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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:16:00 -
[1]
Sup MD peeps,
Everyone knows me and loves my insightful posts about market but this is what I wonder now:
Those people who exploited POS stuff surely got many T2 BPO's. Now they are removed from game and making T2 prices go thru roof. Will CCP reseed lost BPO's via old style (Good style!) lottery?
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:20:00 -
[2]
1) Who? 2) I admit that I did wonder about the effects of the bans upon any Tech II BPOs (and the derived products) held by banned accounts, yesterday. 3) I strongly doubt that they'll reseed them via lottery.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:30:00 -
[3]
/me watches the Sell Order forum for a:
"WTA several T2 BPOs. EVEMail CCP Kieron for details."
post...
:D
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Shae Laurel
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Posted - 2008.12.12 10:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kuolematon Sup MD peeps,
Everyone knows me and loves my insightful posts about market but this is what I wonder now:
Those people who exploited POS stuff surely got many T2 BPO's. Now they are removed from game and making T2 prices go thru roof. Will CCP reseed lost BPO's via old style (Good style!) lottery?
As I see it, then it is not CCPs fault that they exploited the POS bug. So they should not be replaced. It would be the same if Player X transported the said T2 BPO's in his shuttle and got blown up by pirates. CCP would not replace the lost BPOs there either.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Joss Sparq 1) Who? 2) I admit that I did wonder about the effects of the bans upon any Tech II BPOs (and the derived products) held by banned accounts, yesterday. 3) I strongly doubt that they'll reseed them via lottery.
1a) I'm shocked you don't know me .. whorum warrior! 2a) Yeah thats the REAL reason for my post 3a) Why not? I have over 500k RP's in certain places waiting for re-initialization of lottery
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:11:00 -
[6]
Jita public auctions with no buyout from a NPC event character would be actually quite interesting to watch _ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Builder Two
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:54:00 -
[7]
Do we know these bans were "forever" bans?
If not, the toons and their bpos have a good chance of coming back eventually.
CCP can be pretty much guaranteed to lose these people as customers (forever) if they sack their accounts and strip them of highly valuable posessions.
Arguments could go either way, I suppose, but I suspect CCP will stay on the side less likely to permanently run people off.
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Ranges
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:59:00 -
[8]
If you'd ask me i'd say no. Afterall, T2 BPO's are an oddity, and i think most people agree that the lottery was a bad idea.
Besides, invention does a rather marvelous job as things are. So i'd guess that CCP would be more interested in the much more dynamic invention system than in restoring an already abolished lottery.
Obviously, i dislike the whole T2 BPO lottery plan, so that's my bias. -Ranges
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Captain Politics
JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.12 11:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Captain Politics on 12/12/2008 11:59:40 The list of tech bpo owned by one of the offendings corps according to http://www.**********.com hmm :
Ship BPOs
* Claymore * Claymore * Eos * Muninn * Sabre * Crow * Manticore
Module BPOs
* 1MN Afterburner II * 100MN Afterburner II * Standard Missile Launcher II * Rocket Launcher II * Large Shield Extender II * Large Shield Booster II * Medium Armor Repairer II * Tracking Disruptor II * Heavy Electron Blaster II * Heavy Ion Blaster II * 220mm Vulcan Autocannon II * 75mm Gatling Rail II * Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II * Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II * Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II * Damage Control II * Radar Backup Array II * Medium Capacitor Battery II * Large Capacitor Battery II * Small Capacitor Booster II * Small Energy Transfer Array II * Miner II
Ammo BPOs
* Barrage M * Barrage M * Hail M * Tremor M * Tremor L * Spike L * Javelin L * Null L * Aurora S * Inferno Javelin Torpedo * Inferno Rage Torpedo * Bane Javelin Torpedo * Bane Rage Torpedo * Paradise Precision Cruise Missile * Hellfire Rage Assault Missile * Foxfire Javelin Rocket
Drone BPOs
* Infiltrator II * Hornet II
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Dave PSI
Haendlergilde
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Posted - 2008.12.12 12:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Builder Two Do we know these bans were "forever" bans?
If not, the toons and their bpos have a good chance of coming back eventually.
CCP can be pretty much guaranteed to lose these people as customers (forever) if they sack their accounts and strip them of highly valuable posessions.
Arguments could go either way, I suppose, but I suspect CCP will stay on the side less likely to permanently run people off.
I rarely doubt the eve community will accept, when known exploiters come back to the game. Also CCP really has no reason to do it, 70 accounts compared to 100,000-200,000 subscribers is nothing which will cause them sleepless nights. Also my feeling is, CCP doesn't like The T2 BPO idea anymore and thanks god for every BPO leaving the game, be it because it is destroyed, pilot is inactive or banned. I am pretty shure we won't see any of these BPO again.
T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
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ShardowRhino
Caldari Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.12.12 12:11:00 -
[11]
good riddence to the bpos and the players. thousands of accounts >70. if ccp lets them back in it will show that cheating in eve means nothing no matter how huge or small. you'll get a slap on the wrist then allowed back in.
sorry but cheating in such a huge way and for so long deserves a ban. hell even a complete deletion of all accounts held by the players involved. all gear,isk and stuff with it.
the fewer t2 bpos out there the better. the less cheaters out there the better.
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Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:20:00 -
[12]
R.I.P. T2 bpo's
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joan arcangel
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: joan arcangel on 12/12/2008 13:28:52
Originally by: Dave PSI I am pretty shure we won't see any of these BPO again.
Hmm don't be to sure on that as if i had been 1 of those guys i would have all my t2 bpo's on a account that had nothing to do with the POS's.. and maybe hold in a alt corp..
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:30:00 -
[14]
Those BPO's are totally outgunned by invention which work on a much larger scale.
So your answer is no. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
moola
Band Of Frogs
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:54:00 -
[15]
Why is it that every time i see a thread like this, i think goon rhetoric, waa waa BoB has too many T2 bpos etc.
Yes T2 bpo's are or will be phased out, but over the course of YEARS, no reseeds, no new bpo's for new ships/mods, no replacement for lost/destroyed (was posted in a dev thread, if i cba id link it) Honestly all you 2007-2008 chars get over it already, save up and buy one if you really want a T2 bpo.
Invention thru sheer volume spanks most T2 bpos, yes a bpo holder can produce cheaper, but most dont they let ivention dictate price levels, unless they are trying to kill the competition and even then its gonna go back up once hes dominating the hub.
to the OP if they bring back the lotto for lost/destroyed bpo's peeps will then ask for more general reseeds (player base increases was driving force for reseeds), a true peoples lotto would be cool for younger and older players, something like reseed lost/destroyed bpo's to active accounts, in other words,no skills, RP stays for invention, and every active account could win.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 14:50:00 -
[16]
Dammit, there went that opportunity. Kassac, this was the other bottleneck I was thinking of. You got dyspro/prom and you have this pile of t2 production (yes, on the "wrong side"). These guys were dumping a lot of their product as t2 items. Probably had some invention too. It's going to take some time for manufacturers to figure out what needs to be produced now.
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Darwin's Market
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:11:00 -
[17]
Originally by: moola Why is it that every time i see a thread like this, i think goon rhetoric, waa waa BoB has too many T2 bpos etc.
Because you fail to understand the argument. It's not jealousy. I don't want a T2 bpo, I want everyone to use invention. So delete the unfair advantage. What did you say? They bought the blueprints so derserve something? No they don't. Nerfs happen, don't like? give stuff.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Darwin's Market
Originally by: moola Why is it that every time i see a thread like this, i think goon rhetoric, waa waa BoB has too many T2 bpos etc.
Because you fail to understand the argument. It's not jealousy. I don't want a T2 bpo, I want everyone to use invention. So delete the unfair advantage. What did you say? They bought the blueprints so derserve something? No they don't. Nerfs happen, don't like? give stuff.
So why do you want everyone to use invention? There's something about "unfairness" in the next sentence, but that doesn't apply to t2 BPOs since they can be fairly owned by anyone.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Dammit, there went that opportunity. Kassac, this was the other bottleneck I was thinking of. You got dyspro/prom and you have this pile of t2 production (yes, on the "wrong side"). These guys were dumping a lot of their product as t2 items. Probably had some invention too. It's going to take some time for manufacturers to figure out what needs to be produced now.
Reprocesses, reprocess, reprocess... everything must melt down now!
Seriously, there are still a number of deals to be had. Just zip around region to region, sometimes even with loss in standings you STILL come out ahead. |
Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 15:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 12/12/2008 15:48:17
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Tasko Pal Dammit, there went that opportunity. Kassac, this was the other bottleneck I was thinking of. You got dyspro/prom and you have this pile of t2 production (yes, on the "wrong side"). These guys were dumping a lot of their product as t2 items. Probably had some invention too. It's going to take some time for manufacturers to figure out what needs to be produced now.
Reprocesses, reprocess, reprocess... everything must melt down now!
Seriously, there are still a number of deals to be had. Just zip around region to region, sometimes even with loss in standings you STILL come out ahead.
I should be giving you isk for that. Going into t2 land for the first time is like learning to breath all over again. I haven't even reprocessed a bit of t2 gear yet, hence my gulf of ignorance. Next step walk and breath - at the same time!
Edit: Still, having said that, there's a good chance there'll be gear moving up in price simply because the supply of that has dried up due to the CCP ban.
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 16:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Confuzer Those BPO's are totally outgunned by invention which work on a much larger scale.
So your answer is no.
Here's my guess for counterexamples.
* Standard Missile Launcher II * Rocket Launcher II * Tracking Disruptor II * 75mm Gatling Rail II * Radar Backup Array II * Medium Capacitor Battery II * Large Capacitor Battery II * Small Energy Transfer Array II * Miner II
My thinking here is that some stuff is just in such low demand that BPOs alone can supply it. That is, even if sold at cost of minerals at perfect ME, the demand can be met by BPOs alone. Having said that, I don't see really weak BPOs (eg, inertial stabs II, armor belts II, claw, raptor).
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testalus rima
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:59:00 -
[22]
its always the same talk. the one's who own bpo's want to keep them the one's who not want them to be remove from game.
t2 bpo's will die by strong t3.
so if ccp want them to be dead they only need to put up a good solution for a t3 bpc invention system.
but this time maybe a bit more future orientated... hangars for frighters asset and map |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.13 04:08:00 -
[23]
For the T2 BPOs to be lost don't they have to be in the personnel hanger or in a solely owned corp, other wise who ever else is in the corp would have access to use them, right?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.13 04:22:00 -
[24]
I have no idea who you are.
It's not clear what they bought though T2 BPO's seem like a reasonable assumption. However, it seems reasonable because they're very hard to track. All you have to do is put them in a can or abandoned ship and let an alt pick them up. So, it's not clear that CCP will end up removing any.
Even if they do remove a bunch of them, they've already said that they will never do a lottery again. So, they'll either be auctioned off by CCP, thus keeping the number the same or just left in the either of banned accounts and invention will have to fill there place.
It doesn't really matter as almost everything is predominantly produced by invention which thus sets the price for it so there won't be a change on that account. The few things it doesn't are very low volume items and thus not particularly important to the economy. If they were important they'd be traded in high enough volume to be produced predominantly by invention....
In other words, nothing will happen; we can lock this thread.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.13 07:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I have no idea who you are.
It's not clear what they bought though T2 BPO's seem like a reasonable assumption. However, it seems reasonable because they're very hard to track. All you have to do is put them in a can or abandoned ship and let an alt pick them up. So, it's not clear that CCP will end up removing any.
Even if they do remove a bunch of them, they've already said that they will never do a lottery again. So, they'll either be auctioned off by CCP, thus keeping the number the same or just left in the either of banned accounts and invention will have to fill there place.
It doesn't really matter as almost everything is predominantly produced by invention which thus sets the price for it so there won't be a change on that account. The few things it doesn't are very low volume items and thus not particularly important to the economy. If they were important they'd be traded in high enough volume to be produced predominantly by invention....
In other words, nothing will happen; we can lock this thread.
In reality they are very easy to track. After they have been unpackaged the first time the BPO can't be repackaged and every one of them has a unique ID number.
So even if a BPO has moved trough the hand of several character it is easy to see where it is and where it has been.
Naturally an apparently legitimate buy/sell operation can break the chain of ownership by the exploiters, but you can be sure that any big isk operations done by the exploiters will be checked very throughly.
So passing it to a alt that "casually" find it in a shuttle hidden at a safespot will not help hiding it.
They could have risked it having it in a ship suicide ganked by a friend/alt (50% chance of loss), acceptable is you are generating limitless wealth. But I suspect any change of hands will be checked under a microscope.
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2008.12.14 04:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shae Laurel As I see it, then it is not CCPs fault that they exploited the POS bug. So they should not be replaced.
I have to disagree here. CCP was notified of the POS bug YEARS ago. It is most definitely their fault for not fixing problems in their code - which they have a history of doing. Knowingly leaving a huge exploit like that out there is tantamount to entrapment and the fairly predictable results thereof have once again hurt the rest of the player base.
/Eefrit
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Jana Tanaka
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.14 07:56:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jana Tanaka on 14/12/2008 07:58:07
Originally by: Eefrit
Originally by: Shae Laurel As I see it, then it is not CCPs fault that they exploited the POS bug. So they should not be replaced.
I have to disagree here. CCP was notified of the POS bug YEARS ago. It is most definitely their fault for not fixing problems in their code - which they have a history of doing. Knowingly leaving a huge exploit like that out there is tantamount to entrapment and the fairly predictable results thereof have once again hurt the rest of the player base.
/Eefrit
Nonsense.
The post you refer to, which can be found quoted on this forum and others, is open to interpretation with regards to the actual bug reported, from the wording it reads much more like a complaint about a lack of perceived proper action in solving a bug that had negative consequences for the people reporting it.
The time period the exploit existed and was used for, has not been disclosed yet and is subject to nothing else but speculation as as well.
Surely spawning advanced moon materials out of nothing is not a bug with immediate negative consequences on those discovering it.
Also your use of the term entrapment is completely distorted. It only applies to situations where a person is induced to engage in criminal activity, by the action of an officer of the law, that this person otherwise would not have engaged in.
These people in question here, were not trapped by a situation deliberately setup by CCP to tempt them into exploiting, their found an unintended bug in the game and willfully exploited it to their advantage.
Guilty as charged.
The more I read some post about this, the more the lack of even a basic common sense for justice and fairness found in some makes me want to puke.
Eve is truly a mirror of reality.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.12.14 15:25:00 -
[28]
To dispell some misconceptions evident above:
- There's no temporary ban from the game. CCP has never had such a thing. You can be temp-banned from the forums but a game ban is permanent. There may have been exceptions over the years for bans that were later shown to be wrong, but in this case that will not happen. All assets are gone forever, you can bank on it.
- Doing some fancy laundering scheme to transfer a BPO to an alt achieves nothing. jetting a can so an alt can pick it up leaves the same amount of trail in the database as a contract does. They can identify every single alt account and transfer of property, doesn't matter how you do it.
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Hostility Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tiirae - There's no temporary ban from the game. CCP has never had such a thing. You can be temp-banned from the forums but a game ban is permanent. There may have been exceptions over the years for bans that were later shown to be wrong, but in this case that will not happen. All assets are gone forever, you can bank on it.
Wrong.
There have been many cases of temporary in-game bans for various infractions. The temporary nature of the bans have had nothing to do with any kind of appeal.
Is this the case now? Don't know, honestly don't care. Just can't stand wrong information being quoted as fact. |
Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2008.12.14 22:07:00 -
[30]
Lol @ kugu being censored. :D |
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