Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 48 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rock'n'Roll Lady
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 18:44:00 -
[1201]
Originally by: Bunyip Edited by: Bunyip on 15/12/2008 18:37:00
Originally by: TrojanFresh Sad thing about this matter is that there is no checks or balances its only when someone rats on someone that you ever see anything ever done. Of all things you would think that people would of noticed more complex of a product otu there than could be ever produced. Still everyone will pay to play a game even though the people in charge of keeping it fair and balance never do a good job. Its just hey lets not fix it and use it or turn the other cheek for certain members of CCP and with more bad media coming out this game will never become great. It will just be something that could of been because individuals who can do things never have to worry about being check of wrong doing until its way beyond the point of damage. So tell me how does someone who makes insane amounts of isk go for 4 years without ever being crossed check? or the countless others that do it. Sad part about it is such a great game but yet such poor management of ones employees
Let me start out by saying that the exploit has been going on for less than a year. It wasn't even possible to do the exploit a mere two years ago, so that 4 year thing is rediculous.
Second, while the people did make a great deal of ISK, it wasn't an insane amount, and all those possessions are probably being siezed as we speak. The amount they made was less than the amount that exchanges hands in a single day in Eve, so while it may be noticeable, it's not significant or game-breaking.
Last, there will probably be a price spike on Ferrogel, but it will balance out due to Alchemy. The price might never be as low as it is now, but it will not spike through the roof either. If EyjoG notices the price getting extreme, I trust that he'll take steps to equalize it.
hehe funny that CSM started talking like CCP after they got elected, not talking about you only but every one else too, we deserve transparency not hush hush cover up, and people were saying from the word go that CSM is a way to silence our voices i didn't believed them but now thinking about it being true.
|
Banjo String
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 18:47:00 -
[1202]
Originally by: Bunyip Edited by: Bunyip on 15/12/2008 18:37:00
Originally by: TrojanFresh Sad thing about this matter is that there is no checks or balances its only when someone rats on someone that you ever see anything ever done. Of all things you would think that people would of noticed more complex of a product otu there than could be ever produced. Still everyone will pay to play a game even though the people in charge of keeping it fair and balance never do a good job. Its just hey lets not fix it and use it or turn the other cheek for certain members of CCP and with more bad media coming out this game will never become great. It will just be something that could of been because individuals who can do things never have to worry about being check of wrong doing until its way beyond the point of damage. So tell me how does someone who makes insane amounts of isk go for 4 years without ever being crossed check? or the countless others that do it. Sad part about it is such a great game but yet such poor management of ones employees
Let me start out by saying that the exploit has been going on for less than a year. It wasn't even possible to do the exploit a mere two years ago, so that 4 year thing is rediculous.
Second, while the people did make a great deal of ISK, it wasn't an insane amount, and all those possessions are probably being siezed as we speak. The amount they made was less than the amount that exchanges hands in a single day in Eve, so while it may be noticeable, it's not significant or game-breaking.
Last, there will probably be a price spike on Ferrogel, but it will balance out due to Alchemy. The price might never be as low as it is now, but it will not spike through the roof either. If EyjoG notices the price getting extreme, I trust that he'll take steps to equalize it.
I thought a CSM member had confirmed already it had been going on for two years? I read it, not sure if it's further up in this thread or was during the chat session yesterday?
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 18:55:00 -
[1203]
Originally by: Bunyip It wasn't an insane amount... The amount they made was less than the amount that exchanges hands in a single day in Eve, so while it may be noticeable, it's not significant or game-breaking...
And why did CCP say then "Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching." (original post)
Funny, funny, aint it?
|
John'eh
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 18:55:00 -
[1204]
Bunyip, with all due respect, I really dont trust you becouse you are talking like a marketing guy and acting like a CCP shrill.
Have some orbs, be for the people who you are sopposed to represent.
|
Bunyip
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:15:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: Gnulpie And why did CCP say then "Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching." (original post)
Funny, funny, aint it?
Don't get me wrong, the prices will spike and we'll have a bit of tumult on the markets, but a lot of people are exploding this far more than it deserves. This was a disaster that slipped through QA's hands, and I'm not trying to justify them or their actions. Sometimes, though, mistakes will happen, and then it goes down to CCP being on cleanup crew (as they are right now).
Ferrogel will probably never return to the price it is now, but if it gets too high, CCP will take action to normalize it to ensure the game doesn't shatter. The meeting minutes will explain all of this, but for now, all I can tell you is a taste of what was said in the meeting.
Originally by: Banjo String I thought a CSM member had confirmed already it had been going on for two years? I read it, not sure if it's further up in this thread or was during the chat session yesterday?
The exploit was available to be used for less than two years, and wasn't discovered by the exploiters until less than a year ago. FYI, about two years ago (as noted above) a patch was released that didn't affect POSes, but a line of code or something came in conflict, creating the exploit. That has been patched now, and CCP is working to make sure something like this never happens again.
If you could feel the tension in the meeting room, you'd understand how much CCP wants this resolved, and they're going to be going through their records for some time now making sure every possible exception is taken care of. If there were alliances that used this exploit to their advantage and knew it was occuring, I sense there will be a sudden power vacuum in 0.0.
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:19:00 -
[1206]
Originally by: Bunyip If you could feel the tension in the meeting room, you'd understand how much CCP wants this resolved, and they're going to be going through their records for some time now making sure every possible exception is taken care of. If there were alliances that used this exploit to their advantage and knew it was occuring, I sense there will be a sudden power vacuum in 0.0.
Well where are the meeting minute notes? We've been told 1-2 hours and we're far past that I believe.
|
Kaijusan
Gallente gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:27:00 -
[1207]
Originally by: Solomon XI
Originally by: Bunyip If you could feel the tension in the meeting room, you'd understand how much CCP wants this resolved, and they're going to be going through their records for some time now making sure every possible exception is taken care of. If there were alliances that used this exploit to their advantage and knew it was occuring, I sense there will be a sudden power vacuum in 0.0.
Well where are the meeting minute notes? We've been told 1-2 hours and we're far past that I believe.
They are removing the "names" that cannot be implicated in this.
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:30:00 -
[1208]
Originally by: Kaijusan
Originally by: Solomon XI
Originally by: Bunyip If you could feel the tension in the meeting room, you'd understand how much CCP wants this resolved, and they're going to be going through their records for some time now making sure every possible exception is taken care of. If there were alliances that used this exploit to their advantage and knew it was occuring, I sense there will be a sudden power vacuum in 0.0.
Well where are the meeting minute notes? We've been told 1-2 hours and we're far past that I believe.
They are removing the "names" that cannot be implicated in this.
This is just one giant conspiracy and cover-up.
|
TR4D3R4LT
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:42:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: Solomon XI This is just one giant conspiracy and cover-up.
Here little man, have more tinfoil.
|
Klagknut Bonestalker
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:45:00 -
[1210]
Originally by: Bunyip
Originally by: Gnulpie And why did CCP say then "Working with the Research & Statistics team we have established that the effects on the markets have been considerable and far reaching." (original post)
Funny, funny, aint it?
Don't get me wrong, the prices will spike and we'll have a bit of tumult on the markets, but a lot of people are exploding this far more than it deserves. This was a disaster that slipped through QA's hands, and I'm not trying to justify them or their actions. Sometimes, though, mistakes will happen, and then it goes down to CCP being on cleanup crew (as they are right now).[snip]
Originally by: Banjo String I thought a CSM member had confirmed already it had been going on for two years? I read it, not sure if it's further up in this thread or was during the chat session yesterday?
The exploit was available to be used for less than two years, and wasn't discovered by the exploiters until less than a year ago. FYI, about two years ago (as noted above) a patch was released that didn't affect POSes, but a line of code or something came in conflict, creating the exploit. That has been patched now, and CCP is working to make sure something like this never happens again.
If you could feel the tension in the meeting room, you'd understand how much CCP wants this resolved, and they're going to be going through their records for some time now making sure every possible exception is taken care of. If there were alliances that used this exploit to their advantage and knew it was occuring, I sense there will be a sudden power vacuum in 0.0.
You came to Tash-Murkon and asked for my vote. You promised to represent the players. Why are you quoting CCP montra? This has been going on longer than you state in this missive. Other personnel have admitted to it.
Too bad you invested so very much time with us! CCP and you do not have the same writing style. Someone other than you is penning these short inserts of misinformation. Why are you permitting it? They cheated. They got caught. They allowed others to benefit from it. The market and every other aspect of this game has been impacted. This is neither trivial nor incidental. Why are you attempting to pretend it is so?
When are the individual responsible going to be named?
When are we going to know the alliances involved?
When are we going to be told the names of the corporations involved?
When are you going to respond to us with honesty instead of the company coined utterance? If you are nothing more than their guise - why do it? Did you lie to me when I asked if you would be THIS and you said no? Obviously you did!
You are a liar!
|
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:48:00 -
[1211]
Originally by: TR4D3R4LT
Originally by: Solomon XI This is just one giant conspiracy and cover-up.
Here little man, have more tinfoil.
Thanks! I didn't have enough already.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:49:00 -
[1212]
Originally by: Bunyip Ferrogel will probably never return to the price it is now, but if it gets too high, CCP will take action to normalize it to ensure the game doesn't shatter.
