Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 95 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:36:00 -
[2281]
Originally by: Squirrrel And after reading the minutes again, I still find it off that EyjoG was the CCP employee to respond to most of the CSM questions, even the non-economic ones...
It is weird indeed. What are you suspecting? =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 17:47:00 -
[2282]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
This while they let SirMolle post real life information about people in this forum without consequences. Nice isn't it?
Not that you are really interested in facts that upset your little deluded conspiracy, but Sir Molle did indeed suffer consequences for breaking the forum rules, exactly in line with the stated forum policies.
You aren't upset that he recieved special treatment, but rather that he didn't.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:00:00 -
[2283]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/12/2008 18:05:35
Originally by: Avon
Not that you are really interested in facts that upset your little deluded conspiracy, but Sir Molle did indeed suffer consequences for breaking the forum rules, exactly in line with the stated forum policies.
You aren't upset that he recieved special treatment, but rather that he didn't.
He posted again in that same thread later, so I highly doubt it.
Edit: Oh and I just found soomething interesting in the EULA:
"7. MISCELLANEOUS
An immediate permanent ban of an account will result if a player: (snip) b. Divulges private and/or personal information about another subscriber or an official EVE Online representative through the EVE Online client or web site."
SirMolle is still playing, isn't he? =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:34:00 -
[2284]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/12/2008 18:05:35
Originally by: Avon
Not that you are really interested in facts that upset your little deluded conspiracy, but Sir Molle did indeed suffer consequences for breaking the forum rules, exactly in line with the stated forum policies.
You aren't upset that he recieved special treatment, but rather that he didn't.
He posted again in that same thread later, so I highly doubt it.
Edit: Oh and I just found soomething interesting in the EULA:
"7. MISCELLANEOUS
An immediate permanent ban of an account will result if a player: (snip) b. Divulges private and/or personal information about another subscriber or an official EVE Online representative through the EVE Online client or web site."
SirMolle is still playing, isn't he?
Would you like to see how that read at the time?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 18:59:00 -
[2285]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
He posted again in that same thread later, so I highly doubt it.
Edit: Oh and I just found soomething interesting in the EULA:
"7. MISCELLANEOUS
An immediate permanent ban of an account will result if a player: (snip) b. Divulges private and/or personal information about another subscriber or an official EVE Online representative through the EVE Online client or web site."
SirMolle is still playing, isn't he?
Please give thread link to the thread where this happened.
thx
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 19:07:00 -
[2286]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Please give thread link to the thread where this happened.
thx
A good conspiracy is proved by the absense of facts.
THEY COVERED IT UP, MAN!
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Kei Gravatid
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:25:00 -
[2287]
Originally by: Zeul LOL...CCP you are noobs
That is being charitable. An exploit like this in Empire would never have gone on this long. It's their uneven approach to these issues that annoys me.
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:35:00 -
[2288]
News item has been updated
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:36:00 -
[2289]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Please give thread link to the thread where this happened.
thx
A good conspiracy is proved by the absense of facts.
THEY COVERED IT UP, MAN!
Sir Molle posted real life information about K. This information being: name, address, his company phone number, and other personal stuff. Not only that but he asked people to call his company and complain about him as well...
Just to makes things more fun. Are you denying this? =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Sonva Lat
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:40:00 -
[2290]
you kids should get a room or take your politic *****fight to caod or something so the rest of us can talk about the issue at hand |
|
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:43:00 -
[2291]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/12/2008 21:45:31
Originally by: Avon News item has been updated
The only new information is that the bug is indeed possible since 2004.
It seems that the disgruntled banned guy was not lying after all. Everything he posted has been confirmed except for the petition which may yet appear...
Waiting for the CCP fanboys' answers. Those same guys who tried to discret his statements.
Originally by: Sonva Lat you kids should get a room or take your politic *****fight to caod or something so the rest of us can talk about the issue at hand
We are discussing about CCP transparency and policies. It is very much on topic here, thank you. Who are you, btw? Avon's alt? If so tell him I am waiting for his answer, please. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:46:00 -
[2292]
Guys, come on: BoB Evil, No they are Not, yes they ARE. No Its Goons, No it was not Goons it was AAA.Whatever. It does not matter at this moment in this thread.
What matters is that we keep encouraging CCP and CSM to provide more information as it becomes available, and as much information as possible.
Hell, I would go as far as to tell CCP to give amnesty to the small fry who were involved in it, if they could provide information on the big guys, on the leaders of the operation. So long as it is not a hearsay, and can be backed up with the logs, and by subsequent investigation.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
|
Captain Thunk
Captain Morgan Society
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:49:00 -
[2293]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Avon News item has been updated
The only new information is that the bug is indeed possible since 2004.
It seems that the disgruntled banned guy was not lying after all. Everything he posted has been confirmed except for the petition which may yet appear...
Waiting for the CCP fanboys' answers. Those same guys who tried to discret his statements.
Nevertheless it does indeed seem to be a very small minority of people who knew about it and were running many accounts each for free of the ill gotten gains. The disgruntled banned guy has exagerated the scale and has tried to implicate major alliances when infact there is no link (as yet) that ties any of them to it. I'm sure it'll take time to complete the investigation, but CCP do seem to be intent on being very thorough.
The update of course will do nothing to appease those that simply want a massive conspiracy and will accept nothing less.
Captain Thunk
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:50:00 -
[2294]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
What matters is that we keep encouraging CCP and CSM to provide more information as it becomes available, and as much information as possible.
No, what matters is that CCP makes sure the bug is fixed, those who expoited it are correctly punished, and that the damage that it may have caused is minimised.
Giving out information is not important, simply because people will pick and choose what they believe, and twist or ignore that which does not fit in to their own view on the matter.
Feeding the mob is a bad idea.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:53:00 -
[2295]
The last update (19th Dec) was quite good.
Good info there. Thanks about that.
|
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 21:56:00 -
[2296]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jinx Barker
What matters is that we keep encouraging CCP and CSM to provide more information as it becomes available, and as much information as possible.
No, what matters is that CCP makes sure the bug is fixed, those who expoited it are correctly punished, and that the damage that it may have caused is minimised.
Giving out information is not important, simply because people will pick and choose what they believe, and twist or ignore that which does not fit in to their own view on the matter.
Feeding the mob is a bad idea.
Secrecy breeds speculation. Most of the mob are reasonable, in my humble opinion. Those who want to make something of nothing always do so anyway. Secrets or no secrets. Does not mean that everything should be kept secret. Truth is a better option, even if unpleasant. If no proper information is given then even more people will believe all sorts of rumors and it might be damaging to EVE in the long run.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
|
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:00:00 -
[2297]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 19/12/2008 21:59:52 For those who did not see it, and thank you to the guy above Gnulpie, we have an update from CCP for the 19th.
Originally by: CCP Exploit Update for the 19th of December
Update: (12/19/2008)
Here is an update on the investigation into the Starbase reactor exploit that we are currently conducting:
1. CCP has confirmed that this bug has been exploitable since February 2007. Changes to the Starbases code from launch until February 2007 are minimal and very unlikely to have caused the bug. So at this point we are working on the assumption that this bug has been exploitable since the release of player owned structures on November 24th, 2004. We will therefore focus solely on looking at Starbases data in order to determine who has been using this exploit, and for how long.
2. CCP has been able to restore older databases that show us that the bug has been exploited since at least January this year, but at a lower scale than in the last few months. The players involved then were the same ones that we found and banned recently. We are now working on restoring data from 2006 which will take us several days. It is uncertain if we will be able to have answers on that before holiday vacations.
3. CCP has been able to access data from our old petition system. We have been unable to confirm that a petition was filed in 2004, 2005 or 2006 pointing out this bug with Starbases. We urge anyone with information on who and when a petition on this issue was filed to contact us directly through the petition system under the Exploit Category. Alternatively, an email sent to [email protected] with details on the matter would be much appreciated.
4. The full investigation will take several weeks. CCP will be in direct contact with the CSM to discuss this issue and we will provide information to the community as it becomes available.
5. We have done a thorough investigation on our staff members and CSM members and found no links to this exploit.
6. Our actions so far have included the eradication of 178 starbases that were exploiting this issue. Some had multiple reactors running in the bugged state. We have also banned all those we have found directly involved and all accounts we have found to be connected to those players. The investigation is still under way and will take a while to conclude.
We will continue to work hard to understand the overall impact of this exploit and how widespread it was. We ask for your patience until more information becomes available....
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
|
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:01:00 -
[2298]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Secrecy breeds speculation. Most of the mob are reasonable, in my humble opinion. Those who want to make something of nothing always do so anyway. Secrets or no secrets. Does not mean that everything should be kept secret. Truth is a better option, even if unpleasant. If no proper information is given then even more people will believe all sorts of rumors and it might be damaging to EVE in the long run.
I'm sure people get banned for stuff every day. You never hear about them. Where is the speculation?
The CCP response to all of this should have been: "There was a bug which has now been corrected, and those who exploited it were banned. We continue to investigate and anyone else who is discovered to have exploited it will also be banned.", and then said nothing more.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:05:00 -
[2299]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Guys, come on: BoB Evil, No they are Not, yes they ARE. No Its Goons, No it was not Goons it was AAA.Whatever. It does not matter at this moment in this thread.
What matters is that we keep encouraging CCP and CSM to provide more information as it becomes available, and as much information as possible.
Hell, I would go as far as to tell CCP to give amnesty to the small fry who were involved in it, if they could provide information on the big guys, on the leaders of the operation. So long as it is not a hearsay, and can be backed up with the logs, and by subsequent investigation.
It matters as it shows how CCP policies work and what is wrong about them. This occasion was a clear example of petty revenge against K., priviledged treatment of Sir Molle and total lack of transparency until the truth was mauled into their faces and they couldn't deny it anymore.
If anything this occasion proved that the only way to make sure the big fishes go down is to uncover things ourselves and make sure they are suficiently detailed and disseminated in the Internet so no cover story is possible. Oh and prepare ourselves to be banned as consequence of this. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:06:00 -
[2300]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Avon News item has been updated
It seems that the disgruntled banned guy was not lying after all. Everything he posted has been confirmed except for the petition which may yet appear...
Etho, it seems that you are complaining about something. Of course such a bug shouldn't have happened but so what? Thing is, it happened. And? Should we now shot ourselves and die? Life goes on man! No one is without flaws and the real question is how to deal with the flaws.
What are you now complaining about? That CCP investigated after CCP got aware of the bug? Or do you complain that CCP keeps confirming that there was a bug and that it was exploited?
What should they do instead? Shutting down Eve, telling the players to go home and just close CCP?
The first update (the csm minutes) didn't look that promising and I posted some good deal of criticism also, but now I think that things are on the right track. They are telling us what they are doing, what they have done and what the results are so far and what they do not know yet.
Again, if you are not happy, tell us what they should do instead and what could do better. And no, full external auditing is complete nonsense and that forensic expert stuff is also just idiotic. What are the REALSITIC options they have? I think they are doing the best they can right now. But if you know better, I am all ears.
|
|
Redd Sectoray
Grand Neurotic Usurping Retaliation Force
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:10:00 -
[2301]
To CCP: Thanks for the update. Seems the investigation is coming along nicely, thanks for keeping us posted. On a sidenote, I suggest selling tin foil hats with an EVE logo in the store. Judging by some of the posts in this thread: you'll make a fortune!
And though he's not the only one, hats off for Glengrant for taking the time and effort to be a voice of reason in the madhouse that is this forum thread. I'm glad to see there's still people around that know the difference between apples and oranges, facts and speculation and the real world and a soap opera.
|
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Strength in Numbers.
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:13:00 -
[2302]
In light of the new update, i'd like to thank CCP for continuing the investigation and updating the players.
Thank you CCP == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
|
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:23:00 -
[2303]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 19/12/2008 22:24:56
Originally by: Gnulpie
Etho, it seems that you are complaining about something. Of course such a bug shouldn't have happened but so what? Thing is, it happened. And? Should we now shot ourselves and die? Life goes on man! No one is without flaws and the real question is how to deal with the flaws.
What are you now complaining about? That CCP investigated after CCP got aware of the bug? Or do you complain that CCP keeps confirming that there was a bug and that it was exploited?
What should they do instead? Shutting down Eve, telling the players to go home and just close CCP?
Which matter is that the bug that has been neglected by 4 years must be fixed as well as its consequences. Given the history of inaction by ccp, the only way to know for sure is if we have enough information to judge if the fixes are addressing what is importantant, meaning: the money, which by now must be in the hands of brand new accounts controlled by the same guys who were banned or alliances that used those corps as alt corps.
As it is the punishement was irrelevant, and if you can't realize it you need to think more about it, really.
Quote:
The first update (the csm minutes) didn't look that promising and I posted some good deal of criticism also, but now I think that things are on the right track. They are telling us what they are doing, what they have done and what the results are so far and what they do not know yet.
What exactly is the new information you extract from this post?
Don't botter, I will tell you: In the CSM meeting they had already confirmed that the bug existed since Feb 2007, in this post they just onfirmed that there were no modifications that could likely produce this bug between 2004 and 2007. So the only thing good about this post or new at all is that now we know for sure the guy who posted in SHC did not lie.
After almost a week they still havenothing new, that alone shows the interest...
Quote:
Again, if you are not happy, tell us what they should do instead and what could do better. And no, full external auditing is complete nonsense and that forensic expert stuff is also just idiotic. What are the REALSITIC options they have? I think they are doing the best they can right now. But if you know better, I am all ears.
Ok, here goes:
1) disclose the name of the banned chars 2) disclose the data about the ammounts of advanced materials sold, ISK, etc they have and the method they used to find it. 3) disclose any account that received huge amounts of assets or ISK from these accounts without giving a similar amount of resources in exchange 4) go back to 3 until all cheating accounts are linked 5) destroy those assets
I couldn't care less about bans. But the assets must be destroyed, and the only way of knowing they really were is by disclosing this data above.
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
breiti
Caldari The Rising Stars Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:27:00 -
[2304]
well done, thanks and go on CCP; i think everything has been said now.
only the "final numbers" of accounts/player/corps that will be banned would be interesting. (well, for me )
cheers
|
Rata Nrnima
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:35:00 -
[2305]
Originally by: Princess Jodi CCP, if this was just a bug then I understand how it was not found. But look at the code closely, please.... you just might find something that shouldn't be there.
Started playing eve May this year. I played for months, then they put a major patch in. Some things changed and I put in a petition. Discovered I was playing a game no one else had access to. Being a Noob, I didn't belong to a corp or alliance, didn't know the game I was playing was different from the one everyone else was playing. To make an incredibly long story short, CCP GMC was provided screen shots,databases, etc., and to this day they insist the game we were playing did not and does not exist. They removed "non-existent" items from my hangar; got all the details from me; had eye-witness account from one of their "players" befriending me in-game and actually playing that game with me. I didn't know the rats didn't talk to everyone, etc., announce when enemies entered the system, etc. I know now, so I played for 5 months this game.
It was a game code hidden in EVE that I stumbled upon and won! and they took it from me. They know one of theirs is cheating for someone. I won a game I wasn't suppose to. They took it from me. They deny to this day that game exists.
CCP will never oust the culprits because the culprit is CCP. That game was entirely too extensive for it not to have been programmed. Told me I was finding a series of plexes, and explorations that never appeared in my tabs. In other words, they lied and when the lie didn't work they denied, then closed their eyes and blamed it on my noobiness.
I have pages and pages of communications between my self and CCP petition personnel. They insist, "if the people who wrote the program say that game does not exist, it doesn't. They would know". If they didn't investigate that - they won't investigate this. People who have viewed my documentation agree - THIS WAS FOR SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME ! ! ! It is not an exploit, not a bug. It is programed cheating.
|
Brigitte Helm
Minmatar Flying Fox Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:40:00 -
[2306]
Edited by: Brigitte Helm on 19/12/2008 22:39:51
Originally by: breiti well done, thanks and go on CCP; i think everything has been said now.
only the "final numbers" of accounts/player/corps that will be banned would be interesting. (well, for me )
cheers
I agree with the above and other true players that understand no game is ever bug free. CCP could have banned and said nothing, in which case whiners moan. They could have release the names of all, in which case whines moan. They have done what needs to be done. Reported. Banned. Investigated. Updated. Continue to Investigate. We can't ask for more. Professional response.
Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev.
Make Eve fun.... |
Waxau
Mortis Angelus The Church.
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 22:47:00 -
[2307]
Very well handled imo. When the issue was raised, from that moment on, there would always be a negative side. And CCP have actually found one of the best (if not the best) ways to handle the situation. So congrats on a successful achievement. Tbh, i actually believe this exploit was for the best. Its given me a huge confidence boost in CCP. Granted, it relied on a 'concerned player', but then again....Its MMO for both the players and GM/Devs alike :)
*Tips hat
|
elric gallach
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:01:00 -
[2308]
Originally by: Jinx Barker Guys, come on: BoB Evil, No they are Not, yes they ARE. No Its Goons, No it was not Goons it was AAA.Whatever. It does not matter at this moment in this thread. ---------------------------------------------------------- Well yes It does, to take the blame/stigma of the innocent, ---------------------------------------------------------- What matters is that we keep encouraging CCP and CSM to provide more information as it becomes available, and as much information as possible. ---------------------------------------------------------- yes that much is true, and maybe find a bigger role for the CSM ---------------------------------------------------------- Hell, I would go as far as to tell CCP to give amnesty to the small fry who were involved in it, if they could provide information on the big guys, on the leaders of the operation. So long as it is not a hearsay, and can be backed up with the logs, and by subsequent investigation.
---------------------------------------------------------- might be better to take a different stance with all involved IE remove corp/alliances, strip all assets, and remove skill points. Let them start again in npc corps. just an idea
|
wizechatmgr
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:03:00 -
[2309]
I must say, a little more transparency would be nice. That said, this is a company, they host/update/maintain this game to make a profit.
Code exploits happen all the time in projects, but lets face it guys, the "usual" routine is to fix the issue, release press about it, and go on with life.
When is this "fix" or was this "fix" deployed?
Keep in mind guys, not everyone who exploited this likely meant to. Some may have accidentally done so, etc.
As far as conspiracy theories go, I too agree the tinfoil hats should be sold in the store.
|
CHoKeD
Minmatar Cloak and Daggers Ocularis Inferno
|
Posted - 2008.12.19 23:08:00 -
[2310]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Please give thread link to the thread where this happened.
thx
A good conspiracy is proved by the absense of facts.
THEY COVERED IT UP, MAN!
Sir Molle posted real life information about K. This information being: name, address, his company phone number, and other personal stuff. Not only that but he asked people to call his company and complain about him as well...
Just to makes things more fun. Are you denying this?
Wasnt K already banned meaning he was not a subscriber?
----------------------- I fly for my tribe. I die with my tribe. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 .. 95 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |