Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 19:58:00 -
[1]
How can we keep ECM as the nr 1 way of crowd control with largest range but at the same time make it less of a ganking tool and making it more intresting?
I think the answer is pretty simple:
When a target is jammed by ECM it can't be affected by any other form of electronic warfare, including webs and points.
What does this mean and what would the results be? This means that:
-One inty attacks another, 1 v 1, and now a falcon can't decloak and turn it into a gank.
-One inty + falcon can't kill a BS by perma jamming it.
-In fleet fights these changes will have little impact on the role of ECM. It will still be valueable to crowd control and reduce incoming dps and to break logistics. In fact it adds more co-op because you need to jam all the other logistics except the one you're downing.
-Falcons won't destroy small gang warfare where they decloak and totally change the table.
-ECM in general will still be used as the most effective way of crowd controling but you won't be able to GANK people with it anymore.
Thoughts? Wouldn't this make Eve a better place? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 20:00:00 -
[2]
Stupid idea.
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 20:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 20:02:10
Originally by: Esmenet Stupid idea.
You like ganking people or why does someone need to be webbed, pointed AND JAMMED? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Ebon Rue
New Found Power
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 20:14:00 -
[4]
I don't care for his idea, or some of the potential problems of application that comes with it, but simply saying "Stupid Idea" is utterly unconstructive and not worth the post.
Keep criticism constructive or don't post at all.
OP: I'm guessing this has happened to you a few times? :-P
So, what goes down if I'm disrupted? They can't web me to keep my cruiser (which can't beat their BS) from flying out of range and warping to safety. So what goes down if I'm webbed? They can't stop me from warping. So what goes down if I'm jammed? Well, since I can't shoot them I just run away.
I think the whole "Big fish eating the smaller fish" scenario has played out for you a few too many times, leaving you as the smaller fish. It's the utter helplessness of the situation that is frustrating you, not so much a flaw in the current state of the game.
My advice? Be the bigger fish.
If two people are prepared enough to set an ambush that you fall into, leaving you utterly helpless, then they should be rewarded with your tears and your kill mail.
Don't fly alone so much? Fit a build to counter this kind of gank? Be the bigger fish?
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 21:18:00 -
[5]
Stupid idea.
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 21:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/12/2008 21:26:52
We'd see an increase in falcons.
'Cause now all he has to do is jam his alt and his own alt is suddenly free of all webs/points.
|
554812
Fromage Frais Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 21:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 20:02:10
Originally by: Esmenet Stupid idea.
why does someone need to be webbed, pointed AND JAMMED?
Wouldnt mind finding that out either :), good idea
|
Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 21:40:00 -
[8]
I think the easiest way to fix the ECM problem is to simply make ECCM more effective. Right now ECCM is practically useless. You just turn it on and hope you have enough sensor strength to not get jammed or break a cycle.
What if ECCM was a more 'active' counter measure. Something like this. When your jammed you activate your ECCM module. It then rolls to see if you break the jamming entirely, shorten the duration, or fail and enjoy the full cycle.
The ECCM will have no effect if it is active before the jamming cycle has started. This will stop it from completly overpowering and nullifing ECM, and becoming the new must have mod, and makes it require some degree of skill and interaction instead of just pressing a button and leaving it at that.
As all the falcon fanbois are so quick to point out Jamming is chance based. Even though that chance is something like 92%, theres still that little chance that it wont land.
This is why i think a chance based ECCM system would be better to counter act it, instead of the current 'improving your odds'.
This would mean that ECM ships keep their ability to kill locks at will, But atleast gives their prey a fighting chance to counter them. This allows the falcon to have its get out of jail card still, with jamming tacklers. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/12/2008 21:26:52
We'd see an increase in falcons.
'Cause now all he has to do is jam his alt and his own alt is suddenly free of all webs/points.
Ding.
-----
Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ebon Rue I don't care for his idea, or some of the potential problems of application that comes with it, but simply saying "Stupid Idea" is utterly unconstructive and not worth the post.
Stupid posts deserve stupid answers.
|
|
Inara Subaka
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/12/2008 21:26:52
We'd see an increase in falcons.
'Cause now all he has to do is jam his alt and his own alt is suddenly free of all webs/points.
QFT. If all I had to do to save a ship from imminent destruction was jam him (with raspberry) I would never even target my opponent with a falcon. Jam myself, wave in local as I warp away, listen to *****ing about how "overpowered falcons are".
|
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 01:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/12/2008 21:26:52
We'd see an increase in falcons.
'Cause now all he has to do is jam his alt and his own alt is suddenly free of all webs/points.
Yes, good point.
The idea fails. Need to come up with something else. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Neverending Story |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:21:00 -
[13]
I can't think of a way to keep them as 'super powered crowd control recons' while also keeping them fair and balanced in a small gang.
Not breaking lock but only disabling high slots as well as a overall strength/range reduction would be a start. Then at least if you somehow do manage to get a tackle, it stays there for a bit.
Btw, my corp is joining amarr militia in 2-4 weeks time.
Keep brainstorming though, it's inevitable that falcons in specific and probably ewar as a whole is going to get changed, and boy does it need it. I'd love to see a 'fun' alternative.
|
Pickle Surprise
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:26:00 -
[14]
This idea fails for the simple reason that it destroys ECM as an offensive weapon, not because it's exploitable. If you can't tackle someone that's jammed, then the only reason for ECM is to stop your own ship being destroyed.
ECM is already counterable. I've been in countless battles where the other side has brought a Falcon, and we've won more often than not. Simply work as a team, and make sure you all have ECCM. A single falcon (which is all they usually bring) can't permajam a whole gang fitting ECCM. And a single interceptor can quickly close the distance, giving other ships a warp in point. The only time a falcon will totally turn the tables is when your side hasn't planned to counter ECM.
Never engage without adequate intel on your enemy. Know how many pilots they have, know what they usually fly, and make sure you get eyes on their ships. If you know they have a pilot in system but can't see where he is, assume he's cloaked in a falcon, and plan your gang accordingly. First thing you do is engage with enough of your fleet that they'll have to use the falcon if it's there, then as soon as it's uncloaked, the inty joins the fight and makes a beeline for the falcon. then whatever else you've held in reserve can warp to the falcon, which the inty will hopefully have tackled. Even if he can jam the inty and whatever else is sent to take care of him, he's not bothering the main force.
I've also seen corpmates take out a well fit falcon solo in a hurricane. He used 2 ECCM modules, because he knew the guy was in a falcon. Don't be afraid to change your fit.
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pickle Surprise
Never engage without adequate intel on your enemy. Know how many pilots they have, know what they usually fly, and make sure you get eyes on their ships. If you know they have a pilot in system but can't see where he is, assume he's cloaked in a falcon, and plan your gang accordingly. First thing you do is engage with enough of your fleet that they'll have to use the falcon if it's there, then as soon as it's uncloaked, the inty joins the fight and makes a beeline for the falcon. then whatever else you've held in reserve can warp to the falcon, which the inty will hopefully have tackled. Even if he can jam the inty and whatever else is sent to take care of him, he's not bothering the main force.
Too bad this isn't realistic in the least. If I waited until I knew exactly what my opponents were flying and exactly how many players they had I'd NEVER get a fight, ever. And it's already a PITA getting fights in eve.
2x ECCM BCs aren't a sweet counter for falcons.
|
Pickle Surprise
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:31:00 -
[16]
Not realistic? It works for us.
|
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:41:00 -
[17]
Post on your main so I can have a look at who 'you' are and what you define 'works' as.
For small gang pvp in low sec (which is what I do) this is unrealistic.
It doesn't work here.
|
Pickle Surprise
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 03:43:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Pickle Surprise on 17/12/2008 03:43:43 Lol, I'm not going to tell you who my main is. I've just told you how we fly.
But I will tell you that most of the PVP we engage in is highsec wars. I can see how it would be more difficult in lowsec.
|
DMF KingBob
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 11:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: DMF KingBob there is no way to counter ecm effectivly with except ecm self
LoL
ECCM = electronic COUNTER counter messures
a counter to a counter, = lots of counting
hm that means it should give the ability that the jammer jamm his self x)
and falcons are hard to figure out and to beat becouse the can warp cloaked with out an drawback!!!
the eccm should give the pilot an effective chance to reflect the ecm maybe supported by an effectiv skill like eccm-interfacing wich gives 20% to the chance of reflection becouse the current state of eccm is very sennsless i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
|
Robert Caldera
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 13:31:00 -
[20]
ECM is good the way it is now...
|
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 14:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 20:02:10
Originally by: Esmenet Stupid idea.
You like ganking people or why does someone need to be webbed, pointed AND JAMMED?
It's an interesting concept, but I think you're approaching it from the wrong direction. In fact for a drone boat, being jammed would be great.
What if webs/points/TDs/Damps were to "interfere" with the ECM modules, effectively decreasing the jamming strength (or increasing sensor strength, however you want to work it)?
|
Dhejay Centrix
Caldari The Wailing Doom
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 14:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
...why does someone need to be webbed, pointed AND JAMMED?
ummm so they can't move, warp or fire back?
|
Dhejay Centrix
Caldari The Wailing Doom
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 14:25:00 -
[23]
Stupid idea. This would make capitals nearly impossible to kill since all you'd have to do is get an alt using ecm and they'd be able to jump away from any opposing fleet.
Also, it just plain sucks.
|
Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 17:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: DMF KingBob i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
i call bull **** on this. NO ship has that ammount of sensor strength, And the few that could potentially do so, are immune to all forms of EW.
just like youve been playing 2 years and have 50 million skill points.
Please stop pulling statistics out of your ass. It does nothing to support your position, and just makes you look like a fool.
Now back on topic, The best way to fix ECM is to change ECCM. The current mechanic of 'improving your odds' is a joke. As i said before, ECM & ECCM should be a much more engaging and interactive form of combat, instead of just alt f1 f2 f3... ECCM should have a chance to break the jamming while its in progress.
Chance based Counter-Counter Measures, For a Chance based Counter-Measure makes sense to me, How bout you folks. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
maralt
Minmatar The seers of truth
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 17:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: DMF KingBob i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strength that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
Your a liar.
|
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Art of War Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 20:47:00 -
[26]
ECM doesn't kill you, needless to say it's somewhat impossible to permajam a battleship or even certain frigates. If you don't like ECM ships fly a ship with good sensor strenght and range with plenty of mid slots for ECCM. It's actually pretty satisfying.
|
Dhejay Centrix
Caldari The Wailing Doom
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 22:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: DMF KingBob i have seen ships with over 200 sensor strengh that getting perma-jammed(cycle on cycle) by an falcon
You're confusing sensor strength with the amount you fail.
|
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.17 22:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Endless Subversion Edited by: Endless Subversion on 16/12/2008 21:26:52
We'd see an increase in falcons.
'Cause now all he has to do is jam his alt and his own alt is suddenly free of all webs/points.
Yes, good point.
The idea fails. Need to come up with something else.
Same player only?
A gang can web, scram and jam by each individually using each mod but a sinlge player cannot. It would make a solo players game harder sure but I thought this game was about teamwork. Most Solo players use faster ships anyway so a scrambler would be all they need.
This gives the player caught off guard by a solo player at least a slim chance if he's fast enough. As it stands, once you're webbed and scrambled, it's pretty much game over since solo players very rarely make the mistake of picking on more experienced players than themselves.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Myung Chul
Gallente Talocan Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 00:47:00 -
[29]
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it makes ecm boats (only 4 real ones in the game) totally useless
|
Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
|
Posted - 2008.12.18 01:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 16/12/2008 20:02:10
Originally by: Esmenet Stupid idea.
You like ganking people or why does someone need to be webbed, pointed AND JAMMED?
SO they don't get away. Your idea sucks.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |