 was when CCP started their fall on credibility when the Art Dev T0rtifrans (or T0rfitrans or T0rtelini, i don't care... T0rtisomething) decided to spawn THE FIRST T5 ITEM, an Mining Laser that was shortly replaced by something waaaaaay less game unbalancing... THE ONLY MINER II BPO!!!
You seem to forget that people get lucky and discover extremely nice things in real life too. Not everyone gets an equal chance. I like that the game sometimes reflects this, whether it was intentional or not.
I'm not all broken up about this or any other incident in the past. In fact i think they're all highly amusing. On top of that, the handling of this incident is pretty damn good. People always say "OMG COVERUP", but here you are getting information and talking about it. They're not banning people for badmouthing CCP, nor are they attempting to hide any of the contrary information that people are posting. They're making a reasonable effort to give you the information that you deserve and keeping their mouths shut about names and alliances, as they should.
Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too. |
KAELA MENSHA
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:26:00 -
[2222]
I actually understand now why so many people, where pushing for GTC's to be bought ingame. Proberly the worst thing ccp did
might look through old posts, see who wanted them
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.16 11:02:00 -
[2223]
Originally by: Glengrant
But you say "saying" doesn't make that true. Care to provide any evidence? No - I'm not talking about rumors, assumptions and conjectures - I do mean some sort of credible evidence.
Only transparency would provide the reverse.
So far CCP haven't provided any evidence themselves (Although to be fair, it would be difficult to know how this could be achieved) - we only have the word of a company that has a vested interest in the perception of the outcome and has been caught in lies previously.
It cuts both ways.
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2008.12.16 14:10:00 -
[2224]
Edited by: Mussaschi on 16/12/2008 14:10:40 Ok, let's destile the latest info from the CCP meeting:
1) The exploit has been active for "at least" 4 month. Nobody stated that it could not be longer, but only that they havn't been able to check, since they need to load old database dumps (which is extremly time consuming)
2) At least the ferogel market was 30% filled with exploid material. The average for this market in jita was 2M pieces per day. That means jita alone the exploiters made 600k*20k =12000M per day with ferogel. So 100 days brought up 1 Trillion in ferogel in jita alone.
3) CCP sees no chance to put the djinni back into the bottle They had been rather adamant in not wanting to seize people indirectly gaining from this. So if the toons have been handily alts, the profit stays with them.
Hm. So what. While I can understand the financial background, of not wanting to waste a lot of expensive human resources on such a virtual issue, the leason we learn is that you can cheat, but that you should not be stuppid with it. Still hoping the exploid is not as widespreded, as I feel to be true.
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Aprineil Buenaventura
Gallente Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.12.16 16:13:00 -
[2225]
Thank you CCP. You still have at least one more pilot who thinks your doing a great job. ---- If you can catch me... You deserve a metal. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.16 16:49:00 -
[2226]
Originally by: Karille
You seem to forget that people get lucky and discover extremely nice things in real life too. Not everyone gets an equal chance. I like that the game sometimes reflects this, whether it was intentional or not.
I'm not all broken up about this or any other incident in the past. In fact i think they're all highly amusing. On top of that, the handling of this incident is pretty damn good. People always say "OMG COVERUP", but here you are getting information and talking about it. They're not banning people for badmouthing CCP, nor are they attempting to hide any of the contrary information that people are posting. They're making a reasonable effort to give you the information that you deserve and keeping their mouths shut about names and alliances, as they should.
People discover things in real life too, but that requires a lot of research and investment. In eve it only requires a friendly Dev to spawn it for you... =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Gunship
Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.16 17:03:00 -
[2227]
EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.16 18:02:00 -
[2228]
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
I think you mean "never".
Life isn't fair too you, know, but then again, it is not purposely unfair, it is just how things are, and people, laws and a lot of other things do try to make it fairer. The fact something is not fair is no excuse to not try to make it fairer. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.12.16 19:46:00 -
[2229]
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
What does fairness have to do with exploits? |
Bilabong Joe
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:28:00 -
[2230]
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
That has to be the dumiest coment ive ever seen, if it wasnt meant to be fair why they doing something to resolve this?? why have game dynamics at all.. Geez why do some people even come to the forums at all????????????????
CCP GIVE US SOME UPDATE'S PLEASE!!!! this is why we pay you......
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:47:00 -
[2231]
Originally by: MMXMMX
Quote: Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.
STIL NO NEWS FROM CCP ?
link? Fetchez la vache !
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Ock Ore
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:15:00 -
[2232]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Rooster Fish
How would you justify handing out a ban to someone for buying t2 items produced via exploit even though there is no way to verify whether they knowingly or unknowingly bought these goods? Is there any reasonable way to go about sorting any of the bull**** from the truth without taking down hundreds of innocent players and eating up months of work hours or can we just move on? Oh no wait, it's better to whine that no one cares even though perhaps less than 20% of the people posting here were probably negatively affected by this in any way, shape or form.
What line from Office Space do those Minutes remind me of?
"THIS IS NOT A MUNDANE DETAIL, MICHAEL!" repackaged as a calm, indifferent summary statement.
And incidentally, I'm not disagreeing with anyone who is blaming CCP for the oversight - I'm just making it clear that there are a lot of us who aren't the least bit surprised by this or the lack of realistic reprisal solutions. To those who really were negatively affected by this, your choice is simple - suck it up and move on in the new economy, or wind down operations here and sharpen your axe for some fantasy mmo or a 1P diversion until something better comes along.
I don't justify banning of anybody. I do not even think it would be crucial to ban the direct cheaters to be honest. Banning is of little consequence here. I justify the elimination of all the fruits of the exploit within the possibilities, meaning:
- All the ISK gained no matter where it ended - All the assets gained no matter where they ended - Fine the correspondent ISK from those who gained assets financed by the exploit if those assets no longer exist (where destroyed) - Disband the alliances that directly benefitted from the exploits, but leave the players alone, save for the measures above.
Go Die in a fire.
You want to take away all of my isk I have made by being an honest t2 producer? I purchased ferrogel on a regular basis, made ships out of it, and sold it to other people. So now you want all of those assets and money that I have spent to just dissapear?
You really have no idea how the market works and how interconnected every single producer/consumer in this game is.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.16 22:30:00 -
[2233]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 16/12/2008 22:32:44
Originally by: Ock Ore
Go Die in a fire.
You want to take away all of my isk I have made by being an honest t2 producer? I purchased ferrogel on a regular basis, made ships out of it, and sold it to other people. So now you want all of those assets and money that I have spent to just dissapear?
You really have no idea how the market works and how interconnected every single producer/consumer in this game is.
What about you try to read what people wrote and UNDERSTAND it before you start burning said people?
If you sold T2 itens or ships for this guys, the itens you sold to them should disappear, the money they paied you should be left alone.
If you bought ferrogel from them the ferrogel you bought should be left alone and the money you payed to them should disappear.
This is the same procedure that is currently used regarding ISK sellers.
As nothing is simple neither in this life, nor in Eve, there are a few exceptions here. If you sold, lets say, 50 jump freighters to these guys for 20 Billion each (500% of markup more less), you are obviouslly laundering their money and are at least a collaborator or, most likely, one of them. In this case your money should be sequestered as well. In a similar way, if you bought 100K ferrogel at 1 ISK a unit from them, the same applies. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Cpt Lollercakes
Warriors of COAD
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:16:00 -
[2234]
Realistically there is no way to fix this, and CCP has probably done as much as they are prepared to do before Wranglers OP, but don't that let that stop another 75 pages.
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Devil Puppet
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Posted - 2008.12.16 23:50:00 -
[2235]
Originally by: Cpt Lollercakes Realistically there is no way to fix this, and CCP has probably done as much as they are prepared to do before Wranglers OP, but don't that let that stop another 75 pages.
I'd have to agree with this statement, I'm glad that someone out there is thinking in realisticially.
Everyone is in such a hurry to get all there intel ASAP, Slow it down folks, no need to rush.... Let it be for now and stop wasting your voice on events that you cannot possibly change. They will give the Official Post after this weekends CSM meeting most likely.
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MartinLaw
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:25:00 -
[2236]
Originally by: Aprineil Buenaventura Thank you CCP. You still have at least one more pilot who thinks your doing a great job.
A lot more than one.
People who are happy tend not to post as much.
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Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:27:00 -
[2237]
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
It's supposed to be within a set of guidelines though of legal mechanics.
Unless of course, you know something we don't... (See? Sometimes some players just don't help themselves build negative reputations.)
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Kautsu Chen
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:44:00 -
[2238]
Originally by: Talidorn Edited by: Talidorn on 15/12/2008 01:43:34 2079 - The year that I will actually have all my skills trained to lvl 5... if ccp keeps adding new skills and content.
Anyway - CCP is doing their CCP thing. No amount of whinage is going to help. I waited for this long to reply because I didn't really feel like sharing my original thoughts. <- I knew once I took a deep breath and relaxed my feelings would change.
Does it suck? Sure... 70 of XXXXXXXX accounts can FUBAR the whole of the economy. But hey... you get to be on with how many thousand players at the same time?
I've had 50 things that made me want to quit EvE... the longest I've stayed away was 6 months. Oh the pain of withdrawls!
I'll still be here when the next major exploit, nerf, CCP removal of features, etc. happens. If you wont... Can I have your stuff?
Talidorn
Ah.. I have wondered how long it wuold take one of your kind to mess with this thread. Your kind are *very* constructive. You always say "Do now whine, but give all of your stuff to me". Your kind are the best friends of pirates and griefers. How many billions you have gained from this exploit?
The Scope? You do not have guts to join corp with real podcombatants? Piracy is quite safe when nobody can wardec you and only a short window of time of vulnerability after each attack...
Yours Kautsu Chen
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.17 02:11:00 -
[2239]
Originally by: Cpt Lollercakes Realistically there is no way to fix this, and CCP has probably done as much as they are prepared to do before Wranglers OP, but don't that let that stop another 75 pages.
There is, it just requires competence and a fair amount of effort. Unfortunatelly CCP has proven to be lacking of the first trait, and unwilling to afford the second. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Mr morris
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.17 02:26:00 -
[2240]
Dear CCP- How many other times have you banned players for a simple exploit without warning? Why did you suddenly wake up and ban 70+ accts. for one common exploit. After identifying the exploit it seems like you reacted in an unreasonably harsh manner. A warning shot over the bow of the offenders ships would have worked just as well. Going public with a statement that CCP is now aware of the issue & has now officially deemed it an exploit with any future offenders facing a ban as inevitable consequence would have been a more reasonable action. Slap people's hand for being smart/lucky, don't cut their heads off. Mr Morris is sold in game on boyout offer. |
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2008.12.17 02:32:00 -
[2241]
Originally by: Mr morris Dear CCP- How many other times have you banned players for a simple exploit without warning? Why did you suddenly wake up and ban 70+ accts. for one common exploit. After identifying the exploit it seems like you reacted in an unreasonably harsh manner.
When you realise that those 70 accounts were just the tip of the iceberg, then you will see that CCP, far from acting harshly, have been incredibly lenient.
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Ho HsienKo
CBC Interstellar
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Posted - 2008.12.17 03:31:00 -
[2242]
Originally by: Mr morris LET THEM EAT CAKE!!
The Cake is a LIE!!
As far as I am concered this is a good start to the mass account bannings that the community deserve over this fiasco.
AND intenal affairs best be getting out its microscope to see if there is any kind of link or possibility of one to any staffers.
Lets see what "Revelations" the weekend brings shall we.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:00:00 -
[2243]
Hello, i've just read through all the 75 pages and lost 0,0325% of my braincells. I want em back, now.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:07:00 -
[2244]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Hello, i've just read through all the 75 pages and lost 0,0325% of my braincells. I want em back, now.
Sorry, but you can't lose a fraction of a brain cell, the single one you had before is still there, you just have to look for it harder. Now move along. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
RabbidFerret
Prophets Of a Damned Universe Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:09:00 -
[2245]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Sorry, but you can't lose a fraction of a brain cell, the single one you had before is still there, you just have to look for it harder. Now move along.
ha haha ha, that was witty! Did anyone see what the witty man did there? so witty. RabbidFerret Pod-U
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:19:00 -
[2246]
Originally by: RabbidFerret
ha haha ha, that was witty! Did anyone see what the witty man did there? so witty.
See, Yakia TovilToba? You are not that bad yet, there is still a long way to go. So don't worry. There are several threads like this ahead before you get this bad.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
mythpilot
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Posted - 2008.12.17 05:12:00 -
[2247]
hmmm, interesting letter i found while shearch the series of tubes.
Here
not accusing, think what you want to think...
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sliver 0xD
exiles. The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2008.12.17 08:08:00 -
[2248]
Edited by: sliver 0xD on 17/12/2008 08:09:02
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
What does fairness have to do with exploits?
Some bugs make you lose a stuff, other bugs make you rich.
ccp punishes the one who becomes rich, but the one that becomes poor they leave to die.
iam against the mass ban. these were the game mechanics, without ccp telling us otherwhise there legal to use. that ccp made a f*ckup doesnt mean they can ban a load of players and take a load of isk back.
--- Somebody needs a hug! |
Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.12.17 08:51:00 -
[2249]
Originally by: sliver 0xD ccp punishes the one who becomes rich, but the one that becomes poor they leave to die.
Huh?
Quote: these were the game mechanics, without ccp telling us otherwhise there legal to use.
Don't take this personally, but if you really believe that, I think this game should have a minimum-IQ requirement.
I would be willing to argue whether or not something like POS bowling should be an exploit or not, but in cases like this where things spawn without explanation out of thin nothing, there can be no question that it is not an intended game mechanic.
If anyone really thought it was supposed to work this way, I suggest immediate guardianship for that person. |
Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.17 09:09:00 -
[2250]
Originally by: sliver 0xD Edited by: sliver 0xD on 17/12/2008 08:09:02
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Originally by: Gunship EvE was newer fair and newer will be...
What does fairness have to do with exploits?
Some bugs make you lose a stuff, other bugs make you rich.
ccp punishes the one who becomes rich, but the one that becomes poor they leave to die.
iam against the mass ban. these were the game mechanics, without ccp telling us otherwhise there legal to use. that ccp made a f*ckup doesnt mean they can ban a load of players and take a load of isk back.
There is no way anyone with a brain functional enough to online a starbase would not have known the exploit was wrong.
Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too. |
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