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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.12.12 14:57:00 -
[1051]
Sorry to go back a bit in the thread, but I'm catching up and wanted to respond specifically to something from you said earlier that I think is very important for CCP/CSM and indeed the player community here.
Originally by: LaVista Vista Well. First of all, I kicked off this process. Please understand that CCP does not want to discuss exploits under any circumstances, not even with the CSM.
Well, I think this might be one of those defining moments in Eve history where the rules need to be changed. This is potentially well beyond the simple kind of exploit where one player cheats and is punished and everyone carries on regardless. If what has happened here is anywhere near the scope we fear, then it has had a major impact on the game of eve online and its important that the air is cleared and we can see who is guilty and (more importantly) who is innocent in the realm of 0.0 politics and alliance game.
I'm not personally a fan of "name and shame" for ordinary transgressions and bans from personal exploits and minor villainy - but cheating on this scale demands more transparency and far more extensive disclosure of what has happened, how, and in which ways it impacted the political balance of 0.0.
We also need a far more detailed response from CCP on how long the exploit has been running and how it was missed. Is it really the case that the first time this was noticed was in the recent petition or was it reported earlier (as allegeded on 3rd party forums)? If it was known about a long time ago what went wrong?
Quote: I will however have to ask everybody to manage their expectations. Please don't expect anything. CCP's stance is clear at this point. We might be able to work something out with them so we can make more people happy.
Important to note that its not for players to manage their expectations - players obviously want to know whats going on here. If the exploit is on the scale it appears then there is a need to restore faith and trust again and assure us that all those responsible have been appropriately punished. We also need to know what happened to the proceeds of cheating - where did the ISK go? Which bpos got bought? Which titans were made? Which alliances were advantaged as a result?
Basically Lavista - I didn't vote for you last time because I lacked much faith in you being able to deliver results in a crisis. Time to prove me wrong. And for the people I did vote for, Ank, Omber, Pattern, - please get in there and don't take no for an answer. Its vital we get great transparency on this issue. This isn't an ordinary exploit, its not a case of ordinary bannings and naughty individuals being protected from the results of their shame. There is a need for the eve player base to know the full truth now otherwise ALL 0.0 POS owning entities are going to get viewed with suspicion henceforth and that isn't good for the game.
CSM was created in part as a result to the poor first response to the t20 scandal. Time to learn those lessons and give the degree of disclosure required to truly restore public confidence. And frankly - if you get stonewalled on this stuff you should be considering your positions not running spin.
Quote: Any direct information, names, numbers of titan and what not people have requested, I will personally be VERY MUCH against that CCP discloses. It's unreasonable to expect and it will *NOT* help anything to the situation. It will only serve the people who wants to create drama in the forum.
Names I agree on. But I do want to know which corporations, which alliances, how much ISK and where it went. And I do want to know how many titans got produced with this illicit income.
This situation created the drama. The cheats created the drama. CCP/CSM can control and reduce the drama but giving appropriate focus and transparency to this issue. Sweeping it under the carpet will not make it go away so again I urge you to be tough this weekend and get the answers we need.
ISSUE - Bring back live events |
Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:05:00 -
[1052]
Red letter day in history, but ingame drama aside: This ^^ In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Butzew
SRBI Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:06:00 -
[1053]
...
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Mark'us Ksir
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:13:00 -
[1054]
Signed
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Eszencia
Unknown Element Research
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:32:00 -
[1055]
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:38:00 -
[1056]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: LaVista Vista First of all, I kicked off this process. Please understand that CCP does not want to discuss exploits under any circumstances, not even with the CSM.
Well, I think this might be one of those defining moments in Eve history where the rules need to be changed. This is potentially well beyond the simple kind of exploit where one player cheats and is punished and everyone carries on regardless. If what has happened here is anywhere near the scope we fear, then it has had a major impact on the game of eve online and its important that the air is cleared and we can see who is guilty and (more importantly) who is innocent in the realm of 0.0 politics and alliance game.
Quote: update regarding the starbase exploit reported by GM Grimmi | 2008.12.11 13:29:29 | NEW
Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.
I think this show that the CSM is getting somewhere.
We need a bit of patience as CCP too must keep up with the investigations. And surely they will check all the CSM members and surrogates before the meeting.
Strong disclaimer: I am not implying anything and especially that any CSM member or alternate has anything to do with this.
Simply it is a good procedure to check the people with wick you will be disclosing relevant data before doing that.
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elric gallach
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:38:00 -
[1057]
If its alliances that have done this,????
Do THEY have members on the CSM. If so how can the csm be involved, in the process of put it right.
CCP needs to be open about this. VERY OPEN
JUSTICE TO BE DONE MUST BE SEEN TO BE DONE
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Aypse
Infecti0n
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:40:00 -
[1058]
Supportin dis thred
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SSgt Sniper
MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:46:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Massive content.
This is exactly why I wish you had run for another go in the CSM. You have your haters, but you have backbone I'm afraid some of the other members of the panel may not have.
Reconsider for next go round please.
And yes, I support this product and/or service. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Plundaar
Gallente Golden Orb Technology inc
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:53:00 -
[1060]
well, they're having a meeting. I hope they intend to make this public.
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Xe na
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:06:00 -
[1061]
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Suva Orefinger
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:08:00 -
[1062]
Signed.
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Lord Orefinger
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:09:00 -
[1063]
Signed and approved.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:26:00 -
[1064]
This needs tracing all the way back, every one must be punished for this. ---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
JIexa21
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:26:00 -
[1065]
!!!
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Eterador
Standing Issues
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:36:00 -
[1066]
Supported, specifically regarding the supposed petitions/bug reports that were submitted when this exploit was first discovered. I've heard vague references and allegations regarding something called ghost mining over the last couple of years, I'm guessing this was it. Just how was it missed for this long?
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Celik Vernon
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:48:00 -
[1067]
Jumping on the bandwagon of the "i want blood" people.
On another note, i wonder how the players that did not get banned but were drinking from the faucet of free flowing isk will fare once they have to actually earn their keep
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Lady Explosion
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:08:00 -
[1068]
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ParaTroop
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:10:00 -
[1069]
How can this have continued for four years? It's going to (and has) cause a rift in relations between CCP and the EvE community, transparency is the only way CCP can address this issue without further damaging trust.
Signed
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p4wl
Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:10:00 -
[1070]
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:30:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
If what has happened here is anywhere near the scope we fear, then it has had a major impact on the game of eve online and its important that the air is cleared and we can see who is guilty and (more importantly) who is innocent in the realm of 0.0 politics and alliance game.
It's not a case of one player, or even a small isolated group of players. In the T20 scandal, it was clear: A CCP employee was giving players in BOB, and bob only, free stuff.
The scope of this was vast, and has been confirmed as far reaching by CCP itself. We need to know exactly how far because it's already been confirmed to be multi alliance and over 70 characters on the INITIAL RESPONSE. We need to know which corps and alliances weren't involved as much as we do those who were, otherwise many groups (including those to whom CSM are members of) will constantly operate with this scandal over their heads.
Investigate, dig deep, punish the offenders and/or remove the ISK, and put the information out so we know what happened and can move on as a community. Truth and Reconcilitation Commisions work for a reason. As long as the suspicion is allowed to continue the issue will never be truely settled. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Nicoli Malthus
The First Somerset Strikers
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:40:00 -
[1072]
I'd like some answers please, where are our answers??
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The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:42:00 -
[1073]
Edited by: The PitBoss on 12/12/2008 17:47:39
WELL After 36 pages and collecting my thoughts ... Time for me to put in my 2 cents.
I've played and payed for the my subscription for ALMOST 5 years straight. Over that time I've witnessed ALOT of changes in the game. Some for the worst MOST for the better.
I ENJOY my hobby of playing this particular MMORPG. I've managed to play by the rules AND thoroughly enjoyed the game. BUT this exploit REALLY FRUSTRATES me.
To say that it was a 'select few involved' is ludicrous. YOU KNOW EVERYONE associated with the corp/alliance benefited (NO MATTER HOW LITTLE) and Had some IDEA something was up.
====================
To the specific corp/alliances who are in violation:
F uck YOUR apology
... and THANKS for ruining my faith in the GAME and my hobby.
WHO Likes to play a game when they are constantly put at a disadvantage from a GROUP of players ... Allegedly for the LAST 4 years !?!
- How many battles have I BARELY lost cuz some A$$hole made T2 items within the buying range of EVERYONE.
- How many people who produce T2 items aren't as well off isk wise as they should be because some A$$hole flooded the market with cheap goods.
- How many times have I killed a T2 fitted ship ONLY to cash the mods in and get shyte for ISK.
- HOW much Real-Life money did these people make off the exploit ... think about it .. BUY up GTCs and sell them for Real-Life money for less than the NORMAL price to their buddies ...
====================
ANWAY, I can go on and on ...
I DEMAND answers ... Punish them how you see fit BUT i want:
1. Names involved. 2. Corporations / Alliances involved. 3. The extent of the damage to the game. 4. What actions will be taken to ENSURE a LEVEL playing field for ALL subscribers.
====================
The way CCP handles this one WILL dictate if I continue to subscribe to their product -OR- make other arrangements to depart the game and move on to another MMORGP that can appease me CUSTOMER SERVICE wise.
PS: No you can't haz my stuff
Thank-You,
The Pitboss
Signatures by: Kalen Vox |
Arimathea Anthalas
Game-Over
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:59:00 -
[1074]
.
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Shanzem
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.12 18:01:00 -
[1075]
. -------------------------------------------
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Darin Raltin
Two Brothers Mining Corp. Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2008.12.12 18:22:00 -
[1076]
.
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Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:08:00 -
[1077]
I agree, at the very least it needs to be announced which corps and alliances are responsible and how much/what has been removed from them.
If nothing else the fact that we have seen X field 3 Titans in the past means they still have an advantage of us assuming they still have 3 Titans even if they have all been removed unless CCP tells us they have been removed.
---
My corp is recruiting. Check out our recruitment thread here.
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Dismus
Universal Star
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:08:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Draeca Domi isn't ugly, it actually looks quite symphatic. I mean, a crossbreed of a whale and a potato.. Now how cute is that?
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:45:00 -
[1079]
Internet Drama Gotta love Eve for this
But seriously, supported, we need to know.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:50:00 -
[1080]
signed
Voluntold, New Webcomic
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