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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:31:00 -
[1]
I've built Raid0 arrays with 2 HDs in the past, they were FAST. And now HDs are so cheap I can think about a triple or quadruple array. But at what point I saturate the bus bandwidth so much that it becomes pointless to add another HD?
Or is there a physical barrier where the PC case starts to flex from the sheer torque of the HDs spinning? |
Kyanzes
Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:44:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Kyanzes on 31/12/2008 14:46:57
Well, if you do move big files or capture uncompressed video often then sure, go for RAID0 but frankly what you really need is seek time which is actually worse with striped HDDs. I would rather go with single 10k or 15k HDDs. I personally use 4x10k SCSI HDDs and two 1TB SATA disks, none of them striped. Seriously, go for 15k. Outside of benchmark tests and large file copying there isn't much use for RAID0. Also the possibility of failure is higher.
Alternatively you could use a 1TB or 1.5TB HDD and make a small partition, say 25GB, and put the OS on it. It will have a very nice seek time. Ofc you can use the rest of the HDD as well, it's just that you should make the OS partition small enough so the content will remain at the beginning of the plate. --------------------------------------------- Unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality. |
Gunstar Zero
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:58:00 -
[3]
the issue here is that you are multiplying your risk factor with each disk that you add. Because it only takes one disk failure to nuke the set, each disk you add is another ticking time bomb.
For pure speed - a scratch disk for video processing / something or other it's worthwhile - for anything else it's not.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:03:00 -
[4]
8 OCZ solid state drives in Raid 0, on an Areca 1231 RAID Card (IOP341@800Mhz).
Yummeh. ____________________
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly 8 OCZ solid state drives in Raid 0, on an Areca 1231 RAID Card (IOP341@800Mhz).
Yummeh.
Yes! that's what I'm talking about... wooohooo! |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:42:00 -
[6]
so.. how fast does your comp boot with that setup? Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Last Wolf so.. how fast does your comp boot with that setup?
Faster than mine, that's for sure :
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 16:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Last Wolf so.. how fast does your comp boot with that setup?
It doesn't. I took the images from another forum. The raid card alone is like 700 quid. And no, it wouldn't be anywhere near as fast on any motherboard's integrated raid controller. ____________________
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:20:00 -
[9]
My 10k velociraptor. I plan on getting a second one and using the integrated raid to see what it looks like. ____________________
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The TX
Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:48:00 -
[10]
I've been looking to get some new HDDs and setting them up in RAID.
I do video editing - now in HD! So I have a sensible practical reason to do it.
Some chaps on the ebuyer.com forums have suggested that I get 3x Samsung F1 Spinny Thingies and put them in RAID 5 - so I get safety and speed and a nice lot of storage space. And apparently I can do this without needing a RAID controller card thingy.
So then I have to work out what I wanna do with my 2 existing 150GB 10kRPM Raptor X HDDs- do I stick them in RAID0 and have a really fast OS, or do I take a slight speed hit and use RAID1 for safety, and make a separate sector on the disk to put my OS and important programs, whilst keaving the rest of the disk free for all my crap? And with putting an OS on one part of a disk and using the rest of the disk for programs - isn't there an issue with some programs needing to be on the same disk as the OS, or is that my imagination? - - -
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Holy wall of text TX-Man.
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Ivana Drake
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Posted - 2008.12.31 19:59:00 -
[11]
My 1TB Seagate:
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:10:00 -
[12]
This is from an old Raid 0 (4 years old) I put on my wife's PC. It was made with a pair of barracudas using the old SATA/150 interface. It's old and yet is still faster than my neighbor's new 'gaming pc':
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:31:00 -
[13]
Yes, well disk performance isn't so important on a gaming rig. It's used for level loading times, and obviously booting up the computer, but other than that, it's the CPU and graphics card that are important. ____________________
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Benco97
Gallente Friendly Archaeology Group of Inder
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:42:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Benco97 on 31/12/2008 20:43:50
Samsung that I've had for a LONG time and the oldest part of my computer I think..unless you count my chair.
tada
edit- Hmm.. I can't seem to get it to show the pic so I'll linkify it instead.
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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The TX
Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: The TX I've been looking to get some new HDDs and setting them up in RAID.
I do video editing - now in HD! So I have a sensible practical reason to do it.
Some chaps on the ebuyer.com forums have suggested that I get 3x Samsung F1 Spinny Thingies and put them in RAID 5 - so I get safety and speed and a nice lot of storage space. And apparently I can do this without needing a RAID controller card thingy.
So then I have to work out what I wanna do with my 2 existing 150GB 10kRPM Raptor X HDDs- do I stick them in RAID0 and have a really fast OS, or do I take a slight speed hit and use RAID1 for safety, and make a separate sector on the disk to put my OS and important programs, whilst keaving the rest of the disk free for all my crap? And with putting an OS on one part of a disk and using the rest of the disk for programs - isn't there an issue with some programs needing to be on the same disk as the OS, or is that my imagination?
*cough*
Can anyone help me with the above? Cheers!
- - -
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Holy wall of text TX-Man.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 20:55:00 -
[16]
Put them in raid 0 and back up anything you can't bear to lose. ____________________
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The TX
Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2008.12.31 21:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly Put them in raid 0 and back up anything you can't bear to lose.
The Raptor X's? Put them in RAID 0?
And do you agree with with RAID 5 for the 3x Samsung thingies? Is there anything else I could use instead of the Samsung Thingies? Any decent 1TB disks with more than 7200RPM that you know off that won't cost too much more?
- - -
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Holy wall of text TX-Man.
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ouroboros trading
Gallente Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.12.31 21:11:00 -
[18]
i recently un-raid0'd my PC, backing up is nice and all but i'm way too lazy and have no organisational skills :D and the real world performance for plain gaming and that is frankly not worth the risk (i never actually noticed it :/).
perhaps it's because i was using my motherboards RAID.
430263? That's Numberwang! |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente Zetsubou Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.31 21:37:00 -
[19]
I wouldn't bother raid0'ing the samsungs. They're just for mass storage, right?
A common hard drive setup, and indeed is what I do, is to have your operating system and applications running on a high performance thing like a raptor, SSD or raid array. Then have a much bigger bog-standard drive to store videos, music, etc. That way, you get the improved seek times and transfer speeds where you need it, without spending megabucks on one huge performance drive. ____________________
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2008.12.31 22:11:00 -
[20]
My backup system is flawless (or close to). I had a lot of data loss issues in the past because:
1) My wife downloads and plays every single email attachment received. 2) My son downloads/installs lots of free games of the internet. 3) My Baby daughter loves to bounce PCs repeatedly, to observe its lights.
To solve the issue, I setup a home NAS out of an old PC that I was going to throw away. It had an 80gb drive where I installed the OS, then I added 2 x 500GB SATAs for a 1Tb array. On some of my home's PCs I mapped the "my documents" folder to the NAS. For others (since my LAN is still slow at 100Mbps) I placed a Perl script on the NAS that runs daily (crontab) and mounts/backups/dismounts the PCs "my documents" folders.
I'm still vulnerable if a PC gets infected with a pretty nasty virus and goes beserk deleting stuff. It will also delete the stuff on the NAS. My plan for that is to get another SATA, a 1 terra one, and mount it on the NAS but locally (no PC will access it through the LAN). Then I can make another Perl script to backup the NAS main array into the NAS backup HD. Call me paranoid, but I'm even thinking about repositioning the NAS rig to the attic. That way, if somebody brakes in and steals the PCs I will still get to keep my children pics and videos which are not replaceable and have an infinite sentimental value.
That said, for my new rig build I wan't nothing else than sheer speeeeed. I'm not worried about disk failures, I want it to be FAST (within budget of course). Instead of getting a fast disk of around $150 USD, I prefer to get 4 or 5 cheapo disks @ $35 USD ea and make a killer raid 0 array.
I've never built a raid 0 bigger than 2 disks, ergo I have no idea if it keeps getting faster after that. I always have the option of testing the rig, and sell any unused disks on ebay if I find that the performance doesn't increase a lot. |
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The TX
Gallente Pulsar Combat Supplies Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.01.01 01:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly I wouldn't bother raid0'ing the samsungs. They're just for mass storage, right?
A common hard drive setup, and indeed is what I do, is to have your operating system and applications running on a high performance thing like a raptor, SSD or raid array. Then have a much bigger bog-standard drive to store videos, music, etc. That way, you get the improved seek times and transfer speeds where you need it, without spending megabucks on one huge performance drive.
Not mass storage as much as mass active storage - large video files moving from camera to computer, then editing in Adobe Premiere, and for that, I'd be needing to look at really performance from my storage space.
- - -
Originally by: Slade Trillgon Holy wall of text TX-Man.
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Gunstar Zero
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.01 14:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The TX I've been looking to get some new HDDs and setting them up in RAID.
I do video editing - now in HD! So I have a sensible practical reason to do it.
Some chaps on the ebuyer.com forums have suggested that I get 3x Samsung F1 Spinny Thingies and put them in RAID 5 - so I get safety and speed and a nice lot of storage space. And apparently I can do this without needing a RAID controller card thingy.
So then I have to work out what I wanna do with my 2 existing 150GB 10kRPM Raptor X HDDs- do I stick them in RAID0 and have a really fast OS, or do I take a slight speed hit and use RAID1 for safety, and make a separate sector on the disk to put my OS and important programs, whilst keaving the rest of the disk free for all my crap? And with putting an OS on one part of a disk and using the rest of the disk for programs - isn't there an issue with some programs needing to be on the same disk as the OS, or is that my imagination?
You've got a few options - but looking at what you need to achieve I think it can be split as follow.
1) Reliable OS 2) Reliable Storage 3) Fast Disk for video processing.
In an ideal world I'd split as follows
1) OS - RAID1. Decent performance and reliability, a little bit slower on writes than reads but none too shabby all the same. Your storage space is limited, but you don't need that much of it. Your pair of raptors would be ideal for this.
2) Storage - RAID5 or 6 are nice for large volumes of reliable storage in which one or more (R6) of your disks can fail completely and leave you with a functioning volume. Read performance is good, write performance isn't that great. The western digital enterrpise range are nice for these.
3) Working / Scratch disk space - this is where RAID0 comes into it's own, it's working drive space and it doesn't matter if it fails particularly. A pair of velociraptors would give you the speed and space you need for this kind of work ... at a price. Failing that again the WD enterprise range are a good bet.
However, with the costs of a decent raid controller factored in and the sheer number of drives we're talking about, perhaps the best option is to buy a decent disk for your OS, a nice big disk for storage, and use your raptors in R0 for scratch. With that I'd buy a pair of ext USB disks for backups and alternate nightly.
Depends how much money you want to throw at it / how much the stuff really matters to you.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.01 16:30:00 -
[23]
I recommend avoiding Software Raid at all costs as an OS corruption could possibly mean the loss of the Raids as well. Also I have found that the Intel Matrix Raid system to be really weak and buggy, also recommend against using that.
If you really need to run Raid either use a third party Raid controller (not Intel, obviously) and an add-in card if possible. Do take into account that Raid increases read/write speeds but also increases the possibility of data loss due to defect HD, unless Raid5 is used. If you can help it avoid Raid full stop, otherwise take precautions.
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