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Ad hok
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:14:00 -
[1]
Hey all, Just beginning to sink into EVE, currently flying Caldari combat stuff, about 1 mil sp. I was just wondering, is it really impractical to switch between the different races/specialize in multiple race's ships, or commonplace? I like Caldari, and I'll probably fly for a while (I have 500k sunk into missile operation so I better for now), but I'd really like to fly some Minmatar or Amarr sometime, without sacrificing too much time backtracking and learning how to fly them.
Thanks for the reply, Ad Hok
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Grista
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Posted - 2008.12.30 06:36:00 -
[2]
Cross training is perfectly fine. At 1M skillpoints, you should start to think about training your learning skills fairly soon, though. Read one of the many guides so you do so in the correct order (Mem/Int/Learning first). I suggest training basic and advanced learning skills to IV before cross training another race. If you wait much past 1.5M skillpoints to train advanced learning skills, you're training very inefficiently.
As Caldari, you'll find it easiest to cross train to Minmatar, who have ships that shield tank and use missiles. That said, if you want to use Lasers or Drones as your primary weapons feel free to go Amarr or Gallente instead. You'll just have to add Armor tanking to your skill list.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.12.30 07:33:00 -
[3]
A million skill points isn't a lot.
But cross training is common place.
First off, keep in mind that the Spaceship Command skill you train to get into a particular ship is a minute part of the training you need to do to use that ship.
You probably want to concentrate on your factions ships for now. Get your weapons, tank and support skills buffed up to the point where you are able to make some serious money - then start playing around with other peoples stuff - unless you have an immediate and specific reason for training someone else's ships.
For example - the Badger is the worst industrial cargo capacity wise (the primary factor in an industrial) - so if you want to go ahead and train Faction Frigate III for some other faction and then train for it's industrial that might be a good thing to do. The Iternon 5 holds the most but I like the Mammoth the best. Bestowers are OK and they're very easy to get into, just buy one ship and keep training the skill to make it better. Mammoths take Minmatar Industrial IV to get into and the Iteron V takes Galente Industrial V to get into.
Support skills will largely transfer to whatever you're flying.
Amarr & Gallente are Armor Tankers Caldari are Shield Tankers Minmatar are both (not on the same ship at the same time)
Now - you can put all kinds of different weapons on various ships - it's just a question of what you're going to get out of them. Here, pay attention to exactly what a particular ship gives it's bonuses for. There's also the capacitor use of the weapons involved. So - while it's best to use the weapons that a particular ship is normally equipped with - you can stick other things on there.
Another thing though - is that some ships such as miners and industrials have their tanks effected more by their role than their faction. Industrials for example usually want either WCS's in their lows or Expanded Cargo Holds - not armor. So by default they're pretty much all Shield Tankers whatever their faction.
There are several factors in weapons that effect how easy a transition is.
Caldari and Galente both use Hybrid guns. Only Minmatar use Artillery Only Amarr use Lasers Every Faction has a Missile Frigate. Every Faction has some ships that are Drone boats the Gallente just have more.
Also, be aware that some skills are relevant to all ships even if it may not seem like they are at first.
Shield Management increases whatever shield you have and Shield Operation increases the speed with which your shield rechargers regardless of whether or not it's a shield tanker. Think about it - it's actually MORE important for an Armor Tanker to have Shield Operation trained up than a Shield tanker since the Armor Tanker guy is NOT going to be carrying a Shield Booster.
Mechanic increases your amount of Armor and Hull upgrades your hull hit points - all good things to do even if you're a shield tanker.
Tactical Shield Manipulation cuts down on the amount of bleed thrugh damage to your armor once your shields get down to 25%. At level V there is no bleed through. It's also required for such things as Invulnerability modules Shield Tankers use but even an Armor tanker will get something out of the delay it creates in how soon his armor starts taking damage. It is a higher ranked skill though so it takes longer to train and if you have hardly any shield at all it's going to go through that last 25% pretty fast so ... it's not as good to have as the other things I just listed but still something to think about.
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.30 08:53:00 -
[4]
You might want to try a bunch of things before settling on one race and role and specializing. It's pretty easy to train T1 frigates and T1 weapons for all races, as well as training a few drones (Gallente specialty), missiles (Caldari), shields (Caldari), armor (Gallente/Amarr), e-war (all), capacitor warfare (amarr) and other skills. You could spend a couple weeks doing that, trying out the different types of frigates against the different types of rats, and see what you like.
I never really did that, myself, and I find myself doing it now, almost a year after starting the character!
............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente Public Funded War Targets
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Posted - 2008.12.30 09:59:00 -
[5]
Before diversifying, I advise getting your support skills up to specs. Many skills improve your performance for all races ships (cap, power, cpu, navigation, generic gunnery and missiles and of course drones). Otherwise you can fly lots of different ships, but will still suck in all of them.
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.30 10:11:00 -
[6]
i actuly recomend to new players to cross train to all races frigs and weapons. that way they get the feeling for what the diffrent races can do and as such can pick the play style that they like best. Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
Mirime Nolwe
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Posted - 2008.12.30 10:16:00 -
[7]
Toshiro GreyHawk wonderful info you wrote there. For any player that is starting now that will be very nice read.
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Mal Lokrano
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.12.30 12:07:00 -
[8]
As a character who can fly both Amarr and Gallente BSs I say train support skills first. It helps that Amarr and Gallente tank similarly so i didn't have to work as hard. But If i were to train caldari i would have to work on sheild skills some more. ____________________________________________ When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always acertain the vintage of the first two. |
Borg Shopper
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Posted - 2008.12.30 20:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Borg Shopper on 30/12/2008 20:43:43 If you enjoy a particular race, or would like to see a hybrid, look at faction ships (very very expensive though!!!!). A shield tanked laser boat (Nightmare) is regarded as one of the strongest mission BSs atm. Some mixes like mine (gallente and amarr) don't really help with any faction ships. Gallente+matari=angel? does, same for gallente+caldari =gurista (& serpentis?), or Caldari+Amarr (sansha)... There are more, but I don't have that memorized...
Just more food for thought, even though it might be faaar into the future, as these are expensive toys...
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Ad hok
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Posted - 2008.12.30 21:35:00 -
[10]
Wow guys, this is great advice, thanks a lot for the help. I know 1M sp isn't a lot at all, but I figure it was good to know before I got too deep. Much better than the WoW forums!
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Jor Talh
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.30 22:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mirime Nolwe Toshiro GreyHawk wonderful info you wrote there. For any player that is starting now that will be very nice read.
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Myra Rodan
Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:56:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Myra Rodan on 31/12/2008 16:57:07 edit: spacing
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Amarr & Gallente are Armor Tankers Caldari are Shield Tankers Minmatar are both (not on the same ship at the same time)
Caldari and Galente both use Hybrid guns. Only Minmatar use Projectiles Only Amarr use Lasers Every Faction has a Missile Frigate. Every Faction has some ships that are Drone boats the Gallente just have more.
Small clarification in italics.
Just a couple of notes I'd add: -Active tanking, whether shield or armor use a lot of the same basic support skills for capacitor maintenance. Most (not all) PvP setups armor tank no matter which race because the Ewar modules are primarily mid slots. -Hybrid turrets, Projectile turrets, and Laser turrets all have the same base skill set. -Most turret ships have more high slots than turret slots, and you can usually fit missile launchers in those extra high slots. -Very few frigates / destroyers have drones, but everything larger than that has at least some.
What all this means is that most skill training spent in the early game will help you out no matter what you end up flying. And if you change your mind, you only have one or two more skills to train.
The other thing to keep in mind after these notes is that especially in the early game, it helps to specialize in one area, than move on. This seems contradictory to my previous summary, but it isn't entirely.
My suggestion would be to pick one frigate you like, from any race, and train the skills to fly that. First train to survive; shield management / shield operation, mechanic / hull upgrades (and these don't have to be at high levels right away). Than train to your chosen ship's strengths. If it gets a bonus to missiles, train primarily skills from the missle launcher group first. If it gets a bonus to lasers, hybrids or projectiles, train gunnery skills first. After that, train to fill the other available slots.
For example, if you choose a rifter (one of my favorites). You'll train to survive, you'll train projectiles / gunnery, than you could train missiles to fill the other high slot, or perhaps ewar for your mid slots. From there, you're nearly ready to fly any other frigate.
Hope this does more to help than confuse
Myra
Selling and delivering boosters anywhere in Eve. |
Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2009.01.01 21:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Mechanic increases your amount of Armor and Hull upgrades your hull hit points - all good things to do even if you're a shield tanker.
small correction,, its the other way around, Mechanic = Hull HP, Hull Upgrades = Armor HP. Still, you want them both maxed out regardless, so small issue.
Otherwise nice concise rookie-friendly post, trashcat approves
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.01.02 03:07:00 -
[14]
Thanks for the corrections ... got a little sloppy there ...
Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Polysynchronicity
Amarr MEK Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.02 08:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Polysynchronicity on 02/01/2009 08:39:13 I've found that the longer you play, the easier it gets to cross-train.
Skills that will serve you very well in any ship:
- Energy Systems Operation - Energy Management They add 5% to your capacitor recharge rate and capacity, respectively.
- Engineering - Electronics These add 5% to your powergrid and CPU, respectively.
- Weapon Upgrades - Advanced Weapon Upgrades (Requires Weapon Upgrades V) These reduce your weapon CPU use and powergrid use, respectively - freeing up room to fit more stuff.
- Navigation Increases speed
- Spaceship Command - Evasive Maneuvering Increases agility
- Warp Drive Operation Reduces capacitor need for warping
- Mechanic Increases hull HP
- Hull Upgrades Increases armor HP
- Shield Management Increases shield HP
- Shield Operation Decreases shield recharge time
- Tactical Shield Manipulation Decreases shield bleed-through
If I'm missing anything, let me know.
Train all of these to Level III, and anything you fly will have a nice set of all-around buffs. After that, if you can't decide what to train, pick one of these and train it to IV or V. You'll have the basic stats of your ship maxed out in no time. ;)
That said, capacitor and fitting skills should go to Level V as soon as you can spare the time for them (Advanced Weapon Upgrades V isn't necessary for most setups, so you can set that aside.). They'll really do a lot to open up your fitting possibilities. ----------
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