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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.21 19:58:00 -
[2581]
Edited by: Glengrant on 21/12/2008 20:00:17 Dear Etho,
I do ignore the forums for weeks - sometimes months at a time. Need to recharge to process all the c**p one has to wade through here.
You claim this affair is game-breaking. How so?
Let's just assume for a minute that EVE would prove beyond your level of doubt that their current findings are correct.
Then widespread abuse has only been going on for some weeks or so. Meaning that prices have only been really affected for that same period. Meaning that prices will just go back to the level of 2-3 months ago (everything else being equal).
Big deal. A bit higher than now - but still *way* lower than pre-invention.
If patches like invention with their massively market affecting changes don't danage the game - how could this affair be different.
The fact is that prices are determined by a number of variables. Alchemy for example will also affect them.
And the exact prices of T2 are not very relevant to the overall game as there is no one correct price.
That's why even if your worst assumptions are true and CCP covers up widespread abuse over a much longer time it wouldn't really matter much to the market economy. Either post-invention prices are roughly where CCP wanted them by design - the they will just tune some other variables to make than happen (alchemy values, moon frequency/output, whatever). Or they are fine with higher T2 prices - also OK as then more pvp would be done with T1 again and T2 would simply be rarer. Nothing inherently wrong with that either.
So - yes - the cheats affected the market - but at the same time there was 0 damage to the market. We don't want cheats profiting from this - so we want them and their assets gone (that's where we agree - right?) - but beyond that there is not a problem.
OK - an alliance or 2 *might* have gained a better position than they otherwise would - but that will quickly change now anyway if extra money was the only reason they got ahead.
Your silly class action suit OTOH would be damaging the game (any success would raise costs and therefore prices - or reduce services). Though I'm not too worried as I don't believe for a second that this is going to happen or go anywhere.
Why I bother complaining about (IMHO unreasonable) complainers? Fair question. Not entirely rational on my part I admit. Sometimes I just fail to shut up. ;-) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.21 20:21:00 -
[2582]
Originally by: Glengrant [ Dear Etho,
I do ignore the forums for weeks - sometimes months at a time. Need to recharge to process all the c**p one has to wade through here.
You could take one of such breaks now, you won't be missed
Quote:
You claim this affair is game-breaking. How so?
Let's just assume for a minute that EVE would prove beyond your level of doubt that their current findings are correct.
Then widespread abuse has only been going on for some weeks or so. Meaning that prices have only been really affected for that same period. Meaning that prices will just go back to the level of 2-3 months ago (everything else being equal).
Big deal. A bit higher than now - but still *way* lower than pre-invention.
If patches like invention with their massively market affecting changes don't danage the game - how could this affair be different.
The fact is that prices are determined by a number of variables. Alchemy for example will also affect them.
And the exact prices of T2 are not very relevant to the overall game as there is no one correct price.
You are talking nonsense. Assuming that the information disclosed by CCP is correct, the exploit hit the market as direct selling of advanced material for 6 months now (since June/July). Before that it was in use but the results were not deployed in the market as advanced materials.
The amount of ISK absorbed from the economy , just in the last 6 months was 3 trillion ISK, what generates recession. This can be felt if you are trying to sell products. Eve market has been turning into a deflationary market.
Now the fun part. Before those 6 months, it has been pointed by CCP that the materials were used for internal production. I find highly unlikely that those 178 towers popped all of a sudden 6 months ago. So we can safely assume that a reasonable part of them were in operation before, and the numbers increased steadily until they reached the 178 mark at which point they were noticed and dealt with.
So we have an extended period of time where an outrageous amount of T2 materials were produced and used directly to produce T2, which was dumped in the market, trashing the T2 market. This massive quantity of T2 itens, couldn't be possibily absorbed, so if it is not destroyed, it will keep hindering the market.
Furthermore, if the ISK gathered by these guys managed to passed ahead and was not completely destroyed, it will stay there, financing the same alliances, and organizations that profitted from the exploit.
And lets not even talk about the people who received information in advance from the cheaters, that they would be banned and bought ferrogel cheap 3 DAYS BEFORE the event, profitting several hundred billions in the proccess...
Quote: That's why even if your worst assumptions are true and CCP covers up widespread abuse over a much longer time it wouldn't really matter much to the market economy. Either post-invention prices are roughly where CCP wanted them by design - the they will just tune some other variables to make than happen (alchemy values, moon frequency/output, whatever). Or they are fine with higher T2 prices - also OK as then more pvp would be done with T1 again and T2 would simply be rarer. Nothing inherently wrong with that either.
T2 prices are only a small part of the problem, as I explained above. Remaining resources, be it ISK or materials can be used to further distort the game. So no "people" won't start using T1. Non cheaters would mostly start using T1, cheater's and associates would happily continue using T2... =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.21 20:27:00 -
[2583]
Originally by: Glengrant So - yes - the cheats affected the market - but at the same time there was 0 damage to the market. We don't want cheats profiting from this - so we want them and their assets gone (that's where we agree - right?) - but beyond that there is not a problem.
People really shouldn't talk about which they have no clue. The assumption "0 damage to the market" is so stupid it is unreal. Reality check 3 trillion ISK were drained from the market and destroyed. Many T2 producers bankrupted because of unfair competition. The damage was extensive. And even CCP in its timid figures define it as profound and far reaching.
Quote:
OK - an alliance or 2 *might* have gained a better position than they otherwise would - but that will quickly change now anyway if extra money was the only reason they got ahead.
No it won't. There is a thing called positive feedback. When you are on the top it is easier to stay on the top. By wining you gather resources, people and sovereighty. Any alliance that benefitted from this will most likely continue benefitting from the consequences.
Quote:
Why I bother complaining about (IMHO unreasonable) complainers? Fair question. Not entirely rational on my part I admit. Sometimes I just fail to shut up. ;-)
At least we agree in something. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Slinkus Gallentus
Gallente Infinite Order
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Posted - 2008.12.21 21:39:00 -
[2584]
Edited by: Slinkus Gallentus on 21/12/2008 21:39:53 I've never read so much crap in my life.
At least not since Dan Browne...
cheers
"Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up" |
Yumikora
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Posted - 2008.12.21 21:41:00 -
[2585]
You are a fun, and predictable, person, Etho.
Originally by: Etho Demerzel I will provide what is asked of me.
Quite, although maybe not really as you imagined it. You just proved my points about your posting style, which is actually more than I asked for. Now I don't need to go on with that part, which serves the thread. Thank you.
Originally by: Etho Demerzel If you post flames like this you will receive flames back. The choice is yours.
Incorrect, again. The choice was yours and you've made it.
It's really rather hilarious. I actually support your on-topic cause in this thread, and you apparently persist in failing to see this?
Flame away, all you want. I don't care about that. I'm just trying to help you optimize your message, you see. Well, apparently you don't see it. Yet. Let's try once more.
See, you'll need a great deal of luck getting your points heard by CCP, as long as you continue in your current style. I am still hopeful that you may yet realize that you need to change it, since (as I said) I do agree with you on the main issues vis-a-vis CCP, and I do care about those.
Again, so you simply cannot miss it: - I don't care about you flaming me. - I do care about your style detracting from your message. - I want your message to get through to CCP, and others.
So, try to ease up on the defensive, lighten up, take some criticism, and use it. Tune and get your message through. I'm certain you can do it if you just take a deep breath and think before you post, rather than endulge yourself in pointless forum-PvP.
So, once more: Get back to the topic? |
Pure Manergy
Gallente The Sobani
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Posted - 2008.12.21 21:45:00 -
[2586]
Etho Demerzel, whilst the multiple posts in a row on your opinions of peoples posts/opinions/topics are... long, nobody really cares what you have to say. You apparently have a minority complex and the need for constant attention (kind of like a kid with Downs Syndrome).
In short: Stuff it. ---------------------------------------------- This is the way the world ends; This is the way the world ends; This is the way the world ends; Not with a bang, but a whimper. ~T.S. Eliot. |
Jalsorpa
Caldari Infestation.
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Posted - 2008.12.21 22:10:00 -
[2587]
LULZ!!! Well done etho m8 lol I'm enjoying the flame fest Keep up the good work!!!!
(Btw i agree with everything etho said just cos it annoys so many ppl lol) http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0704/tajidan_sig_arnold%283%29.jpg[/img]pa_sig.jpg |
Jonnten Nichs
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Posted - 2008.12.21 22:47:00 -
[2588]
Originally by: Kva Plexcha Hmm I applied a filter to this 85 page thread - took all the Etho posts out and its only 12 pages long!
<scrambles to look for how to do this> |
Jonnten Nichs
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Posted - 2008.12.21 22:54:00 -
[2589]
Edited by: Jonnten Nichs on 21/12/2008 22:55:53 Edited by: Jonnten Nichs on 21/12/2008 22:55:13
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Originally by: Glengrant [ Dear Etho,
I do ignore the forums for weeks - sometimes months at a time. Need to recharge to process all the c**p one has to wade through here.
You could take one of such breaks now, you won't be missed
Please, for the sake of the rest us, take up your own offer. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.21 23:08:00 -
[2590]
Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 21/12/2008 23:11:52
Originally by: Yumikora You are a fun, and predictable, person, Etho.
So are you. It was very predictable that you would still make a post talking about me, you know...
Quote:
Quite, although maybe not really as you imagined it. You just proved my points about your posting style, which is actually more than I asked for. Now I don't need to go on with that part, which serves the thread. Thank you.
You could not have posted it at all if you don't want to go on with that part. Still you did, which means you are either stupid, which I highly doubt, or you do want to go on with this.
Quote:
Incorrect, again. The choice was yours and you've made it.
As you did now.
Quote:
It's really rather hilarious. I actually support your on-topic cause in this thread, and you apparently persist in failing to see this?
If you do you are doing yourself a disservice by insisting in discussing offtopic issues, although I am really flattered by your fixation in me.
Quote:
Flame away, all you want. I don't care about that. I'm just trying to help you optimize your message, you see. Well, apparently you don't see it. Yet. Let's try once more.
Oh you do care, so much you care that you can't let it go...
Quote:
See, you'll need a great deal of luck getting your points heard by CCP, as long as you continue in your current style. I am still hopeful that you may yet realize that you need to change it, since (as I said) I do agree with you on the main issues vis-a-vis CCP, and I do care about those.
And you know that because... Oh right, you are CCP! Or maybe on the top of arrogance you know what I should say, right?
Quote:
Again, so you simply cannot miss it: - I don't care about you flaming me.
Yes you do. Actually you want it.
Quote:
- I do care about your style detracting from your message. - I want your message to get through to CCP, and others.
No you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't insist on discussing about me instead of the topic.
Quote:
So, try to ease up on the defensive, lighten up, take some criticism, and use it. Tune and get your message through. I'm certain you can do it if you just take a deep breath and think before you post, rather than endulge yourself in pointless forum-PvP.
So, once more: Get back to the topic?
As I told you, either way does not bother me. I will keep discussing about the topic and answering posts like yours all the same. If you want me to stay on topic just stay on topic yourself...
=====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.21 23:10:00 -
[2591]
Originally by: Jonnten Nichs
Please, for the sake of the rest us, take up your own offer.
Sorry, it seems you are out of luck. It won't happen... =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Yumikora
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Posted - 2008.12.22 00:01:00 -
[2592]
Edited by: Yumikora on 22/12/2008 00:01:27
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 21/12/2008 23:11:52 *stuff*
Right. I had another long reply here, ready to submit it.
But then I realized that this won't end, will it? We'll just continue hacking away at each other until hell freezes over or the thread is locked, whichever comes first. Neither of us will convince the other of being right or wrong.
So, instead, I'll take you up on your last paragraph
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
As I told you, either way does not bother me. I will keep discussing about the topic and answering posts like yours all the same. If you want me to stay on topic just stay on topic yourself...
and unilaterally stop posting to this sub-thread, right now, on one condition: That you manage to produce enough restraint as to not respond to this (hopefully, final) post of mine.
So, if you agree, don't respond, and let the thread return to its original topic. |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.22 00:21:00 -
[2593]
Edited by: Glengrant on 22/12/2008 00:24:42
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
You could take one of such breaks now, you won't be missed
Wish granted. ;-)
<poof> --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.22 01:42:00 -
[2594]
Originally by: Elisriel There is no code on earth that has been written that has been flawless and fool proof. Every game since the days of DOS has had bugs or exploits. Exploits aren't cheats like up-down-up-down-left-right-left-right-abab-start.
Exploits are when a player finds a faulty string of code, knows for a fact it's not how things are supposed to play out, but instead of reporting it they ride it for all it's worth.
Some exploits are hard to catch. Especially considering the billions of line of code required for a game the size of EVE. All that has to happen is a single variable be off, and you can have a game-breaking exploit.
Remember, programmers are only human. I'd hate to see you judged by your own harsh standards in every area of -your- life.
I'm in 100% agreement here *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.22 02:11:00 -
[2595]
Originally by: Blood Daemon If I was in control at CCP I would ban every ****er who slated the company who is abiding by the EULA/TERMS.
Doesn't the fact that they don't do this tell you something?
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Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.22 02:11:00 -
[2596]
Originally by: T***G0d Thank you for your reply, this is my last word on this. It is good that we aren't judged like this in real life the way CCP is doing. Imagine if you took advantage of a "legal loophole" and you were just killed once it was found out. Maybe CCP should just fix the code, and take some assets and isk from the parties involved. Or, maybe release the names and alliances involved, and let the fellow gamers decide. Then if they choose to leave, they do so on their own. Banning accounts completely seems harsh to me, especially for something that has been around for 4 years. And I am sure that ^^you^^ couldn't give me the answer, but I'll ask again. PROVE, beyond a reasonable doubt, that all the banned offenders KNEW they were taking advantage of an "exploit". If it has been exploitable from the beginning, you would have nothing to compare it to. So, who is judging harshly?
I am not being harsh, I am just saying, before you "fire" your profit, maybe you should take an internal look at some people who have the skills/duty to recognize such "exploits".
This does worry me a bit.
Picture yourself as your corporation POS manager.
You've been setting up POS towers all day for your corporation. (YES ALL DAY POS online-ing structures takes forever)
You then log off, to goto work/school/life. Than come back during lunch in a rush and notice your POS is doing something odd again, wow thats news... so back to work/school/life you don't log in for a few days (wow people don't log in for a few days? blasphemy) Later you come back and dont' bother with the POS, maybe a week goes back.
Then you hear news of a POS exploit, but don't think much about it. As you're not an exploiter/cheater but then you find yourself permanently banned, and considered s****of the game.
The whole point of the example here is I'm sure people did exploit this intentionally but as well the exploit was originally found out by sheer accident. I wouldn't be surprised if some players that never intended to cheat/exploit where banned as well.
That right there bothers me. What If I as a player accidently came across an exploit but don't realize it.
Later I find myself banned... Permanently. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Squirrrel
Gallente Squirrrel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.22 02:35:00 -
[2597]
Originally by: Glengrant
Anybody who is convinced that CCP lies about claims to delete accounts and investigating this - cancel your subscription and never give them your credit card details again.
If you were in CCP's position right now, what would you do and how would you inform the player base (including saying nothing) in the event that: (I would be interested to hear anyone and everyones reponses to this to be honest.)
1) You discovered at least one petition slipped through the net regarding the POS exploit, and was closed by one of your GM's.
2) As above, however you discovered multiple petitions had slipped through and been closed without further action.
3) You found traces of indirect employee involvement. (Past and current employees)
4) As above, however direct employee involvement. (Past and current employees)
5) You didn't have the tools to realistically trace an audit trail of the profits.
6) You didn't have the tools to realistically trace accurately how long this exploit has been possible.
7) You do have the tools, and find that it was used at the point of POS introduction or shortly thereafter.
8) The amount of ISK involved in the exploit is obscene, and far in excess of the 3 trillion.
9) You uncovered another major exploit during the investigation.
10) You discovered that the majority of your player base was exploiting.
11) You don't really have any further answers beyond what has been stated in the two official responses.
12) It was previously petitioned on the test server.
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Almighty Zeus07
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Posted - 2008.12.22 02:47:00 -
[2598]
merry Christmas ccp. well at least they uncovered the major exploit so it can stop. Hope the goons been doing it would be funny if the thing that crumbled them was their own greed.
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horis hurbunker
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Posted - 2008.12.22 04:58:00 -
[2599]
I don't know if this has been brought up, but as far as "accidentally exploiting the bug" it would be one thing if a single player is doing it. If there seems to be a high number of people in a few corps it's unlikely that anyone else was meaning to do it; also, exploits are hard to find and harder to make use of because of all the testing being done to stop them. This probably required several steps to be taken in order to get it to happen and is not an everyday occurrence. CCP would not ban a person if they weren't using the exploits to gain massive amounts of money which this one could do. We still do not know how much was made for free and how much of the market this percent of tainted goods is. Eve is a large community and the effects of this should not be that horrible. Supply will eventually meet demands, doubly so now that we know there is a huge market for tech goods and everyone is trying to get in on the profits.
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ninjaholic
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.12.22 05:12:00 -
[2600]
Avarice weakens the walls from within
SUPPORT EVE-O's OWN IN-GAME FIGHT RECORD TOOL !! |
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Pure Manergy
Gallente The Sobani
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Posted - 2008.12.22 08:02:00 -
[2601]
Whilst your point is semi-valid, the point is: you take up valuable space with your pointless opinions.
In regard to the actual topic: It's your problem, not us unbanned ones, and it's unlikely that CCP will revoke the ban. Therefore, stop whining and make a new account or get on with life.
Flame away! ---------------------------------------------- This is the way the world ends; This is the way the world ends; This is the way the world ends; Not with a bang, but a whimper. ~T.S. Eliot. |
RAGINGMANIAC
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Posted - 2008.12.22 08:06:00 -
[2602]
Saying the starbases were exploited doesnt mean much to me. I would like to understand more about the specifics of how starbases were exploited.
I have seen atleast one other bug exploited in this game.
The thing about bugs is, one mans bug is another mans function.
Also a note about banning, I am usually quick to say ban them!! but on the other hand there is a paradox, when one is allowed to cheat the other almost need to follow suit to stay competitive. Ie the Tour De France, Major League baseball, NFL and apparently every other game.
MOre on the specifics of the exploit please.
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Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.22 11:01:00 -
[2603]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Go to the ghost trainign thread and you will see the most recent one.
I noticed that whining thread. Don't see where CCP lied there.
You obviously didn't follow events nor read the thread properly then. Their official statements for the reasoning for the fixing of this "bug" was laughable and changed as time went on and ultimately became about money.
I could have stomached that reasoning if they had just said it from the outset instead of tryng to spin it.
This.
At 197 pages / 5,891 posts, the unsubbed training nerf threadnaught has more than enough clear explanation by various posters to leave no excuse for failing to understand that there was no bug and that there were lies and spin. Anyone who offers uninformed opinions in other threads would be well advised to scan the actual threadnaught and try to acquire a clue or two.
Threadnaught
Original thread, locked almost immediately
Of course that Ghosttraining Nerf was for the money, the RL economy is on a downturn and logic would say to tighten the leaks.
Besides that certain responsible players took it upon themselves to make that freebie from CCP into a Macro Boost...Have you hunted macro-Ravens in nullsec or harassed Hulks/Itty Vs in hisec? Do you support macros? Are they not cheating?
That threadnought was rendered moot by this same argument, what hurts cheaters is good for the company, what is good for the company is good for HONEST players.
CCP is cracking down on exploits/bugs and here we are trying to cook up conspiracies that in the end don't even matter as long as we can repair the damage and hope more exploits are found early.
Go play the game, report the bugs and stop typing nonsense. Only way to make sure lazy/rude GMs get replaced quite frankly.
I'm still curious to see names revealed as that might actually show weaknesses in social organizations that are not nimble enough or diversified to adapt to what will no doubt be shocking for them also.
"Vultures feast on corpses no matter the stench."
Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
Liu
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Posted - 2008.12.22 11:10:00 -
[2604]
Originally by: Lusulpher
Of course that Ghosttraining Nerf was for the money, the RL economy is on a downturn and logic would say to tighten the leaks.
Besides that certain responsible players took it upon themselves to make that freebie from CCP into a Macro Boost...Have you hunted macro-Ravens in nullsec or harassed Hulks/Itty Vs in hisec? Do you support macros? Are they not cheating?
would you be so kind as to point out the conexion between ghost training (training while the account is suspended) and macroing?
Originally by: Apertotes tbh, boot.ini was overpowered and needed a nerf
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Skrull Kinta
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Posted - 2008.12.22 11:19:00 -
[2605]
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have discovered an exploit involving starbases that made it possible for some players to gain an unfair advantage over others. We have taken measures to address this by removing the starbases used in the exploit. Additionally, assets gained from its use have been seized and bans levied against the players involved. We will continue to monitor the game for issues such as this one. We encourage players to create a petition if become aware of any activities which may permit others to gain an unfair advantage in the game.
Update by Customer Support:
On December 7th 2008, a date which will live in infamy, a petition from a concerned player alerted us to a serious problem with Starbase reactors. The petition had been filed five days earlier, a far longer waiting time than we can accept with our current queue status and we have now taken measures to fix that. We immediately started investigating the issue and found that there was indeed a problem and that it was being exploited to gain unfair advantages.
We discovered seven corporations with multiple Starbases set up for the express purpose of exploiting the issue. Three of those corporations were members of two alliances. We took immediate action against the offenders and banned over 70 accounts and destroyed all the Starbases run by the corporations in question. All the offending corporations are now effectively inactive as a result of our actions.
The corporations were producing high end materials for T2 production. Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching. The effects of our actions against the exploiters will also be felt on the market as the production of the materials has been cut substantially. However, supply should increase again once players have mastered the alchemy process.
We are still conducting operations to deal with this matter and we will keep you posted on the progress and results as things develop.
Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.
I just want to say thank you for posting this.
You could have just not said anything.
The right thing and the easy thing to do are rarely the same.
Took the words out of my mouth.
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Just AL
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Posted - 2008.12.22 11:56:00 -
[2606]
If the implication of this is what I think it is and you are hiring programmers that are influencing the game for their own or their friends' benefit you can bet they have mainpulated the game in order to farm isk, equipment and the likes for sale.
Otherwise I'm trying to understand why the players have been banned for exploting a bug.
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Doc Imp
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Posted - 2008.12.22 14:03:00 -
[2607]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Inbound threadnaught detected
Millitary experts are calling this a cynosurual field!
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Johncrab
Minmatar XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.12.22 14:36:00 -
[2608]
Originally by: GM Grimmi
Update: (12/19/2008)
Here is an update on the investigation into the Starbase reactor exploit that we are currently conducting:
1. CCP has confirmed that this bug has been exploitable since February 2007. Changes to the Starbases code from launch until February 2007 are minimal and very unlikely to have caused the bug. So at this point we are working on the assumption that this bug has been exploitable since the release of player owned structures on November 24th, 2004. We will therefore focus solely on looking at Starbases data in order to determine who has been using this exploit, and for how long.
2. CCP has been able to restore older databases that show us that the bug has been exploited since at least January this year, but at a lower scale than in the last few months. The players involved then were the same ones that we found and banned recently. We are now working on restoring data from 2006 which will take us several days. It is uncertain if we will be able to have answers on that before holiday vacations.
3. CCP has been able to access data from our old petition system. We have been unable to confirm that a petition was filed in 2004, 2005 or 2006 pointing out this bug with Starbases. We urge anyone with information on who and when a petition on this issue was filed to contact us directly through the petition system under the Exploit Category. Alternatively, an email sent to [email protected] with details on the matter would be much appreciated.
4. The full investigation will take several weeks. CCP will be in direct contact with the CSM to discuss this issue and we will provide information to the community as it becomes available.
5. We have done a thorough investigation on our staff members and CSM members and found no links to this exploit.
6. Our actions so far have included the eradication of 178 starbases that were exploiting this issue. Some had multiple reactors running in the bugged state. We have also banned all those we have found directly involved and all accounts we have found to be connected to those players. The investigation is still under way and will take a while to conclude.
We will continue to work hard to understand the overall impact of this exploit and how widespread it was. We ask for your patience until more information becomes available.
Seems we are moving in the right direction. The next step is for people that assumed they reported this a long time ago to come fwd and show some proof. That's the most important issue we have to face, now that naming and shaming seems to be out of the question. |
Denidil
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Posted - 2008.12.22 15:24:00 -
[2609]
Originally by: Just AL
If the implication of this is what I think it is and you are hiring programmers that are influencing the game for their own or their friends' benefit you can bet they have mainpulated the game in order to farm isk, equipment and the likes for sale.
Otherwise I'm trying to understand why the players have been banned for exploting a bug.
they're banned because they violated the EULA
it doesn't take programmer avarice to introduce bugs. I hold a Bachelor of Sciences in Computer Science and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this bug could easily be the result of a simple typo or just an unexpected side effect of bonus stacking or any number of other things.
It states, pretty clearly, in the EULA that if you take advantage of a bug to cheat the system you can and will be banned. End of Story.
Stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories and stop expecting programmers to be fragging Uebermenschen!
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Mavric
Viscosity
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Posted - 2008.12.22 15:50:00 -
[2610]
Quote: The service CCP provides is this game. It is not permanent, given, but while our subscriptions last they can't pull the plug without consequences. They can pull the plug at the very momentall subscriptions end, but that would be as smart as Coke stop selling soft-drinks. This is how they make money, my friend, they pull the plug they shoot their own head...
You should probably read the EULA. It is almost standard wording on any online service that they can shut down without notice and not be responsible. They are also not required to refund any outstanging ballance for unplayed time.
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