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Dahlia Houghton
The Tetragrammaton Council
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Posted - 2009.01.04 13:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: Dahlia Houghton
No a Dominix can change its damage type 100%. Good day to you sir.
+1 amirite?
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.04 14:16:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 04/01/2009 14:16:03
Originally by: Ghoest Since I said "essentially."
An 80% change is damage type will mean on average more than 90% of total damage.
Everything is have said so far is correct and it has been more useful than your input.
You continue to be wrong. My statement is not "essentially" incorrect because you think something else gives "almost" as good a result. Dahlia at least has the excuse that his/her command of the english language is rather poor. From what I have seen of you so far, you do not have this excuse.
An 80% change is damage type in no way translates to "more then 90% of total damage". If you think it does, please give an example using your wizardry math.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:07:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ghoest on 04/01/2009 22:08:02 You are essentially wrong because make specific esoteric points that mislead people with respect to the total picture.
As for the math. Ill be generous and say projectiles(arty for my purposes) do 40% of the damage on a phoon. ~1/2 that damage can be changed to suit the target(its really averages out to more than that.) Then we can say the left over damage does 1/2 of what the idea damage does.
90% Its probably higher than 90% on average.
Go away now. You cant do math and youre misleading people with repect to the question.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.04 23:20:00 -
[34]
No, you're wrong. No no, YOU sir are wrong. No, sir, I believe it is you who are IN FACT wrong...
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Erika Bronz
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Posted - 2009.01.05 01:03:00 -
[35]
Pardon me for asking, but wont missiles do less effective damage due to target speed, no matter how many painters you got? Unless you sacrifice drone damage for webbing drones or something, wich in case will lower dps anyway. Are we talking EFT damage or INGAME damage in this thread? Doesn't matter if you do 10 00 dps if a parked car is the only thing you wil give that kind of damage. Parked cars aren't that common in missions. Out of suggested ships in this thread I'd say the Phoon is the better, at least when Rudolph von Schnellfahrer pilots the target. If I'm wrong, feel free to flame me.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.05 03:35:00 -
[36]
With decent skills and 1 painter youll cap out on damage when you shoot BSs. If you put on 2 or 3 rigors youll be popping cruisers fast.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.05 03:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Erika Bronz Pardon me for asking, but wont missiles do less effective damage due to target speed, no matter how many painters you got?
Target painters have a far greater effect on heavy missile damage vs frigates than a webifier. Make of that what you will.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.05 03:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dahlia Houghton No a Dominix can change its damage type 100%. Good day to you sir.
Are you fitting a Dominix with missile launchers? Or perhaps you're contemplating running missions in a Dominix without any DPS apart from its drones?
Missile launchers are the only weapon system which can change its damage type 100%. Projectile weapons always have a kinetic component to their damage, the explosive/thermal/EM damage being an extra component. Hybrid weapons always deal Kin/Therm - the different ammo types only serve to produce more damage at closer ranges, or less damage at further ranges.
So unless you're working with missile launcher or no weapons system at all on the Dominix, I don't see how you can claim that the Dominix can change its damage type "100%"
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Chris Tao
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Posted - 2009.01.05 05:05:00 -
[39]
Faction fit + best implants =
Kronos 725dps and 0.0403 tracking 36+30km Paladin = 925 dps and 0.04241 33+25km Nightmare = 925 dps and 0.05832 33+25km CNR = 1235dps using 2 target painters and 2x hyd I and 1x Fulle gives you 49.8km
No drones. fitted for support only ;)
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.05 09:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Chris Tao Faction fit + best implants =
Kronos 725dps and 0.0403 tracking 36+30km Paladin = 925 dps and 0.04241 33+25km Nightmare = 925 dps and 0.05832 33+25km CNR = 1235dps using 2 target painters and 2x hyd I and 1x Fulle gives you 49.8km
No drones. fitted for support only ;)
If you're fitting for "support only" your optimals are too short. With optimal scripts, suitable implants, a tank not meant to last under mass aggro very long, and my skills a faction fit Kronos 822 @ 54km Nightmare 993 @ 43km.
Would be more if you go really light on tank.
Using torps on the CNR is questionable imo, the Golems bonuses nicely help deliver more of the torps potential damage, at the cost of a bit of range. Not to mention the ammo savings, which are about 1,2-1,3 mil for AE, for example.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.05 09:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 04/01/2009 22:08:02 You are essentially wrong because make specific esoteric points that mislead people with respect to the total picture.
As for the math. Ill be generous and say projectiles(arty for my purposes) do 40% of the damage on a phoon. ~1/2 that damage can be changed to suit the target(its really averages out to more than that.) Then we can say the left over damage does 1/2 of what the idea damage does.
90% Its probably higher than 90% on average.
Go away now. You cant do math and youre misleading people with repect to the question.
Hah. Esoteric? Damage types and rat resistances are basic knowledge that *every* missionrunner who wants to improve performance should grasp, especially before trying to give advice on forums.
I'm certainly not the one misleading people here. That would be you. If you want to be effective in Lvl4's against rats other then Angels, you should stay the heck away from Minmatar, as none of their ships are up to par. And if you want to get the best average results against all rats from a single ship, you should stick with missiles. That's BASIC knowledge that has been true for as long as I've been playing the game. It still is, even with the nerf in QR.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.05 13:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 04/01/2009 22:08:02 You are essentially wrong because make specific esoteric points that mislead people with respect to the total picture.
As for the math. Ill be generous and say projectiles(arty for my purposes) do 40% of the damage on a phoon. ~1/2 that damage can be changed to suit the target(its really averages out to more than that.) Then we can say the left over damage does 1/2 of what the idea damage does.
90% Its probably higher than 90% on average.
Go away now. You cant do math and youre misleading people with repect to the question.
Hah. Esoteric? Damage types and rat resistances are basic knowledge that *every* missionrunner who wants to improve performance should grasp, especially before trying to give advice on forums.
I'm certainly not the one misleading people here. That would be you. If you want to be effective in Lvl4's against rats other then Angels, you should stay the heck away from Minmatar, as none of their ships are up to par. And if you want to get the best average results against all rats from a single ship, you should stick with missiles. That's BASIC knowledge that has been true for as long as I've been playing the game. It still is, even with the nerf in QR.
Noob - against angels a a pure DPS typhoon will do great damage.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.01.05 13:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 04/01/2009 22:08:02 You are essentially wrong because make specific esoteric points that mislead people with respect to the total picture.
As for the math. Ill be generous and say projectiles(arty for my purposes) do 40% of the damage on a phoon. ~1/2 that damage can be changed to suit the target(its really averages out to more than that.) Then we can say the left over damage does 1/2 of what the idea damage does.
90% Its probably higher than 90% on average.
Go away now. You cant do math and youre misleading people with repect to the question.
One of the more remarkable displays of pigheadedness I've ever seen. Do you really think you can take a statement that is flat out wrong, add a couple of 'almost's and 'essentially's, wrap it all in some big-sounding but actually meaningless sentences, and have people actually believe you?
Missiles boats can make 100% of their damage hit the lowest resists on any rat in the game, without losing DPS. No other weapon type can do that. This is not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.
I just don't get why people can't just say 'oh yeah, i'd missed that point, you're right.', instead of stubbornly sticking to an idea that's obviously wrong, post after post after post.
You will find that people will respect you more for admitting your mistakes than they will for always being right. Especially when you aren't even right to begin with.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.05 13:49:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/01/2009 13:50:51
Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Qui Shon If you want to be effective in Lvl4's against rats other then Angels, you should stay the heck away from Minmatar, as none of their ships are up to par.
Noob - against angels a a pure DPS typhoon will do great damage.
lrn2read noob.
Perhaps that's a language you can understand? Or do I need to underline the key words you apparently missed, you troll.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.05 14:42:00 -
[45]
Here's the Nightmare setup for pure damage that I've used. It works very well but is heavy on the cap skills and implants (CR8 and CC8) to run for extended periods. However, that's rarely the case when you kill BS's in 3 or 4 shots .
Set your "Keep At Range" button distance to your optimal (30ish km if I remember correctly for this setup).
1. Launch the drones and tell them to guard your buddy if he's tanking. 2. Turn on the afterburner and leave it on. 3. Target the bad guy and select to keep him at range. 4. Open fire. 5. Go to step 3 and repeat until no more red crosses
Angels seem to be the most resistant to this setup but still die quite fast to it.
[Nightmare, 1247 DPS, 7140 Volley Damage] Beta Reactor Control: Reaction Control I Local Hull Conversion Nanofiber Structure I Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed 100MN Afterburner II
Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Energy Collision Accelerator I Energy Metastasis Adjuster I Energy Ambit Extension I
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
This is assuming you have the skills for such a beast. Your mileage may vary. ---
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.05 16:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tiirae
Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 04/01/2009 22:08:02 You are essentially wrong because make specific esoteric points that mislead people with respect to the total picture.
As for the math. Ill be generous and say projectiles(arty for my purposes) do 40% of the damage on a phoon. ~1/2 that damage can be changed to suit the target(its really averages out to more than that.) Then we can say the left over damage does 1/2 of what the idea damage does.
90% Its probably higher than 90% on average.
Go away now. You cant do math and youre misleading people with repect to the question.
One of the more remarkable displays of pigheadedness I've ever seen. Do you really think you can take a statement that is flat out wrong, add a couple of 'almost's and 'essentially's, wrap it all in some big-sounding but actually meaningless sentences, and have people actually believe you?
Missiles boats can make 100% of their damage hit the lowest resists on any rat in the game, without losing DPS. No other weapon type can do that. This is not an opinion, it's a statement of fact.
I just don't get why people can't just say 'oh yeah, i'd missed that point, you're right.', instead of stubbornly sticking to an idea that's obviously wrong, post after post after post.
You will find that people will respect you more for admitting your mistakes than they will for always being right. Especially when you aren't even right to begin with.
Hi 2 u alt(I suspect)
Actually I never said anything flat out wrong(except that very last unrelated post where I missed a word he said).
The "essentially" caveat was used in my very first statement diagreeing with him.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.05 16:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/01/2009 13:50:51
Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Qui Shon If you want to be effective in Lvl4's against rats other then Angels, you should stay the heck away from Minmatar, as none of their ships are up to par.
Noob - against angels a a pure DPS typhoon will do great damage.
You got me there. I misread your last comment.
Athough I still say a Phoon does fine damage against other races and stacks up well to the CNR.
lrn2read noob.
Perhaps that's a language you can understand? Or do I need to underline the key words you apparently missed, you troll.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Allahs Warrior
Gallente Justified Hedonism And Dualism
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Posted - 2009.01.05 17:13:00 -
[48]
Caldari can't do 100% DPS to anything since the QR patch anyway, so idk what he's talking about 100% DPS with a missile ship anyway. Unless you're torping a sieged dread.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.05 18:49:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/01/2009 18:57:10
Originally by: Allahs Warrior Caldari can't do 100% DPS to anything since the QR patch anyway, so idk what he's talking about 100% DPS with a missile ship anyway. Unless you're torping a sieged dread.
I two volley Gallente Navy Megathrons every time, I don't think it could get much better then that? Sansha, Blood, Drones, all pop very fast.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think many have *****ed more about the missile nerf on torps for PvE then me (on this forum) but the problems arise with the small and fast races, like Angels, not the fat and slow like Gallente.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.05 18:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ghoest
Actually I never said anything flat out wrong
Yes, you did. If I state can A is the only one filled to 100%, can B being filled to 80% does not make my statement "essentially incorrect". Can B is actually showing the opposite, that at least regarding the set of cans A and B, my statement is correct.
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eXtas
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.06 15:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Chris Tao Faction fit + best implants =
Kronos 725dps and 0.0403 tracking 36+30km Paladin = 925 dps and 0.04241 33+25km Nightmare = 925 dps and 0.05832 33+25km CNR = 1235dps using 2 target painters and 2x hyd I and 1x Fulle gives you 49.8km
No drones. fitted for support only ;)
you left out the amarr ships fitted with mega pulse :) they do 1300+ dps from guns.. you say short range guns wont have the range? baddon have 45km optimal with scorch, if that isnt enough for you add some tracking mods and you get over 60 km optimal.. 100ish on apoc for lolz
and tracking will be a lot beter then with tach... but you lose the yber alpha..
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.01.06 15:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: eXtas
you left out the amarr ships fitted with mega pulse :) they do 1300+ dps from guns.. you say short range guns wont have the range? baddon have 45km optimal with scorch, if that isnt enough for you add some tracking mods and you get over 60 km optimal.. 100ish on apoc for lolz
and tracking will be a lot beter then with tach... but you lose the yber alpha..
1300? No they don't. Please don't bring in useless numbers from overloaded guns, it has little bearing on mission performance.
Furthermore, Tach is superior to Pulse in vast majority of missions, and exceeds Pulse dps before even 25km. http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/d991136f21.jpg
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Useless alt
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Posted - 2009.01.06 15:41:00 -
[53]
A Golem with maxed marauder skills and maxed T2 torp skills, all the damage mods that you can afford and of course a few target painters...
As you do not care about damage all little bits help, the ability to do any type of damage you like and the joys of switching from precision to high damage ammo will make this an all round lovely ship to use.
If you can always plug your head with the best damage mod implants you can afford. Oh add some rigs for damage as well again all little bits help.
Once you can and if you feel like it you could always upgrade the damage mods and target painters for better versions but I doubt you will need them.
For the left over slots use a webber if in range and a shield transfer to your tanking ship just because you can
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.01.06 16:18:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/01/2009 23:15:06
Originally by: Ghoest
Actually I never said anything flat out wrong
Yes, you did. If I state can A is the only one filled to 100%, can B being filled to 80% does not make my statement "essentially incorrect". Can B is actually showing the opposite, that at least regarding the set of cans A and B, my statement is correct.
I continue with this thread because I care about posting only correct information, or correcting an error if I truly made a mistake. So I will not stand being falsely accused of posting incorrect info.
Oh, and I never use alts outside Sell forums.
No you are wrong essentially. A Phoon fitted for pure damage will compare well to pure missle ships(CNR, Gulum, Raattlesnake) if you are looking at damage against all factions.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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