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Matrix Operator
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.04.16 01:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Haven't seen any specific mention of this in the Dev blogs, but I was wondering if anyone has seen any mention of the Legion getting any love for Inferno.
Its such a gimped ship that it pales in comparison with the other T3 hulls for any of the same task. |
Alexa Coates
The Scope Gallente Federation
92
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Posted - 2012.04.16 01:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
if it isn't mentioned then why would it be. use some common sense. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Rayonar
PILGRIMS Insane Asylum
0
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Posted - 2012.04.16 02:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
They said in the Ship Balancing panel that all Strategics were being looked at. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
671
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Posted - 2012.04.16 02:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
legion is fine. tengu should be adjusted to match the other t3s. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Rayonar
PILGRIMS Insane Asylum
0
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Posted - 2012.04.16 04:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:legion is fine. tengu should be adjusted to match the other t3s.
The Cov Ops and Drone Subsystems would like a word with you. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
180
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Posted - 2012.04.16 04:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rayonar wrote:Bienator II wrote:legion is fine. tengu should be adjusted to match the other t3s. The Cov Ops and Drone Subsystems would like a word with you. Oh and the Neut Subsystem too.
dude...the neut subsytem is the only good thing about the legion.... |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1539
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Posted - 2012.04.16 04:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Rayonar wrote:Bienator II wrote:legion is fine. tengu should be adjusted to match the other t3s. The Cov Ops and Drone Subsystems would like a word with you. Oh and the Neut Subsystem too. dude...the neut subsytem is the only good thing about the legion....
Exactly... Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.04.16 04:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rayonar wrote:Oh and the Neut Subsystem too.
So, you want Legion to be better at neuting than Curse?
But I agree that drone subsystem could be better. |
Goran Konjich
University of Caille Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.04.16 07:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
can someone explain please why is Tengu best T3 out there ? i mean they all 4 should be the same or really close to same, isn't it ?
im asking because im trying to train for proteus.
thank you very much in advance |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1102
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Posted - 2012.04.16 07:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP view the Legion as improperly balanced, compared to the other T3s. Same with the Proteus.
This was part of the ship-balancing panel at fanfest. When they work on it, nobody knows. |
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Rayonar
PILGRIMS Insane Asylum
0
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Posted - 2012.04.16 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Rayonar wrote:Oh and the Neut Subsystem too. So, you want Legion to be better at neuting than Curse? But I agree that drone subsystem could be better.
I would prefer it if it had even a light range bonus. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
673
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Posted - 2012.04.16 15:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Goran Konjich wrote:can someone explain please why is Tengu best T3 out there ? i mean they all 4 should be the same or really close to same, isn't it ?
because of: range, dps, tank, passive fitt option, no obvious weaknesses compared to the other t3s
in other words: once you have a tengu you can do almost everything in game, from lvl4 farming, lvl5 soloing, pvp, exploration, WH, support etc. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1114
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:legion is fine. tengu should be adjusted to match the other t3s.
Legion is not fine and all T3's should match Tengu. You fail to explain why the only balanced T3 would need nerf but since CCP and balance, logic and do things right are unknown words you are probably right and Tengu is about to become another useless bunch of pixels.
@OP -ships should probably be "rebalanced" after Tiers changes aka CCP style, so just keep training projectiles and minmatar ships and you can't go wrong.
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1114
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Posted - 2012.04.16 16:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Goran Konjich wrote:can someone explain please why is Tengu best T3 out there ? i mean they all 4 should be the same or really close to same, isn't it ?
because of: range, dps, tank, passive fitt option, no obvious weaknesses compared to the other t3s in other words: once you have a tengu you can do almost everything in game, from lvl4 farming, lvl5 soloing, pvp, exploration, WH, support etc.
And your problem with the only balanced T3 ship is?-most balanced usually using fits that bring the whole setup for over 2B easily. I was expecting you to rather figure out how all other T3's lack of versatility they're supposed to represent.
If there's some problem with T3's it's not Tengu, except maybe CCP fail to fix ship size modules (100mn AB) but let me get your attention to this simple fact: all T3's can use 100MN AB's.
Then once again if the ship has such versatility in terms of engagement distance it's maybe because once again CCP failed with HAM's and HM's stats?
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
463
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Posted - 2012.04.16 17:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Legion is the absolute #1 money maker in hisec right now hands down.
All these bitching about incursion threads are one thing, but when you add to it a "Buff legion" thread, it really shows how apathetic this community can be.
I AM ******* PISSED OFF THAT EVE WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMMODORE 64. **** THAT **** I QUIT. take all my isk for 1 trit. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1114
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Posted - 2012.04.16 17:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Legion is the absolute #1 money maker in hisec right now hands down.
All these bitching about incursion threads are one thing, but when you add to it a "Buff legion" thread, it really shows how apathetic this community can be.
And how apathetic some people shooting a specific dmg profile rat think Legion is awesome?
It's not the worst for sure, but in versatility terms it's not either the closest to Tengu, this rank is Loki's one and sooner the top one once all matar nerds get Tengu nerf. Hurray, game balance will get another tombstone in that specific day.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
673
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Posted - 2012.04.16 18:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Bienator II wrote:Goran Konjich wrote:can someone explain please why is Tengu best T3 out there ? i mean they all 4 should be the same or really close to same, isn't it ?
because of: range, dps, tank, passive fitt option, no obvious weaknesses compared to the other t3s in other words: once you have a tengu you can do almost everything in game, from lvl4 farming, lvl5 soloing, pvp, exploration, WH, support etc. And your problem with the only balanced T3 ship is?-most balanced usually using fits that bring the whole setup for over 2B easily. I was expecting you to rather figure out how all other T3's lack of versatility they're supposed to represent. If there's some problem with T3's it's not Tengu, except maybe CCP fail to fix ship size modules (100mn AB) but let me get your attention to this simple fact: all T3's can use 100MN AB's. Then once again if the ship has such versatility in terms of engagement distance it's maybe because once again CCP failed with HAM's and HM's stats?
well i didn't say missiles are not a problem. It is not a single attribute it is the combination of several what makes the tengu so popular.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Matrix Operator
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:well i didn't say missiles are not a problem. It is not a single attribute it is the combination of several what makes the tengu so popular.
In a nutsell, its the ability to maneuver wildly, stay at range, and still hit for full damage each shot all simultaneously. No?
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Matrix Operator
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Legion is the absolute #1 money maker in hisec right now hands down.
All these bitching about incursion threads are one thing, but when you add to it a "Buff legion" thread, it really shows how apathetic this community can be.
Isn't that more of a consequence of how Vanguard NCOs have been made, rather than good of the Legion itself. NCOs are basically NPC frigate hoards. If CCP decided to introduce a BS or two into the NCO mix then the Legion productivity drops like a stone.
Doesn't say anything about the status of the Legion when compared to the other T3s. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1539
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: And your problem with the only balanced T3 ship is?-most balanced usually using fits that bring the whole setup for over 2B easily. I was expecting you to rather figure out how all other T3's lack of versatility they're supposed to represent.
If there's some problem with T3's it's not Tengu, except maybe CCP fail to fix ship size modules (100mn AB) but let me get your attention to this simple fact: all T3's can use 100MN AB's.
Then once again if the ship has such versatility in terms of engagement distance it's maybe because once again CCP failed with HAM's and HM's stats?
I'm not sure I understand you properly. You think the Tengu is fine and projectiles are OP?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
266
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Tengu is fine. The other T3s should be adjusted to match the standard it sets.
There.
All fixed up for ya, bru.
The invention of ice-hockey is proof that Canada deserves to rule the world. Eh.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
1263
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Legion is the absolute #1 money maker in hisec right now hands down.
All these bitching about incursion threads are one thing, but when you add to it a "Buff legion" thread, it really shows how apathetic this community can be.
And how apathetic some people shooting a specific dmg profile rat think Legion is awesome?
Incursion Sansha have uniform resists.
And yes - the Tengu is imbalanced.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Tech, which impacts ship performance, and roles. Tech 1 is the reference in ship balancing, while faction ships (navy and pirate variants) are most often plain improvements, tech 2 offer a specialized purpose and tech 3 give opportunities for generalization.
So the Tengu shouldn't outperform the Cerb (lol) whereas it outperforms almost the entire Caldari ship roster above frigs and below caps in their 'specialized roles'.
Of course that's a problem with some others too, like e.g. the Legion being better at being a Sac than the Sac itself etc... You know... morons. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1114
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:So the Tengu shouldn't outperform the Cerb (lol) whereas it outperforms almost the entire Caldari ship roster above frigs and below caps in their 'specialized roles'.
If you can't dps more with a Cerberus witch role is to bring heavy dps I can only see a lack of skills, bad fitting or not enough fitting on it to do better than Tengu.
Do you fit 500M tank Items in your Cerberus? Do you fit faction launchers?
Quote:Of course that's a problem with some others too, like e.g. the Legion being better at being a Sac than the Sac itself etc...
I do agree with you on this one but I actually think the problem it's not T3's being too good but Assault ships being terribly bad designed. Seems most if not all are from another age, like if they were still in beta form while the game just took 10 years in the mouth. Then add obscure and incomprehensible formulas for mechanics that are obviously not working and never did properly (latest example is concord boomerang) plus those awesome bugs brought with the patch to patch the previous bug already patching another previous bug...
Thing is that you can't say assault ships are fine and they don't need a full revamp because then I'll think about the pathetic Deimos that still can't fit meta 250" or faction ones and have a decent tank/mobility.
Why do you really want to nerf something working properly?
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1539
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Posted - 2012.04.16 19:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: If you can't dps more with a Cerberus witch role is to bring heavy dps I can only see a lack of skills, bad fitting or not enough fitting on it to do better than Tengu.
Please show me a 1000 DPS Cerberus. Feel free to use HAM with Rage and 6% hardwirings.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1116
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Will not even waste time on trying because if an officer dead space fit Tengu seems normal a Cerberus on the other hand would look "lol fit". You are EFT warrior enough to know exactly what I meant but you want to play with words, so go ahead I'm done with words games.
I do care on the other hand that my T2 fitted Cerberus does more dps than my T2 fitted Tengu: op success
My Proteus can go above 1k dps but not my Deimos, so is my Proteus also in need of nerf bat?
My Loki does better dps than my vaga, so also needs the nerfbat, right?
Now I'd really like to see that T2 1K Tengu dps fit.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
83
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Bienator II wrote:Tengu is fine. The other T3s should be adjusted to match the standard it sets. There. All fixed up for ya, bru. ^^ THIS. Tech 3 cruisers are supposed to be the masters of versatility. They should be able to perform any role just by rearranging subsystems. The Tengu can do this well. As Lyrrashae said the others need to be "adjusted to match the standard it sets".
The tengu may be slightly overpowered DPS wise but that will get fixed when they rebalance missiles. The problem is missiles never miss the target, and deffender missiles don't work. HAM and HM are the right size to hit everything, since they do not miss anything within range, they make any cruiser class ship with good missile bonuses a great DPS boat for its size.
Look at the other HAM and HM boats in the Caldari fleet. They also seem very over powered compared to their equals from other races. The Drake is the best BC, what weapon systems does it use? A navy Osprey or Caracal Can fly though Level 3 missions crazy fast. I used to run Level 3 missions in a standard Caracal with no problems. How many other standard cruisers can easily run level 3 missions? |
Katalci
Creative Cookie Procuring Veto Corp
51
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:If there's some problem with T3's it's not Tengu, except maybe CCP fail to fix ship size modules (100mn AB) but let me get your attention to this simple fact: all T3's can use 100MN AB's.
The Proteus can't effectively use oversized ABs because it doesn't have the fuel catalyst subsystem.
Lyrrashae wrote:Bienator II wrote:Tengu is fine. The other T3s should be adjusted to match the standard it sets. There. All fixed up for ya, bru. Also this |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1263
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote: If you can't dps more with a Cerberus witch role is to bring heavy dps I can only see a lack of skills, bad fitting or not enough fitting on it to do better than Tengu.
Do you fit 500M tank Items in your Cerberus? Do you fit faction launchers?
Even with faction/T2+rage and all lows full of officer BCUs you wont even get close to a Tengu - as for skills - well - the only thing I'd lack to fly it at all V would be Heavy Missile/HAM Spec to V - but ok - the Cerbs range is a little better.
Quote: I do agree with you on this one but I actually think the problem it's not T3's being too good but Assault ships being terribly bad designed. Seems most if not all are from another age, like if they were still in beta form while the game just took 10 years in the mouth.
Thing is that you can't say assault ships are fine and they don't need a full revamp because then I'll think about the pathetic Deimos that still can't fit meta 250" or faction ones and have a decent tank/mobility.
Why do you really want to nerf something working properly?
Yeah - HACs need some love - however everyone flying a ship above anything else is not a sign of something working properly, it's a sign of something being overpowered, too easily accessible etc... If Tengus make up 60% of the entire T3 population (according to CCP), there's something wrong.
The Tengu not only outclasses its supposedly 'more specialized' T2 Cruiser counterparts (not sure about the Falcon - never flew one as that is against my e-honoure), it also vastly outshines T2 Battlecruisers (ok - bad example - CS could need some love too), and even T2 Battleships (Tengu pretty much replaced Golems as a carebear vessel which used to be really popular a couple of years ago).
Years ago, new pilots rushed for their races BSs to make some money - now they all rush for the Tengu.
You know... morons. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
182
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Posted - 2012.04.16 20:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
wow this thread got derailed quickly... tbh, tengu is not that great. what it has in versatility and strengths is more than countered by the fact that apart from the drake, it's probably the most boring ship in eve to fly ;)
as for buffing the other t3s, people who think that proteus and/or loki are not great ships are delusional.
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Matrix Operator
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.04.16 21:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Perhaps a solution would to give the Legion Assault Optimization Subsystem a Heavy Missile bonus as well, instead of just a Heavy Assault Missile bonus.
Would that balance things at bit? |
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