Remember that the game didn't 'shatter' when T2 prices were set by the BPO holders... It's not going to happen either even if T2 prices were to increase drastically...
There is plenty of reason to think that T2 as it is is actually too cheap. The main one being that it has completely made almost all named T1 items unused. If T2 prices got a kick upwards, you'd suddenly see a lot more of the available items actually being used.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
|
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 19:55:00 -
[1213]
Originally by: Kaijusan
Originally by: Solomon XI
Originally by: Bunyip
They are removing the "names" that cannot be implicated in this.
..Well thats just pathetic. The CSM couldnt even get transparency in the most fundamental area of the whole issue There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
KAELA MENSHA
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:01:00 -
[1214]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Bunyip Ferrogel will probably never return to the price it is now, but if it gets too high, CCP will take action to normalize it to ensure the game doesn't shatter.
Remember that the game didn't 'shatter' when T2 prices were set by the BPO holders... It's not going to happen either even if T2 prices were to increase drastically...
There is plenty of reason to think that T2 as it is is actually too cheap. The main one being that it has completely made almost all named T1 items unused. If T2 prices got a kick upwards, you'd suddenly see a lot more of the available items actually being used.
Very true Tech II is too cheap atm.
Lets see the meeting details, And then decide if CCP is covering its arse
|
Issler Dainze
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:15:00 -
[1215]
All I can say is we are getting the first results of the CCP investigation into the exploit. CCP is in no way finished with the investigation. My impression is that CCP takes this very seriously. You've heard some statements about the meeting and the realities of the exploit from the CSM. I'm only going to say I don't think CCP is far enough into their investigation to make definite statements about the scope of the exploit. There will be more definite releases from CCP when more is known.
I also share frustrations in regards to naming and shaming, but I also understand the CCP policies and respect their decision to not name involved parties. Please know these policies are NOT about covering things up, they are about concerns for individual rights to privacy.
I hope the pilots of Eve continue to demand transparency from both the CSM and CCP. You all need to decide for yourselves what that means but if something is not explained to your satisfaction you need to continue to make any dissatisfaction known.
Issler
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:17:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Issler Dainze All I can say is we are getting the first results of the CCP investigation into the exploit. CCP is in no way finished with the investigation. My impression is that CCP takes this very seriously. You've heard some statements about the meeting and the realities of the exploit from the CSM. I'm only going to say I don't think CCP is far enough into their investigation to make definite statements about the scope of the exploit. There will be more definite releases from CCP when more is known.
I also share frustrations in regards to naming and shaming, but I also understand the CCP policies and respect their decision to not name involved parties. Please know these policies are NOT about covering things up, they are about concerns for individual rights to privacy.
I hope the pilots of Eve continue to demand transparency from both the CSM and CCP. You all need to decide for yourselves what that means but if something is not explained to your satisfaction you need to continue to make any dissatisfaction known.
Issler
So where are the meeting minutes?
|
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:17:00 -
[1217]
I'm not one of the peasants with pitchforks and torches, but I am avid to see those minutes. "An hour or two" has turned into three and a half plus, any idea when they'll actually go up? ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Ktarr Rakillo
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:21:00 -
[1218]
Edited by: Ktarr Rakillo on 15/12/2008 20:21:45 Unfortunately I guess, being heavily edited for "content".
Such a shame, I had high hopes for the CSM.
Well at least I might be able to see who asked what questions, provided those haven't also been edited.
|
John'eh
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:22:00 -
[1219]
So when do we get that report?! We have been waiting...
|
Havlentia Castigatrix
Gallente The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:23:00 -
[1220]
Originally by: Issler Dainze
I also share frustrations in regards to naming and shaming, but I also understand the CCP policies and respect their decision to not name involved parties. Please know these policies are NOT about covering things up, they are about concerns for individual rights to privacy.
As far as I'm aware, characters/ingame corporations are not classed as entities with regard to privacy rules, and it would go some way to showing actions rather than simply talking about them.
You have to admit that CCP's credibility to it's playerbase is taking a hell of a hit and the CSM was created as an answer to the concept of 'transparency'. At this juncture it would be interesting and possibly a PR coup to simply tell us numbers of the banned and dissolved corps rather than hide behind such vague concepts as 'far reaching' and 'many'.
----- This space left intentionally blank |
|
Kaijusan
Gallente gallach minig Corp New Eve Mining manufacturing Organisation
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:24:00 -
[1221]
Right to privacy for what? If they knowingly exploited the game they lost their right to privacy.
Mark my words if they do NOT release names this will just fuel the rampant speculation about WHO exactly was involved and it will only further diminish any trust the player base has in CCP with regards to Devs being in Alliances and so forth.
There comes a time when you HAVE to come clean and THIS is it.
Unless, of course, you discovered half your Dev team is involved in this.....right?
|
Doc Fury
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:26:00 -
[1222]
Originally by: Marlenus I'm not one of the peasants with pitchforks and torches, but I am avid to see those minutes. "An hour or two" has turned into three and a half plus, any idea when they'll actually go up?
Just as soon as CCP's ministry of information, PR and Marketing departments can apply enough polished Truth-Speak« to the meeting minutes.
Be prepared to hear all about how Alchemy is going to be double plus good!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Haakelen
Gallente Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:29:00 -
[1223]
Originally by: Kaijusan Right to privacy for what? If they knowingly exploited the game they lost their right to privacy.
In the real world of grownups, that is not how it works. As a business entity CCP has certain obligations and responsibilities. They are obligated to follow their own terms of service and privacy policy, lest someone sue them. They are under no obligation to cooperate with a lynching party on their forums.
The nerdragers here talk a whole lot about 'respect' and 'trust' of the playerbase (nice of you to speak for all of us). I would have considerably less trust and respect for CCP if they revealed private information, or decided to point their fingers at people.
If you don't believe they're telling the truth about any facet of this, why, therefor, do you have such implicit trust in their naming of names? Anyone they referred to would certainly be banned, and would have absolutely no way to respond to it.
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:30:00 -
[1224]
Well I can't wait for the Meeting Minutes all day - I have other stuff to do. This whole fiasco is just pure BS. *An hour or two?* my ass.
|
Issler Dainze
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:31:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Solomon XI So where are the meeting minutes?[/quote
Because of the sensitive nature of the discussions CCP is reviewing the logs to make sure that nothing that would be considered sensitive, propriatory or in violation of policy to CCP is accidentally included. So there are several groups in CCP that need to complete the review. Given the fact the meeting was on a Sunday I expect a number of folks had a full plate of work first thing Monday to get these logs out to the community.
Bottom line, they are coming, so hang in there,
Issler
|
loki gallach
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:32:00 -
[1226]
The level of disclosure about this exploit by CCP. Will either validate the CSM. OR prove its irrelevance.
|
Havlentia Castigatrix
Gallente The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:32:00 -
[1227]
Originally by: Haakelen They are obligated to follow their own terms of service and privacy policy, lest someone sue them.
You'll find that everything they supply is their property, meaning the data.
Originally by: Haakelen
The nerdragers here talk a whole lot about 'respect' and 'trust' of the playerbase (nice of you to speak for all of us).
Yeah, it eventually translates into the commercial reality of people jumping ship once there is a competing product on the market.
Originally by: Haakelen
I would have considerably less trust and respect for CCP if they revealed private information, or decided to point their fingers at people.
Oh, you silly bear, a character name isn't private information. I can see hundreds in local on a daily basis. As for pointing fingers, a ban is pretty pointy.
----- This space left intentionally blank |
Agent Marvin
A Cell Delta.Green
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:34:00 -
[1228]
Originally by: Kaijusan They are removing the "names" that cannot be implicated in this.
They should name and shame.
|
John'eh
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:35:00 -
[1229]
Edited by: John''eh on 15/12/2008 20:36:45
Originally by: Issler Dainze
Originally by: Solomon XI So where are the meeting minutes?[/quote
Because of the sensitive nature of the discussions CCP is reviewing the logs to make sure that nothing that would be considered sensitive, propriatory or in violation of policy to CCP is accidentally included. So there are several groups in CCP that need to complete the review. Given the fact the meeting was on a Sunday I expect a number of folks had a full plate of work first thing Monday to get these logs out to the community.
Bottom line, they are coming, so hang in there,
Issler
What this means folks, is that legal, marketing, and the CEO need to sign off on whats put out there:
Legal to make sure they cant be sued over it. Marketing to make sure it represents the right experiece. The CEO so he can find out what happened for the first time.
|
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.12.15 20:36:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: Issler Dainze
Originally by: Solomon XI So where are the meeting minutes?[/quote
Because of the sensitive nature of the discussions CCP is reviewing the logs to make sure that nothing that would be considered sensitive, propriatory or in violation of policy to CCP is accidentally included. So there are several groups in CCP that need to complete the review. Given the fact the meeting was on a Sunday I expect a number of folks had a full plate of work first thing Monday to get these logs out to the community.
Bottom line, they are coming, so hang in there,
Issler
TRANSLATION: It's taking so long because CCP is worried that something said/did will make them look worse than they already do.
I expected the CSM to stand up for us ... now I am beginning to wonder if they've become CCP's lapdog.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 48 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |