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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Whitehound
68
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jon Taggart wrote:This philosophy was adequate when we could rely on outside sources for minerals via bots and drone alloys, but it is no longer sufficient.
As of 2009 - fairly old data, sorry about that - 40% of the minerals of this game came from mission loot.
Gone.
In a 2012 Inferno interview, CCP Soundwave said that 40% of the minerals came from Drone alloys.
Gone. You first learn how to play this game without any bots. We do not need them, we do not want them and we want to play this game the way it was intended. So stop thinking that this game could not work without bots. Just shut up and mine. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2227
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
The problem with mining isn't that it's boring or an afk activity. The problem is that that is all it is. The variation in the different mining activities should be more, than just a difference in the time it takes to cycle your modules. Playing actively while mining provides additional safety from gankers, but doesn't benefit the mining part in any way. All you do is watch lights on your screen while you try to think of ways to pass the time. The only fix CCP needs to do is improve on the active mining part of the game and increase the variety of the different types of mining.
These issues aren't a problem with just mining though. Exploration profession sites also suffer from similar issues. The only difference between the professions is that it takes a different module(codebreaker, salvager or analyzer) to hack the available cans, that are just floating in space. The gameplay of those professions is basicly reduced to activating the module on a can, waiting for 5 seconds and getting your random loot drop from the mystery box. Not exactly riveting gameplay or feels nothing like hacking or archeology should feel. CCP hasn't exactly done anything to improve the gameplay of their older features in a long time and there really is a ton of room for improvement on many fronts. |
TkAlligator38
Kotodama Corp
5
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
I sold my PvPer a few months ago, in january I believe, to settle for a pair of mining characters instead. I liked the idea of not having to do much, while earning ISK. This was before I knew it was going to get a lot more lucrative around this time. I guess I made the right choice.
It's fine as it is. Make mining too ''enjoyable'' and everyone and their granny are going to start doing it. I'd be opposed to that. Keep it for those who can bear to stand it, that's also partially the reason of it being lucrative, after all.
I mine a few hours a day, for months on a row. Here's what I'd like to see:
- No increase in Hulk survivability. It's working as intended. - No new mining system to make it ''fun''. I'd rather put minimal effort into earning ISK, rather than being forced to keep hitting buttons, like in PvE, which, to me, is comparable in its boring nature. |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
For me, mining is fine as it is. Though I'm not a mining-only player.
What I wouldn't want would be some mini-game breaking my immersion.
Perhaps a control display which needed constant attention?
Like having a couple of variables (laser strength, laser width, laser penetrating capability, laser temperature and so on). You would need to monitor and shift these during the mining cycle, while the game randomly changes outside (asteroid) parameters.
If you fall out of basic parameters, the mining cycle will stop.
If you are within perfect parameters the mining yield will be better.
>> no afk mining and feeling like a mining engineer |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
537
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
3 years ago they had a devblog with awesome mining changes, but it never happened. |
Himnos Altar
Angry Hobos Interstellar Hobos
12
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:For me, mining is fine as it is. Though I'm not a mining-only player. What I wouldn't want would be some mini-game breaking my immersion. Perhaps a control display which needed constant attention? Like having a couple of variables (laser strength, laser width, laser penetrating capability, laser temperature and so on). You would need to monitor and shift these during the mining cycle, while the game randomly changes outside (asteroid) parameters. If you fall out of basic parameters, the mining cycle will stop. If you are within perfect parameters the mining yield will be better. >> no afk mining and feeling like a mining engineer
if it DID change like that, you could forget about keeping a weather eye out for gankers, lol......
and low sec mining would be 20x more dangerous, lol....
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Joran Dravius
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Tbh, mining is one of the few professions where you can socialize with your friends ingame, and earning some money with it. Yes, mining itself is boring, no denying that. But the inactivity that mining requires of you, frees your time to do other stuff, like chatting with friends, checking corpstuff or mails etc. Most other stuff in EVE needs your full attention, making it hard to chat & do something at the same time, mining doesn't suffer from this. People still type? Why not just use voice chat? You can juggle flaming torches and talk at the same time, assuming you're a circus performer. Your inability to adapt to the existence of broadband internet is no reason to keep mining as an activity that only bots and masochists do. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
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Posted - 2012.04.15 10:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
There should be new types of mining to give players options. If players want to carry on as they do now, scraping rocks with their mining lasers in the existing belts while semi-afk, ok. If players want something a little more involving and active (and profitable), then there should be new opportunities and mechanics added to the game which would provide that.
Don't get rid of belt mining, but provide new alternatives to it.
MotherMoon wrote:3 years ago they had a devblog with awesome mining changes, but it never happened.
Link? |
betoli
Morior Invictus. KRYSIS.
20
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:There should be new types of mining to give players options. If players want to carry on as they do now, scraping rocks with their mining lasers in the existing belts while semi-afk, ok. If players want something a little more involving and active (and profitable), then there should be new opportunities and mechanics added to the game which would provide that. Don't get rid of belt mining, but provide new alternatives to it. MotherMoon wrote:3 years ago they had a devblog with awesome mining changes, but it never happened. Link?
Currently prices are probably where they should be, to make current mining competitive. The problem is that there is no development path for miners - after 3 months you have a maxed out pilot and a can't be beaten setup. In contrast mission running can benefit from better skills/ships - probably for up to about 18 months.
The answer i think, as you say, is to augment the current mining game, augmenting it with new stuff, and skill training that goes out to about 2 years. But in order to do that you need to reduce mining yields on a current maxed out hulk pilot.
So....
+ nerf current yields by 3 times accross the board on al mining platforms.
+ add new mining method that delivers - 2x hulk yield after a further 6 months training, and 500M investment - 3x after 12 months, and 1B investment - 4x after 2 yrs training and 2B investment.
+ make sure that mining platforms/ships provide such that - lowsec pays 1.8x highsec for a skilled player (including losses) - 0.0 pays 2.5x highsec for a skilled player (including losses)
+ try to make the new method more *challenging* in terms of risk/attention/strategy/skill |
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Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
9
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Posted - 2012.04.15 11:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Remove meta drops from rats make new meta 1-4 item bpc drops that use mins as the primary component. Nothing player producible should drop from a rat ever. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
156
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Posted - 2012.04.15 17:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Me mining: Fly covetor, lock rocks, set 6 minute timer on ipod, minimize eve, watch tv show/read/do other stuff on internet. When timer goes off, jettison cargo, alt scoops can, lock more rocks if needed/shot more rocks, set timer again.
The setup is cheap enough that I don't really care if I do get ganked due to lack of attention. |
Elsbeth Taron
Elsbeth Taron Corporation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.15 19:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
How about asteroid belts contain only low lvl roids, such as veldspar, scordite, etc.. Anyone wanting to mine the higher grade/profit stuff will need to probe for it? That'll give you something else to do. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
102
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Posted - 2012.04.15 20:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Problem with mining is that miners them selves have very few options in a way of competing from the best mineral sources, nor is there a cost factor in mining aside from losing an occasional hulk or veld crystals and the initial costs involved. Well you have the tax from station refineries but that can hardly be called a cost factor when it's equal for everyone involved. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1415
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Posted - 2012.04.15 20:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jon Taggart wrote:Recent and upcoming changes have shed light on an issue few have ever really cared about, but now it's time to have a serious discussion about it.
The bots, the drones, Pax Amarria, and the removal of Meta 0 loot from missions have turned Mining into one of the most integral aspects of this game's economy.
Right up until there, it was a good post.
****, I'll even like it because that is spot on.
Jon Taggart wrote:People can skirt around the issue all they want by proposing buffs to the Hulk's tankability or making mining more profitable, but the end result stays the same. Mining is bar-none the single most boring activity in this game. It is also the only profession in this game that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. Profit alone will eventually prove insufficient to persuade players to continue mining for the long term. When CCP has to ask its players what other games they play while mining to pass the time, something needs to be adjusted. You want cheaper prices? You want more targets to pop and gank? Make mining fun and you can have all of this and more. Make it dynamic. Make it involving. Make it enjoyable. Make it optional. Give players a choice. Consider a Planetary Interaction method of mining. Star Wars Galaxies managed just fine by allowing players to choose active harvesting vs. relying on less-efficient extractors, so why can't EVE? The system is already in place. Consider something at least. Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way. Please CCP, this relic needs a makeover.
I have mixed feelings about this.
Why not PI instead of mining?
Why sit on your ass and mine offline via PI when you can mine and double your mineral output per hour...
Will this Asteroid Interaction manifest in the game for PvPers to blob?
If not, then your basically proposing a mineral faucet vis a vis untouchable PI.... |
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.04.16 00:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
I don't think alot of the posters realize how big a deal its going to be to get people mining - when you lose probably at least half, if not more of your mineral sources where are all the minerals going to come from?
And if mining is going to be more "profitable" where is that profit going to come from?
If mining rates per person stay the same, it means that that "profit" is going to come from US. In other words, everything is going to go up in price, and keep going up until we reach an equilibrium. I really don't want to see even higher prices.
Making mining more "fun" means more people will do it, which will improve the supply - which will push prices down. |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
42
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Posted - 2012.04.16 00:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
HELIC0N ONE wrote:MotherMoon wrote:3 years ago they had a devblog with awesome mining changes, but it never happened. Link? Two possibilities: a rift in spacetime opens GÇô a glimpse into one possible future for asteroid belts nullsec development: design goals |
Elsbeth Taron
Elsbeth Taron Corporation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.16 12:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cobalt Rookits wrote: If mining rates per person stay the same, it means that that "profit" is going to come from US. In other words, everything is going to go up in price, and keep going up until we reach an equilibrium. I really don't want to see even higher prices.
I'm thinking that may encourage more people to get into industry, as buying the finished product will become prohibitively expensive. Why pay when you can build? More industrial alts, perhaps? |
betoli
Morior Invictus. KRYSIS.
20
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Posted - 2012.04.16 12:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Two possibilities: a rift in spacetime opens GÇô a glimpse into one possible future for asteroid belts [/quote]
" Asteroid belts are the lifeblood of Eve and of vital importance to us all."
Actual Attention and love: zero
meh |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
42
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Posted - 2012.04.16 15:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
betoli wrote:" Asteroid belts are the lifeblood of Eve and of vital importance to us all." Actual Attention and love: zero meh I'm taking a cautiously optimistic view of the drone poo / meta 0 nerfs, together with the anti-bot crusade. We'll see how it all pans out, but at least this is a start towards paying off several years worth of neglect-debt. I'd personally love to see comet mining replace moon harvesting... something needs to be done about the passive ISK printing abilities of megalliances. |
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dragonwrath2k8
Freedom-Technologies The Jagged Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Many of you are calling mining boring, just to turn around and say you don't mine
I for one enjoy mining... It means I can relax (to a point, being in null-sec) and chat with corpies. Mining provides a minimally distracting socialization opportunity, people come up with some funny **** when they're watching their lasers cycle, and it can be done easily while under the influence
How many of you seriously believe that a miner does nothing but mine? Someone mentioned, you max your mining skills out in months. That means you can make enough in a half dozen hours of play to replace your ship, even if it is a pimp tanked hulk
You think people mine just to have a lot of minerals or isk?
they mine to fuel other EVE ambitions, like industry (maybe buying nice BPO's) or PVP (filling their hanger with the ships they enjoy flying when red nasties come near. It's moderately rude to assume that everyone who mines finds it boring. My hulk pops rocks too fast for me to get bored
If you seriously think that it's wrong for mining to be the primary influx of minerals into this sandbox, maybe you should go play a less in-depth game, I hear blizzard is still in business
All I can say to OP, is if you don't like mining, DON'T MINE. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
634
|
Posted - 2012.04.16 21:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cobalt Rookits wrote: Making mining more "fun" means more people will do it, which will improve the supply - which will push prices down.
Not neccisarily. Boring non-interactive mining means one guy with four, five, six accounts can do what would other wise be done by four, five, six people. These three extra accounts are "slaves", they demand no profits, demand no voice in the corp, nothing. They're zombies. They take away potential game play from other players.
Those other players, who don't want to mine, because the profitability is being consumed by Mr Slave Owner will instead go shoot rats or do something else, and produce an oversupply some where else.
Suppose the non-interactive mining, like we have today gave 75% less yeild than current, and a more active method produced 50% more than current yeilds. Now it is worth a solo miner to pay someone to watch his back so he can focus on the interactive aspect. |
Fish Hunter
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.04.17 00:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Agree, more interactive mining would be awesome, increased yields with increased effort (attention) other than just timing lasers according to how much is left in the asteroid. Why not increase the density of tritanium, pyerite, mexallon, and isogen in lowsec and nullsec ores. As of now all the highest concentration ores of these minerals are found in all security bands. Why shouldn't lowsec contain +25% variants and nullsec contain +50% variants of ores for these minerals, or something of that nature. I'm sure this has been suggested before.
For that matter why is it that only zydrine and megacyte are outside of highsec and even then you can find grav sites in highsec with zydrine, and grav sites with megacyte in lowsec. More seperation between the zones would be beneficial. Move isogen and nocxium to lowsec and zydrine to nullsec. And throw in some 2 x dense mineral sources from what we have now into lowsec that are hard to find & obtain (need special equipment & skills, and are low volume so mining barges/exhumers aren't the only option)
just some thoughts :)
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Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian Pinked
66
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Posted - 2012.04.17 04:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:For me, mining is fine as it is. Though I'm not a mining-only player. What I wouldn't want would be some mini-game breaking my immersion. Perhaps a control display which needed constant attention? Like having a couple of variables (laser strength, laser width, laser penetrating capability, laser temperature and so on). You would need to monitor and shift these during the mining cycle, while the game randomly changes outside (asteroid) parameters. If you fall out of basic parameters, the mining cycle will stop. If you are within perfect parameters the mining yield will be better. >> no afk mining and feeling like a mining engineer
I like the feel of when I monitor my stuffs, it mines my stuffs better. Also I like being an engineer I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
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