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Rata Nrnima
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Posted - 2008.12.20 06:02:00 -
[1321]
Edited by: Rata Nrnima on 20/12/2008 06:08:14
Originally by: Issler Dainze
Originally by: Rata Nrnima
Originally by: Bunyip Yes, CCP is receiving a lot of flak for this, but I admire them for sticking to their guns. CCP is choosing to take the heat rather than innocent people in alliances which few people would be guilty, and playing the martyr.
Justify this:
Started playing eve May this year. I played for months, then they put a major patch in. Some things changed and I put in a petition. Discovered I was playing a game no one else had access to. Being a Noob, I didn't belong to a corp or alliance, didn't know the game I was playing was different from the one everyone else was playing. To make an incredibly long story short, CCP GMC was provided screen shots,databases, etc., and to this day they insist the game we were playing did not and does not exist. They removed "non-existent" items from my hangar; got all the details from me; had eye-witness account from one of their "players" befriending me in-game and actually playing that game with me. I didn't know the rats didn't talk to everyone, etc., announce when enemies entered the system, etc. I know now, so I played for 5 months this game.
It was a game code hidden in EVE that I stumbled upon and won! and they took it from me. They know one of theirs is cheating for someone. I won a game I wasn't suppose to. They took it from me. They deny to this day that game exists.
CCP will never oust the culprits because the culprit is CCP. That game was entirely too extensive for it not to have been programmed. Told me I was finding a series of plexes, and explorations that never appeared in my tabs. In other words, they lied and when the lie didn't work they denied, then closed their eyes and blamed it on my noobiness.
I have pages and pages of communications between my self and CCP petition personnel. They insist, "if the people who wrote the program say that game does not exist, it doesn't. They would know". If they didn't investigate that - they won't investigate this. People who have viewed my documentation agree - THIS WAS FOR SOMEONE OTHER THAN ME ! ! ! It is not an exploit, not a bug. It is programed cheating.
If this body wants copies of my documentation and correspondence between CCP and myself and all others involved, we will gladly provide it. Those who quit over this cheat are willing to come back and provide evidence. Others are too disgusted and won't.
Now, Mr. Bunyip, are you for us or them. You have a viable, genuine, living willing victim here. Are you, this body, going to investigate and prevent further cheating? WE are proof CCP not only condones but programs these cheats into their game. Why else would they not investigate when all proof is provided?
I would be very interested in seeing what you have to document the situation you describe.
Issler
Please provide an avenue for me to contact you in-game so I can give you the extensive files; Provide you contact information of all players, present and past involved. I have the original petition; data base of all evidence provided; screen shots of events we came across as we continued to play and report to CCP; we have a record of all reports to CCCP concerning this game; We have shots of the stargates before they were in this game; we have copies of the clues; copies of the conversations with the rats; copies of . . .
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Svender Atreides
A Few Killers
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Posted - 2008.12.20 14:34:00 -
[1322]
Edited by: Svender Atreides on 20/12/2008 14:34:31 Full disclosure after teh FACT's ahve been reviewed is the only way to restore confidence to the palyer base.
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Tempest Inferno
Davy Jones Locker
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Posted - 2008.12.20 15:02:00 -
[1323]
I agree that they need to disclose more information on this issue. Once the facts have been reviewed and ALL action has been taken CCP should release a full report to the players. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Arkinara
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Posted - 2008.12.20 16:50:00 -
[1324]
Must be done.
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Sharkk
Stinkys Clam Shack
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Posted - 2008.12.20 22:08:00 -
[1325]
would like full discloser on issue
not because I believe it is owed to me
but just cause I'm curious
if CCP knew about the exploiting I highly doubt they would admit to any knowledge of it at any rate which is what people seem to expect they might get...lol
If my tech 2 market was suffering a missive bottle neck in supply of raw materials I might turn a blind eye to a few discreet people making a lot of Isk to prop up the market with exploited materials until I could implement a feature to increase production of those raw material...ala alchemy
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Feyd'Rautha Harkonen
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Posted - 2008.12.21 03:09:00 -
[1326]
Signed. Public Vetting of Exploiters is necessary to give us the ability to independently verify that characters DID exist and WERE booted. Somebody knew these people after all; and a flood of alts would only demonstrate that the alt system may need attention.
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Feyd'Rautha Harkonen
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Posted - 2008.12.21 04:08:00 -
[1327]
Quote:
I'll probably have to put on my fire-******ant suit for this one, but I agree with what CCP is doing. If they release character names, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to link names to the alliances (unless they purged all info from that character's affiliation and all rosters) - People and Places can do that in a minute.
People know Eve better than that by now. We'd have people who had nothing to do with this scandal all the sudden hunted down wherever they go, and if they try to join another corp, only about 2% of the player base would even take them. Soon, they'd quit their accounts as they aren't able to do what they used to enjoy doing. Quote:
Well, here comes the flame thrower
If CCP wants to protect the innocent characters by inventing the virtual equivalent of the Witness Protection program allowing them to change names and portraits so they can go about their happy little virtual lives fine by me. But the solution should NOT spare the guilty OR the organizations founded on illicit gain. For that matter maybe CEOs need to pay attention to why "Mafia Corp" is posting ridiculously disproportionate profits.
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Chomp Rock
Phantasmal Collective
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Posted - 2008.12.21 18:57:00 -
[1328]
CCP, give us a running commentary on what you're currently in the process of digging up with speculations on who and where it might....
oh wait, no, that would be stupid.
give us a full report on your findings and actions taken (with due respect for privacy and EULA) AFTER you've gotten to the bottom of the issue and done everything you can.
in other words, keep doing what you're doing and ignore the nerd-rage and fake indignity in this thread. i trust the company single-handedly running every aspect of the most complex MMO on the market to handle a handful of cheaters that left a huge trail of archived evidence.
Originally by: Lui Kai Chribba - when you log in next, let us know what the end credits to the game say
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Rata Nrnima
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Posted - 2008.12.21 21:22:00 -
[1329]
Originally by: Issler Dainze [I would be very interested in seeing what you have to document the situation you describe.
Issler
Please provide an avenue for me to contact you in-game so I can give you the extensive files; Provide you contact information of all players, present and past involved. I have the original petition; data base of all evidence provided; screen shots of events we came across as we continued to play and report to CCP; we have a record of all reports to CCCP concerning this game; We have shots of the stargates before they were in this game; we have copies of the clues; copies of the conversations with the rats; copies of . . .
Ingame contact made. awaiting response from Issler
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Political Prisoner
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.12.23 03:31:00 -
[1330]
II'm not ready to let this rest
Back to the top with you .... Respectfully,
Political Prisoner
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Xeno Xandovar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.12.23 09:47:00 -
[1331]
/signed
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Felysta Sandorn
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.23 13:49:00 -
[1332]
I'm down with this, this is the whole reason the CSM was founded in the first place, so that we (as players) could understand what was involved, how much ISK was wrongfully gotten, and what CCP are really doing... Just saying "Yeah, we banned a few accounts" is great, but we want real justice, not just a slap on the wrist that you give people that swear in-game.
This is a major issue, and requires major action!
.: A Vagabond's Requiem (Blog) :.
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JorEl Tarasque
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Posted - 2008.12.23 22:54:00 -
[1333]
I have to throw in my bump again.
Also, I thought this page was longer than 45 before. (May be thinking of the wrong thread) My family always told me I wasn't right...
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Svender Atreides
Gallente A Few Killers
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Posted - 2008.12.24 15:22:00 -
[1334]
bumpage
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Marleena DeNocca
DeNocca Research and Investments Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.24 19:04:00 -
[1335]
Bump and agree with the op! Hang the heretics!!
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John'eh
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Posted - 2008.12.24 19:15:00 -
[1336]
Edited by: John''eh on 24/12/2008 19:15:28 The fact is the people who play eve - us - need to police ourselves and I for one will happily host any proof people have that an alliance, corp or person cheated, ccp cheated, outside the network that CCP controls.
All you have to do is contact me in game. In fact, think I may start a website devoted to that sort of thing.
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Holding Kwint
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Posted - 2008.12.26 05:26:00 -
[1337]
We demand a transparent investigation of this exploit!
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Anya Zymandi
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Posted - 2008.12.26 21:51:00 -
[1338]
Signed.
Names, alliances, amounts, total ISK. It should all be in the records, so let's see it.
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Macita DePuerco
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Posted - 2008.12.27 02:41:00 -
[1339]
signed
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BigJohnStudd
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Posted - 2008.12.27 10:44:00 -
[1340]
signed
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Antman159
Caldari Super Awesome Villains Forever
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Posted - 2008.12.27 13:19:00 -
[1341]
Signed
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Macita DePuerco
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Posted - 2008.12.27 16:12:00 -
[1342]
To me their is no doubt that if the exploit actually took place to the extent as stated by one of the individuals involved that the market affect has been staggering.
However in trying to think through this and although I signed earlier for transparency, we should honestly take a moment and think about a few things.
If CCP knew about this exploit, from their prospective why announce it now and bring all this drama to their door step.
If the (OP in the link) stated all truths then by pure future alone every single recorded transaction from the recorded estimated time these moon facilities went on line by the exploiters every single Isk handed out and or items purchased would have to be confiscated, this would include all Isk that was given to other players in the course of the 4 years.
The above as I have stated although would be only fair it would also mean the end of Eve, because essentially all would have to start from scratch and I don't mean all involved I mean all players.
Saying that NO you should only punish those directly involved will only stem the perpetrators it will not however stem the effect that the exploited Isk has already done.
Revealing who these Peps are or where and banning said people would lead to a total breakdown of the Eve Universe, lets face it if as stated earlier all things reported by the (OP Link) was true and there was a monopoly within the affects of a total cut off would bring the Eve Industrial Economy to a grinding halt.
It is the same like in the U.S. if the Giants of the Industries were to be closed down due to illegal activities, or a monopoly the effects would be felt world wide.
So what could you actually do because it can not go simply unpunished nor can it be allowed to continue?
The (OP Link) said that he estimates 4 trillion went into the coffers of his corps pockets and that 3 other alliances were involved on just a fair average that would be almost 16 trillion Isk total.
I propose this (I know this is going to sound crazy but hear me out)
1. Don't ban the people involved, name the Alliances that were directly involved.
2. Fine Each Alliance 2 Trillion Isk.
(Each Alliance would be given a reasonable time frame to pay these fines, failure or refusal of the Alliance to pay said fine would result in a per-ma band of the Alliance and the inability of said corps in the Alliance of being able to rejoin another Alliance under their current Corp name and would also result in immediate confiscation of All Assets owned by the Alliance even if the assets were transferred to others)
IE: Alliance (WE RULE) has 4 Corps A, B, C, D they refuse to repay the fine, When the fine was first levied All assets were recorded and logged these assets such as towers, operational equipment etc can not be transferred and would be confiscated by CCP, Corp A,B,C,D Under the (WE RULE) Alliance would be disbanded and corps A,B,C,D can NEVER rejoin nor start another Alliance again.
3. 7 day loss of all sovereignty to said Alliances.
4. These moon-es in question that would have produced these conglomerate resources remove their setting from current locations and re-stage them in totally different system unknown to any one so that the moon is still there but no longer able to produce said resource.
If these Alliance where to comply with this, these alliance's would still be able to operate, they would still be able to function although severely hampered for they would no longer have the constant cash cow used in the monopoly exploit, the financial burden in of it self is staggering to any Alliance and a fair playing field is levied with removal of sovereignty from each Alliance for 7 days giving what would be other Alliances or Corps the opportunity for retaliation.
This would also however bring a temporary slow down in ship production but not a grinding halt, it would stage a level playing field as this monopoly would have created in it's 4 year total in-balance
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KalEl Trask
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Posted - 2008.12.29 17:26:00 -
[1343]
Ban them. No bailouts A free economy will recover with out the industrialist monopoly that may have been in place.
Also didn't want this thread buried to page 3, lest it be swept under the rug!
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Jericho thePure
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.29 23:46:00 -
[1344]
Cheaters suck. ------------------------------------------------- - Sig
"All those moments, will be lost in time like tears in rain...... time to die ..." |
farnly
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Posted - 2009.01.02 03:00:00 -
[1345]
Ban em. to heck with the economy they cheated and thats that. It is after all a game it will survive.
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Generalissimo Apathico
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Posted - 2009.01.03 15:26:00 -
[1346]
Originally by: farnly Ban em. to heck with the economy they cheated and thats that. It is after all a game it will survive.
--------------------------------------------------------- WILL IT?
Does anybody read other posts?, or just this one? CCP is looking for new home! people are closing accounts because of real life money worries CCP is trying to encourage people back into the game with five day free playing! If this cheat is so widespread, and I believe it was can they afford to lose so many accounts.? If they do ban everybody involved will it put an end to game development for the present. Far better to strip them of corp/alliance and isk/skill points, let them start again as newbs.
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Dionisius
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2009.01.05 00:35:00 -
[1347]
Edited by: Dionisius on 05/01/2009 00:35:43 Ok ,
1. I really think the CSM business is a pille of rubbish.
2. Etho was one of the players first screaming for transparency and i am enjoying seeing alts of people that flammed him now asking for the same he did. Despite not knowing you, good one Etho.
3. Funny thing here i would like to see is, how much did CCP lost in RL money, because i would like to extrapolate from those figures the aproximate amount these guys didn't pay to play while i had to.
4. Also knowing the peoples names but more important, what is CCP doing.
5. I said it once and i say it again, the CSM is a pille of rubbish, time to prove the non believers that we are wrong... if you can... wich i seriously doubt.
Oh and click* _____________________________________
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Flaming Lemming
Caldari Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:19:00 -
[1348]
Any more updates yet? Or is it "It's quieted down, sweep it under the rug" time?
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:49:00 -
[1349]
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Dr Westler
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:56:00 -
[1350]
Edited by: Dr Westler on 05/01/2009 21:56:49
Originally by: Flaming Lemming Any more updates yet? Or is it "It's quieted down, sweep it under the rug" time?
I feel like reporting your post tbh.
Not because there is anything wrong with it - just because that way, if lots of people did it, it would be a sign to CCP that we demand they take notice of the content and provide an update on this fiasco.
Yet again, CCP continues to amaze me how their PR can be so appalling. They seem to have no clue when it comes to customer service and in this economic climate they need it more than ever.
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